DisinformationRule19: Ignore facts, demand impossible proofs

5/1/2006 5:20:46 PM

salisburyboy i have a request

please either prove that there is a god or there isnt a god, your choice

thanks


Love,


TreeTwista10

5/1/2006 5:29:13 PM

Quote :

"Slavery is freedom."

Now, you don't do this very often anymore salisbury, but it's done often enough everywhere else in the world and it's driving me nuts, so I just have to say something.

Please, please stop making references to 1984. From the ones I've seen you do, it's obvious that you have no understanding of the world that was portrayed in that book. Stop calling things "orwellian", stop referring to Big Brother, and stop repeating phrases from Ingsoc.

We do not live in an Orwellian world, this is not 1984, this is not Oceania. If we did, you would not exist. You would have vanished a long time ago. In fact, TWW wouldn't exist, and no evidence of any conspiracy behind 9/11 or the Iraq War would exist. Hell, I'm sure lots of people on TWW would have vanished by now, not just you.

I don't want to single you out or anything. Lots of 1984 references get tossed around nowadays and it's gotten to the point that I just had to say something. So I'm just asking you to not do it anymore, because it has nothing to do with the things you attempt to discuss.

That said...

I think people would have an easier time accepting or at least considering what you post if you would lay off the whole Zionist/Jew/etc conspiracy. I'd be perfectly willing to take a look at your evidence and consider it against the official story, but the minute you start saying it's a huge conspiracy by a group or entire race to control the entire world, you lose my interest.

If you just stood up and said "the government is lying", I could accept that. If you said that the Bush administration staged 9/11 in order to have reason to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, I *might* be able to accept that. If you said it was all done so that Bush would have a chance to win re-election, I could see that a little easier.

But when you start telling me that Free-masons and Jews planted spies in Israel and in the Bush Administration and have manipulated events in order to gain a stranglehold on US politics and Middle East oil reserves....that's a wee bit harder to swallow, sorry. (Note: Damned if I know if that's what you believe, I'm just throwing out an example) Don't tell me that the Illuminati are using 9/11 to control the world; I can't accept that sort of thing. If there's some massive world organization that's secretly controlling all these things, why the fuck are you still alive? I mean seriously, why would they let you live? Lately you've been saying that more and more people are believing the types of things that you post, but how would this glorious NWO allow such a thing?

If they can orchestrate the deaths of thousands, manipulate countries into two military engagements, and possibly have shaped the events of the last few centuries, don't you think they'd have a really easy time killing you and others like Alex Jones without much fuss or investigation?

5/1/2006 5:49:51 PM

I LIKE HOW TRIKK NEVER BACKED UP HIS DOWNING STREET CLAIMS

5/1/2006 11:25:54 PM

METHOS FRESH AND FULL OF FUN

5/1/2006 11:37:28 PM

If they can orchestrate the deaths of thousands, manipulate countries into two military engagements, and possibly have shaped the events of the last few centuries, don't you think they'd have a really easy time controlling the circulation of the minutes of their meetings?

Of course, only sheep question the authenticity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

5/1/2006 11:44:14 PM

methos, you raised a lot of important issues and questions

Quote :

"I think people would have an easier time accepting or at least considering what you post if you would lay off the whole Zionist/Jew/etc conspiracy. I'd be perfectly willing to take a look at your evidence and consider it against the official story, but the minute you start saying it's a huge conspiracy by a group or entire race to control the entire world, you lose my interest. If you just stood up and said "the government is lying", I could accept that. If you said that the Bush administration staged 9/11 in order to have reason to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, I *might* be able to accept that. If you said it was all done so that Bush would have a chance to win re-election, I could see that a little easier. But when you start telling me that Free-masons and Jews planted spies in Israel and in the Bush Administration and have manipulated events in order to gain a stranglehold on US politics and Middle East oil reserves....that's a wee bit harder to swallow, sorry. (Note: Damned if I know if that's what you believe, I'm just throwing out an example) Don't tell me that the Illuminati are using 9/11 to control the world; I can't accept that sort of thing."

I'm not going to "sugar coat" or play down the facts (or what I perceive to be the facts). Based on all the research I've done into these issues, I have found that our elected politicians are merely the puppets of a group controlling the government. And there is a large body of evidence to support the fact that this group controlling Western governments is a group of elite Zionist Jews linked to international banking. All the evidence shows that it is Zionist Jews who wield tremendous power in the Western world--in banking/finance, the mainstream media, over elected government, etc. Furthermore, upon investigating the religion of Talmudic Judaism, you will discover a religious and philosophical foundation for their drive to accumilate power and--yes--ultimately world domination. It may sound too hard to believe, but it's true.

