We are 15-10


Norm Sloan's second year, we were 16-10

Jimmy V rebounded from an abysmal 14-13 first year with a 22-10 second year

Les Robinson, on the other hand, was 12-18 his second year (after being 20-11 his first year)

And finally, Herb Sendek was 17-15 his second year





So historically, the second year says nothing about a coach's ability. Give it a few more years. For a school that claims Jimmy V as our hero, we sure do give up a lot... the fans just as much as the players...

2/19/2008 4:43:35 PM

SIDNEY SAYS


when playing basketball:

you have to actually make the shots

MO'FUCKAS

2/19/2008 4:43:49 PM

.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 4:47:47 PM

gunzz may be the least intelligent sports talk poster who posts way too much with lack of knowledge

2/19/2008 4:51:36 PM

have you even looked at your posts in sports talk

i just did

2/19/2008 4:55:04 PM

^^^ LOL.

10/10.

2/19/2008 5:03:47 PM

Quote :

"Wall and Brown are looking very good. "

You confident about Wall? Last I heard he is likely either headed to Crooked Cal at Memphis or to Kentucky..

2/19/2008 5:10:19 PM

i haven't heard terribly good things about any of them that i can recall. but who knows, all those sites are just bullshit anyway... even though i pay for them

2/19/2008 5:11:30 PM

^ We've supposedly been the leader for Brown for awhile. Favors is a little more 'wishful' but I know there's a lot going on behind the scenes with him and we are a major major player. I kept hearing we were but he never mentioned us in interviews... about 3 weeks ago, they updated his 'favorites' and included us. Now analysts are saying if he doesn't go to a Georgia school, it looks like NC State will be the one.

Quote :

"You confident about Wall? Last I heard he is likely either headed to Crooked Cal at Memphis or to Kentucky.."

I've only seen good things.

I have a feeling his folks are gonna play a huge part in this and from what I know, they're pushing him to the hometown team. In the end, we'll be there...especially seeing how badly we need a top notch PG


Knowing we have Harris in our corner I have all the confidence in the world. I just hope we can coach em up

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 5:18 PM. Reason : ]

2/19/2008 5:14:10 PM

AxlBonBach ftw

2/19/2008 5:19:10 PM

Quote :

"I kept hearing we were but he never mentioned us in interviews... about 3 weeks ago, they updated his 'favorites' and included us."

see, i don't take those 'favorites' lists to mean much of anything, other than who the kid claims to have offered him, and even those aren't true all the time.

if he doesn't mention us in interviews, i would guess that he's not all that interested.

2/19/2008 5:23:20 PM

Quote :

" We are 15-10 Norm Sloan's second year, we were 16-10 Jimmy V rebounded from an abysmal 14-13 first year with a 22-10 second year Les Robinson, on the other hand, was 12-18 his second year (after being 20-11 his first year) And finally, Herb Sendek was 17-15 his second year So historically, the second year says nothing about a coach's ability. Give it a few more years. For a school that claims Jimmy V as our hero, we sure do give up a lot... the fans just as much as the players... "

EEEEEEE NN   NN DDDDD     OOOOO  FFFFFFF 
EE      NNN  NN DD  DD   OO   OO FF      
EEEEE   NN N NN DD   DD  OO   OO FFFF    
EE      NN  NNN DD   DD  OO   OO FF      
EEEEEEE NN   NN DDDDDD    OOOO0  FF      
                                         
TTTTTTT HH   HH RRRRRR  EEEEEEE   AAA   DDDDD   
  TTT   HH   HH RR   RR EE       AAAAA  DD  DD  
  TTT   HHHHHHH RRRRRR  EEEEE   AA   AA DD   DD 
  TTT   HH   HH RR  RR  EE      AAAAAAA DD   DD 
  TTT   HH   HH RR   RR EEEEEEE AA   AA DDDDDD  

2/19/2008 7:48:19 PM

gad man, this thread exploded. jumps 4 pages in 2 days.

anyway

^the post you quoted really makes no sense. norm sloan was taking over for press who kinda les robinsoned everett case's team. althought my dad said part of that was that case was getting sick at the end of his tenure and may not have recruited well. anyway, regardless, 16-10 was about the same as his first year and a vast improvement over the year before that.

as for jimmy v, correct, he had a mediocre first year, which is acceptable and won over 20 games while making the tourney in his second year, is this supposed to be comparable to lowe somehow?? (of course, he was using sloan's players those first 3 years, lowe, whittenburg and charles, but still)

as for les, everybody agrees he we was horrible, why even mention him? he did great his first year with fire and ice in their sr years and then stagedove (stagedived??).

as for herb, he came in and took a perennial bottom feeder and took them to their first post-season play since that aforementioned. fire and ice year. he didnt show vast improvement from year 1 to year 2 but he did improve.

besides all of that, how many people in this thread can actually remember how the teams played under any of these coaches but herb and les??? one of the biggest knocks on lowe is that the team is so inconsistent, so frequently shows no heart and makes tons of bad mistakes. these are all coaching concerns.

so to summarize, not end of thread at all....

