You realize just how bizarre worship is when you see photos and videos of it.

7/31/2014 3:24:59 AM

Quote :

"And don't call yourself a non-Christian. If you ever sat in a church and believed a lick of that garbage, you still got some Christian taint on you."

hah

^ you're right, it is...but i like the most basic principles of worship, which is essentially a centering of yourself and a time of reflection

of course, you don't have to be religious to do this - you could meditate, do yoga, listen to music, lay out at the beach, whatever - but i find it interesting that it is a core component of most major religions

7/31/2014 8:00:33 AM

We live in the 21st Century...how anyone can believe in this hocus pocus is beyond me.

7/31/2014 8:17:19 AM

Quote :

"We live in the 21st Century...how anyone can believe in this hocus pocus the theory of relativity is beyond me."

7/31/2014 8:33:15 AM

Umm, what?

7/31/2014 9:51:10 AM

huh?

7/31/2014 9:52:45 AM

believing something unproven isn't relegated only to religion..."regular" people do it all the time with "science"

it's a perfectly valid argument that "believing in" a theory that is unproven (which, in fact, is under scrutiny for being incomplete or flawed) requires just as much faith as believing in a deity

i know it makes me uncool, but i think it's sad that folks can go on mocking religion but accept other things as facts when they aren't

for some reason, it's more acceptable to say there's an alien (or aliens) out there who are so much more advanced that us that they have the ability to interact with us on a level that goes beyond our understanding...call it "god" and your "soul" and suddenly it's hocus pocus and you get mocked for it

in some ways (not all, mind you), the atheists and anti-religious are just as small-minded as the crazy denominations...they're just more socially acceptable because it's cool right now

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2014 10:03:56 AM

that's silly, and it has nothing to do with being "cool".

believing or accepting or tolerating scientific theories is a lot different than believing in super natural myths.

7/31/2014 10:06:32 AM

Quote :

"believing or accepting or tolerating scientific theories is a lot different than believing in super natural myths."

this is your problem

as i've said before in this thread, i think religion is - at its most basic - an oversimplification of concepts that people don't understand

humankind looks for reasons for EVERYTHING...you're looking down on a huge group of people (the religious) for no reason other than that they have chosen not to pursue an explanation the same way you would (science)

i'm simply suggesting that your scorn for the same "problem" you have (not knowing the answer to everything and thinking that you do) makes you an ignorant, intolerant asshole

7/31/2014 10:14:59 AM

They're not even comparable.

Scientific theories are constantly being researched, updated, and proven/disproven.

Religious texts are thousands of years old, have undergone countless translations from original materials not to mention having been corrupted by people in power to suit their needs for centuries. If you believe the book and message you're reading/being preached at is the same thing that was originally observed/written then you're just plain deceiving yourselves.

7/31/2014 10:16:10 AM

Quote :

"not knowing the answer to everything and thinking that you do"

what? I don't pretend to think I know everything. I'll gladly admit that there's countless things that I don't know or understand. But I do know that man-made religions aren't real. I don't think that makes me an asshole.

7/31/2014 10:26:21 AM

Quote :

"They're not even comparable."

well...except that they are

please tell me right now in this point in time, how believing in an unproven scientific theory is significantly different than believing that, say, there is something intrinsic to each us individually (a soul) and that there is a being out there that can interact with that soul

i'm betting the best you can come up with is that the theory is based on observable factors...but if you can't prove the theory, you're accepting it based on faith

a "miracle" can be observed, too, and it requires faith to jump to the idea that a deity is behind it all...the difference is that they stop there and you want to know more (their "why" is easier than your "why")

Quote :

"I don't think that makes me an asshole."

no, having the disdain and condescension that you obviously do for others is what makes you (and others like you) an asshole

looking down on the religious as a whole makes you no better than them doing the same for you...how can you not see that? you can mock them all you want, but you can't possibly think that it makes you better in any way...can you?

