if they successfully unionize they'll be asking for more than just $15/hr

next thing you know the US Govt will be bailing out the Fast Food industry

8/29/2013 2:15:40 PM

but they're (literally) too big to fail

8/29/2013 2:18:26 PM

the guy from supersize me and Michael Moore should get together and do a documentary

and it will be one of those shows where the people are speaking English, yet still need subtitles

8/29/2013 2:27:56 PM

i always wondered why fast food tastes so bad in the us but then out of the country tastes great and looks like the commercials. its because the people are actually making money.

8/29/2013 2:33:36 PM

You can get the same more-expensive fast food from higher paid workers here in th US too, that part of the industry is called "fast-casual" and its booming

8/29/2013 2:50:48 PM

i know that but i mean kfc tastes like shit here and is amazing in thailand because the people working there are doing pretty good for themselves.

8/29/2013 2:52:40 PM

move to thailand then Earl, I bet you'd love it there

8/29/2013 2:54:34 PM

Why would anyone visit a foreign country and eat American fast food? That's like visiting a pub in Germany and ordering a Bud Light.

8/29/2013 2:54:42 PM

If we all chip in we can make sure those people earning minimum wage have enough to eat, a place to live, and clothes on their backs.

Oh wait, that's what we're already doing for all these people by way of taxes and welfare programs. Why do we want to subsidize McDonalds' profits again? Better McDonalds pay them than you and I. They've raised their prices many times in the last decade. A few cents added to the price of a combo meal isn't going to influence their fast food addicted customers to start cooking at home.

I'm not agreeing that $15/hour is the magic number, but I think it's worth discussing.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:07 PM. Reason : l]

8/29/2013 3:03:26 PM

it is pretty great that those who are most vocal against government welfare are also the most vocal against raising the minimum wage

8/29/2013 3:05:20 PM

Why not keep the pay the way it is, but institute some sort of bonus structure? Something similar to that of commissions in sales. I think bonuses for order accuracy would not only give these employees an incentive to EARN extra money, but it would lead to a better experience for the customers. Win-Win.

8/29/2013 3:08:44 PM

Quote :

"i always wondered why fast food tastes so bad in the us but then out of the country tastes great and looks like the commercials."

the food in the commericals isn't real food.

8/29/2013 3:09:20 PM

^^ That would be great if the employers chose to do it, but "we" can't do anything to enact such a pay structure.

Furthermore, most companies are going away from any type of bonus/commission based pay. When I was in high school and college I had friends who did very well working at Circuit City, Best Buy, and Sears due to their sales commissions. Neither Best Buy nor Sears pays their employees anything more than a basic hourly wage these days as far as I know.

You're about the same age as I am and I'm sure you can think of similar examples. Profits go up (well maybe not with Circuit City, ha ha) and the customers get the shit end of the deal. And they wonder why people just buy online these days.

"Professionalism" in these types of jobs is nearly gone and you can thank the basic wage model for it. There's just no incentive to be a better or more knowledgeable employee under these programs.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:15 PM. Reason : l]

8/29/2013 3:14:51 PM

Why not fire them all and replace them with another batch of equally unskilled laborers? That's what I would do once they had missed enough work.

Unions for unskilled labor are a sad joke. You have no leverage with which to negotiate. Your only possible tool would be if you were able to get a huge number of people unionized at once, but I suspect even with that they could all be replaced very quickly. The fact that fast food has an incredibly high turnover rate and the "skill set" can be taught in a matter of days makes it completely unfeasible to unionize or negotiate a wage above the minimum wage.

From a market standpoint these people are probably being overpaid right now.

If they somehow do manage to ram a mandated pay increase through in certain areas you will almost certainly see even more automation and the addition of a couple more salaried positions to almost eliminate hourly workers.

8/29/2013 3:14:54 PM

^^ Yeah, I worked at Circuit City in college (in the warehouse) and the sales reps made commissions. All of the guys in the TV department were in their 40's and drove luxury cars, so I assume they were doing quite well. It was the same at Best Buy for a while.

Now you walk in the video department at Best Buy and not only walk around for 20 minutes waiting to get help, but the 19 year old kid that helps you knows nothing about the products.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 3:18:16 PM

Quote :

"Why would anyone visit a foreign country and eat American fast food? That's like visiting a pub in Germany and ordering a Bud Light"

No its not. foreign countries is actually the only time i eat american fast food. you'd be surprise how appealing it seems once you're away for several months.

