Quote :

" you asked for a situation where someone saves money, i provided them "

I immediately proved that wrong based on my situation and asked you to show me numbers. Please do it.

^ you just need to talk to dtraleigh

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason : A]

10/10/2013 12:20:21 PM

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason : C]

10/10/2013 12:22:59 PM

because the premium they are using in that calculator comes out to less than 9.5% of your income, in the 300%-400% the cap is 9.5%. If the actual premium quote is higher than what they estimate in the calculator, they would see a subsidy.

Up to 133%: 2.0% 2.0%
133% - 150%: 3.0% 4.0%
150% - 200%: 4.0% 6.3%
200% - 250%: 6.3% 8.05%
250% - 300%: 8.05% 9.5%
300% - 400%: 9.5% 9.5%

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:26 PM. Reason : ^^ i have no idea what you are asking. you just want an anecdote of someone saving money?]

10/10/2013 12:26:13 PM

I want a real life situation of where someone would save $2500 annually on health insurance under obamacare. A family of two making at $100k is not it. Try again

10/10/2013 12:30:05 PM

Okay:
61 year old small business owner in Arkansas
Self Employed
Insurance Cost was $1,069 per month with a $10k deductible (it was comparable to Bronze coverage)
After subsidies, his BCBS silver plan will cost him nothing and has a $750 deductible
And his cost to see a doctor will now be $8 instead of $150

(and the $100k high limit was a family of 4 (2 parents + 2 children). Although I was a little off in my approximation, it would actually be $94,200)

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 12:47:57 PM

So this has turned from "help me pick a plan" to "obamacare sucks" pretty quick huh? Didn't see that coming

10/10/2013 1:04:34 PM

I got a letter from Kaiser saying my premiums are going up 111%, due to rising healthcare costs and government policies. Thanks, Obama!

10/10/2013 1:07:27 PM

^You must have had some bottom-of-the-barrel plan; if this was on the individual market, remember the full premiums (that is, what Kaiser gets) are pre-subsidy, not post, and if it's through your employer, you can still go on the exchange and qualify for a subsidy if the new company plan costs more than 9.5% of your gross income and you'll be making less than 400% of poverty.
(However, as explained below, even if you'd qualify for a subsidy, you'll only get one if the premium for a Silver plan is above a statutory cap on post-subsidy premiums, based on a portion of income that progressively grows from 2% near poverty to 9.5% near 400% of poverty, and if you do, it would be just enough to bring the post-subsidy premium for a Silver plan down to that cap; you could use such a subsidy on a Bronze plan instead, and it might be better for you.)



^^^^try an individual making near-but-above poverty

even at 28 the savings are about $2500 for a Silver plan: http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=11490&employer-coverage=0&people=1&adult-count=1&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=28&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

How about a couple of 24-year-olds making $35k (226% of poverty) between them?
They'll get a subsidy of about $2550 per year for a Silver plan: http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=35000&employer-coverage=0&people=2&adult-count=2&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=24&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&adults%5B1%5D%5Bage%5D=24&adults%5B1%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

What if instead, by that age, they made a baby (average family size is about 3 BTW) and earned $50k (about the median household income, 256% of poverty)?
They'll get a subsidy of about $2560 per year for a Silver plan: http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=50000&employer-coverage=0&people=3&adult-count=2&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=24&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&adults%5B1%5D%5Bage%5D=24&adults%5B1%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=1&child-tobacco=0

In all cases, I used the NCSU ZIP Code and assumed nobody was a smoker; also idk how much the Silver plans compare to similar plans previously available on the non-group market in terms of premiums, because idk whether such plans even existed on a market so prone to adverse selection, but if they did the premiums were probably higher because the risk premium is so high for a single family.



BTW, as mrfrog pointed out, I really should have taken wdprice3's age into account when I talked about the income level at which someone is eligible for about $0 in subsidies; I went with the income level at which nobody would be eligible, but for someone of his age (under 30, I'm guessing 29 but it's worse if he's younger), he could make just under $32k (as an individual) and still be ineligible at 278% of poverty because his post-subsidy premium cap would be 8.87% of his income, same as the premium for a Silver plan: http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=31975&employer-coverage=0&people=1&adult-count=1&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=29&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

However, if he's 29 and partnered with a 29-year-old, they'll be eligible for a subsidy all the way up to 385% of poverty (just over $59.7k): http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=59718&employer-coverage=0&people=2&adult-count=2&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=29&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&adults%5B1%5D%5Bage%5D=29&adults%5B1%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

If, additionally, they have a kid, they'll get at least a little something if their family income is up to 393% of poverty (a little over $76.6k): http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=nc&zip=27695&income-type=dollars&income=76663&employer-coverage=0&people=3&adult-count=2&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=29&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&adults%5B1%5D%5Bage%5D=29&adults%5B1%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=1&child-tobacco=0

10/10/2013 1:34:25 PM

Pretty much. I'm not a full-time employee and I've only been out of grad school a year. I'll be eligible for insurance through my work in January though, so I'm not stressing it too much.