7/31/2014 10:33:09 AM

i don't think I'm necessarily "better" than religious people, i'm just baffled that people can believe in that stuff. but how am i mocking them? are you referring to me calling religion a "myth"? is that the mocking you're referring to? and it's funny that you are trying to give out advice about how not to be an asshole. you usually come across as a jerk on this board.

7/31/2014 10:37:00 AM

Quote :

"i don't think I'm necessarily "better" than religious people, i'm just baffled that people can believe in that stuff. but how am i mocking them? are you referring to me calling religion a "myth"? is that the mocking you're referring to?"

it's your blanket assertion that religion is bad (see also the VBS thread)

do i think there are some "crazy" beliefs out there? yep...and i, too, am baffled...but i don't make this blanket assumption that all religion is crazy or bad or that the people who subscribe to particular religious tenets are stupid

Quote :

"and it's funny that you are trying to give out advice about how not to be an asshole. you usually come across as a jerk on this board."

i accept that...i'm a judgmental person just like the rest of you...but i like to think my judgments are based largely on individual actions and beliefs, not on generalizations, though

for example, you seem to be of the opinion that "VBS is indoctrination of religious myths for little kids"...i feel bad for you that you're so ignorant...you should also be smart enough to recognize that your extremely limited experiences are exactly that: limited

i think people should try to be a little less limited...great, religion isn't for you...but not everyone who subscribes to one is a crackpot or idiot

7/31/2014 10:46:31 AM

It's called Vacation Bible School. I don't think I'm generalizing when I assume that they're teaching young impressionable kids that christianity is real, which is indoctrination.

7/31/2014 10:49:12 AM

Quote :

"It's called Vacation Bible School. I don't think I'm generalizing when I assume that they're teaching young impressionable kids that christianity is real, which is indoctrination."

well, you're getting there...you realize you're making assumptions, you just haven't realized they're wrong, yet

i learned about the bible (among other historical religious texts) in my religion courses in undergrad, but i don't think i was indoctrinated...or are you implying that i was, simply by reading it?

as noted in the other thread, being taught about the stories in the bible is a far cry from indoctrination...especially if you're allowed to ask questions

the very use of "indoctrination" is explicitly inflammatory and condescending...you don't see that? you'd have a point if you were right, but your generalizations simply aren't

as you hopefully learned from the thread, most people who went did so for fun, games, crafts, food, and had only a very small part of the day dedicated to learning about a story from the bible...doesn't quite sound like the nazi agenda now, does it?

also, i gotta say...this current pope seems like a real asshole, doesn't he? i mean, he must be, since he's part of a religion

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-issues-top-10-tips-for-happiness--including-dont-try-to-convert-other-people-9639488.html

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 10:58 AM. Reason : link]

7/31/2014 10:55:23 AM

Quote :

"i learned about the bible (among other historical religious texts) in my religion courses in undergrad, but i don't think i was indoctrinated...or are you implying that i was, simply by reading it?"

I'm not sure how you don't see the difference between young kids being taught a specific religion as truth versus a college student taking a religion class.

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 10:59 AM. Reason : nazi germany? what?]

7/31/2014 10:58:41 AM

Quote :

"as you hopefully learned from the thread, most people who went did so for fun, games, crafts, food, and had only a very small part of the day dedicated to learning about a story from the bible...doesn't quite sound like the nazi agenda now, does it?"

but..... the bible part of it is the entire reason to go.... it's not summer camp or an equivalent. The entire point is to ingrain the beliefs of the denomination's agenda.

7/31/2014 10:59:28 AM

Quote :

"I'm not sure how you don't see the difference between young kids being taught a specific religion as truth versus a college student taking a religion class."

you'd have a point if every single church for every single faith throughout the entire world actually did indoctrinate children...but they don't

as i noted before, my church had duke divinity interns as a youth pastors and they brought a lot of historical context into learning about christianity...including radical things like "there is no hell"

kind of hard to teach kids they're going to hell when you tell them there isn't one, you know?

