Nobody wants to be the second guy to get run over with a SUV either

You'd think

10/6/2013 1:56:45 PM

I think you live in la la land.

10/6/2013 1:59:00 PM

the car with slashed tires riding on the rims and stuck in traffic wasn't much risk to run anyone over when they cornered it and dragged him out of the car.

10/6/2013 2:05:08 PM

the gun scenario has been discussed in the garage:

Quote :

""Once they got stuck in traffic it was game on. The guy putting a helmet through my window would have received a bullet.""

Quote :

""Okay, I am neither a proponent or opponent of stricter gun laws, but I've seen tons of people (on various sites) respond to this story with something along the lines of "just another example of why the RR driver should have been able to carry a concealed gun." Can someone please explain how that would have helped the situation at all? It seems to me that if he had a gun and had shot at the bikers at any point, than any scenario that followed would have been worse than what actually occurred. A few of the possible fact patterns if the RR driver had a gun are: 1) the bikers have guns and shoot back, killing him and his family 2) he kills some bikers, gets charged with manslaughter, has to go through the court system to explain why it was all in self defense 3) shots are fired that hit other drivers on the road that aren't involved in the incident, at least damaging their vehicles if not their persons 4) If the bikers don't have guns, I still don't see them completely backing down if they were shot at. There were a crapload of them. They could have started bashing in the back window. Then what is he gonna do? Shoot at them over his child that was in the back seat? That doesn't seem like it would end well either. Again, I don't fall on either side of the gun debate, but I don't get how him having a gun would have helped this situation. There is one possible way things could have ended where having a gun would have helped him (he fires, and scares the bikers away). To me, in this situation, that outcome seems EXTREMELY unlikely. If he had had a gun, my money is on one of the many, many more way, way worse outcomes, most of which involve death. I'm not so keen on needless death. Especially when it could be the death of an innocent child. Just sayin. Today 5:55pm""

Quote :

"Yeah even though some people are all gung ho about shooting them all up, it is a complete non-issue if you ask me. You can point a gun at 2-3 people, but not at 20-30 people. What would happen after you shoot the one breaking your window? They will all attack from different angles at the same time so you will shoot a few more of them and then go down in the end anyway, AND probably end up dead from a dozen people beating you up at the same time. Plus you would have killed a few people, I guess justifiably, but killing a few people is sure to haunt you for a while, in case you survive. (This is all assuming they aren't loaded, because if some of them are, after you shoot the first one, you can say goodbye to your life and most probably your family's life)"

10/6/2013 2:46:05 PM

too much video game logic about mob mentality going on in here. The loud percussion of a gunshot will make people start rethinking the situation. Their advantage in numbers quickly becomes outweighed by the reality that a few of them are going to die in the process. They can overtake the driver with numbers easily when he's unarmed, but no one actually wants to make the move to the drivers side door or into the vehicle where they are easy targets.

It's also a bunch of hooligans in NYC where guns are illegal. These weren't Hells Angels and Pagans; these riders were most likely unarmed. The armed riders were probably the undercover/off-duty cops involved in this bullshit, and they would have known not to get involved because they would be facing murder charges if they fired back.

People treat these bikers like they're the zombie levels on call-of-duty games. They aren't so hellbent on attacking a driver that they're willing to get shot in the process.

10/6/2013 3:23:09 PM

^ pretty much what i was going to say. people tend to run in the opposite direction of gunfire, its not pleasant to be shot at

10/6/2013 8:01:59 PM

These guys attacked a car on the west side highway. Do you understand how crazy this is?

I doubt pulling a gun would have ended well for the driver.

[Edited on October 7, 2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason : Fun]

10/6/2013 11:47:38 PM

http://gawker.com/six-cops-among-motorcycle-group-that-attacked-suv-two-1441934073

here's the guy that [allegedly] smashed the window:

10/7/2013 12:41:19 PM

There is no allegedly about it. They are not denying it, I meant the whole world has seen it by now what they did.

10/7/2013 12:54:31 PM

cops are not obligated to protect you, they are only trying to make a case about whatever they are working on, and that's exactly what they did

10/7/2013 12:56:05 PM

I mean we all saw *someone* do it, allegedly because I'm not positive this is the exact dude who did the smashing, and I don't care to confirm.

