They aren't reputable outlets to anyone outside of your leftist echo-chamber. Record low percentages of Americans trust the mainstream media.

Even with the deep state working with DNC propaganda arm NYT, using "anonymous sources", and Susan Rice unmasking citizens, we still haven't had any actual "damning information".

The amount of fake news headlines ITT that have been debunked is laughable.

5/19/2017 5:19:42 PM

Imagine how different this conversation would be if the media covered the DNC lawsuit. Its almost as if no one knows its going on. Hmmm.....

5/19/2017 7:00:58 PM

I didn't realize that the DNC, a private organization, violating it's corporate bylaws was equivalent to and equally deserving of coverage of possible treason and corruption involving an existential enemy of the United States and the President of the United States.

Also, no one at the DNC is denying blatant facts, such as the fact that the lawsuit exists. No reason to push story after story when the people involved actually acknowledge the truth.

You guys don't want the Russian investigation to be so ubiquitous? Tell your friends in the WH to stop lying about everything.

[Edited on May 20, 2017 at 12:08 AM. Reason : a]

5/20/2017 12:04:17 AM

Theres a difference between giving it equal coverage and blacking it out completely. I'm just asking for one segment or one article. Its a deliberate blackout. These so called news agencies don't report the news.

Also this

Quote :

"A newly released Politico/Morning Consult poll found only 29 percent of registered voters believed Russia was an “enemy” of the U.S., while 30 percent of voters said Russia was an “unfriendly nation.”"

Theres no reason to see Russia as an enemy. Russian hacks reveal that the DNC was fraudulent and democrats now see Russia as "an existential threat" while still supporting the DNC. Its funny how that works.

[Edited on May 20, 2017 at 12:14 AM. Reason : Its also funny how they have converted it to a lie that russia hacked "the election" ]

[Edited on May 20, 2017 at 12:14 AM. Reason : So if the DNC was the election then they also "stole the election" Which is it?]

5/20/2017 12:13:30 AM

holy shit you are retarded

5/20/2017 12:31:28 AM

Tbf, I hate when people say "hacked the election" and people do say it. Not in the context Earl is pushing but it's a dumb phrase.

5/20/2017 8:17:04 AM

Regarding this:

Quote :

"Theres a difference between giving it equal coverage and blacking it out completely."

I can sympathize with you here. I think the court has been in deliberations since like October and they may actually be determining shortly whether the case gets dismissed. If it's completely blacked out, that's a bit odd in my opinion as it should be regarded as genuine news, particularly since it's connected to the Russian stuff.

It may be that there hasn't been any news to report since they are still in deliberations. At the least, I'd prefer to see something on it in place of stories such as:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/19/politics/donald-trump-hug-philippe-reines-hillary-clinton/index.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710407-george-w-bush-photobombs-reporter-at-rangers-game?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710612-justin-bieber-dons-cavs-shorts-at-show-months-after-wearing-full-steph-curry-uni?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Quote :

"Theres no reason to see Russia as an enemy. Russian hacks reveal that the DNC was fraudulent and democrats now see Russia as "an existential threat" while still supporting the DNC. Its funny how that works."

There are about 3,357 reasons to see Russia as an enemy. While the hacks absolutely revealed the truth regarding the DNC, they didn't release a single thing from the RNC's side. Their intelligence services also flooded (and continue to do so) social media and some news outlets with outright lies. An example of where they continue to do this pertains to Seth Rich's murder. They are a nuclear nation, have invaded a sovereign nation, are allied with Iran and Syria and are currently ramping up their counter-US operations in Afghanistan. They assassinate journalists, political opponents and protesters.

Regarding the "hacked the election" phrase, I don't know who is saying that unless you're referring to average people who use that phrase as shorthand or just don't know what they're talking about. The election was not hacked and no reasonable person is claiming this, not US intelligence, not Democratic representatives and not Republican representatives. They did influence the election, arguably to the same extent that any news organization, political ad or debate did. They did not change vote tally counts or anything like that. We would already be at war had that happened.