Quote :

"but..... the bible part of it is the entire reason to go.... it's not summer camp or an equivalent. The entire point is to ingrain the beliefs of the denomination's agenda."

lolol...no, the entire reason is to have some (usually free) place to dump your kids that is run mostly by volunteers that you know and trust

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2014 11:01:09 AM

This is pretty simple man. I know I'm repeating myself, but the core tenet of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of god and was sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life (The Gospel of John 3:16). I feel safe in saying that the vast majority of christian churches believe that, and that and the other myths surrounding the bible are taught as truth at VBS to young kids.

yes, I realize that kids have fun at VBS and it's a free daycare. I had fun at VBS. But there is a religious component to it that teaches a specific religion as truth to the kids. Sounds like you're using your example of "They had a pastor come to mine who said there was no hell" to make generalizations about all VBS (although I'm still sure that guy told you that jesus was god's son and was sent here to die for your sins and he rose from the grave a few days later).

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:09 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2014 11:09:01 AM

semi-rant...

My wife (against my advisement) dropped our 3 year old off at a summer bible school to hang out with his cousin. My thought was that 3 year olds don't really get it and he won't pick anything up. It would be more of a social interaction and play time group... Well of freaking course he is told that a god makes plants grow and learns to sing a song about it. Even did a dance to a song about being a lamb and devotion to some insane middle eastern bastard. I was not pleased. He obviously still didn't really grasp any of it and was more proud of his coloring book work than anything (including xmas baby jesus, the ark, etc).

It is so scary to see what these people do and actually believe in. I felt terrible for the older kids that actually thought the stuff they were learning was part of reality because they have been taught about it for so long. It's because they have the kids do activities from a very young age and all of the activities are lined with myths, but presented as fact.

7/31/2014 11:13:39 AM

in my experience at VBS, the bible stories that are taught have little to do with the bible and are mostly versions that have been filtered through hollywood and popular culture a few times first.

7/31/2014 11:16:34 AM

Quote :

"This is pretty simple man."

you're right: one example (mine or yours) does not define the issue as a whole...the problem is that you haven't gotten that, yet

Quote :

"I know I'm repeating myself, but the core tenet of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of god and was sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life (The Gospel of John 3:16)."

change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind

Quote :

"I feel safe in saying that the vast majority of christian churches believe that"

yes, i'm sure they do...your mistake is the assumption that it's all so hardline, so black and white, to all churches...it's not

Quote :

"that and the other myths surrounding the bible are taught as truth at VBS to young kids."

depends on the church...if you mean "taught" in that they're exposed to the stories in the bible as something to learn a lesson from, yes...if you mean that they're threatened with an eternity burning in hellfire if they don't believe it, no

Quote :

"yes, I realize that kids have fun at VBS and it's a free daycare. I had fun at VBS. But there is a religious component to it that teaches a specific religion as truth to the kids. Sounds like you're using your example of "They had a pastor come to mine who said there was no hell" to make generalizations about all VBS (although I'm still sure that guy told you that jesus was god's son and was sent here to die for your sins)."

nope...go back to the thread, many people claimed their VBS was more like free daycare during the summer with a SMALL component of religion, rather than the other way around...how you can still use 15 minutes of bible storytime (told as if it's just a regular story, not beaten into the children as inalienable truth) as "indoctrination", i don't understand

i'm simply suggesting that you might be a TAD biased toward condescension with very little exposure to draw upon...we all like to think our parochial view of the world is the right one, so i understand your frustration

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2014 11:18:09 AM

Quote :

"the bible stories that are taught have little to do with the bible and are mostly versions that have been filtered through hollywood and popular culture a few times first."