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"If there's some massive world organization that's secretly controlling all these things, why the fuck are you still alive? I mean seriously, why would they let you live? Lately you've been saying that more and more people are believing the types of things that you post, but how would this glorious NWO allow such a thing? If they can orchestrate the deaths of thousands, manipulate countries into two military engagements, and possibly have shaped the events of the last few centuries, don't you think they'd have a really easy time killing you and others like Alex Jones without much fuss or investigation?"

Just because this criminal group has not killed all people who have some knowledge of their activities does not mean the conspiracy does not exist. And they have now grown so powerful that they do not fear the population gaining more knowledge of their activities--because they believe it has passed the point where they can be stopped.

They also have the power of the mainstream media to mold the opinion of the masses. The power of the MSM is diminishing with the rise of the internet, but the MSM is still very powerful. So I suspect they are quite confident that they can continue to direct the views of the people as they wish. And they have conditioned people via the MSM, Hollywood, the education system, and their control over religious institutions to view Jews as "God's chosen people", and that any criticism of them is "anti-Semitic", evil, and wrong. The "Holocaust" story acts as a further immunity from crtiticism. All this acts as a barrier for people ultimately opposing them.

Also, they cannot kill everyone that has too much knowledge. There are tens of millions of people in the West who know that 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated by the Zionists, for instance. They can't go after all these people. They will, however, take out prominent individuals (eg, high-profile ex-government officials) who speak out if they are exposing too much.

Finally, they actually infiltrate, direct, and control many of the supposed opposition organizations--including many of the people/groups prominent in the "9/11 truth movement." You will be able to recognize these controlled organizations by the fact that they avoid the Israeli/Zionist connection to 9/11 and try to place the blame solely on the Bush Administration or any of the other expendable politicians. And even though I respect much of what Alex Jones has done, he downplays and ignores the Zionist role in all of this. For instance, in all of his films and on his radio show, he almost completely ignores the Mossad agents found in connection to 9/11. I highly suspect that Jones is being pressured (at the very least) by outside forces to avoid the entire Zionist connection to all of this.

They do not care if people believe that solely Bush, Cheney, or just a few others in the elected government are responsible for 9/11. The politicians, as I said before, are their puppets. They can just replace them with someone else they control, and their power remains unaffected.

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"Please, please stop making references to 1984. From the ones I've seen you do, it's obvious that you have no understanding of the world that was portrayed in that book."

I do understand the world portrayed in the novel, and I read it just around 1 year ago.

Quote :

"We do not live in an Orwellian world, this is not 1984, this is not Oceania. If we did, you would not exist. You would have vanished a long time ago. In fact, TWW wouldn't exist, and no evidence of any conspiracy behind 9/11 or the Iraq War would exist. Hell, I'm sure lots of people on TWW would have vanished by now, not just you."

While it is true that we do not currently live in a world exactly as that in 1984, the point is that our world is approaching the one in the novel.

Even MSM sources are admitting this, using the term "Big Brother" to refer to the government, etc:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/timesstar/oped/ci_3337465

Quote :

"Big Brother is watching Alameda Times Star 12/23/2005 IT took 21 years longer than expected, but the future has finally arrived. And we don't like it. Not one bit. We are fighting a war with no end to create a peace with no defined victory. We occupy a foreign land that doesn't want us, while at home our civil liberties are discounted. We are told that it's better not to know what our government is doing in our name, for security purposes. Meanwhile, our government is becoming omnipresent, spying on us whenever it deems it necessary. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. George Orwell was right after all."

[Edited on May 2, 2006 at 8:36 AM. Reason : ``````````]

5/2/2006 8:21:55 AM

see?

when you provide any rational discussion with him, he disregards it and continues on with the same shit.

why this is allowed to continue is mind boggling.

5/2/2006 8:58:31 AM

dude...its like...he thinks he is robert langdon or something....he is an example of someone who is so bored and so illcontent with his life that he has to create these conspiracies which proceede to consume his life. Granted, he isnt the only one. There a a few more people like him (though he would claim there are lots...mostly due to the fact thathe lives in his own little word and goes out looking for this stuff)

i cant just imagine at one point he had some sense and was normal...but i really think he might be OCD or something because he finds some little thing and latches onto it and it becomes his life. These things come and go though. Like his religion obviously (he would claim otherwise but we all know better) .....anyway...its just sad...

5/2/2006 9:20:12 AM

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"see? when you provide any rational discussion with him, he disregards it and continues on with the same shit."

