Quote :

"you gave me a couch and helped move it into my place to boot."

i was raised in a community where we helped folks when they needed help. when we got new stuff, we gave away our old appliances and furniture to folks who needed them. we gave away the surplus from our garden. we gave away fish when we brought home more than we needed. i have no problem helping folks who make an effort to help themselves. i prefer to be the judge of that. the govt isn't very good at it.

10/8/2012 9:25:55 PM

^^Exactly. Flat Tax this bitch.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

10/8/2012 9:26:40 PM

^^ i think a lot of people are like that and dont feel the need for the gov't to decide that

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2012 9:27:04 PM

I don't want the government providing for me. If they provide for me, they own me.

Fuck that.

The purpose of this country was to have a small government, there when the people need it. Not as a cash cow they can lean on.

Like someone else said. I studied in HS. I took out college loans (which I still pay for, and will for a while) and got a good job. It isn't that hard. You know, I lost that good job - yup, got laid the fuck off from IBM. It took me about a month of hard pavement pounding (virtual pavement, but pavement nonetheless) and I got back up and got busy with a new job. What did the government give me? One week's worth of unemployment that I also helped pay for while I was employed.

Look, I get it, deep down, you really really want to do good for people. And I respect that. But not all people you want to do good for are good people. They will take advantage of you and of the system, and not think twice about it.

Riddle me this. Where are you going to get money for your Great Society 2.0 when you've milked the moneymakers dry? Do you want everyone on the same playing field? What incentive would there be for a HS student to excel above all others if he or she is just going to end up another lemming, doing their part for the hive? You could argue that corporate America is a lot like that already, but there are ways out.

You don't want to hear that though b/c you think the only way out is to be a white kid with a silver spoon up his ass.

10/8/2012 9:28:59 PM

Liberals don't believe in charity unless it is forced upon you by the government.

It absolutely cannot be voluntary because then nobody will participate.

Also, you can't think for a second that you might know better how to allocate resources than the government. Liberals are more educated than you and your community know-how counts for precisely dick.

Being a Republican or Conservative you are obviously much more prone to take a dump on an old couch instead of giving it to someone needy. Or better yet, burn it in a power plant.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:29 PM. Reason : -]

10/8/2012 9:29:17 PM

Republicans,

Romney is planning on announcing his commitment to increasing defense spending and will mention that he is considering increased involvement in Syria (even unilateral if necessary).

Are you okay with that, and does it not co flick with conservative ideals?

10/8/2012 9:33:15 PM

No because that goes directly against conservative ideals:

1) Low taxes
2) Reduce gov't spending
3) No wars.

I aint no fox news conservative.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

10/8/2012 9:34:18 PM

Quote :

"^^ i think a lot of people are like that and dont feel the need for the gov't to decide that"

Far more people SAY they are like that, but really aren't.

simonn is far, far, far to the left of me but lets not act like the majority of this country is altruistic and would generously donate to those who, by no choice of their own, need help.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM. Reason : no]

10/8/2012 9:35:00 PM

Will it effect how you vote if Romney announced commitment to defense spending and intervention in Syria?

10/8/2012 9:35:28 PM

^^^pretty spot on.

the words 'democrat' and 'republican' don't mean a whole lot to me anymore.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:36 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2012 9:36:00 PM

I don't vote because voting is literally a waste of gas. If you think presidents aren't in serfdom to their contributors (which are all the same entities) then



I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

10/8/2012 9:36:10 PM

libertarians calling me clueless is so absurd.

look up any quality of life metric you want and how countries that are marked highly conduct their government. they're not libertarians.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:38 PM. Reason : i didn't check before i posted so i may eat shit for this one... but i don't think i will.]

10/8/2012 9:36:54 PM

Quote :

"Like someone else said. I studied in HS. I took out college loans (which I still pay for, and will for a while) and got a good job. It isn't that hard."

Just out of curiosity, do you believe that everyone in this country has ease of access to opportunity?

10/8/2012 9:38:07 PM

^^^^^^ regardless, it should not be the government's decision by giving mass handouts and having people constantly game the system

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:39 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2012 9:38:15 PM

If people would be altruistic and fix the problems themselves, then why aren't they already? If that would happen it would have already happened.



Are you okay with Romney increasing defense spending and putting us in Syria unilaterally?

10/8/2012 9:38:42 PM

Tell me how they don't have access. If they go to HS, they have the same exact access I did. And how many more government programs do you think would be necessary to give them the access you don't think they have?

^And nobody is going to answer your silly question, so just stop it.



[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:41 PM. Reason : adsfa]

10/8/2012 9:39:53 PM

Defense spending and Syria are NOT silly questions

They are hugely important questions.

10/8/2012 9:41:55 PM

there's something to be said about poverty limiting ease of access to opportunities and lower income people having somewhat of a glass ceiling to better opportunities. however, the thought of taking from the rich or upper middle class to give to those unwilling to work for it is absurd.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:43 PM. Reason : . ]

10/8/2012 9:42:59 PM

Republicans,

Romney is planning on announcing his commitment to increasing defense spending and will mention that he is considering increased involvement in Syria (even unilateral if necessary).

Does that impact your voting?

10/8/2012 9:43:11 PM

Quote :

"Tell me how they don't have access. If they go to HS, they have the same exact access I did. And how many more government programs do you think would be necessary to give them the access you don't think they have?"

More? None. But I do see some utility in welfare, food stamps, etc...