I dare so they majority of bible followers believe in the hollywood type version vs the actual middle eastern version

I wish they published it with the hebrew names so more "super-american-jesus-is-from-texas" people could see how foreign and ridiculous it is

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:21 AM. Reason : qweqwewqe]

7/31/2014 11:20:04 AM

Quote :

"I dare so they majority of bible followers believe in the hollywood type version vs the actual middle eastern version"

that's probably true...religion (overall) is received so well because we all look for an explanation for things we don't understand...the hollywood version does just as well as the historic one

7/31/2014 11:21:48 AM

Alright, we disagree man. It's kinda funny that you think you're so right. But I stand by my statement: Teaching young impressionable kids that a specific religion and god is real is indoctrination. It's cool that they eat good food and have fun making arts and crafts with their friends, but the bible and church part of it is indoctrination.

Quote :

"change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind"

I'm really having trouble following your thinking. I'm pretty sure if you told most atheists (or anybody, for that matter) that a powerful being sent an alien to earth to die for man's sins and if you believe that the alien is your savior, you'll go to heaven", they'd think that was a ridiculous lie.

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:24 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2014 11:23:33 AM

Yeah, that is Scientologists, not atheists, who would buy that.

7/31/2014 11:26:31 AM

Quote :

"change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind"

And this is where we jumped the shark

7/31/2014 11:27:21 AM

Quote :

"Alright, we disagree man. It's kinda funny that you think you're so right."

no, i think i'm erring on the side of not being a condescending asshole to an entire group of people based on my limited experience and understanding

actually, you're correct in saying that i think that particular view is better than yours

Quote :

"But I stand by my statement: Teaching young impressionable kids that a specific religion and god is real is indoctrination. It's cool that they eat good food and have fun making arts and crafts with their friend, but the bible and church part of it is indoctrination."

be definition, it has to fit certain criteria...if they're allowed to question it, it's not actually indoctrination...and my point is that not all churches (or religions) are the same, so your blanket statements are very naive

Quote :

"I'm really having trouble following your thinking. I'm pretty sure if you told most atheists (or anybody, for that matter) that a powerful being sent an alien to earth to die for man's sins and if you believe that the alien is your savior, you'll go to heaven", they'd think that was ridiculous."

agreed...i suppose i thought it went more like this:

"a powerful being sent another to earth to tell them they'd be much happier and the world would be a better place if they'd just stop being such dicks to each other"

i have a hard time believing that other life would care what happens on our tiny planet, but that's part of the religion, the belief that something out there cares about us

Quote :

"And this is where we jumped the shark"

in a thread about religion, you think aliens are the crazy thing? i guess you don't subscribe to science and the odds that life exists someplace other than our planet

i didn't say that's what happened, either

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:32 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2014 11:30:33 AM

Quote :

" Quote : "I know I'm repeating myself, but the core tenet of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of god and was sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life (The Gospel of John 3:16)." change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind"

so:
you think that "aliens are the son of more powerful beings and were sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life" is acceptable to athiests? because... what? no, athiests don't believe that.

7/31/2014 11:30:42 AM

FTFY

Quote :

"change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it shows how insane religion is"

7/31/2014 11:31:38 AM

^

7/31/2014 11:32:09 AM

Quote :

"you think that "aliens are the son of more powerful beings and were sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life" is acceptable to athiests? because... what? no, athiests don't believe that."

reading comprehension, yo...i didn't say atheists believe that, i implied that atheists are more willing to accept something based on science than religion...which makes sense, and i agree with

i don't believe in "miracles" because i think that everything has an explanation...what i concede is that we don't always know or understand that explanation and that some people find comfort in that lack of knowledge through religion

7/31/2014 11:34:59 AM

the fact that you think it's science to say "aliens were sent by a more powerful being" highlights how badly religion has led you astray

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2014 11:36:40 AM

Quote :

"accept something based on science"

This science you speak so much of...did you learn about it from the X-Files?

