[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 11:25 AM. Reason : third]

10/10/2013 11:13:01 AM

Quote :

" If anything, we need to be increasing thee monies for sports so that more people can participate. The biggest problem with high school sports is that you have to be good to play. Everyone doesn't have to be varsity but there should be as many levels of teams as there is student interest in a sport."

but shouldn't funding academics be the priority? if we spent the time and praise on academics that we do athletics, why can students not learn some of those lessons from academics (as the journal article TerdFerguson posted suggested)

And why do we need expensive facilities and coaches to teach those lessons? At the very least, we should remove football since it is such an expensive sport. (And because it is dangerous)

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 11:15:09 AM

someone is angry?

10/10/2013 11:15:36 AM

go away fatty, the adults are talking. I moved us to a new page so we could get past your juvenile simple-minded antics.

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 11:17:05 AM

people are not robots. some need additional incentive and support to succeed in school, which sports provides.

(even though this is clearly a troll thread)

10/10/2013 11:30:21 AM

this is not a troll thread

why are high cost athletics the only things to fill that roll? and if only a minority of students are involved in athletics, why is that a worthwhile investment?

10/10/2013 11:39:27 AM

Quote :

"why are high cost athletics the only things to fill that roll?"

they aren't. everyone itt has agreed with you that we spend too much on it

Quote :

"and if only a minority of students are involved in athletics, why is that a worthwhile investment?"

same reason as for band, service clubs, etc. the fact that it costs more money is not important. it's not an imperative that the same amount of money be spent on every child.

10/10/2013 11:45:42 AM

so if athletics are how to motivate students, then why are the south korean students in that article doing so much better without athletics? no one else has high school athletics like we do, and yet they motivate their students.

10/10/2013 12:06:52 PM

what article? what are they doing better at?

sports are A way to motivate students. not THE way. i think you're being intentionally obtuse at this point

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 12:11:11 PM

the one on the first page:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/

American high school students do not rank particularly well, so why do we need publicly funded athletics if other countries can do well without them?

I'm not the one being obtuse because I'm not the one claiming that we need publicly funded athletics

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 12:14:51 PM

also, I really think you need to consider cultural differences when comparing us with S. Korea, especially when it comes to education. Education just isn't the same type of priority in the US as it is in Korea, hell, there is a significant portion of our population that actively celebrates their ignorance and think its a family value.

I really hate using the "cultural differences" argument, since I think it gets thrown around way too often, but education is one of the few areas I think its legit.

10/10/2013 12:17:45 PM

^^
are you aware of how hard students are worked in south korea? (12+ hours a day plus some weekends)

and the suicide problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea

Quote :

"also, I really think you need to consider cultural differences when comparing us with S. Korea, especially when it comes to education."

he's not that stupid. he's being obtuse.

10/10/2013 12:22:31 PM

of course i understand all that, and i'm saying our schools need to look more like that and less like athletic clubs

if you don't like South Korea, use any other example that you would like

10/10/2013 12:28:14 PM

well did you read the counter article to your OP?

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/high-school-sports-arent-killing-academics/280155/

10/10/2013 12:51:25 PM

Quote :

"our schools need to look more like that "

childhood destroying drone factories?

10/10/2013 12:55:24 PM

they don't do well because of sports, they have strong sports for the same reason they do well academically (money and parental involvement). that is the conclusion they cite, and it supports my position.

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ^yes]

10/10/2013 12:57:33 PM

suicide machines?

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason : is your position still to completely abolish athletics from public schools?]

10/10/2013 12:57:52 PM

lets get rid of art and music too

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 1:01 PM. Reason : and theater]

10/10/2013 1:01:05 PM

are those things still well funded anywhere?

10/10/2013 1:04:27 PM

who cares? theyre detracting from your definition of school.

10/10/2013 1:06:51 PM

I'm talking about funding academics, I've clearly stated that inter-school sports wouldn't be an issue if they were privately funded. I also stated that PE and intramurals (as a catch phrase for cheap physical activity and competition) should continue to be part of the curriculum, just not expensive sports that only benefit a few students. I would apply those same criteria to the arts, but I'm not aware of anywhere that is using a lot of public money to fund flashy arts programs. I'd have an issue if they wanted to build an expensive auditorium and sound booth for a play.

10/10/2013 1:14:44 PM

so make all schools private or charter.

got it.

how about you make a realistic thread or take a realistic stance for once?

10/10/2013 1:20:12 PM

no, make schools about academics. make athletics private.

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 1:23:57 PM

most everyone in this thread has somewhat agreed with you to some degree

10/10/2013 1:29:50 PM

^^
why? you still haven't given a decent reason other than "they cost too much". fine. give them less money. we don't need big stadiums or fancy uniforms.

should we also do away with school counselors? school lunches? busses? none of these have anything to do with academics, but they are tools to help children succeed.

school is not only about learning 2+2

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 1:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2013 1:32:33 PM

sports are the reason american students are 30th (or whatever) in the world when it comes to smartness.