Quite frankly, from a cultural standpoint, Russia should be a strong ally of ours. They want to be and behave to an extent as if they are European. The problem is they are run by a mafia. The Russian government is not the same as ours or really any other - it is run in the exact same manner as a mafia. And they have nukes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2016-04-18/russias-perpetual-geopolitics

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20081014_geopolitics_russia_permanent_struggle

We will likely be in conflict with them for quite a long time unless something occurs that completely eliminates their capacity to fight. dtownral likely disagrees with me here (imperalism, etc.) but it's simply a function of current human psychology, geography and physics.

A perfect example of this (and related to this) is how Russia ended up in Afghanistan in the 70s/80s.



[Edited on May 20, 2017 at 10:17 AM. Reason : a]

5/20/2017 10:02:35 AM

Quote :

"Why would the GOP not go for this? They would prefer Pence anyway. A polished politician who won't constantly make gaffes? Why not? Couldn't be any worse that the current situation, at least from the Republican perspective."

Some of the GOPers in Congress are true Trump believers.

Others come from districts where a sizable portion of the electorate still likes Trump, either because they don't believe the information they're getting (Fake news!) or they don't care how corrupt Trump is, as long as they think he'll bring back their overpaid jobs or save them from the Muslims or kick out all the Mexicans or whatever. Those representatives may not like Trump and may be happy to see him go, but they can't support it without risking a primary challenger or low turnout in the general.

Others hate Trump and have safe districts, but realize that a Trump impeachment will virtually guarantee a Democratic landslide in 2018 that will probably carry through into 2020. Hypothetical President Pence faces a lose-lose with ex-president Trump. If he pardons him, the electorate is outraged and gives him the Gerald Ford treatment. If he doesn't pardon him, the investigation drags on for years and sprays shit all over some top Republicans - including, possibly, Pence.

So yeah, I bet that a majority of the GOP and the politicians in particular would vastly prefer to see Pence as president, but they're not willing to do what it takes to make that happen. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

Quote :

"I'll dumb it down for you: follow the money."

No, I get how corruption works. What I don't understand is how Trump is any less corrupt by virtue of being an "outsider." Instead of being indebted to his political contributors (or rather, in addition to being indebted to his political contributors, because he hardly financed the whole campaign himself) he's indebted to business partners.

"Non-establishment" just means that his corruption has been coupled with gross incompetence as he stumbles from one failure to the next. Being outside the establishment means that Trump doesn't know how government works - not just the shady stuff that people think of when they say "establishment," but also the actual written rules, from the Constitution on down.

"Unprecedented" has no positive connotation whatsoever. Barack Obama was "unprecedented." The destruction of the human race through nuclear warfare would be "unprecedented." Natalie Portman's first full-frontal nude scene would be "unprecedented." Things that are without precedent can be great or awful or neutral. Anyone who casts a vote for a candidate because they are "unprecedented" is imbecile.

---

Quote :

"Theres no reason to see Russia as an enemy. Russian hacks reveal that the DNC was fraudulent and democrats now see Russia as "an existential threat" while still supporting the DNC."

Russia is a competitor and the relationship is adversarial. They are very much "an existential threat" because they have the ability to make us not exist anymore. All of these things are true whether or not Democrats were clearly aware of them before. I wish they'd been smart enough to recognize them before the hack, and think that Obama's soft handling of Putin was one of his (many) foreign policy failures. But if the hack is what it takes to make people realize what should be self-evident, oh well. Better than nothing.

5/20/2017 2:02:22 PM

Quote :

"I wish they'd been smart enough to recognize them before the hack, and think that Obama's soft handling of Putin was one of his (many) foreign policy failures."

I've struggled with this as I've thought the exact same thing, particularly with the Ukrainian invasion. But I wonder how limited he was with respect to Congressional support given that he campaigned on getting us out of war (Iraq/Afghanistan) and most people can't even tell you where Ukraine is. What they can tell you is they don't know about it, don't understand it and don't see a reason for American lives to be spent over it.