10/7/2013 12:56:17 PM

He also turned himself on, and that means he must have told the cops what role he played.

10/7/2013 2:04:42 PM

Quote :

"TURNED HIMSELF ON"

10/7/2013 2:32:14 PM

they were going after the wife too, one bystander saved the couple:
http://jalopnik.com/this-one-man-stopped-the-biker-beating-of-range-rover-d-1442010788

10/7/2013 2:39:25 PM

I agree that pulling a gun in a situation like this would likely end badly. I wouldn't do it with other people in the car's lives at stake, but there is a lot of truth to this:

Quote :

"The loud percussion of a gunshot will make people start rethinking the situation. Their advantage in numbers quickly becomes outweighed by the reality that a few of them are going to die in the process."

I've seen instances where a small mob bent on attacking a single person were broken up by a show of force by a few people who were willing to fight back. Most people in a mob are just going along with it because they feel compelled to and want to get in a cheap shot or two without experiencing any danger to their own well being. Those people will scatter like flies when they see that they might be on the receiving end of some of the damage. You'd be surprised how quickly 15 on 1 can turn into 3 on 3 if just a couple of the right people join in. It's the ones who are left after the scatter that you have to worry about.

10/7/2013 2:50:36 PM

Quote :

"here's the guy that [allegedly] smashed the window:"

Looks like lessons were learned.

10/7/2013 3:29:29 PM

^^I've watched a potential 10 on 1 fight at a keg party turn into 1 on zero with a single punch to the neck of the loudmouthed ringleader. The guy who threw the punch was a behemoth, and no one wanted to jump in after realizing their numbers weren't going to keep a couple of them from getting fucked up.

Korean store owners also did an effective job of defending their stores against hordes of angry mobs during the LA riots by taking up arms. Gunshots tend to make people rethink their priorities.

10/7/2013 6:56:54 PM

in a store, there is only one attack angle/point for the bad guys.

in the situation at hand, there are 360 degrees of approach, and many approach paths from where the wife and daughter were. what was he going to do as a nervous non-shooter (if he was armed), shoot over his daughter's head and in front of his wife's face?

also:

Quote :

"that's not what happens when a mass murderer is on the loose."

is not the same situation.

one baddie w/gun defending himself from (or attacking) 30 good guys
!=
one good guy defending himself from 30 baddies

of course when a bad guy pulls a gun out in public, normal civilians will run. but when 30 bad guys are after one good guy and he pulls a gun out, do you think the bad guys will all just give up and run away? they wanted to extract vengeance, they wouldn't just disappear if one of them got shot. especially considering the 360 degrees of attack window available to the bad guys.

the point is, no one knows how they would have reacted if he had pulled a gun.

but more people are guessing that it would have turned very ugly, for the RR guy and his family, rather than turn out in his favor. again, it is impossible to know.

also, how many bullets in a gun? after he shoots one, you bang on his car while crouching down and make him fire a few more nervous shots and he runs out of ammo.

THEN WHAT?


[Edited on October 7, 2013 at 7:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/7/2013 7:03:56 PM

Woah woah woah, lettuce not jump to conclusions here. I'd like to revisit the possibility that the bikers were innocent

10/7/2013 7:06:15 PM

Quote :

"in a store, there is only one attack angle/point for the bad guys."

they defended the stores from outside while the stores were closed. They had to defend against jackass arsonists, not just looters.

10/7/2013 7:10:35 PM

whaddya know ... this isnt the first time they have assaulted someone on the road with their bullshit mob

1:20 mark in the video

[Edited on October 7, 2013 at 8:12 PM. Reason : sdf]

10/7/2013 8:12:33 PM

10/7/2013 8:16:20 PM

^ That is the best use of that image that I've seen in years.

10/7/2013 8:37:04 PM

In years? Hasn't that thing been around for nearly closing in on a decade?

10/7/2013 10:05:20 PM

2007

10/7/2013 10:13:03 PM

Quote :

"In years? Hasn't that thing been around for nearly closing in on a decade?"