7/31/2014 11:38:04 AM

Jesus and God in sandals = religion
Jesus and God in spaceships = science

7/31/2014 11:41:49 AM

Quote :

"the fact that you think it's science to say "aliens were sent by a more powerful being" highlights how badly religion has led you astray"

belief in the possibility of more advanced life within the ENTIRE UNIVERSE isn't in any way based on science? yikes.

Quote :

"This science you speak so much of...did you learn about it from the X-Files?"

don't be ridiculous

7/31/2014 12:04:23 PM

Quote :

"belief in the possibility of more advanced life within the ENTIRE UNIVERSE isn't in any way based on science? yikes."

the fact that you still can't figure out what's wrong with your statement is even more evidence that religion has totally warped your mind.

you said:

Quote :

"change "jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind"

the existence of other life in the universe is one thing, it being there because of a "more powerful being" (and per the analogy that more powerful being giving salvation) is another thing. and that other thing is religion. and that other thing is silly.

7/31/2014 12:17:33 PM

^ you're right, i don't get your point at all...are you taking issue with the notion that if there is other life in the universe, they can't be more powerful than us?

please, explain it to me, dude who says he can be a christian without believing in god or jesus...i value your views because they're so logical

7/31/2014 12:21:18 PM

Wow, this is actually amazing to me

7/31/2014 12:22:18 PM

i just don't get your point and you can't manage to explain it

i didn't suggest that one could take the entire bible, do a search-and-replace of "god" and "jesus" with "alien" and that it was suddenly correct in the eyes of non-religious people

i did, however, suggest that if you take the mysticism out of religion (christianity, in this case) and replace it with more widely-held beliefs (that there are other beings in the universe and they could potentially be more advanced than us), it becomes more palatable to non-religious people

i assume you're doing that thing where you're being intentionally obtuse in order to (try to) make a point and hoping that everyone else is dumb enough or as poor a reader as you are to fall for it...it's the only explanation, because you most certainly should know better

7/31/2014 12:28:19 PM

this is a really fun debate and all

but comparing something of which there's not a single shred of physical evidence in the history of the world to the testing and refining of scientific theories is ludicrous

7/31/2014 12:40:26 PM

^^i'm afraid it's you that's being obtuse or not doing a good job of explaining.

believing that there might be other life forms in the universe that may e more advanced than us is not the same as believing-in a man-made religion and the myths that surround them.

7/31/2014 12:41:46 PM

Bullet said:

Quote :

"I know I'm repeating myself, but the core tenet of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of god and was sent to earth to die for man's sins and anyone who accepts that will have everlasting life (The Gospel of John 3:16)."

quagmire02 said:

Quote :

"change "Jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" and it becomes more acceptable to atheists because now we're talking about the existence of other life out in the universe...different words for the same thing, in my mind"

this is not about a find and replace in the Bible, if you change "Jesus" to "alien" and "god" to "more powerful being" in just the quoted part Bullet's post or his entire post then it is not acceptable to atheists. atheists do not believe in a "more powerful being"

if you did not mean to equate "more powerful being" to god (i.e. if you don't know how analogies work) then your statement was entirely pointless and I'm not sure why you took the time to type it.

religion is not unacceptable to atheists because it talks about Jesus instead of aliens, its unacceptable to atheists because it is entirely faith based and not based on logic, it is not testable. atheists do not believe in any sort of "more powerful being" whether that more powerful being is God as described in the bible, the FSM, pleidian aliens, or anything else. a more powerful being is not the father of Jesus or aliens, it is not responsible for your salvation, it didn't create the universe.

Quote :

"i did, however, suggest that if you take the mysticism out of religion (christianity, in this case) and replace it with more widely-held beliefs (that there are other beings in the universe and they could potentially be more advanced than us), it becomes more palatable to non-religious people"

again you are demonstrating how badly religion has damaged you. it's impossible to take the mysticism out of God, God is entirely mystical.

