Almost 30 dead.

What's the point of these threads after every shooting?

Every discussion comes to aught, the shooting forgotten in a few days to weeks.

Then rinse, lather, repeat.

Mass shootings will continue at the same rate for decades to come.

11/6/2017 4:36:39 PM

Quote :

"President Donald Trump, asked about the deadly shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, labeled the incident a "mental health problem at the highest level," not a "guns situation."

at this point, I would throw a god damn parade if Congress even made a half-hearted attempt to address the nexus between mental health and mass shootings (limiting gun ownership for those with mental health issues, increasing mental health funding, even a shitty underfunded ad campaign that tried to destigmatize mental health issues.)

Would it cause a noticeable reduction in mass shootings? Fuck no, but atleast they'd be doing something and admitting we have a god damn problem in this country. We can't even get a shitty ad campaign even as we have one of these shooting every month.

11/6/2017 4:53:29 PM

why cant you just admit that you are willing to put up with these shootings because you rather have guns?

like, i can willingly admit id rather be pc and put up with lone wolf attacks than systemically block muslims from entering the country.

own your position

11/6/2017 4:54:58 PM

Now whenever there's a shooting or terrorist attack everybody just hopes they can blame the other team. The political climate right now in America isn't conducive to coming up with a solution to this. Everybody is dug into their side and unwilling to compromise.

11/6/2017 4:56:02 PM

Actually, it's the NRA that's completely unwilling to compromise on this issue. So no, it's not a "both sides" problem at all.

11/6/2017 5:05:33 PM

let us have suppressors and SBRs. make NICS public, just a green or a red. require background checks on private sales. that's compromise.

11/6/2017 5:31:16 PM

That would be a start, but the NRA won't even consider it. It would also be a weak start that wouldn't accomplish much, but hey, it would be a start.

11/6/2017 5:32:12 PM

Quote :

"Actually, it's the NRA that's completely unwilling to compromise on this issue. So no, it's not a "both sides" problem at all."

Compromise involves both sides making concessions to reach an agreement. In the argument for gun control, the noguns side is asking to strip away gun rights granted by the second amendment while offering nothing in return. So no, the NRA isn't the only side completely unwilling to "compromise". They're realized the mistakes made in 1994 and have positioned themselves accordingly.

When congress is ready to have an open debate on what Neuservrrat offered as a compromise - opening up NICS, actually verifying the data in NICS as accurate, while doing away with our dumb laws on barrel lengths and suppressors - then we can talk about which side is unwilling to compromise.

11/6/2017 5:39:16 PM

That's a popular straw man, but it isn't true. I am pretty liberal and have lots of gun enthusiasts in my family and I don't want to take their guns away, because they're responsible and sane. You just proved my point about the NRA though, so thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about.

11/6/2017 5:49:24 PM

The anti-gun side might want to brush up on firearms 101 so they know what they want to actually ban other than scary guns and long clips.

11/6/2017 6:02:56 PM

You call my argument a straw man and then follow it up with a personal anecdote? My statement is neither a straw man fallacy nor false; if you want to shit on it, then provide some logic other than "I'm related to people who own guns".

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 6:12 PM. Reason : ^the anti-gun side just wants to ban guns, flat out.]

11/6/2017 6:11:07 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html

Looks like it's the Air Force's fault he wasn't flagged. They didn't properly report his crimes.


^^^^you both prove my point. Both saying the other is unwilling to compromise.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 6:29 PM. Reason : s]

11/6/2017 6:25:42 PM

The mental health angle that republicans are taking is interesting since they are actively hurting people's ability to access affordable mental health.

Maybe they should try another tactic.

11/6/2017 6:28:13 PM

Air Force didn’t enter into system. Good call on last page..

11/6/2017 6:30:09 PM

So is this more of a law enforcement issue we should be talking about or a legislative issue? Curious how many of these shootings are committed with legally attained weapons.

if nothing else this would be a place to start. More accountability with record keeping, reporting and documenting. Tighten up enforcement of the existing procedures. Maybe he still would've gotten his hands on weapons or used another medium to carry out the attack, but we'll never know.

[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 6:46 PM. Reason : a]

11/6/2017 6:43:54 PM

Quote :

"make NICS public, just a green or a red. require background checks on private sales. that's compromise."

This is basically Manchin-Toomey circa 2013, right? Except the argument back then was we had to keep NICS private for privacy reasons and to keep it from becoming a "firearms registry" (I'd agree with you that making it public with a process to remove yourself from it). Manchin-Toomey even had the added incentive of expanding interstate sales.


4 republicans voted for it in the senate. It only needed 6 more votes to pass. This was ~5 months post-Sandy Hook.


We can't even grasp the lowest of hanging fruits in this debate just months after 20 1st graders were murdered in their classroom by some deranged asshat kid. Smh.

11/6/2017 6:49:29 PM

Quote :

"The anti-gun side might want to brush up on firearms 101 so they know what they want to actually ban other than scary guns and long clips."

Are you talking to me? Back when I actually had pictures in my photo gallery on TWW, there were some photos of me at a shooting range

Pretty much my entire family, aside from my younger brother and I, have served in the military and own guns. Maybe you shouldn't try to stereotype anti-NRA people without knowing their personal history.

11/6/2017 6:56:19 PM

I'm talking about the anti-gun people who have no clue what they're talking about. They're pretty common in these debates.

11/6/2017 7:00:14 PM

There are plenty of men involved in abortion debates that can't even find their wives's clits, let alone identify a uterus on a diagram, yet they're pretty common in anti-abortion discussions too. You can't just say debating an issue is pointless because stupid people are vocal participants.

11/6/2017 7:02:03 PM

wut

11/6/2017 7:04:26 PM

People who are intellectually unqualified to debate participate all the time. No shit anti-gun people should probably at least know a little about guns to sound less stupid, but so what?