5/20/2017 4:50:54 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-africa-famine-un-warning-millions-starving-media-coverage-a7745931.html

Quote :

"Twenty million people around the world are starving to death and the United Nations said the world is only paying attention to the latest scandal of Donald Trump. “If you turn on ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CNN — it’s nothing but Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump!,” said the director of the UN’s World Food Programme (WFP). Director-General David Beasley, a former governor of South Carolina, said the famine affecting Yemen, South Sudan, Somalia, and Nigeria is “not fake news, this is reality.” "

5/21/2017 11:23:12 AM

^
https://youtu.be/2LuGzwNy2ws

5/21/2017 12:36:28 PM

The news will never report the people the United States are killing. That would go against the exceptionalist heroic nationalism that is the common thread even if they hate on republicans.

5/21/2017 1:54:56 PM

Quote :

"possible treason and corruption involving an existential enemy of the United States and the President of the United States."

I'm curious, at what point does the illegal leaking of classified information to harm the democratically elected POTUS turn into treason?

John "Spirit Cooking" Podesta falls for an obvious phishing email scam, and we are supposed to believe this was some Russia - Trump conspiracy, just because the politicized deep state (the same one that has been leaking anti trump info and spying on his team) says so?

5/21/2017 8:01:06 PM

Lol. Good one

5/21/2017 8:18:16 PM

I was at work all day and now it's time for hockey. How's it look for obstruction now?

6/8/2017 8:00:46 PM

Trump said publicly many times he fired Comey to affect the investigation. Seems pretty clear cut for obstruction.

6/8/2017 8:36:05 PM

Ain't gonna happen. GOP isn't going to impeach one of their own.

6/8/2017 10:58:25 PM

It's cute how any Democrat anywhere thinks there is even a .01% chance Paul Ryan would give up his college dream of cutting taxes for the rich on the backs of the poor just because of a little potential obstruction of justice.

[Edited on June 9, 2017 at 7:48 AM. Reason : Also, what would the charge be? If Bill didn't get convicted for perjury then..]

6/9/2017 7:47:29 AM

Comey's testimony was important, and good. My thoughts:

1) In my view, the probability that Trump directed or was aware of collusion with Russia actually went down after watching this testimony.

2) Trump absolutely tried to pressure Comey to get rid of the Russian stuff. That being said, no evidence exists to prove that (unless the "tapes" Trump mentioned actually exist). It's pretty much all circumstantial, though combined with Comey's actual firing, there may be something there that can be prosecuted. I thought Feinstein's first question drew one of the most important responses the entire time, when Comey responded that he believed (took the President at his word) that he was fired over the Russia investigation. Comey then said he supposed the President could have been lying when he said that, but he took everything to believe it was over the Russia investigation.

That's pretty important. In other words, the President committed obstruction or the President lied (again). Either one is serious.

3) So if we remove Trump (for the time being) from scope, we're looking at a more classic case of espionage activity with respect to Flynn, Stone, Kushner, Page, Manafort and Cohen. I'm still not sold on Page and Kushner, at the moment, appears to be a long shot to me. In any event, when I say classic case, I think this is going to head more towards the direction of monetary corruption being used to influence a foreign power.

[Edited on June 9, 2017 at 11:40 AM. Reason : a]

6/9/2017 11:37:38 AM

Step one - check

7/12/2017 7:36:18 PM

Are you prepared for a President Pence?

7/13/2017 3:04:14 PM

Does it matter?

but seriously, you are republican. would you have voted for Pence had he been nominated for pres?

[Edited on July 13, 2017 at 3:59 PM. Reason : d]

7/13/2017 3:58:26 PM

^^No

7/13/2017 5:19:54 PM

Pence is a stable human and is a known commodity

Trump is neither of those things, making Pence the much better option

7/13/2017 5:26:21 PM

Oh, in terms of a lesser of two evils, absolutely agree. Plus, he is loyal to his country.