2/19/2008 10:08:45 PM

Quote :

"do you people even follow recruiting we didnt have a chance w/ Jamelle....wow....Jamelle had a strong, STRONG relationship with Herb. Plus, he didnt really want to leave the west coast."

We had no chance at McMillan because Lowe chose not to try or offer. He held out and tried to get Wright and lost. So in a sense, he did pass over McMillan.

2/20/2008 1:32:22 AM

[quote]The injuries have piled up quickly for the Tar Heels (24-2, 9-2 Atlantic Coast Conference). Point guard Ty Lawson is expected to miss his fifth straight game Wednesday due to a sprained left ankle, while Deon Thompson played just 9 minutes in Saturday's win against Virginia Tech due to a hyperextended left knee and could be limited again. Backup point guard Quentin Thomas (flu-like symptoms), forward Danny Green (flu) and swingman Marcus Ginyard (sprained right ankle, injured left big toe) are also playing through ailments.

The Tar Heels also lost reserve guard Bobby Frasor to a season-ending knee injury in December.
[/quote

If we can't compete tomorrow then we're a poorly coached team, period.

2/20/2008 1:33:20 AM

The situations in each coach's case were totally different in year 2 but if you really look into all of them improved in some fashion in year 2. We have not this year.

Quote :

"1997-1998 Roster: Justin Gainey, Danny Strong, Ishua Benjamin, Damon Thornton, CC Harrison, Jeremy Hyatt, Luke Buffum, Al Pinkins, Tim Wells, Jason Sutton, Andre McCullum, Steve Norton "

I can't find rosters for the others but look at that squad they went 17-15 (5-11). Our current squad is on nearly the same pace.

2/20/2008 1:41:44 AM

the lack of recruiting knowledge in this thread hurts my head

2/20/2008 1:44:25 AM

my point was NOT that we are in the same predicament that we were in those years... nor that we have the same or more talent, or anything like that.



my point was EXACTLY what I said it was:

Quote :

"historically, the second year says nothing about a coach's ability."

the thread is about sidney lowe's credibility. my argument is that it's much too soon to tell. the "oh we've got so much talent" doesn't hold that much water. If we do, where is it?

Sid's not the one missing shots and giving up. Sid's not the one that can't catch a pass or won't jump for a rebound. He's riding the horse he's got for now. And, continuing the cliche, while he can lead them to water, he can't make them drink the kool-aid.

Give it time.

2/20/2008 1:41:00 PM

Quote :

"Sid's not the one missing shots and giving up. Sid's not the one that can't catch a pass or won't jump for a rebound."

hahahaha, ok it's not his fault apparently

2/20/2008 1:46:50 PM

fear the red jacket?

2/20/2008 6:51:17 PM

Stop playing Ferguson and Horner. Nice call putting freshman Tracy Smith on All American Hansdouche. Great coaching moves in the biggest game of the season.

2/20/2008 7:51:06 PM

We are just a bad basketball team.

2/20/2008 8:17:12 PM

great game to start experimenting with lineups

2/20/2008 8:33:24 PM

HE FUCKING BLEW THIS GAME!!

2/20/2008 8:34:56 PM

I just got home and haven't seen anything but how did Lowe blow this game? UNC is just flat out better..

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 8:38 PM. Reason : gotta ? why Smith hasn't played more though... he brings some energy and can finish]

2/20/2008 8:36:51 PM

wroooong thread

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 8:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2008 8:38:12 PM

Take off that jacket Sidney Lowe...you are disgracing the color red tonight.

2/20/2008 8:41:16 PM

you guys are fucking idiots.. tracy smith in this game is one of the right things sid has done IMO. fucking costner was halfassing it around like always, JJ didnt block out, tracy smith comes in the game and hustles even when the rest of the team has given up.

2/20/2008 8:42:43 PM

Hire a defensive coordinator or get fired in 2 years, sidney lowe.

2/20/2008 8:54:41 PM

Quote :

"I just got home and haven't seen anything but how did Lowe blow this game? UNC is just flat out better.."

Because we're not getting beat wholly because UNC is better. We're losing in the same way that we lose every game: one competitive half, one that's complete ass.

It's unexcusable.

