tricked again by that pesky "M" thing on her profile

10/29/2013 10:52:17 PM

What you're saying is, you can't trust women.

/thread

10/29/2013 10:54:45 PM

That's ok. The dick up my bum fooled me.

10/29/2013 10:55:04 PM

Quote :

"These are the remarks that inspired this whole discussion you guys have been having:"

So it sounds like you're confusing:

Quote :

"Please get an abortion. Please, please, please get an abortion"

with:

Quote :

"Please get an abortion. Please, please, please get an abortion [bitch]"

pleading != telling

pleading also != telling her what's best for her

lastly, as far as i can tell he's the only dude ITT even advocating that approach, and most of his posts read like he's clinically insane.

Quote :

"If our aim here is to assign blame..."

That's pretty much all GREEN JAY has been doing in this thread.

10/29/2013 10:55:39 PM

GREEN JAY definitely is a vag haver. I have actually seen/felt/smelled it.

10/29/2013 10:55:46 PM

For those of you who think its rude to suggest an abortion...(I'm making no claims that I support this concept)

What recourse does a male have when there is an accident? sure you can buy plan b, but you can't force the girl to take it... So, in effect, the female has the power to make a decision that will hold the male liable in an order of hundreds of thousands of dollars, because they didn't want to take a $50 pill.

I don't think its rude to suggest the only alternatives, if thats what the male feels is right for himself.

10/29/2013 11:08:20 PM

Quote :

" I think that in the future, men will freeze vials of their goof juice for future use, and then get a vasectomy."

I've been thinking seriously about doing just that .

Or maybe just not bothering with the freezing part.

Waaaaaay too many untrustworthy women to worry about. Hell it's already happened to me once.

For that matter, the last chick I dated (I use that term loosely; we went out a few times) confided in me that she'd intentionally had an "unexpected" pregnancy with her ex-husband so she could avoid a military deployment back when she was in the Army. This girl is about to complete her Ph.D; it's not like she's some dumbass trailer trash, either. That was the end of any relationship future there.


Additionally , Green Jay, you are fucking warped.

10/29/2013 11:09:42 PM

I think she's pretty sane. When a woman has sex, she has to accept the possibly of pregnancy no matter what precautions are taken. I think that it is perfectly reasonable for men to accept the same possibility. If your penis comes near a vagina, you could end up with a baby. We deal with it every time we fuck, why not you? You cannot expect her to have an abortion any more than she can expect to pop out a kid and hand it over to you.

10/29/2013 11:16:05 PM

I think that everyone understands that by having sex, you run the risk of a pregnancy...
That's not really what's being discussed here though, now is it?

10/29/2013 11:20:10 PM

Of course; I agree with all that. Who wouldn't?

That's not at all what she's been saying , though.

10/29/2013 11:20:41 PM

Quote :

"When a woman has sex, she has to accept the possibly of pregnancy no matter what precautions are taken. I think that it is perfectly reasonable for men to accept the same possibility"

For sure. Dudes need to be careful who they sleep with, and be careful about how they proceed with the deed, with that reality in mind.

Quote :

"You cannot expect her to have an abortion"

Yet another mischaracterization of the male-provided opinions expressed in this thread. Thanks for picking up where GREEN JAY left off.

10/29/2013 11:27:58 PM

^^^I think that it is. Essentially, once you make the decision to fuck her, you've accepted the possibility and in turn the responsibility. Beyond that it's her body her choice and you've got to deal with her choice. Like it or not. And this is why I think you shouldn't fuck random ass people. Not everyone is a her body her choice kind of person so you may disagree, but I don't think she's way off base.

[Edited on October 29, 2013 at 11:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/29/2013 11:28:55 PM

Lol. Expression of what is best for you is apparently an expectation.

What about the other way... You oops in a girl, she gets pregnant, dude is all for it and want to "do the right thing". Girl is all fuck that, I'm getting an abortion. Sure, leverage points to the girl for having to carry the baby to term, but can't she pop it out and give it to the father? Why should she expect him to be cool with an abortion?

10/29/2013 11:31:18 PM

explain that, bitches

10/29/2013 11:33:09 PM

Let's try to keep this civil.

10/29/2013 11:40:56 PM

Well, I'm technically "pro life," though I don't like the term. I think that it goes both ways. I think a woman also accepts the responsibility of raising a child every time she sex. Abortion is not birth control. Not for her. Not for him. You're both to ensure that you and your partner are protected from an unwanted pregnancy. If you fail, then you have a baby. Period. You don't kill someone because shit didn't go your way.

10/29/2013 11:43:05 PM

10/29/2013 11:44:35 PM

AHA, it's like you guys expect life to be fair.

10/29/2013 11:45:36 PM

Fucking without a baby isn't some kind of civil right. If you're not ready to have a kid, you're not ready to have sex and should probably develop a relationship with your hand.

10/29/2013 11:48:25 PM

That's missing the point entirely. This isn't a case of whether you're pro-life or pro-choice. This is a question of whether its appropriate to suggest it, if someone feels incapable of providing for the child.

