Quote :

"maybe...JUST MAYBE...people who are trained day-in and day-out about the use of deadly force aren't applying it in cases which violate the law. but that doesn't sit well with people who want REVENGE and not JUSTICE "

LOL, or more likely, the system is slanted towards officers, and Wilson knew how to play the system. He knew that he shouldn't say anything to anyone, even filing a police report until 10 days later. He made no accounts or statements for at least 72 hours. The first person he called was his union rep, and a lawyer (hours before going to the hospital-- which we now know is because he wasn't actually injured). He did everything right to ensure that he didn't say anything to anyone that wasn't fully vetted and constructed by lawyers and experts to absolve him of any wrongdoing.

There's holes in his story, but in the absence of video evidence of the encounter, it doesn't matter.

If the prosecutor's goal in the grand jury investigation was to get an actual trial, this would have been possible, except this prosecutor's goal was to get Wilson off, like 98% of other police officers in this situation, and it worked.

The end result of all this is that rather than let the justice system work, let your community gain confidence in your leadership, rebuild faith in a system that in Ferguson has been measurably broken for a long time now, this scumbag lawyer decided to maintain the thin blue line and status quo knowing it would enrage an already angry mob, that already feels unrepresented and disenfranchised.

If you wonder what people do when they feel truly powerless, now you know. They grab on to the simplest, most easiest form of power any human has, which is the brute force of their hands.

The looters here are true scum bags, but they're no more scum bags than the lawyer in this case who doesn't value fairness, the mayor that took no efforts to communicate, the police chiefs that let the systemic biases run their departments for years despite calls for reform, and the police officer that can't keep his calm when provoked by a kid.


[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2014 1:11:01 PM

guilty until found not guilty and then guilty anyway.

also, it appears you're confusing "leadership" and "trust" with "revenge"


[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 1:15 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2014 1:15:00 PM

You have to be tried to be found not guilty. This goes in the "nothing happened" category.

11/25/2014 1:16:52 PM

^^We don't know if he was guilty, because he didn't face any actual scrutiny.

Quote :

"also, it appears you're confusing "leadership" and "trust" with "revenge" "

Tell that to the millions of dollars lost by business owners. This could have easily been avoided with minimally competent leadership, which has never been demonstrated in Ferguson from the initial reaction.

11/25/2014 1:20:54 PM

I think people need to re-ground themselves over this decision to indict. This wasn't to prove or disprove guilt of Officer Wilson. This was a decision on whether to even bring him to trial. I can understand how people are upset that the state has essentially said 'we don't even think there is a reasonable suspicion that the officer was wrong here. We aren't even going to attempt to hold him accountable for any actions he took'.

11/25/2014 1:21:37 PM

he didn't face scrutiny...just a grand jury that spent 3 months going over all available evidence. christ do you listen to yourself?

11/25/2014 1:22:32 PM

^ you clearly don't understand how grand juries are supposed to work. Educate yourself before making ignorant statements.

There's information linked in this very thread.

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 1:23 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2014 1:23:28 PM

ignorant statement or not it doesnt change the fact that arguing with the likes of you is pointless

all we have to do is say something like "blah blah blah the whole system is broken blah blah" and we sound like intelligent revolutionaries or something

in that case we are all in agreement with you moron, now run along and apply the same argument to wall street, immigration, foreign policy... you name it

apply your genius thesis of winners and losers to literally everything in the world and pat yourself on the back for being so brilliant

11/25/2014 1:28:37 PM

Quote :

"4) people with preconceived notions (i.e. protesters) railing against the outcome when it wasn't want they wanted aren't any more valid just because they have someone call them "experts." the most amusing part is they are pissed because the DA gave the grand jury all the evidence instead of manipulating it to get Wilson charged."

And on top of this, the grand jury that heard the argument for this case was chosen before the shooting even happened. The jury was not "set up for failure."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/answers-questions-ferguson-grand-jury-27144761

Quote :

"Q: Was the grand jury appointed for this specific case? A: No. It was appointed for a four-month term. The grand jury had been hearing routine cases around the time Brown was killed and then turned its attention to the shooting. The jury's term was due to expire Sept. 10. That same day, county Judge Carolyn Whittington extended the term to Jan. 7 ? the longest extension allowable by state law. The investigation was always expected to go longer than the typical grand jury term."

11/25/2014 1:34:58 PM

http://www.theroot.com/photos/2013/06/unarmed_black_men_shot_by_police_20_sad_stories.html

It makes me sad that over half of this country thinks this shit is ok. But are mad that some stores got broken into. Life > Property, wake up.



[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 1:42 PM. Reason : f]

11/25/2014 1:42:07 PM

^Some or even most of those are probably legit complaints. But the Ferguson case is absolutely not.