After several weeks of thai food the linen of your esophagus gets so worn away that you have to give it a break.

8/29/2013 3:18:55 PM

^^Access to information and technology killed circuit city and best buy. When consumer reports and amazon are available on your phone there is no reason to ask some guy at best buy what you should get and even less reason to listen to him.

Eventually, if legislatures will stop protecting them, car dealerships will mostly go away too.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]

8/29/2013 3:20:35 PM

Quote :

"^^ Yeah, I worked at Circuit City in college (in the warehouse) and the sales reps made commissions. All of the guys in the TV department were in their 40's and drove luxury cars, so I assume they were doing quite well. It was the same at Best Buy for a while. Now you walk in the video department at Best Buy and not only walk around for 20 minutes waiting to get help, but the 19 year old kid that helps you knows nothing about the products."

Yep...I knew one guy who made $6.5k in one month (December of course) selling car audio at Circuit City with a full time course load. He was extremely knowledgeable about his products, very well spoken, very professional, and willing to absolutely bust his ass for that check. At minimum wage they're basically paying people to show up and kind of know where the products are on the shelves.

Oh yeah, and those were 1998 dollars which, needless to say, went a lot further than 2013 dollars.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:24 PM. Reason : l]

8/29/2013 3:21:42 PM

Yeah, pretty much all I use Best Buy reps for is when I need them to pull an item for me. That being said, I haven't been to a Best Buy in years.

8/29/2013 3:24:22 PM

I'm not sure best buy employees make commission. at least they didn't several years ago.

also -

Quote :

"When consumer reports and amazon are available on your phone there is no reason to ask some guy at best buy what you should get and even less reason to listen to him."

this is what i do. i do all my research online and read buyer reviews before i decide upon a new TV or whatnot. by the time i walk into the store i already know what i want and that they already have it in stock. i never let anyone "sell me anything".

8/29/2013 3:24:40 PM

Quote :

"it is pretty great that those who are most vocal against government welfare are also the most vocal against raising the minimum wage"

i think most people would call my opinions about welfare to be extremely liberal, i'd bet many would say socialist, and i think that there should no minimum wage at all

8/29/2013 3:25:11 PM

^^ they don't, that's our point

8/29/2013 3:26:52 PM

Commission based sales positions are one of those things that are just going away based on changing economic conditions. It's sort of like when being a farrier was no longer a viable job.

8/29/2013 3:28:25 PM

Commission based jobs aren't going away, at least outside of the Retail environment. Salary + Commission jobs are definitely a lot fewer and far between then they used to be though, I can tell you that for sure. I can tell you 2 companies that I worked for where I earned $35k base + commissions that are 100% commissions now.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:32 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 3:30:59 PM

Yeah, there will still be some, but they will gradually diminish as direct to consumer sales become more and more the way that things are purchased. You'll still have commission type sales positions within the realm of corporate sales and the like, but in retail, they will be incredibly limited, likely to top end and very specialized environments.

8/29/2013 3:33:51 PM

What I noticed when I was in the retail environment was that a lot of companies didn't do away with commissions, they just continuously made them harder and harder to attain. For example, this month if you sell 10 you get commission. Next month, guess what, now it's 12. I lost a lot of really good sales reps due to that "dangling the carrot" culture. That company is no longer in business, btw.

8/29/2013 3:39:34 PM

I am about as fiscally conservative as it gets but some of these companies who are making profits in the hundreds of millions of dollars could definitely stand to give back to their employees in regards to a more respectable living wage.

With that being said, there is no way any unskilled fast food laborer should ever earn anywhere close to $15/hr.

8/29/2013 3:40:06 PM

It's a good way of winnowing down your sales force and keeping down payroll expense.

However, if you really rely on your sales force to drive your top line it's a dangerous game to play.

8/29/2013 3:41:40 PM

Quote :

"I am about as fiscally conservative as it gets but some of these companies who are making profits in the hundreds of millions of dollars could definitely stand to give back to their employees in regards to a more respectable living wage. "

The job of a corporation is to give back to shareholders, not employees. That's the difference between a corporation and a cooperative. It's ultimately up to shareholders what kind of morality they want in the company they own and what level of profitability is acceptable. You see examples of this all the time with different companies. Some pay far above industry standard wages, some donate a portion of all profits to charity, some pay as little as possible and try to maximize shareholder return via higher dividends.