10/10/2013 1:44:23 PM

^^but it shouldn't be at all about learning to beat the shit out of weaker kids for fame and glory

10/10/2013 1:55:18 PM

Quote :

"^^but it shouldn't be at all about learning to beat the shit out of weaker kids for fame and glory"

that isn't what sports are though

10/10/2013 1:57:30 PM

it's how I saw them as a kid

on the playground

or at least the kids who played sports

10/10/2013 2:09:02 PM

if you had tried to play sports, it might have made you tougher, both physically and mentally. j/k, kinda

but seriously, that's a pretty generic statement. sports are not about learning to beat the shit out of weaker kids. it's been mentioned multiple times the positive aspects of kids playing sports

[Edited on October 10, 2013 at 2:13 PM. Reason : ]

10/10/2013 2:12:32 PM

do you take into account the fact that these facilities are also used for things other than athletics? e.g. assemblies, pep rallys, stage performances, PE classes, etc.? perhaps their multi-use case is what justifies their funding.

10/10/2013 2:28:04 PM

pep rallies are a joke too, so are most assemblies

anyway I've always seen that stuff done in a gymnasium or auditorium, not a stadium

10/10/2013 2:31:54 PM

lot of childhood issues ITT.

moderation, people.. there's a middle ground on this

10/10/2013 2:40:23 PM

pep rallies are ridiculous

10/10/2013 2:40:25 PM

Quote :

"moderation, people.. there's a middle ground on this"

I'm not sure that there is.

I think all the negative outcomes that result from school-sponsored athletics are inherent to *any* level of school sponsorship.

10/10/2013 9:32:58 PM

Quote :

"why can students not learn some of those lessons from academics"

It is not practicle. Academics gives you knowledge, skills and teaches you how to think but does not give you the real world experience that sports does. Sports is the real world. Its not a theory in the textbook, its not a word problem, its the real thing.

Quote :

"And why do we need expensive facilities and coaches to teach those lessons? At the very least, we should remove football since it is such an expensive sport. (And because it is dangerous)"

Football is our national sport and is so entrenched in the culture that people will stay interested in it. Would be cool if we did soccer instead but that is a cultural thing at this point. You want kids to be able to love what they are learning and learn what they love. It creates a freindly environment for the brain.

Big stadiums allow the kids to perform in front of the entire town which means they will learn more because they will take it more seriously if its actually a big deal. I know only 1 person is going to see my math problem set so who cares if I blow it off.

Quote :

"then why are the south korean students in that article doing so much better without athletics?"

Are they? Has there been research how well korean students can work on a team with people from other races, backgrounds and religions to achieve a common goal in a fast-pace, highly competitive environment?

Quote :

"American high school students do not rank particularly well, so why do we need publicly funded athletics if other countries can do well without them?"

Your first assumption is that public funding of athletics is somehow hurting our rank or not affecting it when it is proven fact that athletics is BOOSTING our rank.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aP2ohu8Tjoas
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpsych.hanover.edu%2Fresearch%2Fthesis04%2FBartling.ppt&ei=Xl5XUszrHcX1iQKHk4CwCA&usg=AFQjCNG68s39rhyCTBtUJceNRJtVZ0fGug&sig2=jR3HchRx10pZfE_qpqYcFg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.cGE

Our rank would be much lower without athletics because it is the students with no outlet who perform poorly in school and sports gives students skills and confidence to succeed in all walks of life.

Quote :

"I'm talking about funding academics, I've clearly stated that inter-school sports wouldn't be an issue if they were privately funded. I also stated that PE and intramural (as a catch phrase for cheap physical activity and competition) should continue to be part of the curriculum, just not expensive sports that only benefit a few students. "

You need to make up your mind what you are actually arguing because you have somewhat conflicting arguements

1. You say too much sports is hurting our students scores (i know its wrong but its your claim)
2. You say that this would all improve if funding came privately
3. privately funded athletics would somehow enhance student learning simply because the money is coming from somewhere else.

It seems you just want to keep poor kids from learning by making athletics unaffordable for them.

10/10/2013 10:18:29 PM

Quote :

"Sports is the real world. Its not a theory in the textbook"

the hurr is strong with this one

it sounds like you think that what kids learn in school has no connection to reality

it's like you're a rethug

10/11/2013 5:41:56 AM

I do agree that sports are a "real life" competition. You can't get that level of real time competitiveness elsewhere. You can't fake your way through it. You practice, prepare, and perform when it matters. There is an academic aspect to sports as well.

