Housing bubble was private loans. STUDENT LOANS ARE GOVERNMENT LOANS...ARE YOU STUPID.

1/11/2015 7:33:44 PM

Quote :

" Even paying the low costs of community college tuition ensures in some small amount that the people that are there actually want to be there, because they're paying for it."

They still have to pass their classes and stuff to keep the money rolling in.

OTOH, I know Georgia has some type of free college, but last I heard, it's not really a resounding success, but I don't know much about the program.

[Edited on January 11, 2015 at 10:04 PM. Reason : ]

1/11/2015 10:02:24 PM

^^ That doesn't matter. The economics are identical. Furthermore, 0% gov't loans would also increase the demand for private student loans, so your already absurd distinction between the two is even more pointless.

Even worse, 0% loans would be absurd, as you'd be guaranteed to lose the gov't money, in addition to inflating the bubble. Do a little research, figure out what a bubble is, and stop arguing against universally accepted economic principles. If you make the price of something zero, you will have a bubble, pure and simple.

1/11/2015 10:20:09 PM

Quote :

"2.5 seems kinda low"

agreed...i'd rather see 3.0...i don't want to give "free" college to everyone who doesn't have anything better to do, and a 2.5 is pretty easy to maintain if you just show up now and then

Quote :

"0% interest on student loan debt plz"

i agree with this, as well...for me, education is in a gray area between a privilege and a right, and interest-free loans with reasonable pay-back schedules would go a long way from my point of view

Quote :

"Even worse, 0% loans would be absurd, as you'd be guaranteed to lose the gov't money, in addition to inflating the bubble."

fwiw, in my limited view of economics, i'm envisioning additional taxpayer support (or support from the lottery, whatever) to subsidize the loans...so i would hope for a break-even rather than a losing venture

i don't claim to be an economist, though...and besides, just because something is a losing venture doesn't mean it isn't worth doing

[Edited on January 12, 2015 at 9:34 AM. Reason : .]

1/12/2015 9:31:45 AM

Quote :

"That doesn't matter. The economics are identical. Furthermore, 0% gov't loans would also increase the demand for private student loans, so your already absurd distinction between the two is even more pointless."

Huh..what?

1/12/2015 9:40:31 AM

The FEE is about as far-libertarian as they come, but which of these do you disagree with:

• Incoming college students will be able to borrow money at a lower interest rate than today’s students.
• Lower interest rates will lower students’ upfront borrowing costs.
• Lower borrowing costs will increase demand for spots at colleges and universities.
• Increased student demand will cause tuition to increase faster than inflation, as it has for decades.
• Higher tuitions will increase salaries for college faculty and staff and spark new building contracts on-campus.
• Higher tuitions will also cause borrowers to spend beyond the maximum amount of their federal loans (now $20,500 annually).
• Higher-education special interests will lobby for a higher maximum loan amount.
• Increased borrowing will cause student loan interest rates to rise to meet higher demand.
• Student loan debt will increase.
• Higher-education special interests will lobby to lower student loan interest rates.
http://fee.org/blog/detail/the-seen-and-unseen-of-federal-student-loans

1/12/2015 9:57:57 AM

All valid points, and things I've already seen happening. Now throw in "free" college tuition and you don't think the same stuff will happen at the Community College level? The only difference is "We" the taxpayers will be footing the bill.

There is no such thing as free, unless you steal it.

[Edited on January 12, 2015 at 10:05 AM. Reason : .]

1/12/2015 10:05:15 AM

are you saying that 0% interest and free tuition are the same thing or that they have the same economic impacts?

1/12/2015 10:07:39 AM

They will have a similar impact in my opinion.

But since 0% benefits me more than paying higher taxes to pay for some schmucks free barber license, I want 0% NOW.



[Edited on January 12, 2015 at 10:19 AM. Reason : I'm not republican, I vote for my own self interests.]

1/12/2015 10:12:55 AM

The only thing short of making the current loan system a goddam fullblown ponzi scheme is that each graduate isn't immediately setting up his own university upon graduation and charging new students a 100k to go to school on free obamacaresbailout cash

1/12/2015 10:19:50 AM

If you want to rake in cash hand over fist, start a for-profit University, or a non-profit *cough* hospital. 60 minutes had a really good show about Hospitals last night. How does a 1000% markup on a Tylenol pill sound?

[Edited on January 12, 2015 at 10:24 AM. Reason : .]

1/12/2015 10:23:13 AM

^But the ACA was supposed to reign in those costs, right?

Last time we took our daughter to the ER for respiratory issues (over the weekend, late at night no other alternative) we got a several thousand dollar bill. In the end all they gave her was a heavier dose of albutarol (sp?) and some steroids.

Hospital costs are never going to go down because America has proven that we're ok with this new inflated price floor, and it will be the same for college tuition. As long as banks are willing to loan money for any amount of tuition, and as long as Americans are willing to take out those loans, nothing is going to change, no matter what kind of legislation is put out there.

1/12/2015 11:56:57 AM

I went to Wake Tech for a time. The problem with it was not the cost, that easily fit on my ghetto ass Capital One Student Card. There were plenty of dumb things about the system that could easily be fixed.

1) The campus is far as fuck from anything else a student would live near, like a real college for example, only way to make it any farther would be to build it in another county...that really makes it affordable for students.