What the hell are you talking about? I just posted a lengthy, well-thought-out response to methos because he is clearly trying to have a serious discussion on these issues. He wants to have a real debate.

You, Mr. Joshau, and the trolls like Woodfoot and JonHGuth, on the other hand, are not interested in a real debate on these issues. You're only interested in spamming the thread and insulting me.

5/2/2006 9:24:34 AM

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"Finally, they actually infiltrate, direct, and control many of the supposed opposition organizations--including many of the people/groups prominent in the "9/11 truth movement." You will be able to recognize these controlled organizations by the fact that they avoid the Israeli/Zionist connection to 9/11 and try to place the blame solely on the Bush Administration or any of the other expendable politicians. And even though I respect much of what Alex Jones has done, he downplays and ignores the Zionist role in all of this. For instance, in all of his films and on his radio show, he almost completely ignores the Mossad agents found in connection to 9/11. I highly suspect that Jones is being pressured (at the very least) by outside forces to avoid the entire Zionist connection to all of this. "

Ok, see? Right here is where everything falls apart for me. It really seems like at this point you've become so engrossed in this Zionist plot that if anyone starts to discount or ignore it, you start to assume that they've been compromised or pressured, or part of the plot to begin with. You realize that makes it kinda difficult to debate with you, right?

So we have an organization that is so powerful that they control the politicians, the military, and god knows what else. They even control both sides of certain arguments, correct? And now they're so assured of their own victory that they won't even eliminate the potential problem of "10s of millions" of people questioning their cover story. So at this point, why is this group still hiding? After everything they've done and everything they now supposedly control, why haven't they instituted totalitarian rule by now? Seems like they wouldn't have much trouble doing so if everything you claim (that doesn't contradict itself) is true.

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"The power of the MSM is diminishing with the rise of the internet, but the MSM is still very powerful."

Sorry, I have a really hard time putting so much faith in the internet. Considering the kind of crap I've seen across the length and width of the world wide web, I'm not sure you could put so much hope in it being the glorious weapon against the evil MSM.

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"And they have conditioned people via the MSM, Hollywood, the education system, and their control over religious institutions to view Jews as "God's chosen people", and that any criticism of them is "anti-Semitic", evil, and wrong. The "Holocaust" story acts as a further immunity from crtiticism. All this acts as a barrier for people ultimately opposing them."

eeeeehhhh...ok, sure. I could sorta see the conditioning via the MSM, but nothing recent in Hollywood makes me think it could be used to condition people to that kind of opinion. Education system, again, no, not really. And religious institutions? Come again? When most religions claim that their believers are the only ones going to Heaven and all others go to Hell, how does that condition me to glorify Jews?

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"They can't go after all these people."

Oh I don't know. I could think up a few ways, and I'm not even religious. So just imagine what your evil Jews could think of!

Oh hey, while we're on the subject (and please, just a simple YES or NO to this), these Jews you keep mentioning that control the world, these are the sorta-but-not-quite Jews that aren't the "true Israelites", correct? Just curious if that conspiracy goes hand in hand with this one. (Again, please, just yes or no. I'll read the other thread if I want to know about the sorta not quite Jews)

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"While it is true that we do not currently live in a world exactly as that in 1984, the point is that our world is approaching the one in the novel."

Hardly. But I don't want to turn this thread into a 1984 discussion (changing the subject is disinformation after all!), so I'll stop there.

5/2/2006 9:52:45 AM

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"So at this point, why is this group still hiding? After everything they've done and everything they now supposedly control, why haven't they instituted totalitarian rule by now? "

Well, for one, in the United States Americans are still armed (still having the right to bear arms). They will most likely try to destroy lawful firearm ownership before trying to implement complete totalitarian rule. And they have destroyed lawful firearm ownership in many Western nations.

And they are advancing in their agenda to implement totalitarian rule by establishing a police state in the Western World--ie, surveillance cameras everywhere, national ID cards, biometric scanning, plans for microchipping the population, cashless society, etc. The agenda is going ahead full-speed.

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"eeeeehhhh...ok, sure. I could sorta see the conditioning via the MSM, but nothing recent in Hollywood makes me think it could be used to condition people to that kind of opinion."

I should have explicitly mentioned the television industry as well. TV and Hollywood have a profound effect in molding society's views. And they use these mediums to demonize anyone who criticizes Jews. There are numerous films and television shows on the "Holocaust", reinforcing that story and further immunizing Jews from all criticism. And many television shows demonize and present all critics of Jewish/Zionist power as "neo-Nazis" and "White Supremacists", conditioning the population to see anyone who talks about the Zionist power in the world and on our government as "evil" and "paranoid", etc.