10/11/2013 7:48:45 AM

Sports are a real industry with real dollars associated with them. Schools would be skirting their responsibility if they didn't include sports opportunities... and it's more than just athletes... schools have managers, statisticians, event planners, sports med first responders, and a host of other things that involve the whole community. In fact, I can't think of anything else that brings such a multi-disciplinary group of people together to use their skills and learn to work together.

10/11/2013 7:59:09 AM

the sports industry is tiny compared to other possible industries, for example the tech industry. so we should start kids coding and using technology, or being involved in any other larger industry, before sports. create a sports magnet center if you want, but it shouldn't be in every school taking away money from better prospects and more important things.

10/11/2013 8:52:33 AM

Our school had sports AND computer science. Shocking I know, we didn't just play sports all day. I also took things like calculus, art, Spanish, shop, web design, history, etc.

We also had a fuck ton of fund raisers for the various sports teams to help develop the facilities. We also volunteered our time to work on the fields.

Shockingly, you still make no valid argument.

10/11/2013 10:31:13 AM

With very little research into the topic/thread, I'd take an educated guess that football is the biggest line item on most count school system budgets when it comes to sports.

Part of this issue will solve itself in time; publicly financed football from the High School level down will face increasing pressure and eventual disbandment, if it's not substantially altered from what we currently know.

This will happen b/c of the insurance liability and injury risks associated with participants. As more information disseminates to the public about the serious, long-term health risks associated with football participation, one of two things will happen. Either legislation will be passed that prohibits parents from exposing their children to an activity that has serious long-term health impacts, or insurance to cover these activities will become too expensive to buy into. It will simply cost too much money for a public school system to insure it's football teams.

I'm not saying football itself will die, but I don't believe that tackle football as we know it will survive below the college level. Once someone reaches the age of 18, they are consenting adults, and they can knowingly put themselves into an activity with long-term health risks as well as sign away the liability. But under 18? Nope. Not on the public dime at least.

All that being said, the "life lessons" that people champion are not exclusive to sports. You can learn the same skills in academics as well as athletics.

Personally, I believe school should be about academics, not athletics or extra-curricular activities. Athletics, arts, etc should be entered into and financed outside the school system, either by the individual participants or through sponsorship of private money.

10/11/2013 10:41:52 AM

^^ you are missing the point completely

10/11/2013 11:17:32 AM

No, you aren't making a point worth noting

10/11/2013 11:50:15 AM

wrong

you aren't

10/11/2013 12:48:24 PM

Quote :

"Personally, I believe school should be about academics, not athletics or extra-curricular activities. Athletics, arts, etc should be entered into and financed outside the school system, either by the individual participants or through sponsorship of private money."

i'd modify/expand on that just a bit since people ITT just want to argue the smaller picture all day.

make school about learning a trade that an individual is interested and geared towards. drop everything else. if a tech-minded person wants to learn advanced mathematics/computer science, don't force them to take classes that make them learn state capitols or freaking sing/line dance.

right now, a public education all the way through college usually means 80% of the stuff you are forced to learn/test against is utterly useless and forgotten within days. it's the reason i slept through a lot of high school and to this day couldn't even tell you half the classes i took. i played football and wrestled -- no, those don't apply anymore either, but i did learn about taking care of my own health and many other things from those activities. sports aren't completely stupid/useless, and the exact same thing can be said about education. i was salutatorian of my graduating high school class; it wasn't that i didn't appreciate education, i just found most of it useless.

fix the schools/curriculums if you're looking for something to wreck. that needs to happen long before just a blanket move like removing all sports.

10/11/2013 3:07:38 PM

i played 3 sports a year in high school and i learned more life lessons that have been direct benefits from those than any single course i had to take. I'm not saying courses aren't important, but sports give a person life lessons that can apply for a lifetime. This is one of the most important parts of any education, especially high school.

10/11/2013 4:16:59 PM

Crap, I didn't play any sports in high school. I guess I'm half a person.

I'm pretty sure the life lessons you're talking about (teamwork, working hard, practicing, failing, succeeding) all can be found in academics as well. In fact, since most people will end up as cogs in the corporate or retail machines and not as professional athletes, they'd be better off learning how to interact with people in a non-athletic setting.

(disclaimer, I don't agree that we should remove athletics from public schools)

10/11/2013 4:29:17 PM

I was a straight A/B student, took advanced and AP classes, was in honors society, art club, spanish club... and played sports. And I feel that I got some life lessons out of sports that I didn't get in high school classes or clubs.

And let's face it, some kids suck at classes and don't join other clubs. They're not going to get the life lessons there.

10/11/2013 4:38:16 PM

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure the life lessons you're talking about (teamwork, working hard, practicing, failing, succeeding) all can be found in academics as well."

different people find life lessons in different ways. what works for you doesn't necessarily work for others.

[Edited on October 11, 2013 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2013 4:40:23 PM