Kainen, My point was that plenty of economists besides Landsburg support John McCain. And your post only supports that fact. But do you actually want to argue the policy in question or do you want to keep googling poll results and hope to win the argument from authority???

Jeez. I guess if you can't talk intelligbley about a subject...ATTACK THE SOURCE!!

9/19/2008 9:33:28 AM

I want to make sure this doesn't get lost. This is one piece of evidence all Democrats should see. It helped change my mind about health care issues a few months back. The point is that preventative medicine simply will not help America address rising health care costs.

ActionPants, see Jonathan Gruber of MIT.

Quote :

"“It’s a nice thing to think, and it seems like it should be true, but I don’t know of any evidence that preventive care actually saves money,” said Jonathan Gruber, an M.I.T. economist who helped design the universal-coverage plan in Massachusetts. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/business/08leonhardt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

And before you start attacking the source, ala Kainen, allow me to remind you that Gruber worked with the Obama campaign (as well as Clinton's and Edward's) to develop their current health care package. The guy is hardly a right-wing nut, but he understands the limits of universal health care coverage. You should do the same.

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 9:35 AM. Reason : ``]

9/19/2008 9:34:39 AM

Quote :

"Why are you dodging the issue. You said that Obama uses the Hope and Change card to dodge questions. I am asking for one instance. Just one."

How about when he was asked if he would fire the SEC chairman? QED

9/19/2008 10:39:41 AM

That wasn't a dodge. He said he would fire everyone else too.

9/19/2008 10:43:39 AM

Well, that article basically seems to say that if people are healthier when they're young, it will just take a lot longer for their medical problems to crop up.

I guess it is cheaper for people to die when they're 60 than when they're 80. And hey, the average life expectancy in the US is already on the decline in some areas, so we're well on the way to shaving costs.

Also, nobody said it was going to free. That's why we need higher taxes.

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason : TAXES]

9/19/2008 10:57:11 AM

Quote :

"Palin's transparency proposal already exists in D.C. CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) – Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she “put the government checkbook online” in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington. “We’re going to do a few new things also,” she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. “For instance, as Alaska’s governor, I put the government’s checkbook online so that people can see where their money’s going. We’ll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We’re going to bring that back to D.C.” There’s just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online – somebody’s already done it. His name is Barack Obama. In 2006 and 2007, Obama teamed up with Republican Sen. Tom Coburn to pass the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, also known as “Google for Government.” The act created a free, searchable web site – USASpending.gov — that discloses to the public all federal grants, contracts, loans and insurance payments."

Good lord. She said "that kind of transparency." She didn't say "we'll put the US checkbook online." You people are ridiculous.

^^ are you serious that he didn't "dodge the question?" Did he or did he not say whether he would fire the SEC chairman? No, he did not answer that question. And his response was "change the administration," which is, in fact, an example of "hope and change" rhetoric. Pull your head out of your ass

9/19/2008 10:59:35 AM

He said firing the SEC chair was a good start but didn't go far enough.

9/19/2008 11:03:43 AM

right. he said we need "CHANGE". thank you for agreeing with me

9/19/2008 11:14:47 AM

How is that dodging the question? He answer the question and said he would remove not just Chairman Cox but everyone else.

Here is another good one. McCain camp is no preemptively lying.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/mccain_campaign_falsely_attack.php

Quote :

"McCain Campaign Falsely Attacks Obama For Something He Hasn't Said Yet By Greg Sargent - September 18, 2008, 4:06PM Not sure we've ever seen this one before. The McCain campaign has just blasted out a statement attacking Barack Obama for something he hasn't even said and might say later today! "

9/19/2008 11:21:34 AM

^even though you hate americans i'd still serve shoulder to shoulder with you if it came down to defending the country. i know you're not that bad.

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 11:28 AM. Reason : .]

9/19/2008 11:28:43 AM

what is this hate americans thing all about?

9/19/2008 11:32:17 AM

it's an empowerment technique

9/19/2008 11:33:53 AM

Quote :

"what is this hate americans thing all about?"

that's the part you know. you shouldn't be asking that. you should've asked

"what is this shoulder to shoulder thing all about"

9/19/2008 11:39:06 AM

Where do you get off saying I hate americans?

9/19/2008 11:41:55 AM

and yet, he responsed "CHANGE EVERYTHING." Is that not "change?" So, again, Obama answered "change." Which, in effect, dodges the question.

9/19/2008 11:48:11 AM

It's a projection technique. He hates americans, but he also wants to be seen as patriotic, so he makes it seem like someone else hates americans more than him.

9/19/2008 11:48:19 AM

I just looked into it Aaron. There was never any question asked. He was speaking to the crowd when he made those comments. I guess you don't know what a question is.

Quote :

""I think that's all fine and good but here's what I think," Obama said. "In the next 47 days you can fire the whole trickle-down, on-your-own, look-the-other way crowd in Washington who has led us down this disastrous path. "Don't just get rid of one guy. Get rid of this administration," he said. "Get rid of this philosophy. Get rid of the do-nothing approach to our economic problem and put somebody in there who's going to fight for you.""

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=742742

Also, Obama's statements were substantive to the debate, unlike McCain's POW card usage.

9/19/2008 11:53:19 AM

and yet, even then, when, effectively addressing the question, Obama still clings to "change" as his only message. equally useless.