If you think that a child living in a tenement in an urban setting with a single mother who is working three jobs so they can eat bread every night living in a crime-ridden city has the same ease of opportunity as someone like me who grew up in an upper middle class suburb with a two parent family who never ever had money problems I don't know what to say.

Quote :

" Romney is planning on announcing his commitment to increasing defense spending and will mention that he is considering increased involvement in Syria (even unilateral if necessary). Does that impact your voting?"

That isn't a huge issue personally to me, but I can't fathom how anyone can think that is a good use of their money over something like what is being argued above..

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:45 PM. Reason : x]

10/8/2012 9:43:22 PM

My belief is to not meddle over there. At all. I didnt agree with Bush when he did it. I didn't agree with Obama when he did it, and I wouldn't agree with Romney if he did it. But just as you voted for Obama, and would vote for him again I'm sure - regardless of his continued war in Afghanistan, I would still vote for Romney.

10/8/2012 9:44:28 PM

Your anecdotal description of your life has no bearing on political policy.

You could make up any anecdote to fit any argument.

No intelligent person could look at the studies and statistics, and read about the recent history (past few decades) and seriously wonder "but how is access for some demographics impeded?"

A better question is asking how it's NOT impeded, because this is what all the studies/statistics say.

10/8/2012 9:44:32 PM

^^^^ if i were to say "not at all" would you shut the fuck up about it?

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:44 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:46 PM. Reason : i assume you have no problem with obama's continued involvement in afghanistan]

10/8/2012 9:44:35 PM

I didn't and won't vote for Obama, do t make assumptions


I just think defense spending is a critical issue. We are spending more now in today's dollars than we did when we literally out spent a country to death?

Why can we not acknowledge that we are spending too much on defense and it is endangering the country?

10/8/2012 9:46:37 PM

My parents had plenty of money problems.

You said access. Not encouragement. That tenement - does it have a school bus stop? Yes. Does that school bus take them to a school? Yes. Is it a shitty school? Most positively, yes, and that is where state government needs to come in. Help lift up schools - give good teachers incentives for working in shitholes. Provide some decent technology for inner-city kids to learn on. I'm all for that. My HS wasn't top notch.

But if the federal gov't becomes and enabler, then that is all they'll ever be to a lot of people.

10/8/2012 9:49:16 PM

If we stopped spending so much on defense, what we spend on other entitlement wouldn't even matter.

Why don't we start by decreasing defense spending? Why are we letting candidates propose additional defense spending?

10/8/2012 9:50:34 PM

Quote :

"look up any quality of life metric you want and how countries that are marked highly conduct their government. they're not libertarians."

maybe they've never known any different

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 9:52 PM. Reason : take that fucker for a ride on a jet ski and maybe he'll want some tax money back so he can buy one]

10/8/2012 9:50:59 PM

increasing defense spending helps african american folks like EMCE have jobs

10/8/2012 9:51:47 PM

Quote :

"take that fucker for a ride on a jet ski and maybe he'll want some tax money back so he can buy one"

i just can't respond to you if your attitude is "fuck healthcare. jetskis."

10/8/2012 10:15:13 PM

Just a little longer till we spend ourselves to death with military spending and then we can all just loot jet skis after society collapses

10/8/2012 10:17:14 PM

look, man, you're the one who made the soap box thread in chit chat. expect chit chat responses.

10/8/2012 11:08:21 PM

i ain't mad atcha, although it's not like the soap box is any different.

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 12:06 AM. Reason : and it's not like i doubt for a second that that's how you really feel.]

10/9/2012 12:05:43 AM

Quote :

"maybe they've never known any different"

How disconnected from reality do you think they are? Europeans get news about America, including how hard it is for the typical American under our economic system, all the time, largely because of the military and economic hegemony of our military-industrial-Congressional complex.

10/9/2012 12:12:29 AM

Quote :

"My belief is to not meddle over there. At all. I didnt agree with Bush when he did it. I didn't agree with Obama when he did it, and I wouldn't agree with Romney if he did it. But just as you voted for Obama, and would vote for him again I'm sure - regardless of his continued war in Afghanistan, I would still vote for Romney."

Translation:

I'm opposed to 'Big Government' if it helps people, but I am ok with 'Big Government' if it kills people.

10/9/2012 3:21:44 PM

^

10/9/2012 3:24:18 PM

Quit reading this thread halfway through Page 2 when it devolved into I don't want to pay for a poor family to help them out but others can if they want to. That's called freedom (so if the conversation took a step back towards the rational, then congrats TWW)

You guys who are so anti-welfare & socialism & solidly in favor of free markets realize that the people who get the most government handouts are farmers & corporations, right? It's not the black moms with 8 kids that you guys love to harp on. It's the multi-millionaire CEOs taking millions in subsidies if it means making even an extra dollar in profit



Pic related

It's what a real welfare queen in the US looks like

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM. Reason : for the record I'm fine w/ getting rid of welfare as long as the first casualty is corporate welfare]

10/9/2012 3:40:59 PM

^which is why people push for a limited govt. So they cant just start dishing out cash to their buddies. And letting one keep more of what they earn is not welfare, btw. Blowing, errr investing, billions on campaign contributors to create a green energy business is though.

10/9/2012 5:10:21 PM

no, he is talking about actual contributions to companies. not letting them keep what they earn. actual contributions.

10/9/2012 5:12:47 PM

why contribute when you can just take

right dtownral?

10/9/2012 5:13:22 PM

that was a joke.

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 6:20 PM. Reason : not gonna fuel this fire.]

10/9/2012 6:20:13 PM