10/29/2013 11:50:06 PM

I dunno. If I was a dude, I'd probably wanna have a string of abortions and knock up a 21 year-old when I'm 55 and worried about my legacy. All these stupid cunts and their wombs would fucking ruin my plan though. So oppressive!

10/29/2013 11:53:49 PM

I think it's pretty simple enough to say I'm not ready to be a parent instead of please please please abort. Shit has already gone down without one of you pussying out and pressuring the other to do what is best for you. Especially when you're not the one giving up your body for the duration.

10/29/2013 11:54:22 PM

Not only is it "I'm not ready to be a parent" its "I don't want the financial responsibility."

For the record, before I get branded as being blunt and callous, I'd accept responsibility insofar as taking full custody... This is not some sort of planning a conquest.

10/30/2013 12:01:27 AM

If they have your baby, and they need your money, then they're gonna get it. It's not fair. And that's why these nice ladies have been trying to tell you how to avoid an unplanned pregnancy.

10/30/2013 12:07:37 AM

+1

One you come, Elvis has left the building, the horse is out of the gate, the issue is out of your hands..

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:13 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2013 12:13:16 AM

That wasn't the goddamn point. The point was, men have a quarter million dollar reason to suggest whatever the fuck they want. And this completely without regard to morality, or legal leverage.

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:22 AM. Reason : reading is hard]

10/30/2013 12:22:07 AM

Have you been pregnant? I've been pregnant twice. Fuck your quarter million dollar reason.

I give up.

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:32 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2013 12:29:18 AM

Sounds like you've got even more reason to let them make all suggestions. To spare you from the horror.

Again this is not about the decision, its about who is allowed to suggest what. Something none of you can seem to get through your thick skulls.

10/30/2013 12:32:13 AM

You're allowed to suggest anything you want.

10/30/2013 12:34:22 AM

I can't think of any way for a man to swindle a woman out of that much money

10/30/2013 12:34:46 AM

Quote :

"In Ms. Jay's first post, she said that it would be rude and immature to tell someone to have an abortion, and she's absolutely right"

Quote :

"You're allowed to suggest anything you want. "

Did you black out when you posted that?

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:37 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2013 12:37:03 AM

^^Yeah, women have really got it made.

^Do you read multiple sentences? Here's what I said right after that:

Quote :

"Of course, you can still do that--people do rude, immature things all the time."

Look, the woman is already thinking about an abortion. And if you make it clear you don't want to be a part of her life or the child's life, she's going to factor that in to her decision.

Of course, we're talking about a scenario that is very likely never going to happen. If anybody's gonna get pregnant on you, it'll be your wife or your girlfriend of five years who is ready to get the show on the road. That's how that happens (and how a good deal of babies are brought into this world). And, no, she's not going to abort it.

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:43 AM. Reason : This isn't that hard, guys.]

10/30/2013 12:37:03 AM

I think this thread has been quite telling. Its astonishing that significant decisions affecting multiple people are cool to be made unilaterally, without regard to the other persons concerns. Going so far as to suggest that it is rude to express their thoughts is ridiculous. Some concerns carry more weight, but that's no way to carry a relationship.

Ultimately, I feel sorry for the people you live with.

10/30/2013 12:46:43 AM

Women already care about you and your concerns, like way too much, by the way.

10/30/2013 1:10:33 AM

Quote :

"Of course, we're talking about a scenario that is very likely never going to happen. If anybody's gonna get pregnant on you, it'll be your wife or your girlfriend of five years who is ready to get the show on the road. That's how that happens (and how a good deal of babies are brought into this world). And, no, she's not going to abort it. [Edited on October 30, 2013 at 12:43 AM. Reason : This isn't that hard, guys.] "

Let's ask theDuke866 about "how that happens"...I think he might have some experience here.

Quote :

"You're allowed to suggest anything you want."

Not true, according to GREEN JAY

Quote :

"Have you been pregnant? I've been pregnant twice. Fuck your quarter million dollar reason."

I AM WOMAN/MOMMY BEAST HEAR ME ROAR!!!!!!!!!!11

10/30/2013 1:36:39 AM

As an aside, tell me how this scenario works.

I participate in a glorious one night stand, which results in a pregnancy. I earn $23k/year and she earns $180k/year.

If we agree on 1/2 and 1/2 custody, who has to pay child support, and how much?

10/30/2013 1:58:17 AM

God damn, you people are bringing the lols

10/30/2013 5:09:18 AM

God damn, you people are bringing the lols

10/30/2013 5:09:18 AM

My personal opinion: if I were to get knocked up by someone who desperately wanted an abortion and it truly was an accident where precautions were taken, first I wouldnt get an abortion but if the father had no desire to raise a child I would cut him a deal. Pay all maternity fees and sign away your parental rights and you are off the hook. If he decides he wants parental rights then he can do the standard custody and child support stuff. I do feel like it is ultimately my choice, but we both fucked up or just got genuinely unlucky. Also who would want to raise a child with someone who honestly didnt want a child? Or someone you end up despising? Just so you can get their money. I grew up poor and I turned out fine.

