Quote :

"Tulsi Gabbard ? Verified account @TulsiGabbard 4m4 minutes ago More The people of Syria desperately want to live in peace & do not want their country to be taken over by genocidal terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS. If we are truly concerned about the suffering of the Syrian people & bringing about peace & stability ... (1/2)"

Quote :

"... so refugees can return home & begin to rebuild their lives, then we should work for peace, end our policy of interventionist regime change wars and stop trying to be the policeman of the world. (2/2)"

4/13/2018 11:15:50 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/377038618407493632

Quote :

"Donald J. Trump ? Don't attack Syria - an attack that will bring nothing but trouble for the U.S. Focus on making our country strong and great again! 9 Sep 2013"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/378389940671107072

Quote :

"Donald J. Trump We should stop talking, stay out of Syria and other countries that hate us, rebuild our own country and make it strong and great again-USA! 12 Sep 2013"

4/13/2018 11:49:54 PM

OPCW announced yesterday that they would begin their investigation tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/opcw/status/984491473629601795?s=21

Should have been all over the news yesterday, but it wasn’t. And they chose today to begin lobbing bombs.

Weird!

4/14/2018 12:01:13 AM

that twitter account should’ve led the news and is now lobbing bombs?

[Edited on April 14, 2018 at 12:59 AM. Reason : that where we’re at?]

4/14/2018 12:57:53 AM

...what? do you not know who OPCW is? and clearly i meant the US when i said “they”

[Edited on April 14, 2018 at 1:16 AM. Reason : .]

4/14/2018 1:12:46 AM

thanks obama

4/14/2018 5:54:52 AM

More like thanks decades long degradation of Congress and it’s role as a check on the Executive.

Also, he literally went there with a “Missioned Accomplished.”

4/14/2018 8:42:33 AM

1.4 million per jassm

could have saved a few million people from famine with the cost of this strike.

4/14/2018 12:55:57 PM

the US "defense" budget, more like offense, is over $2k/person/year

4/14/2018 7:25:32 PM

Reminds me of this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?utm_term=.947b5c88cff2

Quote :

"The Pentagon has buried an internal study that exposed $125 billion in administrative waste in its business operations amid fears Congress would use the findings as an excuse to slash the defense budget, according to interviews and confidential memos obtained by The Washington Post. Pentagon leaders had requested the study to help make their enormous back-office bureaucracy more efficient and reinvest any savings in combat power. But after the project documented far more wasteful spending than expected, senior defense officials moved swiftly to kill it by discrediting and suppressing the results. The report, issued in January 2015, identified “a clear path” for the Defense Department to save $125 billion over five years. The plan would not have required layoffs of civil servants or reductions in military personnel. Instead, it would have streamlined the bureaucracy through attrition and early retirements, curtailed high-priced contractors and made better use of information technology."

http://dbb.defense.gov/Portals/35/Documents/Meetings/2015/2015-01/DBB%20MINUTES%2020150122.pdf


[Edited on April 14, 2018 at 8:07 PM. Reason : picture too big]

4/14/2018 8:07:09 PM

^
Corrupt to the core.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-audit-army/u-s-army-fudged-its-accounts-by-trillions-of-dollars-auditor-finds-idUSKCN10U1IG

Quote :

"The Defense Department’s Inspector General, in a June report, said the Army made $2.8 trillion in wrongful adjustments to accounting entries in one quarter alone in 2015, and $6.5 trillion for the year. Yet the Army lacked receipts and invoices to support those numbers or simply made them up. "

Quote :

"The report affirms a 2013 Reuters series revealing how the Defense Department falsified accounting on a large scale as it scrambled to close its books. As a result, there has been no way to know how the Defense Department – far and away the biggest chunk of Congress’ annual budget – spends the public’s money. "

Quote :

"DFAS also could not make accurate year-end Army financial statements because more than 16,000 financial data files had vanished from its computer system. Faulty computer programming and employees’ inability to detect the flaw were at fault, the IG said. DFAS is studying the report “and has no comment at this time,” a spokesman said. "

4/14/2018 9:54:52 PM

No wonder we spend so much money if it takes more than 100 missiles to take out less than 10 buildings. We are getting ripped off big time.

4/15/2018 4:11:00 AM

tend to agree with you, though i wonder if part of the reason we sent so many was because russia was threatening to shoot them down and also it's possible they wanted enough firepower to ensure complete destruction of any loose agent

but yea, it's still absurd, aren't those things 1 million a pop?

4/15/2018 12:17:16 PM

or they are lying about none being shot down. russia claims 71 were shot down and the damage looks more believable for 29 missiles. then again, half as many only vlosed thst airbase for 3 days last year. i bet the missiles are just shitty power, lomg range, hard to defend, and the comapnies beef up the government contracts to get 10x value like most government contractors. this makes me wonder if our entire military is the same sort of scam.