11/25/2014 1:46:07 PM

I served on a federal grand jury for a year. We met 2-3 days a month and each session gave favorable bills for indictment. Not once did we ever dismiss a bill of indictment. While there may be investigative sessions that never lead to a formal indictment, DA's hate to lose and they only seek indictments they are 100% confident are going to be returned favorably.

That being sad either the GJ did their job at voting down a bill of indictment due to a really lousy evidence, an indictment only sought to appease the mobs, OR this is part of a conspiracy of "the man/system" trying to suppress the minorities and protect murdering police officers.

Quote :

"They were advocating hard for peaceful protests no matter the outcome because they knew that was the only way for anything positive to come from this. Instead we got what most of the rest of america expected. So whether you like it or not in the end all this has done is reenforce the ideas and stereotypes most people have against black people. Yes, many protesters were peaceful, but in the end the small group who thought it was a great excuse to set things on fire and loot stores have wiped out any sort of progress that might have been made. Maybe one of these days people will figure out that if you want the cops to stop profiling you, you should try to stop giving them reason after reason to do so."

well said [/thread]

11/25/2014 1:46:54 PM

someone embed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37HT4-EtzE

11/25/2014 1:48:14 PM

Quote :

" So whether you like it or not in the end all this has done is reenforce the ideas and stereotypes most people have against black people"

Please tell me more about how some rioters are reinforcing racist stereotypes that date back to slavery? "Some people stole some insured property, cops are justified in killing them animals" I'll bet good money you have < 5 minority friends.



[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2014 1:52:12 PM

Quote :

"all we have to do is say something like "blah blah blah the whole system is broken blah blah" and we sound like intelligent revolutionaries or something "

LOL, you must not have been following this issue too closely...

I'm pretty sure this was posted already, but just in case anyone thought mcculloch was trying to be impartial:
http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-prosecutor-robert-p-mccullochs-long-history-siding-police-267357

Also some more context to how things work in St. Louis for the police:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

11/25/2014 2:06:33 PM

it pains me to say this, but y0willy0 is right. i'm not wasting another breath on arguing against your revenge fantasy

11/25/2014 2:10:14 PM

^^some of the shit in that article is very concerning.

But this:

Quote :

"Racial tension was endemic in Jennings, said Rodney Epps, an African American city council member. “You’re dealing with white cops, and they don’t know how to address black people,” Epps said."

I didn't realize black people were supposed to be treated differently than white people by cops.

11/25/2014 2:12:53 PM

Quote :

"I didn't realize black people were supposed to be treated differently than white people by cops."

of course not. is anybody arguing otherwise?

in fact, that's one of the main arguments of this whole damn thing. that blacks are not being treated equally by cops.

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM. Reason : d]

11/25/2014 2:28:21 PM

Quote :

"I didn't realize black people were supposed to be treated differently than white people by cops."

They absolutely should be treated differently. A good rule of thumb is to call them "my man" a lot.

11/25/2014 2:31:25 PM

Quote :

"Please tell me more about how some rioters are reinforcing racist stereotypes that date back to slavery?"

The fact that everyone assumed if this went the way it did that rather than protest in a legal manner people would turn to rioting, looting, and burning down buildings... that is exactly what happened. Sure the media is somewhat to blame for this because thats all they plastered all over the TV, but do you not agree had everything remained peaceful and people could control themselves it would have been a much better outcome for black perception in this country? Obviously this one instance doesn't define the issue one way or the other but it was definitely an extremely high profile chance to at least make some headway.

Things were handled pretty piss poorly by the police obviously but sometimes you gotta get past that and be the better person. I think the biggest thing to me was just how much the family wanted things to remain peaceful and the people who were supporting them failed to honor that request and I am sure to see their town burning down along with their dead child must be heartbreaking to them.

11/25/2014 2:32:26 PM

Quote :

"he didn't face scrutiny...just a grand jury that spent 3 months going over all available evidence. christ do you listen to yourself? "

you do realize the DA totally absolved himself of any responsibility of the indictment by refusing to say anything, right? jurors need instructions and input from DAs- that's how the US legal system is supposed to work. honestly, he should've handed the case over to the feds.

11/25/2014 2:33:04 PM

This country is just chock full of stupid. I don't feel bad anymore for being a "home body". I'd much rather hangout at my house with my wife than deal with the general public these days.

11/25/2014 2:36:14 PM

Quote :

"This country is just chock full of stupid. I don't feel bad anymore for being a "home body". I'd much rather hangout at my house with my wife than deal with the general public these days."

This.