As consumers we also have the power to make choices in how we spend our money, and if how a company treats and pays employees is important then you need to make spending choices accordingly.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:45 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]

8/29/2013 3:45:02 PM

You are explaining the rules of the game to people who think the rules should change.

Most shareholders are so far removed from the companies that they own stock in (anyone know what % of the overall market is owned by various funds? Genuinely curious here) that they don't know or care how their money is being made as long as it is.

8/29/2013 3:51:46 PM

Quote :

"As consumers we also have the power to make choices in how we spend our money, and if how a company treats and pays employees is important then you need to make spending choices accordingly."

a lot of the customers of fast food places buy off the $1 menu because they don't have enough money to choose to spend their money elsewhere

(i've hardly ever eat fast food, and haven't since i was in college, but it apparently hasn't made a difference)

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ]

8/29/2013 3:53:35 PM

yeah the concept of hands-off shareholders should not even exist

8/29/2013 3:55:43 PM

Quote :

"This. And also a 1200 sq ft house cost $700k. Just look at California. "

That's because there's shit to look at Tulsa. A house near the beach in my neighborhood goes for about $800 - 900K for 900 sqft. It's not inflation--it's supply and demand.

8/29/2013 3:55:54 PM

Quote :

"Is it "shitting on people" to believe that unskilled fast food empoloyees shouldn't be guaranteed $15/hr?"

Exactly! They don't deserve to be paid as much as a skilled worker. These aren't the type of jobs you are supposed to make a career out of. They are for students and married couples looking for a little extra cash.

8/29/2013 3:56:13 PM

pay them $15/hr, and then process them into delicious patties

id eat a McPoorperson

8/29/2013 4:02:55 PM

^^

Skilled workers get paid an order of magnitude more than $15/hr. I even know manual laborers who make $20/hr. If any skilled worker is making $15/hr for anything he's being shit on, that's all shit on.

The reason everyone thinks $15/hr is a lot is the constant PR campaign: "The poor have refrigerators and iPhones and drink Cristal"

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 4:03 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 4:02:58 PM

How would you all propose changing the rules of the game?

Not to be all high and mighty, but I actually do vote on stuff when there are shareholder meetings I'm eligible to vote in. I've contacted companies and let them know how their behavior makes me feel as either a shareholder or as a consumer.

Also, the concept of a food desert is largely overblown, IMO.

8/29/2013 4:02:58 PM

making fast food more expensive is racist

8/29/2013 4:04:10 PM

You have to be invested at least 20 hours per week to be a shareholder of a company. Problem solved.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 4:05 PM. Reason : everyone else pays some outrageous 65% tax on earnings. ]

8/29/2013 4:04:59 PM

why dont you shut the fuck up? pretending to sound smart or serious doesnt suit you

8/29/2013 4:11:28 PM

So you're suggesting that you should only be allowed to purchase shares of the company paying you? Any other holdings you have should be taxed at a ridiculous rate. That strikes me as a being a great way destroy growth and eliminate venture capital.

8/29/2013 4:11:36 PM

Investment doesn't have to involve running the company.

8/29/2013 4:17:52 PM

Good luck finding anyone who will hand you money, no strings attached and tell you to do as you will.

8/29/2013 4:20:57 PM

to me it sounds like a conflict of interest to me

8/29/2013 4:23:42 PM

Just hit the gas station near my house and there's a brand new McDonald's (just opened a couple months ago) next door to it. It appeared to be fully staffed, and no one is in the parking lot holding signs. I guess the country McDonald's folks are happy with their wages.........or more likely, thankful they have a job.

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 4:25 PM. Reason : a]

8/29/2013 4:25:20 PM

^^^You mean like a credit union?

[Edited on August 29, 2013 at 4:26 PM. Reason : boos from the crowd]

8/29/2013 4:25:39 PM

I think you'll find that interest due on a loan is actually something of a "string."

How do you feel about corporate bonds?

8/29/2013 4:28:06 PM

That term is used so loosely and I don't like the term because it uses the word corporate but I'm undecided on private bonds.

8/29/2013 4:32:20 PM

Lol they must be out of their damn mind

15 dollars an hour if they make asst mgr I could see

8/29/2013 4:34:31 PM

$15/hour I get for Chick-fil-A or Arby's. But Burger King and Taco Bell? No deal.

8/29/2013 4:37:20 PM