10/10/2013 2:05:04 PM

I for one have been on the Republican health-care plan for years

luckily I haven't had to "die quickly" yet

10/10/2013 2:06:50 PM

I may end up saving 3-4k a year. IF I COULD EVER USE THE FUCKING WEBSITE!

10/10/2013 2:14:09 PM

RAWR RAWR RAWR

Are you running against a deadline here or something?

10/10/2013 2:19:15 PM

yes

december 15 if we want coverage starting january 1

10/10/2013 2:27:34 PM

I still have questions about the particularly low group, the one that's lower than the "gap".

What year is the income determined on anyway? How do they determine any of this if you have no idea how much you'll make in 2014?

Is the "gap" between medicare coverage and getting the subsidy? Or is it between ineligibility for the fine and the start of the subsidy?

10/10/2013 2:35:19 PM

You're supposed to estimate your 2014 Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI); the application walks you through most of what you need and lets you modify the estimate it gives you (like if you say you work one job at a certain pay rate for a certain number of hours per month, and you know you'll be getting a promotion and a pay-raise, you can say so).

The actual amount of subsidy you should have gotten is determined on your 2014 tax return, due in April 2015; if it's more, that will reduce your tax bill or increase your refund, and if it's less, it will increase your tax bill or reduce your refund.

However, there are limits on the amounts that can be clawed back, and I heard that they won't claw anything back for 2014 if you projected over-poverty in a non-expansion state and then you don't make it to the poverty level: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/obamacare-rollout-kaiser-explains-to-poor-people-in-non-medicaid-expansion-states-how-to-game-the-system-by-lying.html

Also, I think I read that if the IRS somehow figures out you've been lying through your teeth about your projected income, criminal penalties may be imposed, but I'm not certain about that.

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 2:50 PM. Reason : It does ask for current employer info, so there's only so far to nudge the numbers.

10/10/2013 2:49:59 PM

my HDHP through my employer used to cost me absolutely nothing. so much for that. it was nice while it lasted.

10/10/2013 3:10:39 PM

A 63 year old small business owner is not the average American family and a $2500 subsidy isn't savings when the premiums are jacked way up. When the president was trying to sell obama care he was saying the average American family can save up to $2500/year on health insurance.

10/10/2013 4:20:14 PM

premiums jacked way up compared to what? a barrel-scraping catastrophic plan that was much worse than even the catastrophic plans now on the exchanges?

remember, the benefit part of a cost-benefit analysis isn't trivial

10/10/2013 4:22:50 PM

My current BCBS plan is $1600/ year with a $5000 deductible..:

Bronze plan is $3100/year with a $12,700 deductible. Explain how that is better?

10/10/2013 4:29:27 PM

First, what's the actuarial value of your current plan?

Second, what (if any) subsidy do you expect to get?

10/10/2013 4:34:57 PM

dude, we already said that its not going to be better for every person. i gave you some criteria for when it would be better, then you asked for a specific example so I gave you one. lewisje posted some other examples of when there would be a benefit.

premiums for healthy young people (especially healthy young men) are going to increase. they may be lower in the long run, but they are definitely increasing for now. they have been saying this for more than a year now.

just because this doesn't help you doesn't mean that it doesn't help everyone

10/10/2013 4:37:15 PM

Something I don't understand and maybe someone can explain to me...

I'm assuming that for big businesses this won't mean much. All my friends get insurance from work, I know of hardly anyone that works for a large business that doesn't get some type of benefits from work, maybe there are I am just not aware. Seems pretty standard.

So it really seems to affect those companies in the 40-100 employee range, that will have to offer insurance that weren't previously. So they are saying they will either have to let people go or make people part time because of the crippling cost. But what I don't get is, if I have 50 people in my company and I now have to provide them health care why don't I simply bring everyone and say, "Hey, we are all getting insurance so there is going to be an X% decrease in everyone's pay to cover the cost. But you all keep your jobs, nobody is moving to part time."

If I'm an employee, why do I care? I get to keep my job, and I'd already be buying my insurance individually anyway so what does it matter if I make 75K, and then pay 5K for personal insurance or make 70K and my work pays for it? It is a wash for me, and I don't get made part time or fired.

10/10/2013 4:47:18 PM

So it's ok to "help" people while hurting others?

10/10/2013 4:48:45 PM

it's ok to rob peter to pay paul as long as both of them are getting fucked in the long run

10/10/2013 4:55:32 PM

Quote :

"But what I don't get is, if I have 50 people in my company and I now have to provide them health care why don't I simply bring everyone and say, "Hey, we are all getting insurance so there is going to be an X% decrease in everyone's pay to cover the cost. But you all keep your jobs, nobody is moving to part time." If I'm an employee, why do I care? I get to keep my job, and I'd already be buying my insurance individually anyway so what does it matter if I make 75K, and then pay 5K for personal insurance or make 70K and my work pays for it? It is a wash for me, and I don't get made part time or fired."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_sticky_wage_theory

10/10/2013 5:03:12 PM

Quote :

"Are you running against a deadline here or something?"