7/13/2017 5:43:50 PM

Ya'll really think Pence is gonna skate right through this one???

Manafort, Kushner, and allegedly some of the Trump kids LITERALLY flew from NY to Indiana when they heard Trump was waffling on selecting Pence as VP (Trump was in Indiana meeting with Pence). Pence was hand selected for a reason by the traitors.

Pence was responsible for the transition and vetting, and it's obvious he didn't give a shit about lying on security clearance forms or Flynn et. al. running around and having multiple meetings with questionable KGB operatives.

Just because the media hasn't been blowing up with Pence articles does not mean he is clean, at best he's complicit for looking the other way.

Even if they can't impeach or indict Pence (a possibility since he seems to be the only one capable of staying out of the news) he still be neutered as all get out. He'll be politically radioactive and kept at arms length from everything.

7/13/2017 5:58:07 PM

Quote :

"Just because the media hasn't been blowing up with Pence articles does not mean he is clean, at best he's complicit for looking the other way."

I haven't seen any accusations against him so until I do, I'm not gonna jump on his case. I could entirely believe he was kept in the dark by the Trumps considering Trump's distaste for insiders and Pence being one himself.

7/13/2017 6:42:52 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=506534

7/13/2017 7:50:44 PM

^nice

^^So it sounds like you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. Why exactly?

7/13/2017 8:04:03 PM

I've always thought that he'll never be able to wash the stink of Trump off of him, and that he's completely complicit in all of this

the thought of Paul Ryan as President makes my skin crawl

7/13/2017 8:27:57 PM

Quote :

"^^So it sounds like you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. Why exactly?"

Just being level headed about it. It's not necessarily benefit of the doubt, it's simply that of all the reporting and information for the past year, not a single drop has touched Pence, whereas almost every other Trump confidant has been named. Feel like there's a reason for that.

7/13/2017 8:58:56 PM

^its because he came on board much later in the sequence of events. They have him completely on the Flynn situation, I think he knew Flynn's status as a Foreign Agent. Perhaps it will never be enough to get him to resign/impeach but I think it'll neuter him pretty severely.

^^Paul Ryan allegedly on tape making everyone swear to keep quiet about Russian funding of campaigns. I'm not sure his presidency is gonna fly either. Again, I'm not saying he did anything illegal, but after you impeach all the way to the speaker of the house do you really hold off on the guywho swore his colleagues to secrecy over the exact issue you just impeached the president and VP over? Dude's career should already be over, yet....,,,

7/13/2017 9:30:47 PM

Am I the only one completely unmoved by this circus act? Yeah, I'm sure he colluded. And in a functioning democracy, that would be bad. But we don't, and HAVE NOT lived in a functioning democracy for quite some time.

I don't fucking care about collusion with foreign agents. I don't fucking care about this Cold War red-baiting mentality. I don't fucking care that a foreign government would try to do the EXACT same thing our government does to countries across the globe ALL THE TIME. I don't fucking care if a bunch of Russian teenagers in Adidas track suits hacked into Podesta's emails. I. Don't. Fucking. Care.

Trump winning the presidency had less to do with foreign meddling, and much more to do with the general lack of faith in our democratic institutions. He didn't win because of the big bad Russians hiding underneath every bed in America. He won because the hollow, decaying institutions that are supposed to uphold and represent the interests of the American electorate have been so thoroughly corroded that the average voter has lost faith in representative government altogether. Trump is not the Manchurian brainchild of an evil foreign adversary. He is the culminating result of the steady erosion of democratic representation from the unrelenting influence of corporate power.

What exactly would any impeachment accomplish, anyway? Republican's were willing to ride the Trump train into the white house, not because they believed in him, but because they believed that he could service their agenda of voter suppression, corporate handouts, regressive tax cuts, entitlement decimation, and increased military adventurism. To the extent that he services these goals, they will tolerate his buffoonery. And when he no longer can fulfill this role of being an empty corporate vessel, or when the political pressure is too hot to keep him around, they'll gladly sweep him aside and let Pence and Ryan take his place.