11/6/2017 7:05:26 PM

if you're talking about guns, or anything really, you (the royal you, not you spefically) should sound like you know what you're talking about. anti-gun people seem so clueless sometimes. they should work on that if they want progress.

11/6/2017 7:07:49 PM

Quote :

"The anti-gun side might want to brush up on firearms 101 so they know what they want to actually ban other than scary guns and long clips."

You need to brush up as well.

They're called magazines, not clips.

11/6/2017 7:11:41 PM

I generally agree that stupid should educate themselves to be taken seriously, but supposing these folks had a lesson or two in 'gunology', how would that make gun nuts more likely to compromise?

Hint: there's a pretty big difference between being anti-NRA and pro-gun control, and anti-gun.

11/6/2017 7:12:24 PM

what are they called instead of "scary guns"

11/6/2017 7:12:45 PM

Yeah your scary guns point was better (in the sense that the COLD DEAD HANDS folks always do it), but if you're gonna get all preachy about others not knowing what they're talking re: guns you need to know the difference between a clip and a magazine.


[Edited on November 6, 2017 at 7:27 PM. Reason : guns 101]

11/6/2017 7:18:24 PM

Firearms

Quote :

"a small arms weapon, as a rifle or pistol, from which a projectile is fired by gunpowder."

11/6/2017 7:18:33 PM

assault weapons? semi-automatic rifles?

11/6/2017 7:24:05 PM

Quote :

"assault weapons"

= "SCARY GUNS"

11/6/2017 7:25:12 PM

uzis, bazookas, AK-47s, and 'machine guns' sound scary as well

11/6/2017 7:27:12 PM

The problem is that the NRA is just so much smarter than the opposition. Yes, they have the inside track, but they force you to look past the sale and debate gun terminology instead. Once you are talking about gun terminology, they've already won. Even if you get what you want, there will still be mass shootings and little progress.

We won't fix this or any other problem until we have courageous leaders on the left. Leaders who are willing to deal with the fallout of being considered "anti 2nd". I'd love to think things will change when baby boomers die and this generation gets older, but part of me knows we will slowly become conservative as we accumulate wealth and age. It really makes me want to leave the country and watch it rot from afar. It doesn't seem like there is any hope.

11/6/2017 7:34:39 PM

I suggest a trolley ride to Canada. I'll even help you pack.

11/6/2017 7:39:59 PM

Quote :

"you need to know the difference between a clip and a magazine."

message_search.aspx?type=posts§ion=1§ion=9§ion=11§ion=15§ion=2§ion=8§ion=3§ion=13§ion=4§ion=5§ion=7§ion=10&searchstring=magazines&username=treetwista10&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=

11/6/2017 7:39:59 PM

^^If lefties keep moving to more progressive places, the right will get more and more power. Eventually, that will start to affect people like you in a negative way. How do you, as a centrist, plan to deal with that?

11/6/2017 7:55:32 PM

I mean I live in CA, which is getting bluer by the day, so I don't know what to tell you. Aside from another West Coast state (WA would be my top choice, and then maybe Oregon or Colorado), I wouldn't ever move anywhere else in the US. Frankly, a great chunk of it sucks ass, and it's only going to get worse. I wouldn't blame you for moving to Canada, but I'd be way happier in Europe, personally.

11/6/2017 8:22:09 PM

Quote :

"This is basically Manchin-Toomey circa 2013, right? Except the argument back then was we had to keep NICS private for privacy reasons and to keep it from becoming a "firearms registry" (I'd agree with you that making it public with a process to remove yourself from it). Manchin-Toomey even had the added incentive of expanding interstate sales."

IIRC, no. I believe it only made all sales go through an FFL. I don't think it did anything to allow public access to the database.

And as long as the serial number is on the paperwork, then it's a de facto registration. That's not debatable.

11/6/2017 10:24:17 PM

11/6/2017 10:33:57 PM

Quote :

"Kelley killed his grandmother-in-law during the attack, multiple friends of the woman told CNN. The gunman was obsessed with a domestic dispute, and had sent threatening text messages to his mother-in-law. He texted her as recently as Sunday morning, not long before he carried out the mass shooting, authorities said. "We know that he expressed anger towards his mother-in-law, who attends this church," Martin said."

11/6/2017 10:46:27 PM

We all know dead Americans don't bother America enough to do something about gun violence.

But America(ns) love money, right? Maybe they will do something to stop all the financial loss to the country due to gun violence?

The financial impact of mass shootings is staggering, with gun violence costing Americans over $229 billion per year.
https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1703763682979748

11/7/2017 1:17:58 AM

people care about their money, not their country's money

11/7/2017 1:51:47 AM

In the end, everybody pays for it, one way or another.

11/7/2017 3:16:01 AM

if americans were able to think like that, we would have universal healthcare already

americans only care about themselves and no one else

11/7/2017 9:34:15 AM

I care about dtownral

11/7/2017 9:52:08 AM

I care about EMCE

11/7/2017 12:09:15 PM

I care about UJustWait84

11/7/2017 2:02:13 PM

I care about afripino, especially since he is bi

11/7/2017 2:13:21 PM

Fucking hard to read


http://www.live5news.com/story/36779425/gunman-checked-each-aisle-shot-babies-at-point-blank-range

11/7/2017 2:16:19 PM

Quote :

""The lord saved me because I know it was my last day," Solis told the station."

WTF... seems like an insensitive thing to say when 30 people died around you

11/7/2017 3:04:54 PM

Hey man those babies died for our second amendment rights. Freedom isn't free, ya know? 'merica!

11/7/2017 3:08:52 PM

^^ i mean, it's pretty insensitive for an omnipotent god to let this happen in the first place

11/7/2017 3:58:30 PM