11/25/2014 2:39:30 PM

Quote :

"it pains me to say this, but y0willy0 is right. i'm not wasting another breath on arguing against your revenge fantasy"

first of all, just whoa, second of all its not "his" revenge fantasy

its what this has been for literally everyone except darren wilson from day one

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/hey-ferguson-protestors-justice-has-been-done-but-you-never-wanted-justice/

Quote :

"Officer Wilson will not be charged because the entire outrage was built on fabricated witness testimony. Witness testimony, in some cases, from people who weren’t even witnesses. Officer Wilson was not indicted because the physical evidence, forensics, and ballistics all supported his story. Officer Wilson was vindicated because the most consistent witnesses were the ones who validated his version of events (and most of those witnesses were black)."

wooo theblaze... flame away motherfuckers

11/25/2014 2:47:41 PM

Quote :

"The fact that everyone assumed if this went the way it did that rather than protest in a legal manner people would turn to rioting, looting, and burning down buildings... that is exactly what happened. Sure the media is somewhat to blame for this because thats all they plastered all over the TV, but do you not agree had everything remained peaceful and people could control themselves it would have been a much better outcome for black perception in this country? Obviously this one instance doesn't define the issue one way or the other but it was definitely an extremely high profile chance to at least make some headway. "

you say that as if this one event is some sort of litmus test that had people thinking, "they stay calm, I'm now a fan. they don't, this one, relatively small sample size will make my mind up for me."

what about all of the times people don't riot?

does every riot after every event make you look differently at the race of who is doing the rioting?

this whole thing has been a perfect storm of sorts

11/25/2014 2:49:48 PM

Quote :

"it pains me to say this, but y0willy0 is right. i'm not wasting another breath on arguing against your revenge fantasy "

Where do you get wanting a fair trial, or working democratic institutions as "revenge". o.O

11/25/2014 2:54:49 PM

Quote :

"what about all of the times people don't riot?"

whats this doing in this thread?


[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 2:56 PM. Reason : -]

11/25/2014 2:55:43 PM

11/25/2014 2:56:00 PM

Quote :

"Where do you get wanting a fair trial, or working democratic institutions as "revenge". o.O"

so lets discuss getting rid of the grand jury system

11/25/2014 2:58:23 PM

Quote :

"Obviously this one instance doesn't define the issue one way or the other but it was definitely an extremely high profile chance to at least make some headway."

All I am trying to say is that there are reasons that society in general tends to have stereotypes towards all different types of people. When you are arguing that society views you in a negative light and that police are targeting you it only makes sense to me that the best way to start shedding some of those negative views is to change the status quo and react in a way not expected when the spotlight is on you with the whole country watching. Just seems like a blown chance to make some progress even if just a little.

11/25/2014 3:02:37 PM

^ doesn't that go both ways?

This prosecutor could have taken this as an opportunity to show his own constituents that he's there to work for them, but putting together an actual case to the grand jury, instead of the sham of a case he actually concocted.

The Mayor could have taken this as an opportunity to fight the stereotype of being disconnected or lacking concern for the, the governor, the chief of police, all these people could have taken a stand and proven that they actually care. None of them did.

Why is the burden on the people with the least amount of power?

11/25/2014 3:12:34 PM

Yes everyone that is a victim of being profiled should just act the opposite of the stereotype to classically condition the sterotypers that they are wrong. That doesn't make any sense.

You do know the stereotype that blacks are out of control, aggressive etc dates back to slavery right. Maybe cops and whites should stop stereotyping minorities and actually go make a minority friend or two. My friends are predominantly white, find a white person that can say the same about minorities.

11/25/2014 3:12:53 PM

Stereotypes are wrong all the time. They are incredibly problematic and dangerous, and a very shallow and shortsighted way to view the world.

But I'm a do it anyway. Amirite?

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2014 3:13:06 PM

judge was in on it, jury was in on it, evidence was planted, eyewitnesses were bought

etc etc

11/25/2014 3:25:26 PM

Quote :

"Sure the media is somewhat to blame for this because thats all they plastered all over the TV, but do you not agree had everything remained peaceful and people could control themselves it would have been a much better outcome for black perception in this country? Obviously this one instance doesn't define the issue one way or the other but it was definitely an extremely high profile chance to at least make some headway."

why is the benefit of the doubt routinely given to white people while black people are almost never given the benefit of the doubt?

it's not like one race has a monopoly on rioting.

this one event doesn't have to be a referendum on an entire race, which is what some people are attempting to make this.

11/25/2014 3:36:16 PM

hes probably referring to the other high profile cases as of late

11/25/2014 3:38:27 PM

Were the jews the organizers of this public execution?