4/15/2018 12:37:45 PM

Nah, JASSMs are actually pretty advanced and well worth it. They don't have that much NEW, but they're range makes them worth it.

Glad to know you're such an expert on munitions though

4/15/2018 1:50:01 PM

this has been making the rounds.

it is a clip from cnn where the anchorwoman interviews a syrian who is very happy about the strikes on syria and is thanking trump and calling for more strikes.

thousands of trumpets have commented, of course, saying trump made the right choice.

https://www.facebook.com/derekmke/videos/599007993778650

4/16/2018 12:28:38 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/russia-claims-syria-air-defences-shot-down-majority-missiles
the more i think about it...100 cannon balls could have done more damage. i'm leaning with the russian claims of a thwarted attack.

btw. there was just another alleged attack that they claim to have thwarted as well. MSM has blacked it out.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/syrian-state-tv-says-missile-attack-on-air-base-thwarted-1.6009200

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/update-syrian-state-media-reports-9-israeli-missiles-intercepted/

4/16/2018 10:24:40 PM

^ just like any of the hundreds of other incidents around the world, we will never know the truth.

4/17/2018 1:51:14 AM

Robert Fisk visited Douma, talked with locals, and doubts there was a gas attack at all.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

4/18/2018 2:35:52 PM

a journalist in a syrian military convoy finds that no people want to talk about gas attacks? shocker of the century!

4/18/2018 2:46:12 PM

Quote :

"I walked across this town quite freely yesterday without soldier, policeman or minder to haunt my footsteps, just two Syrian friends, a camera and a notebook."

Quote :

"I first drove into Douma as part of an escorted convoy of journalists. But once a boring general had announced outside a wrecked council house “I have no information” – that most helpful rubbish-dump of Arab officialdom – I just walked away. Several other reporters, mostly Syrian, did the same. Even a group of Russian journalists – all in military attire – drifted off."

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2018 2:48:38 PM

the military picked the where and when, and i'm sure the residents knew this was a group with the syrian army

4/18/2018 2:57:38 PM

man, he's been an on-the-ground war reporter for 40 years, and walked the town with two syrian friends. do you think they wouldn't have caught on to 20+ people with coached stories? he had conversations with these people.

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2018 3:12:48 PM

and some of those people said they were never true, but conclusive evidence exists that chemical weapons have been used in the past

he seems to be basing his opinion on a doctor who wasn't a witness (and says that the people who were there at the time were in damascas giving evidence to a chemical weapons enquiry) but who did say the videos are real (and the videos show people suffering from more than hypoxia, and in any case dust doesn't cause widespread hypoxia among otherwise healthy people)

4/18/2018 3:36:57 PM

The doctor wasn't a direct witness, but he treated victims. And heavy dust can definitely cause hypoxia. This happened in Syria in 2015:

Quote :

"A dust storm swept across the Middle East, killing at least five people and sending numerous others to hospitals with breathing difficulties, reports the Associated Press."

https://weather.com/news/news/severe-middle-east-sandstorm-dust-storm-jordan-israel-lebanon-syria-iraq

4/18/2018 3:58:32 PM

Multiple eye witness accounts (as reported in various media) suggest that military aircraft were operating in the area on that night. Do you think you can fly a jet through sandstorms that are capable of suffocating people?

Also ask yourself - How is it that Fisk couldn't find anyone willing to claim a chemical attack occurred while AP and CBSNews both had reporters in the same media group and were able to cite multiple people both at the site and at the location they evacuated to, all with similar stories of the attack:

https://apnews.com/93e36f8d50f34687afc97f61fee407cf
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-inside-douma-the-site-of-apparent-chemical-attack-2018-04-16/

Finally, you should really review Fisk's previous work in Syria. I'm not gonna call Fisk a liar and an Assad homer (its way more complicated than that), but his previous work reveals a trend of taking positions sympathetic to Assad, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME:

The massacre in Daraya?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-inside-daraya-how-a-failed-prisoner-swap-turned-into-a-massacre-8084727.html
guyz, it was just a failed prisoner swap and the fog of war
(totally debunked here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/07/syria-daraya-massacre-ghost-town)

Here he is suggesting that Obama is fighting for Al-Qaeda if he responded to one of the 2013 chemical attacks:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-obama-know-he-s-fighting-on-al-qa-ida-s-side-8786680.html

Here he is regurgitating Russia's bizarre claims on that same attack:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/gas-missiles-were-not-sold-to-syria-8831792.html

Here he is claiming there is no way a British Dr could have been killed by regime forces in a syrian Prison, it just doesnt make sense:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-sad-and-puzzling-story-of-abbas-khan-the-british-doctor-found-dead-in-syrian-jail-9010993.html

Here he is basically sucking some Syrian General's dick:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-war-aleppo-exclusive-top-syrian-general-robert-fisk-tougher-tacts-a7442161.html

and on and on it goes. The trend is clear, IMO, the guy refuses to criticize Assad or Russia.