Quote :

"please, explain it to me, dude who says he can be a christian without believing in god or jesus."

never once have I said this, because it is incorrect. i may have said that some people self identify as christians culturally even though they do not believe in God (even though they are not actually Christian), but I don't even remember saying that. I think that I have even explicitly said that I am not a Christian and know that I said that I have never tried to hold myself as any kind of example. If I did not say before that I am not a Christian I will now: I am not a Christian.


[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:01 PM. Reason : autocorrected]

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:18 PM. Reason : there, i un-autocorrected because apparently the point is impossible to understand otherwise]

7/31/2014 12:51:10 PM

^ how is it that you still don't know how to spell "atheist"?

7/31/2014 1:09:15 PM

quags, I know you enjoy logical arguments. You are getting a little loose with your reasoning here...

"... if you take the mysticism out of fairytales (tooth fairies, in this case) and replace it with more widely-held beliefs (that there are other beings in the universe and they could potentially be more into tooth collection than us), it becomes more palatable to non-fairytale believing people"


You know what, I could even argue in favor of the reasoning above... There very well could be other beings that are into collecting teeth, it does not mean it is then reasonable to believe in tooth fairies as presented in our fairytales. You can use this line of reasoning to assert that other beings validate a belief in absolutely anything. The logic and qualifiers are so loose that it simply isn't useful for any real argument, though. You can obscurely "prove" anything is possible this way - even if it is obviously untrue.

7/31/2014 1:09:33 PM

^^because at some point i must have inadvertently added it to the dictionary, so now it autocorrects to it

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM. Reason : hence why i wrote "autocorrected". athiest should be write though IMO because i before e]

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM. Reason : omg i wrote write not right, was it on purpose or accident? who knows?!]

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM. Reason : stop being so homophonic ]

7/31/2014 1:12:27 PM

Quote :

"but comparing something of which there's not a single shred of physical evidence in the history of the world to the testing and refining of scientific theories is ludicrous"

fortunately, that's not what's going on here

despite the fact that many of you - in order to have any point whatsoever - choose to take it farther, my point this entire time is that being condescending to a large group of people simply because you disagree makes you no better than when individuals from that same group judge you for not believing as you do

it's incredibly simple: you're a dick and they're dicks...but not everyone in each group is a dick

i should have known that someone, in lieu of any other argument, would take some comment made off-hand (that in both groups you have people who don't understand something and tackle that lack of knowledge in different ways) and pretend like that was my point or that i automatically side with one or the other

again, not the case...science certainly accomplishes more in some respects, but to say that what the religious accomplish (peace of mind, a sense of being, happiness) is worthless is just...pathetic

Quote :

"i'm afraid it's you that's being obtuse or not doing a good job of explaining. believing that there might be other life forms in the universe that may e more advanced than us is not the same as believing-in a man-made religion and the myths that surround them."

you're right, i must not be doing a good job of explaining it if that's what you get from all of this...of course, there's also the possibility that you choose not to consider (or are incapable of considering) anything past your narrow and shallow viewpoint

i have already said, multiple times, that man "made" religion to explain or simplify concepts or occurrences that they don't understand...saying there is a god in a volcano that is making it erupt because it's pissed off isn't correct, but it doesn't change the fact that the volcano blew up

we don't know the truth of everything, so until we do, being a condescending dickhole to those who don't subscribe to your particular version doesn't make you a better person

Quote :

"again you are demonstrating how badly religion has damaged you. it's impossible to take the mysticism out of God, God is entirely mythical."

you continue to intentionally miss my point...your response assumes i suggested a find-and-replace (no matter how many times you say otherwise)...because my point is that the BASIC belief in god can be largely explained as a powerful being that has the ability to interact with us in a way we don't understand

i'm not sure how much clearer i can get that, but i don't think it's going to help you

Quote :

"never once have I said this, because it is incorrect. i may have said that some people self identify as christians culturally even though they do not believe in God (even though they are not actually Christian), but I don't even remember saying that. I think that I have even explictly said that I am not a Christian and know that I said that I have never tried to hold myself as any kind of example. If I did not say before that I am not a Christian I will now: I am not a Christian."

did you forget when you said this little gem?