10/30/2013 6:18:51 AM

Quote :

"Well, I'm technically "pro life,""

Quote :

"If you're not ready to have a kid, you're not ready to have sex"

lol, there it is

10/30/2013 8:05:02 AM

I'm probably one of the least conservative people on TWW. Ask just about anyone. But I believe that a level of maturity and acceptance of responsibility is a prerequisite for sex. Sex is awesome. Sex also should command a certain amount of respect because it can have life long consequences that you should be prepared to accept and handle. Be it herpes or a baby.

And I am just philosophically against abortion as back up birth control.

10/30/2013 8:35:50 AM

do they make the morning after pill in blow dart form?

10/30/2013 8:48:37 AM

Quote :

"And I am just philosophically against abortion as back up birth control."

why? i don't understand this stance. if abortion is murder, it's wrong in all situations except when the mother's life is in danger.

Quote :

"Sex also should command a certain amount of respect because it can have life long consequences that you should be prepared to accept and handle."

yeah but you can avoid some of those consequences if you don't impose inconsistent morals on yourself

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 8:53 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2013 8:51:21 AM

The women in this thread would be singing a different tune if the court system awarded custody of the child to the father in most cases involving unwed parents... Morning after pills would come in pez dispenser form.

Discuss.

10/30/2013 8:55:45 AM

Plan b is back up birth control... But you can't forcibly medicate someone.

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 8:58 AM. Reason : ^lol no discussion needed.]

10/30/2013 8:58:02 AM

I love this thread

10/30/2013 9:10:36 AM

Quote :

"If we agree on 1/2 and 1/2 custody, who has to pay child support, and how much?"

She would have to pay you, and it would be a shitload, depending on the state you were in. As a rough number, I would guess something on the order of $1500/month.

The problem would be getting 50/50 custody to begin with...she has a huge financial disincentive to agree to that, not to mention various personal reasons not to. You'd also have a tough time beating her into submission with the money hammer until you got what you wanted, and that is a huge disadvantage (although she would likely have to pay a large part of your legal fees). Your only hope would be to demonstrate that she was massively and chronically less fit as a parent than you.


I got 50/50 sharing due to (a) a change in FL law establishing parity, at least on paper, between mothers and fathers, and 50/50 being the default in the absence of any reason to deviate; (b) making 2-3x more money than the mother, saving up a year's salary while in Iraq and Afghanistan, and being willing to spend whatever I needed to if I had to drag things out to the point where neither she nor her family could afford to pay a lawyer, and (c) having a lot of legal leverage due to an ongoing history of her doing stupid shit (police reports and contempt of court hearings, busted her with photographic evidence of perjury at her contempt hearing, phone records showing her denying me contact with my daughter, generally TONS of notes and records detailing everything.) That, and being a lot better at formulating/articulating arguments in court and teeing things up for my lawyer/parrying loaded questions/logical fallacies by her lawyer(s).

Even then, it took about 4 years, 4 trips to court or mediation, and I think about $30,000...on top of about $80,000 in child support over the last 7 years (plus all I've spent on my daughter myself, which I don't begrudge at all, obviously).

I think that as a dude, in most states, up against a non-crazy, fit mother making nearly 8x his income, you would be completely fucked. You'd probably get to borrow your kid for a few days per month, but you wouldn't really get to be a dad.


[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 9:40 AM. Reason : ]

10/30/2013 9:29:12 AM

this thread embodies everything that is both right and wrong about tww, kudos

10/30/2013 9:37:48 AM

Quote :

"What about the other way... You oops in a girl, she gets pregnant, dude is all for it and want to "do the right thing". Girl is all fuck that, I'm getting an abortion. Sure, leverage points to the girl for having to carry the baby to term, but can't she pop it out and give it to the father? Why should she expect him to be cool with an abortion?"

It's forcing a woman to be a babymaking slave for 9 months

until men can carry that baby for 9 months, it's going to be her say

if you could find a woman who would willingly carry a baby to term for you, I'd have no issue with her waiving her rights as a mom after it was born

similarly, I don't think there's a problem with having a man agree to sign his rights away as a dad after it was born if she wanted to keep it

but I'd certainly say that more men than women would want to cut and run, which is probably one reason why the court system is slanted the way it is

aside from the fact that women generally make less than men and are therefore happy to take the extra check in the mail

Quote :

"I participate in a glorious one night stand, which results in a pregnancy. I earn $23k/year and she earns $180k/year."

she wouldn't be sleeping with you

[Edited on October 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM. Reason : at the end of the day, men are extremely lucky they can't get pregnant from sex]

10/30/2013 10:16:01 AM

^^With all of that shit your baby momma put you through, did you ever want her to get an abortion or regret not getting one? Did ya'll talk about it at the time? Are you glad now in retrospect that you did not? We had a kid pretty young due to failed BC, but I can't say that we ever discussed abortion or ever regretted now going down that road and almost eleven years later we are still happily married. I know Duke wasn't as young as I, but I know his situation was really unplanned as well, hence why I ask.

10/30/2013 10:23:50 AM