And as far as I can tell, the Democrats who are foaming at the mouth for his removal are more interested in getting some sort of "win" rather than making any principled stand. This seems to be more about absolving themselves and the Clinton/Obama wing from reforming their key positions than it is about restoring institutional integrity. Because if you sit back and soberly analyze the positions Democrats are taking during this scandal, they are being extremely HAWKISH, interventionalist, and gingoistic with their attacks. This is more about forgiving themselves for disappointing Mother than it is about country. It's embarrassing. And the worst part about this, is that if they are successful in removing Trump from office, they'll just pat themselves on the back for "restoring" the status quo and it will completely suck out the energy that is DESPERATELY needed for ACTUAL, SUBSTANTIVE political reform.




[Edited on July 13, 2017 at 11:34 PM. Reason : Ugghhhhhhhh.... ]

7/13/2017 11:31:10 PM

Apparently, he doesn't care.

7/13/2017 11:56:04 PM

It's cheaper than therapy.

7/13/2017 11:58:07 PM

italics and bold

7/14/2017 12:42:15 AM

^ This guy is the perfect example of someone who would celebrate a Trump impeachment as some sort of "victory" and then go back to watching Hamilton while the war machine and mass economic exploitation continue under a Pence presidency.

7/14/2017 1:13:15 AM

Maybe after Trump is impeached, he can give a $400,000 speech to Wall Street and ask them nicely to stop speculating and ruining world economies for their own profit.

I'm sure you'd be okay with that, right?

7/14/2017 1:17:41 AM

had Bernie lost the election to Trump in the exact same way, would you feel the same as you currently do?

7/14/2017 1:20:50 AM

Considering I didn't vote for him, probably. I've been very consistent with my political leanings on here for a while. Believe it or not, there are ACTUAL leftists out there with convictions who don't distract themselves with horse race politics and empty palace intrigue

7/14/2017 1:27:06 AM

Lol, like Jill Stein!

7/14/2017 4:28:10 AM

Quote :

"This is more about forgiving themselves for disappointing Mother than it is about country. "

Democrats disappointed Mrs. Pence?

7/14/2017 6:34:12 AM

I actually agree 100% with Jesus' post. Except maybe that the Democrats are just as responsible for the degradation of our institutions as the Republicans. And before them? Pick whatever major parties were in charge.

But it sounds like he's got this romantic view how things used to be back in the day Our representative form of government has always been corrupt.

7/14/2017 7:22:05 AM

Quote :

"Trump winning the presidency had less to do with foreign meddling, and much more to do with the general lack of faith in our democratic institutions. He didn't win because of the big bad Russians hiding underneath every bed in America. He won because the hollow, decaying institutions that are supposed to uphold and represent the interests of the American electorate have been so thoroughly corroded that the average voter has lost faith in representative government altogether. Trump is not the Manchurian brainchild of an evil foreign adversary. He is the culminating result of the steady erosion of democratic representation from the unrelenting influence of corporate power."

Do you not get that America still has further she can fall? No matter what you call America's current system, Oligarchy, inverted totalitarianism, etc. it can absolutely get worse. It is a short, slippery slope to a system that looks more like ...... Russia. Where the strongman magically gets 90% of the vote EVERY SINGLE ELECTION, where opposition protests are crushed with police batons, and opposition leaders are assasinated, etc etc etc.


Now consider that there are a significant number of very rich and powerful people that would LOVE to see America become more Russia-like, because it'll be awesome for their bottom line (check out Putin's rich friends in Russia), or they see it as some other power avenue (Christian dominionism, anti-gay people, etc). Consider that one of the major messages coming out of Russia is that "Western Democracy" is dead and isn't functional, and there are quite a few people in the USA that agree with them.

This can absolutely be construed as an existential threat to what's left of American democracy.