Yes, but its about it being very relevantly posted here... I chuckled.

10/7/2013 10:24:54 PM

Quote :

"cops are not obligated to protect you, they are only trying to make a case about whatever they are working on, and that's exactly what they did"

They swore to "protect and serve", ya know?

10/7/2013 10:48:07 PM

3 pages in, and no jokes about crippled rap artists?

No jokes about his potential rap names? Lil' Cripply? Trainin'weelz? Nothin?

No "picture me rollin" references?

No "who shot ya ran you over? jokes?

No, "Is he, is he, is he dead?" questions?

No references to the SUV hooking a left on 2-1 and Lewis?

No questions about whether or not the biker will be "movin' on up in the world like in elevators?"

No asking whether or not "it was a good day?"

How am I supposed to keep checking in on this webpage if you guys can't even put forth minimal effort to go for the low hanging fruit?

God damnit. Fast forward through the gun debate and entertain me.

10/8/2013 1:15:20 AM

10/8/2013 1:17:58 AM

Quote :

"They swore to "protect and serve", ya know?"

that's ceremonial, it doesn't mean anything. The Supreme Court has ruled that cops have no obligation to protect you.

10/8/2013 7:56:32 AM

I like how a dude with a manila folder in his hand managed to chase the gang off, and people are arguing whether someone with a gun would be able to chase the gang off.

10/8/2013 9:27:07 AM

ok, guns solve everything, can we move on?

10/8/2013 9:32:56 AM

at first glance i thought that was Jon Taffer defending the driver

10/8/2013 9:35:41 AM

http://gawker.com/nypd-biker-reportedly-attacked-suv-4th-suspect-taken-i-1442383413

The undercover NYPD narcotics officer involved in last week's violent SUV attack was one of several bikers caught on video punching and pounding the outside of Alexian Lien's Range Rover, according to a report in the New York Post.

The officer, a seven-year-veteran of the NYPD, initially told investigators he didn't intervene because he arrived after the beating was almost over, but the Post's “disgusted” sources said an unreleased video showed otherwise.

The NYPD's Internal Affairs unit hopes the officer will be held responsible for the attack, though last week's decision by the District Attorney to drop charges against Allen Edwards, who was also seen punching Lien's window, might prevent formal charges from being filed. However, the officer will likely face internal discipline; he's already been placed on modified duty, which required him to turn in his gun and badge.

[Edited on October 8, 2013 at 10:24 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2013 10:22:22 AM

Quote :

"that's ceremonial, it doesn't mean anything. The Supreme Court has ruled that cops have no obligation to protect you."

So is our Constitution, but people get all bent out of shape when their "constitutional rights" are violated, even if existing legislation says otherwise and Supreme Court upheld it.

Quote :

"I like how a dude with a manila folder in his hand managed to chase the gang off, and people are arguing whether someone with a gun would be able to chase the gang off."

I like how a dude with a manila folder was able to diffuse the whole situation without any need for a gun, when the gun nuts in this and other threads on this topic are advocating for dropping bodies and making the whole situation much worse.

10/8/2013 11:16:10 AM

^yeah, the dude in the manilla folder didn't "chase them off", he just convinced them to stop beating him. the gang didn't leave because the dude with the manila folder scared them.

10/8/2013 11:24:48 AM

Or maybe, inside of the manila folder, was something that held great power.....

The name and phone number of everyone's mother.

10/8/2013 11:27:58 AM

Quote :

"So is our Constitution"

you think our constitution is only ceremonial

um...

NO

10/8/2013 11:30:17 AM

Our constitution a set of principles upon which congress issues legislature which we then have to follow. So it is not any less ceremonial than the police pledge, which is a set of principles upon which standard police procedures are then written for cops to follow.

You don't break an existing law (owning a certain types of weapons, for example) and then claim in court that your Constitutional rights have been violated, unless you want to fight it in Supreme Court.

Same here, if they were to intervene, maybe they would be wrong from the procedural point of view, but they would have been right in their purpose and maybe could have challenged the procedures.