9/19/2008 12:00:08 PM

Change is the overarcing theme of his campaign. Just like John McCain's is Country First.

9/19/2008 12:13:40 PM

9/19/2008 1:54:43 PM

^ my President?

9/19/2008 1:58:27 PM

well here is your current president



i think the only thing you can take away from pictures like these is that neither really understands the concept of an inopportune photo-op

9/19/2008 2:02:20 PM

Oh of course, a funny picture of him posing with the Heisman is SO NOT PRESIDENTIAL. Give me a fucking break and loosen up your asshole a little bit.

Sure as hell beats this guy:

9/19/2008 2:13:05 PM

The OFFICIAL post irrelevant pictures of candidates thread

9/19/2008 2:27:32 PM

lighten up, it's not hurting anything. probably adds more value than your zero sum posts you dot on these threads during the day.

9/19/2008 2:31:52 PM

Obama and Biden have some serious audacity claiming to be christians yet being the spokesmen for the party that cannot trust their own party with the sanctity of life. Biden was going off in a meeting with a union today about democrats not having values.

LOL @ him wanting that party to have values. Remember, to a democrat, life is a risk. It's bad for the environment too.

9/19/2008 2:53:25 PM

So all christians are against abortions even in cases of rape and the risk of the mothers life? Please tell me that they stone homosexuals, adulterers, and pork eaters to death as well.

9/19/2008 3:29:00 PM

Quote :

"Obama and Biden have some serious audacity claiming to be christians yet being the spokesmen for the party that cannot trust their own party with the sanctity of life. Biden was going off in a meeting with a union today about democrats not having values. LOL @ him wanting that party to have values. Remember, to a democrat, life is a risk. It's bad for the environment too."

I too hope that someday we can reduce our views on the most important issues, life and death, down to AM radio talking points.

I know it's another issue that's been boiled down to talking points, but if we have an obligation to save the lives of the unborn, do we not have an obligation to extend that vision of justice past birth? I mean, that's what I've come to view as a consistent sense of justice based on what I understand of my relationship with Christ.

9/19/2008 3:36:09 PM

Quote :

"Oh of course, a funny picture of him posing with the Heisman is SO NOT PRESIDENTIAL. Give me a fucking break and loosen up your asshole a little bit."

haha i was just fucking you with because I knew you'd take it seriously.
I can be a dick sometimes.

9/19/2008 3:37:25 PM

MOAR funny pictures

9/19/2008 3:43:38 PM

^^^the child is perfect.

you and i are far from it

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2008 3:54:11 PM

Wow

9/19/2008 4:07:15 PM

Quote :

"the child is perfect. you and i are far from it "

are you prepared to defend that? cause, i mean, in the christian sense theres the issue of sin and original sin and in the physical sense that's a little silly.

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 4:13 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2008 4:12:53 PM

Do pollsters just have vast amounts of time to waste, or what:

Quote :

"Poll: Parents prefer Obama over McCain as child's teacher"

9/19/2008 4:17:21 PM

Palin is hot, but the economy is not.

9/19/2008 4:21:36 PM

^^^your snare of words can't hide the fact that you despise human life.

[Edited on September 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ^^^]

9/19/2008 4:23:11 PM

Shit, Obama's email account was hacked today in an answer to what happened to Palin.
They snapped a pic here..

9/19/2008 4:27:23 PM

Thread needs moar funny pics.

9/19/2008 4:28:03 PM

I am surprised I have yet to see a sign...

Jesus would Vote Palin/McCain 08

9/19/2008 5:27:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTR0s9_PBN0

9/19/2008 9:39:47 PM

Obama and McCain weigh in on science and technology:

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=42

9/20/2008 11:26:48 AM

John McCain on health care:

Quote :

"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

http://www.contingencies.org/septoct08/mccain.pdf

OH LAWD.

9/20/2008 12:06:47 PM

nigga stole my trophy

9/20/2008 1:09:28 PM

On that note, I think its appropriate to post this:

http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-obama-race

9/20/2008 1:24:51 PM

i wish they would do some polling to see how race is helping Obama w/ black republicans. Or, for that matter, to see how many more blacks will be voting this year as opposed to a normal presidential election. WTG, media, at being blatantly biased, as usual

[Edited on September 20, 2008 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2008 1:49:21 PM

Quote :

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles."

[old?]

9/20/2008 1:59:13 PM

THOSE DAMN RACIST HONKEYS, NOT VOTING FOR A QUALIFIED BLACK MAN!!!

we'll just conveniently ignore all the stupid people who are voting for barack solely because he's black, including the fucking media bias that practically wants to put him in the white house without a vote

9/20/2008 2:06:27 PM

btw. he -is- 50% white. but he doesn't own up to it so it doesn't count


anywho, this is awful news for obama:

9/20/2008 2:08:21 PM

This is great news for Obama.



http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/



http://www.gallup.com/poll/110551/Gallup-Daily-Obama-50-McCain-44.aspx

[Edited on September 20, 2008 at 3:05 PM. Reason : :]

9/20/2008 3:01:59 PM

Obama does great when reality sets in and it's the issues, particularly the economy we need to improve. When McCain distracts us into a cultural Rovian election however, Obama suffers. It's a simple as that, it will depend on how the race is waged in the last handful of weeks.

9/20/2008 3:31:11 PM