As far as Democrats just participating in the theatre and whining about Hillary's loss, I'd say this is half true. First, democrats don't control the media, who we all know would sacrifice their first born for a ratings bump. Second, they have very little power to even get committee hearings on bills due to their stature in both Houses. So even if they did have an important bill to advance, it'd go no where. Third, with proper congressional oversight we would already have a ton of information out in public and all the speculation (and the theatre that follows it, we are living in a "who dun it" spy novel) would be much more limited, but again the GOP refuses to put Country before party.

All that being said, Dems should absolutely be tacking toward concrete proposals instead of just focusing on Russia. First a cyber critical infrastructure bill, could be bipartisan, to help mitigate cyber attacks on infrastructure, then an election integrity bill that protects voter rolls, voting machines, etc, after that campaign finance reform. If we had a functioning FEC that enforced even half of the campaign laws in this country then I'd bet Neither Trump nor Hillary would have gotten their nominations.

7/14/2017 7:28:54 AM

Quote :

"Except maybe that the Democrats are just as responsible for the degradation of our institutions as the Republicans."

Then maybe we, as a society, should stop reelecting them and start demanding change rather than spending 3.5 years playing on our iPhones and watching reality TV followed by six months of only caring who becomes President while ignoring the people that actually make shit happen in this country - congressional representatives at the state and national level.

7/14/2017 9:18:05 AM

i believe that we are in the late stages of this nation, we have proven that our government can no longer function and need a constitutional convention and a new government

but i'm still fascinated with this trump shit

7/14/2017 10:27:18 AM

^^Agree totally.

When I see a family of four at a table in a restaurant, and all four are heads-down on their phones, I just think to myself (to quote a really really bad Star Wars character in a really really bad Star Wars movie) "This is how democracy dies."

Because nobody is paying attention. Sure, we here are, but I bet we here are probably 92% more engaged with the politics and news around us than the average American.

On to other topics, look, I would love to, maybe more than most, see a viable third party, or the eradication of parties altogether. But humans are cliquish people. We tend to huddle in groups of like minds. When Republicans and Democrats go away, there will be another couple of parties to take their place.

I just don't see how we do American politics, and American government, without parties.

[Edited on July 14, 2017 at 10:29 AM. Reason : ^]

7/14/2017 10:27:33 AM

Quote :

"Except maybe that the Democrats are just as responsible for the degradation of our institutions as the Republicans."

the Democrats have no Mitch McConnell and no Fox News/conservative media

and democracy doesn't die because of smartphones

[Edited on July 14, 2017 at 10:35 AM. Reason : .]

7/14/2017 10:34:44 AM

Quote :

"And as far as I can tell, the Democrats who are foaming at the mouth for his removal are more interested in getting some sort of "win" rather than making any principled stand. This seems to be more about absolving themselves and the Clinton/Obama wing from reforming their key positions than it is about restoring institutional integrity. Because if you sit back and soberly analyze the positions Democrats are taking during this scandal, they are being extremely HAWKISH, interventionalist, and gingoistic with their attacks. This is more about forgiving themselves for disappointing Mother than it is about country. It's embarrassing. And the worst part about this, is that if they are successful in removing Trump from office, they'll just pat themselves on the back for "restoring" the status quo and it will completely suck out the energy that is DESPERATELY needed for ACTUAL, SUBSTANTIVE political reform."

yessssss

impeaching trump isn't a win. electing clinton wouldn't have been a win. democrat, republican, democrat, republican, repeat. we've been in a reagan hellhole since the 80s.

Quote :

"No matter what you call America's current system, Oligarchy, inverted totalitarianism, etc. it can absolutely get worse. It is a short, slippery slope to a system that looks more like ...... Russia."

this is complete delusion.

[Edited on July 14, 2017 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

7/14/2017 10:56:45 AM

^^You're right. A+ deduction right there folks!

Democracy dies from apathy. Apathy comes from everybody having something better to do than care. What better thing to do than immerse yourself in a 6 inch screen for hours a day rather than interact with the world around you, your family, your government.

7/14/2017 11:01:17 AM