Yes actually. Open enrollment for State Employees is October 1st to October 31st. I want to make sure that I know what is available from the Exchange before then, otherwise I am SOL.

10/10/2013 6:23:29 PM

Quote :

"So it's ok to "help" people while hurting others?"

yes

are you learning about taxes for the first time too?

10/10/2013 7:21:19 PM

from everyone to whom much has been given, much will be demanded, and so forth

10/10/2013 8:47:48 PM

Quote :

"premiums for healthy young people (especially healthy young men) are going to increase. they may be lower in the long run, but they are definitely increasing for now. they have been saying this for more than a year now."

Which is horseshit. The supposed point was to save money, but this is really just another transfer of wealth from young workers to baby boomers. It makes no sense that those least in need of health insurance are now required to pay for it, and to pay more for it at that. That is the definition of a broken insurance law.

10/10/2013 11:14:56 PM

Given huh?

10/10/2013 11:18:04 PM

you didn't know? You haven't done any work to get where you are today. Every last bit of it has just been handed to you. You're a regular Paris Hilton, man

10/10/2013 11:27:22 PM

There's a difference between the implication we have been given EVERYTHING and earned NOTHING and saying that we have been given SOMETHING.

10/10/2013 11:30:47 PM

I am trying to think of a list of things that I have been given.... I went to public school and I drive on roads ( but I pay taxes for that), maybe once a years I will stop to piss at a rest stop funded by state or federal govornment. I am baffled by the idea that the govornment has given me anything. Please to enlighten me.

10/12/2013 9:53:25 AM

The bigger we make the government the more we get. Don't you know that.

Quote :

"lewisje All American 7997 Posts user info edit post from everyone to whom much has been given, much will be demanded, and so forth 10/10/2013 8:47:48 PM "

How does this apply to folks on welfare, disability, etc?

[Edited on October 12, 2013 at 10:34 AM. Reason : L]

10/12/2013 10:23:21 AM

I would never wish tragic events on peoples family's but I swear it would change their mindsets.

And yeah...fuck those disabled people, right?

10/12/2013 10:42:17 AM

The half that don't need it... Sure

http://youtu.be/X-BephrXDwY

Should use this guy as the baseline on disability.

[Edited on October 12, 2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason : Y]

10/12/2013 12:01:24 PM

i'm glad your opinion is a minority one

10/12/2013 1:40:06 PM

It's funny how much dtownral's view on wealthier people helping out poorer people when it comes to the "Affordable" Care Act differs from his views about wealthier people helping out poorer people when it comes to Jesus biscuits in Moore Square

10/12/2013 2:05:44 PM

its because that's not actually helping

10/12/2013 2:13:16 PM

^^^

10/12/2013 2:32:08 PM

What percentage of people like Obamacare

10/12/2013 7:26:45 PM

^ Im sure that the +/- 47% of people that pay no federal income tax at all really like obamacare.

[Edited on October 12, 2013 at 8:29 PM. Reason : ...]

10/12/2013 8:27:46 PM

Wow, that seems like a great thing to conduct a poll about. Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has conducted a poll about ACA? Probably not.

10/12/2013 8:54:11 PM

Quote :

"I am trying to think of a list of things that I have been given.... I went to public school and I drive on roads ( but I pay taxes for that), maybe once a years I will stop to piss at a rest stop funded by state or federal govornment. I am baffled by the idea that the govornment has given me anything. Please to enlighten me."

Well, if you're white, they've given you over 300years of free labor on the back of black people... there's always that...

10/12/2013 9:07:11 PM

To a certain extent the government gives you everything.

10/12/2013 11:46:06 PM

the govt is kind enough to let you live in their house on their land. well, you actually rent from them, but they don't have to let you. they can kick your ass out whenever they want.

10/13/2013 12:07:53 AM

Maybe we should split into 50 tiny countries.

10/13/2013 9:21:06 AM

the aqueduct

10/13/2013 10:30:35 AM

Quote :

"Well, if you're white, they've given you over 300years of free labor on the back of black people... "

Around 1620 when the first Africans got to the colonies, they were the same as other (white) indentured servants, and did become free. The actual start of slavery was 1654 or so. Exactly when is kind of a hard question.

Counting slavery in the area which is now the US, that's a little over 200 years. But maybe you're interested in counting European practices, which would be an great example of counting all "white" people as a monolithic thing.

10/13/2013 11:20:19 AM

slaves were expensive to purchase, and only the wealthiest members of society owned slaves. to act like all white people benefitted from slavery is nothing short of ignorant.

10/13/2013 11:56:31 AM