4/18/2018 6:04:47 PM

Quote :

"Multiple eye witness accounts (as reported in various media) suggest that military aircraft were operating in the area on that night. Do you think you can fly a jet through sandstorms that are capable of suffocating people?"

The explanation here was wind combined with dust from shelling:

Quote :

"I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night – but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived."

Quote :

"Also ask yourself - How is it that Fisk couldn't find anyone willing to claim a chemical attack occurred while AP and CBSNews both had reporters in the same media group and were able to cite multiple people both at the site and at the location they evacuated to, all with similar stories of the attack:"

The AP article cites two people in a rebel-held area outside of Douma. The CBS article cites one anonymous person who said it smelled like chlorine. Fisk only interviewed people inside Douma so I don't think the articles contradict each other.

The funny thing is, the people AP interviewed in Douma blamed the Army of Islam, same as in Fisk's article.

If anything, this shows what a fucking mess Syrian civilians are stuck in the middle of. Russian-backed government thugs vs. US-backed Islamist extremists.

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2018 6:36:55 PM

there was also evidence in the video that the attack was not from above because of the way things exploded

4/18/2018 7:02:40 PM

Quote :

" The explanation here was wind combined with dust from shelling:"

Assad forces had been shelling the area for days. You’re telling me that on this particular night the wind kicked up enough to force enough sand into underground bunkers (and apparently multiple levels above the basement too)to suffocate people

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 7:41 PM. Reason : Oh I see, you mean they blamed the rebels for the chemical attack narrative, not THE attack]

4/18/2018 7:14:42 PM

Breathing problems is not the same as hypoxia, the people in the video were not suffering from dust

4/18/2018 7:18:22 PM

Quote :

"Assad forces had been shelling the area for days. You’re telling me that on this particular night the wind kicked up enough to force enough sand into underground bunkers (and apparently multiple levels above the basement too)to suffocate people"

Why not? Just yesterday this happened here in Denver:

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/04/17/denver-wind-photos-video/

Quote :

"Oh I see, you mean they blamed the rebels for the chemical attack narrative, not THE attack"

Yeah, in Fisks's article, they blamed the rebels for making the attacks up (among other things). In the AP article, they blamed them for the attack itself.

Quote :

"Breathing problems is not the same as hypoxia, the people in the video were not suffering from dust"

Hypoxia is oxygen deficiency which can lead to organ failure, which can happen with substantial amounts of dust in the air.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon#Military_use

I'm not saying this is definitely what happened, just giving alternatives to the war machine narrative.

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 7:56 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2018 7:55:37 PM

And now the OPCW team has been attacked by “unknown” sniper fire.

Quote :

" TerdFerguson All American 5650 Posts user info edit post Quote : "but russia wants others to come check:" They’re just gonna claim the area isn’t safe enough for inspectors (potentially actually true). Inspectors will be able to verify the cause of death from autopsies, samples, and survivor symptoms, but blame, especially without near immediate access to the site, will always be difficult. This is exactly what they did in the previous attack last year and both those Syrian chemical attacks in 2013. My mind remains open, But fool me once, shame on you blah blah blah 4/10/2018 9:39:51 PM"

4/18/2018 8:17:33 PM

Not the OPCW team, the UNDSS (UN security team), who wants to approve the site first.

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-update-on-the-deployment-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-to-douma-syria/

4/18/2018 8:25:58 PM

Lol

Guys Assad didn't use chlorine he used thermobaric weapons!

Stop being such a stooge and think critically

[Edited on April 18, 2018 at 9:54 PM. Reason : And no, dust doesn't cause hypoxia in otherwise healthy people ]

4/18/2018 9:53:27 PM

i'm curious, do you think the US response was justified either way?

4/18/2018 10:19:14 PM

dtownral is going to toe the line regardless of what happens. honestly, what would have to happen for you to reject the prevailing messaging of MSM?

4/18/2018 11:20:01 PM

i haven't read enough about the targets, but if it's true that they were r&d facilities for chemical weapons that were warned in advance and were mostly vacant and other facilities that may have had chemical weapons but were in denser areas were avoided i think they were probably justified.

the french report is sensible, the use of chemical weapons makes sense strategically, no one seems to be disputing the authenticity of the video which clearly shows more than just trouble breathing from dust, eyewitness reports support the use of chemical weapons, etc...

i'm not in favor of getting involved in syria, or trying to decide which rebel group to arm, etc... but the arguments and information used to try to show that chemical weapons weren't used are all so clearly from active disinformation campaigns



[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 9:38 AM. Reason : .]