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/25/2014 3:40:37 PM

^^^^ McCulloch didn't try to make a case. He shotgunned every witness he could find (which is unusual in grand juries), and didn't form any coherent argument as a prosecutor should. This isn't a conspiracy as you're trying to suggest, this is pretty obvious. And considering McCulloch's background, he shouldn't have ever been the one handling this.

It was your standard dog and pony show. The responsibly for these riots is partially on him.

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 3:41 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2014 3:40:57 PM

Quote :

"My friends are predominantly white, find a white person that can say the same about minorities. "

dont want them stealing my bicycle!

11/25/2014 3:46:17 PM

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/opinion/2014/11/25/opinion-ferguson-decision-was-handiwork-prosecutor-mcculloch/

Quote :

"So if you want to identify who should be held accountable for Monday’s travesty of justice look no further than the prosecutor’s office. Indeed, in less than a week we have two clear examples of the unique power that prosecutors hold by way of prosecutorial discretion.... All grand juries are led in their deliberations by the local prosecutor. In Ferguson that prosecutor abdicated his role by playing the role of bystander rather than a representative of the victim's family. Who in that Grand Jury courtroom advanced the interest of the victim of the possible crime? Apparently, no one. That is not justice nor will it restore faith in the system for the residents of Ferguson or for black and Latino communities throughout the country. ... That alone should have forced the local criminal justice system to act. Its failure to do so – precisely because the local prosecutor inverted the grand jury’s role – cannot be excused"

another source if you don't trust latinos:

Quote :

" Since St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch did not bring a criminal complaint against Wilson and he was never charged, arraigned or arrested, she said. McCulloch also took the unusual step of presenting both incriminating and exculpatory evidence, she said. "Officer Wilson got preferential treatment," she said. "I represent only poor people, and he was given a lot of courtesies that my clients have not."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/25/what-comes-next-now-that-grand-jury-has-spoken/19084577/


[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 4:03 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2014 3:50:24 PM

Time to move on to the next big story, people are losing interest in what The Community is burning, out in a shitty town none of us ever want to go to anyway

11/25/2014 4:12:11 PM

Quote :

"another source if you don't trust latinos:"

this constant bullshit / needling is why you and your ilk will never make the point youre trying to make

take that to heart, seriously

11/25/2014 4:23:01 PM

Quote :

"but do you not agree had everything remained peaceful and people could control themselves it would have been a much better outcome for black perception in this country? Obviously this one instance doesn't define the issue one way or the other but it was definitely an extremely high profile chance to at least make some headway. "

why doesn't shit like this hold white people back and hurt white perception?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot (yeah i know it's in canada)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/19/us/new-hampshire-pumpkin-festival-riot/

http://nesn.com/2014/10/san-francisco-giants-fans-riot-in-streets-after-world-series-win-photos/

11/25/2014 4:24:14 PM

Here is a friendly reminder to all you white people out there: Black people have never, ever been welcome citizens in this country, not sure why people (of any color) think otherwise. 50 years ago the situation was the same, the only difference is that now we are feared rather than persecuted.



I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/25/2014 4:25:51 PM

^^

Quote :

"Here's how great it is to be white: I can get in a time machine and go to any time, and it would be fucking awesome when I get there! That is exclusively a white privilege. Black people can't fuck with time machines! A black guy in a time machine's like, "Hey, anything before 1980, no thank you. I don't want to go." But I can go to any time! The year 2. I don't even know what's happening then, but I know when I get there... "Welcome, we have a table right here for you, sir." "Thank you. Oh, it's lovely here in the year 2." I can go to any time--in the past. I don't want to go to the future and find out what happens to white people because we're gonna pay hard for this shit, you got to know that. We're not going to just fall from number one to two. They're gonna hold us down and fuck us in the ass forever. And we totally deserve it. But for now, wheeeeeeee!"

[Edited on November 25, 2014 at 4:27 PM. Reason : -]

11/25/2014 4:26:58 PM

Must be something about this country they like, don't hear too many stories of them picking up and moving to Canada

11/25/2014 4:28:53 PM

Yeah because all of us 'picked up' and moved here from Africa.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/25/2014 4:30:45 PM

Are you saying you know black people that'd rather be living in Africa right now?

11/25/2014 4:32:41 PM

I know actual black people in real life who think they would rather live in Africa. Unfortunately we only have one experience, and some of us think that experience has been sub par.

I support their right to protest - even violently. At the same time a lot of the responsibility comes from parents (assuming they weren't sent to jail disproportionately), the school system (assuming schools didn't disproportionately suspend black children) and the communities to properly raise children to live in a way that is constructive rather than destructive. Many of that is our own responsibility. Step one? Don't leave it up to Bobby Shmurda to educate your children.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/25/2014 4:52:17 PM

A riot is the language of the unheard.

11/25/2014 5:10:34 PM