2) The schedule was fucking retarded. 50 MINUTE CLASSES that met 3 days a week. High Schools have longer classes than that. No broke ass student wants to drive 30 minutes each way for a 50 minute class. Sure you can possibly pack your calendar and save gas, but it would make more sense to have a decently long class period and take Fridays off or something to cut fuel costs by a THIRD. (especially since many college students work shitty service related jobs that need them more Friday-Sun)

3) Community Colleges cap class sizes at 30 students, but usually half of the people in each class stop coming by the second test, why not over book (you know like airlines and hotels do) so that when people do not show up (like you know they wont), the amount of students that are supposed to can finish the class.

4) Shitty Professors. WTCC may have improved in this area by now, but they had a bunch of instructors that could not have even survived teaching high school. Being an expert in a subject area is not the only thing required to teach it, you actually need some enthusiasm and communication skills.

It would make more sense to improve the CC system than make it free.

1/12/2015 12:34:12 PM

^

1.) i was going to say that doesn't apply to every CC everywhere...but when i think about the 3 i'm familiar with (durham, wake, and cape fear)

2.) i realize this is tied to point #1, but many (perhaps the majority) universities do 50-minute classes 3x per week

3.) because you can't do that...airlines can (and do) ask for volunteers to give up their seats when the flight is overbooked and everyone shows up...what are you going to do, ask students to leave the room? bring their own folding chair?

4.) my experience is exactly the opposite...i only took a couple of CC courses (and they were all in the summer), but i LOVED my instructors...they were great and i specifically took the classes at CC because i wanted the smaller class size in courses i knew i would want more individual attention in (like organic chem)

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

^

1.) i was going to say that doesn't apply to every CC everywhere...but when i think about the 3 i'm familiar with (durham, wake, and cape fear)

2.) i realize this is tied to point #1, but many (perhaps the majority) universities do 50-minute classes 3x per week

3.) because you can't do that...airlines can (and do) ask for volunteers to give up their seats when the flight is overbooked and everyone shows up...what are you going to do, ask students to leave the room? bring their own folding chair?

4.) my experience is exactly the opposite...i only took a couple of CC courses (and they were all in the summer), but i LOVED my instructors...they were great and i specifically took the classes at CC because i wanted the smaller class size in courses i knew i would want more individual attention in (like organic chem)

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

^

1.) i was going to say that doesn't apply to every CC everywhere...but when i think about the 3 i'm familiar with (durham, wake, and cape fear)

2.) i realize this is tied to point #1, but many (perhaps the majority) universities do 50-minute classes 3x per week

3.) because you can't do that...airlines can (and do) ask for volunteers to give up their seats when the flight is overbooked and everyone shows up...what are you going to do, ask students to leave the room? bring their own folding chair?

4.) my experience is exactly the opposite...i only took a couple of CC courses (and they were all in the summer), but i LOVED my instructors...they were great and i specifically took the classes at CC because i wanted the smaller class size in courses i knew i would want more individual attention in (like organic chem)

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

^

1.) i was going to say that doesn't apply to every CC everywhere...but when i think about the 3 i'm familiar with (durham, wake, and cape fear)

2.) i realize this is tied to point #1, but many (perhaps the majority) universities do 50-minute classes 3x per week

3.) because you can't do that...airlines can (and do) ask for volunteers to give up their seats when the flight is overbooked and everyone shows up...what are you going to do, ask students to leave the room? bring their own folding chair?

4.) my experience is exactly the opposite...i only took a couple of CC courses (and they were all in the summer), but i LOVED my instructors...they were great and i specifically took the classes at CC because i wanted the smaller class size in courses i knew i would want more individual attention in (like organic chem)

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

^

1.) i was going to say that doesn't apply to every CC everywhere...but when i think about the 3 i'm familiar with (durham, wake, and cape fear)

2.) i realize this is tied to point #1, but many (perhaps the majority) universities do 50-minute classes 3x per week

3.) because you can't do that...airlines can (and do) ask for volunteers to give up their seats when the flight is overbooked and everyone shows up...what are you going to do, ask students to leave the room? bring their own folding chair?

4.) my experience is exactly the opposite...i only took a couple of CC courses (and they were all in the summer), but i LOVED my instructors...they were great and i specifically took the classes at CC because i wanted the smaller class size in courses i knew i would want more individual attention in (like organic chem)

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

hey, for once that wasn't intentional

Quote :

"It would make more sense to improve the CC system TWW than make it free."

[Edited on January 12, 2015 at 1:02 PM. Reason : oops]

1/12/2015 1:02:04 PM

are you constantly posting from a dial-up connection or something? geez

1/12/2015 1:05:26 PM

CLOSE

1/12/2015 1:09:39 PM

Quote :

"As long as banks are willing to loan money for any amount of tuition, and as long as Americans are willing to take out those loans, nothing is going to change, no matter what kind of legislation is put out there."

Actually, there is an incredibly simple piece of legislation that would fix what you describe almost immediately: allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy. Bam, problem solved. Banks actually return to having lending standards for student loans, which means the "free money" (as financially ignorant kids just out of high school see it) ends, putting actual DOWNWARD pressure on college costs for the first time in almost half a century.

1/13/2015 12:15:42 AM