2/20/2008 8:55:49 PM

UNEXCUSABLE

2/20/2008 8:56:20 PM

Quote :

"you guys are fucking idiots.. tracy smith in this game is one of the right things sid has done IMO. fucking costner was halfassing it around like always, JJ didnt block out, tracy smith comes in the game and hustles even when the rest of the team has given up. "

Ugh did you watch the game.

he put in smith with like 10 minutes left and the game was already outta hand.

Before that we had cheezburgers and ferg helping cement a loss for us

2/20/2008 8:57:34 PM

Quote :

"tracy smith in this game is one of the right things sid has done IMO."

Also one of the wrong things Sidney has done during this losing streak....NOT PLAYING TRACY SMITH ENOUGH! He was one of the best players on the court @ Clemson...and rarely played after that.

2/20/2008 8:58:48 PM

I love that Costner's nickname is cheezburgers


that shit is funny.


Did anyone really expect us to win?

I was hoping that we would at least play two good halves. I should learn not to hope for this team. It is a waste of hope.

2/20/2008 8:59:16 PM

grant, fells, and hickson wilted big time, too. everyone sucked, pretty much.

javier was about as good as I expected him to be.

2/20/2008 8:59:21 PM

Hickson wilted away on the bench cause he was there for a solid 12 minutes in the second half

Javi did pretty well but needs to hit those wide open threes he keeps on getting. He hit the first 2 and then missed everything after that.

I mean those shots are wide the fuck open

2/20/2008 9:01:44 PM

Putting in Tracy Smith was a good coaching call by coach. He at least showed effort.

JJ looked bitch-made against Hansborough. He needs to step it up if he wants to be big-time. However honestly I don't know very many big men who work as hard as Hansborough.

I just hope we start showing some more consistent effort on both sides of the court. It almost seems like we are not conditioned enough?

Cheezburgers and ferg....that shit is classic.

2/20/2008 9:10:42 PM

Quote :

"the "oh we've got so much talent" doesn't hold that much water. If we do, where is it? "

our talent was there in the 1rst half of this game. our talent was there in the 1rst half of the duke game. our talent was there in the 1rst half of the umd game.

Quote :

"my point was EXACTLY what I said it was: Quote : "historically, the second year says nothing about a coach's ability.""

except that it really does! herb showed that he had the ability to improve the team. sure, to what level nobody knew, but it was clear the team was on their way up. les's 2nd season showed he had the ability to shove a team into the toilet. i mean, the high level of his 1rst year makes his 2nd year that much worse. valvano's 2nd season showed that he could continue on the excellence of sloan's teams. he had his first year of learning curve taking over a new team in a new league and then turned it up. sloan's 2nd year showed that he was clearing out the dregs from maravich and the end of case.

i mean, you can't look at 2nd years in a vacuum, looking at the record and nothing else. if you didnt watch the teams play, you just can't know the full story. this year we've seen so many problems that seem to be a case of coaching. the 12 man lineups, the inconistent subs, completely changing your gameplan to work around 1 player, mismanaging talent resulting in huge chemistry issues, teams playing only 1 half.

the last thing is really the worst. one of my biggest knocks on herb used to be that his teams played only 35 minutes an always found a way to fall apart just long enough to lose the game. sid's teams this year seem to play 20 minutes. lately, as you are watching the game you can literally see the game falling apart. tonight when they hit that 3 at the end of the half with our players running on d like chickens with their heads cut off was a an obvious turning point. we lost the momentum b/c of sloppy play and then came out completely flat in the 2nd half.

as for 'giving up,' i cant speak for everyone in this thread, but i'm not callling for his head, at least not yet. i'm willing to give him at least one more year. but it is dumb to say we can't criticize the coach just b/c it is too early. if he had come out last year and gone 2-28, everyone would have been on his ass.

2/20/2008 9:21:35 PM

          _______             _______  _______    _        _______ 
|\     /|(  ____ \  |\     /|(  ___  )(  ____ \  ( (    /|(  ___  )
| )   ( || (    \/  | )   ( || (   ) || (    \/  |  \  ( || (   ) |
| | _ | || (__      | (___) || (___) || (_____   |   \ | || |   | |
| |( )| ||  __)     |  ___  ||  ___  |(_____  )  | (\ \) || |   | |
| || || || (        | (   ) || (   ) |      ) |  | | \   || |   | |
| () () || (____/\  | )   ( || )   ( |/\____) |  | )  \  || (___) |
(_______)(_______/  |/     \||/     \|\_______)  |/    )_)(_______)
                                                                   