10/8/2013 11:44:42 AM

yes it is, very different

the police have no obligation to any individuals to protect them, the Supreme Court made that very clear.

10/8/2013 11:48:31 AM

The Sand People are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers.

10/8/2013 12:01:30 PM

Quote :

"the police have no obligation to any individuals to protect them, the Supreme Court made that very clear"

I understand that, but people fight for what they feel is their Constitutional right all the time, even if it is currently not what the Supreme Court has decided. Eventually, some rulings are reversed, or new laws are issued. I just wish these police officers had the same worldview about their purpose in our society. Maybe there will be a ripple effect and change in police procedures based on cases like these.


And, separately from the above, it now appears that one of the officers may have actually participated in the violence. Now that's just fucked up.

10/8/2013 12:13:03 PM

turns out the undercover cop that didnt come forward was actually one of the ones beating on the SUV in a "violent" manner.

and they wonder why people hate cops these days.

10/8/2013 4:14:49 PM

watch him get away with it!

10/8/2013 4:24:39 PM

^ so THAT'S why they dropped the charges on the other guy that was smashing windows, so they could drop the charges on the cop and claim fairness

[Edited on October 8, 2013 at 4:47 PM. Reason : s]

10/8/2013 4:46:49 PM

From the comments section of one of the sites reporting this:

Quote :

"Please read the LONG VERSION of the biker's record (courtesy of the Boston Herald): BOSTON HERALD - The Lawrence motor­cyclist struck and paralyzed as a desperate SUV driver tried to escape the rage of other bikers in New York on Sunday has a six-page criminal record that began at age 12 with a negligent driving charge and includes jail time for drugs, guns, resisting arrest and other convictions, according to court records.Edwin Mieses, 32, never got a driver’s license in the Bay State, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said, but he was frequently nabbed behind the wheel, and even sentenced to jail for driving without a license, court records show. Mieses has a pending case out of Lawrence District Court for driving suspended, subsequent offense, said Carrie Kimball Monihan, spokeswoman for the Essex County District Attorney’s Office. Mieses also has 15 guilty findings for criminal offenses including distribution of cocaine, possession of a firearm without a permit, knowingly receiving stolen property, resisting arrest and several motor vehicle violations, court records show.Mieses was sentenced to jail in 2004 for distribution of cocaine, in 2001 for operating without a license, in 2000 for possession of a firearm, and in 1999 for possession of marijuana, receiving stolen property, destruction of property and attaching plates, according to court records. (Boston Herald)"

I haven't checked it on the Boston Herald site, but if true, all those claims by his parents and uncle of him being a good person, a good father, and that he is a Good Samaritan, they all go down the drain. Not that whatever his parents and uncle were saying ever sounded plausible, but this just seals it.

10/8/2013 7:52:01 PM

More fucking lies from Mieses family. Now they have been contradicted by Cruz, the brake checker!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/christopher-cruz-biker-charged-suv-attack-responsible/story?id=20492179

Quote :

""I was looking over my shoulder to see where my friends were," he said. "I wanted them to pull in front so I could follow them. I didn't brake but when I looked over my shoulder, my hand came off the throttle a little, but the driver didn't slow down at all and bumped me." Cruz told ABC News' Harris that both he and Lien stopped and he approached Lien for an explanation. "He looked straight ahead and never made eye contact with me," Cruz said. "So I just went back to my bike and when I was getting on he took off.""

Wait, what's that? Aren't Mieses parents and uncle saying that he was helping a fallen biker (Cruz) get up? But Cruz is saying that he casually walked to the RR and walked back to his bike. Which means he hadn't fallen off the bike.

Motherfucking liars, Mieses family

10/8/2013 8:31:32 PM

Saw an interview with one of the bikers today. He was basically saying the RR driver bumped one of the bikers earlier, so Cruz was simply trying to slow him down so they could talk. That's when the RR driver bumped Cruz.


Obvious horseshit.

10/8/2013 8:56:10 PM

And NYPD arrested a cop in connection with this attack

10/8/2013 9:06:41 PM

Any chance this goes to court? The court of public opinion is getting a little outta hand

10/8/2013 9:16:23 PM