4/19/2018 9:31:14 AM

I don't understand why everyone is ok with Assad using conventional weapons to kill his own people, but we draw the line with chemical weapons.

Conventional bombs cause horrible burns, can maim people just as well as any chemical weapon, cause all kinds of bodily injuries from rubble and shrapnel. So we're gonna let him bomb the ever lovin hell out of his people with regular ordinance, but God forbid he use chemical weapons.

To be clear, I'm not calling for intervention on the basis of him using conventional weapons. I'm just asking why we need to get involved at all.

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 10:05 AM. Reason : asa]

4/19/2018 10:04:15 AM

a lot of it has to do with their psychological impact. a lot has to do with a sense of humanity. some of it has to do with honorable warfare.

Also this: https://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-world-banned-chemical-weapons/

4/19/2018 10:23:03 AM

That was a good but unfortunate read.

4/19/2018 11:04:30 AM

It's all bullshit. We dropped 20,000 bombs on Raqqa alone last year, killing 1,400 civilians and rendering almost the entire city uninhabitable. In total 2,900 civilians killed by air strikes in 2017 (at least). So why play up this measly instance of ~100 bombs, if not to boost public support for for the war?

Quote :

"The defence secretary, James Mattis, and other officials started calling the campaign against Isis a “war of annihilation” and that is how it was conducted, even in densely packed cities, where the average munition used was a huge 500lb bomb. "

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/23/us-air-wars-trump

There are 2,000+ US troops deployed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/12/06/there-are-four-times-as-many-u-s-troops-in-syria-as-previously-acknowledged-by-the-pentagon/?utm_term=.f780df6f0779

And the US was already building two more bases before Trump said we were pulling out and the alleged chemical attack happened.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/syria-us-reportedly-building-2-bases-manbij

Meanwhile we're selling white phosophoros to Saudi Arabia to use in Yemen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/09/19/saudi-arabia-appears-to-be-using-u-s-supplied-white-phosphorus-in-its-war-in-yemen/?utm_term=.2c137fae7061

But it's definitely about the chemical weapons.

Seriously guys, after all the shit we've pulled over the last several decades, do you truly believe this?

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

4/19/2018 11:11:03 AM

i don't think most people disagree with that, we just aren't falling for russian disinformation denying the use of chemical weapons

4/19/2018 11:49:01 AM

as if the US and its allies (who btw are also committing atrocities) would never deceive you

US propaganda has you supporting bombings in Syria

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 11:57 AM. Reason : .]

4/19/2018 11:56:00 AM

chemical weapons being used in douma makes more sense than the thin stories presented to show they weren't, it's not propaganda just assuming that the simplest explanation is correct

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ty]

4/19/2018 12:00:11 PM

Whether or not the chemical attack happened the way the US said, the way the bombings were presented was blatant propaganda. We were never leaving, and sporadic chemical attacks don't warrant our actions in Syria to begin with.

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 12:08 PM. Reason : v ok i'll take it]

4/19/2018 12:04:40 PM

hence:

Quote :

"i don't think most people disagree with that, we just aren't falling for russian disinformation denying the use of chemical weapons"

4/19/2018 12:06:16 PM

From MH17 to Salisbury to Douma it’s crazy how all these false flags just happen to be setting up Russia. That’s why I only get my news from real sources like Sputnik or RT.

4/19/2018 12:42:02 PM

Is Robert Fisk a Russian plant now? Are there any anti-war advocates left who aren't being controlled by Russians?

Seriously weird how all of these prominent anti-imperialists are being outed as Russian agents!

[Edited on April 19, 2018 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2018 12:50:51 PM

no, just a guy with a russian-friendly history who went on a fact finding mission in a now russian-controlled area with a syrian guard who seemed to largely base his viewpoint on someone who wasn't an eyewitness who told him a story that differed from actual eyewitnesses and contradicts video evidence that he acknowledged was real

are you so desperate that you need to resort to straw man arguments?

4/19/2018 12:56:57 PM

I voiced my displeasure with the strikes in this very thread before they happened. I do not support imperialism. I can’t stand that we arm the Saudi’s and have contributed wildly to the current Yemen situation. I do not want war with Iran, Russia or any other power. I’ve criticized Bush, Obama and Trump for all of this.

Russia and Assad are still had actors with little evidence they should be given any benefit of the doubt.

4/19/2018 12:58:18 PM