 _______  _______ _________ _       _________
(  ____ )(  ___  )\__   __/( (    /|\__   __/
| (    )|| (   ) |   ) (   |  \  ( |   ) (   
| (____)|| |   | |   | |   |   \ | |   | |   
|  _____)| |   | |   | |   | (\ \) |   | |   
| (      | |   | |   | |   | | \   |   | |   
| )      | (___) |___) (___| )  \  |   | |   
|/       (_______)\_______/|/    )_)   )_(   
                                             
 _______           _______  _______  ______  
(  ____ \|\     /|(  ___  )(  ____ )(  __  \ 
| (    \/| )   ( || (   ) || (    )|| (  \  )
| |      | |   | || (___) || (____)|| |   ) |
| | ____ | |   | ||  ___  ||     __)| |   | |
| | \_  )| |   | || (   ) || (\ (   | |   ) |
| (___) || (___) || )   ( || ) \ \__| (__/  )
(_______)(_______)|/     \||/   \__/(______/ 
                                             

2/20/2008 9:27:57 PM

Javi was not our problem tonight...and hasn't been our main problem most losses this season.

I will, however, reiterate my comments about his "ceiling." He'll give us a few moments of really good play, but overall will never be a good-to-great point guard.

2/20/2008 9:31:18 PM

Javi is a very good BACKUP point guard.

2/20/2008 9:32:51 PM

sid and his idiotic substitutions lost this one no question. you knew it was gonna be bad when he took out three starters for cheezburgerz fergy and marques johnson iirc AFTER WE HAD PLAYED GREAT SO FAR AND HAD THE GAME TIED.

and no...with our slow down tempo it wasn't because they were tired....

then he continued to treat the game like a dadgom circus, throwing in whacky lineups just for laughs it seemed. why he did not start the starters for the second half is beyond me. costner started over mccauley and mccauley didn't even see the floor until we were down about 15. mccauley had his share of screwups too for sure but immediately when he came in he was directly involved in probably the next five or six scores.

2/20/2008 9:34:25 PM

i don't care what anyone says, there are teams out there with point guards who are of the same caliber as javi and don't have an offense that looks like that. We are completely lost on that end of the court, it is a joke.

Don't tell me that some amazing point guard would fix this shit, nobody knows where to go, players are literly(sp?) running into each other, and it is just plain embarrasing. That is coaching.

Even when we do manage to score, it is usually of some lucky desperation shot at the end of the shot clock or an individual doing something good(like getting through two or three people), but there is not team offense.

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 9:35 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 9:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2008 9:35:27 PM

^and that's the other reason we lost....our crappy offense

and you're right pg play had nothing to do with it. we completely abandoned the offense that served us well in the first half. sid kept grant on the bench. our guards tried to force it inside to hickson every single time down the court when in the first half we passed it around on the perimeter, made cuts, had our wings driving to the basket, etc.

sid is asking way too much from jj and i can't believe he still hasn't figured that out this far into the season

2/20/2008 9:42:02 PM

Quote :

"Putting in Tracy Smith was a good coaching call by coach. He at least showed effort. "

they were saying on the radio that lowe has said recently that hes not afraid to give minutes to players who come off the bench and outhustle starters

i said to myself "its a little too fucking late for that"

[Edited on February 20, 2008 at 9:44 PM. Reason : in regards to smith getting his minutes]

2/20/2008 9:43:46 PM

sids 'idiotic' substitutions = get the fuck off the court if you aren't going to block out while playing unc at home


i give him all credit for making them. gg sid. cheers to next season unless we win the acc tourney

2/20/2008 9:44:11 PM

It was nice though on the way out of the game I heard the new NC State motto uttered several times over and over...since it is basketball season :

"Just wait till football season.."

Now once football season comes, and we disapoint listen for that great motto but with a small change..

"Just wait till basketball season.."

Not sure what we are waiting for, but it isn't coming anytime soon.

2/20/2008 9:46:46 PM

^^yeah...gg for playing fergy horner and costner while letting unc go on their run to begin the second half. those are greaaat substitutions. costner....i mean he boxes out with the best of em!!!

and when i talk ab his idiotic substitions i'm not talking about playing tracy smith...well yeah i am...because he should have been playing the past 5 games!!!

2/20/2008 9:54:44 PM

while he definitely is going to get some more time before I write him off, some of the lineups he would sub off the bench were utterly horrible, I mean Johnson AND Ferguson on the floor at the same time, while fells was out? We literally only had about one or two players in that lineup even capable of scoring at all, and that had a lot to do with some of our droughts

but the contrast between the two halves was ridiculously dramatic this time and it just baffles my mind, I mean what the fuck did somebody put valium in their drinks at halftime? it's just like they give us little tastes, moments of brilliance and cohesion and then just completely stop altogether

2/20/2008 10:15:09 PM

It's because other teams figure out how to attack our crappy defense.

2/20/2008 10:19:40 PM