Quote :

"maybe I would still consider myself a Christian if it weren't for other Christians"

how is it that you can rationalize that statement while at the same time claiming to be an atheist? do you not understand how the religion works? hint: it has very little to do with the other christians and everything to do with belief in god and jesus (among other things)

Quote :

"quags, I know you enjoy logical arguments. You are getting a little loose with your reasoning here... "... if you take the mysticism out of fairytales (tooth fairies, in this case) and replace it with more widely-held beliefs (that there are other beings in the universe and they could potentially be more into tooth collection than us), it becomes more palatable to non-fairytale believing people" You know what, I could even argue in favor of the reasoning above... There very well could be other beings that are into collecting teeth, it does not mean it is then reasonable to believe in tooth fairies as presented in our fairytales. You can use this line of reasoning to assert that other beings validate a belief in absolutely anything. The logic and qualifiers are so loose that it simply isn't useful for any real argument, though. You can obscurely "prove" anything is possible this way - even if it is obviously untrue."

your point is wholly valid...the mistake i made was failing to recognize that this is TWW and my off-hand comment would undoubtedly become the focus of the argument and my point* would be lost

*that atheists aren't "right" either, they just have a different opinion...and being a dickbag to those with a different opinion makes you (the global "you") an even bigger dickbag

okay, that's a lot of words and i'm sure i made some mistakes in there, so go ahead and latch onto those...i'm going to bow out now because if you can't convince someone that they should just consider being less condescending of others with different views, there's no point in saying it over and over again i'm clearly wrong, atheists have the world figured out and are superior in every way, well-deserving of the fine view from atop their high horses

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:31 PM. Reason : *]

7/31/2014 1:30:36 PM

What? Religion is myths. Teaching little kids that a specific myth and a specific god is real is indoctrination.

(Do you not realize you're lumping all atheists together, although you seem very intent on making it clear that it's wrong to lump all christians together? Dick move man, dick move.)


[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:38 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2014 1:37:21 PM

I said:

Quote :

"never once have I said this, because it is incorrect. i may have said that some people self identify as christians culturally even though they do not believe in God (even though they are not actually Christian), but I don't even remember saying that. I think that I have even explictly said that I am not a Christian and know that I said that I have never tried to hold myself as any kind of example. If I did not say before that I am not a Christian I will now: I am not a Christian."

quagmire02 said:

Quote :

"did you forget when you said this little gem?"

then quoted where I said:

Quote :

"Christ's message was all about love and acceptance but too many Christians have turned it into a message of judgement, hate, and Republicans. Jesus was pretty awesome, I like what he did, but I don't like Christians or the church. I still doubt that I would have believed in God, but maybe, and maybe I would still consider myself a Christian if it weren't for other Christians. (in a way i guess i should thank them) try to be less of an idiot"

then quagmire added:

Quote :

"how is it that you can rationalize that statement while at the same time claiming to be an atheist? do you not understand how the religion works? hint: it has very little to do with the other christians and everything to do with belief in god and jesus (among other things)"

1. Lol, you just tried to call me out for what, lying about saying I'm not a Christian? And you tried to do it by posting a quote where I stated that I am no longer a Christian. That is lol-worthy.

2. How can I be an athiest? Simple, I don't believe in God. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. I don't believe that Jesus was resurrected or that believing in him will save me. Thankfully it was Christians who caused me to not be a Christian or believe in God.

this is pretty entertaining for me, i'm pretty amazed at how much trouble you are having with this

[Edited on July 31, 2014 at 1:54 PM. Reason : autocorrected again, whatevs]

7/31/2014 1:53:38 PM