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"And religious institutions? Come again? When most religions claim that their believers are the only ones going to Heaven and all others go to Hell, how does that condition me to glorify Jews?"

Most Christian denominations--and especially fundamentalist ones--teach their followers that the so-called "Jews" are "God's Chosen people" and are the descendants of the Israelites (which is FALSE). This makes the "Jews" virtually immune from criticism in the eyes of these people--especially in regard to the things the state of Israel does against the Palestinians. It makes Christians falsely believe that the "Jews" are their friends--when in fact they are our worst enemies.

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"Oh hey, while we're on the subject (and please, just a simple YES or NO to this), these Jews you keep mentioning that control the world, these are the sorta-but-not-quite Jews that aren't the "true Israelites", correct? Just curious if that conspiracy goes hand in hand with this one. "

YES. Virtually all of the people calling themselves "Jews" are NOT the descendants of the Israelites.

5/2/2006 10:13:21 AM

OH HERE WE GO WITH THAT EDOMITE BULLSHIT AGAIN

5/2/2006 10:23:13 AM

5/2/2006 11:02:42 AM

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"Most Christian denominations--and especially fundamentalist ones--teach their followers that the so-called "Jews" are "God's Chosen people" and are the descendants of the Israelites (which is FALSE)."

Apparently I missed that part of Sunday School. Seriously, I don't recall anything of that sort during my few years in sunday school and church. They either never brought it up or didn't really push it very hard.

In any case, I again ask, why would religions other than Judaism popularize the idea that only Jews are the chosen people? What's the point of people being Christian, Protestant, or whatever if those religions are just going to tell you that only the Jews are going to Heaven and everyone else is doomed for Hell? Doesn't seem like a good way to bring in supporters...

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"There are numerous films and television shows on the "Holocaust", reinforcing that story and further immunizing Jews from all criticism."

Exactly how does that immunize them from criticism? (Kindly answer this before you respond to what follows)

I can criticize someone fairly easily without referring to their race or religion. Besides, there are numerous films and shows that talk about African-American slavery, segregation, and the Civil War, but last I checked they're not completely immune from criticism. So where's the difference?

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"Well, for one, in the United States Americans are still armed (still having the right to bear arms). They will most likely try to destroy lawful firearm ownership before trying to implement complete totalitarian rule. And they have destroyed lawful firearm ownership in many Western nations."

I'd be curious to know the percentage of American households that do own guns. But don't bother finding it, it's not really important.

I guess I should be more specific about "taking control". I guess you think that I'm wondering why they don't just stand up tomorrow and say "Hey America! We're taking over!" and then we can all have this glorious revolution where we fight for our freedom and the common man triumphs over evil etc etc.

No. What I'm wondering is why they just can't skip the whole "puppet figure" crap and just get their own people elected into all the important offices and then just happily knock out our freedoms one after another. No influencing politicians, no mis-informing the american public. The group just gets itself elected into position to control Senate, House, Presidency, military, etc, the whole thing, simple and easy. If that sort of thing happened, do you honestly think a bunch of Americans with legal firearms would have a chance?

5/2/2006 11:18:27 AM

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"Apparently I missed that part of Sunday School. Seriously, I don't recall anything of that sort during my few years in sunday school and church. They either never brought it up or didn't really push it very hard."

Well, that's your own personal experience. But it is an undeniable fact that most Christian Churches teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites.

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"What's the point of people being Christian, Protestant, or whatever if those religions are just going to tell you that only the Jews are going to Heaven and everyone else is doomed for Hell?"

I don't know where you are getting this, or if you are just making it all up. Look. Most Christian denominations do not teach that only the "Jews" are going to Heaven. That's ridiculous. My point is that they teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites.

Quote :

"Exactly how does that immunize them from criticism? (Kindly answer this before you respond to what follows)"

It's obvious how the "Holocaust" story (which is largely false btw) shields them from criticism. It is supposed to make everyone view the "Jews" as this "blameless and persecuted minority" that is just "hated for no reason" all throughout history. It makes it out so that anyone who criticizes the Jews is suddenly the likes of a Nazi, and allows the smear term "anti-Semitic" to have such a sting, which effectively silences all opposition to this Jewish/Zionist power.

People are scared to be labelled "anti-Semitic", so they don't resist or speak out. You can be fired from your job--especially in the case of public figures, journalists, and tv personalities--if you are critical of the Jews and accused of being an "anti-Semite." The Jewish/Zionist-controlled MSM will have a field day on any prominent figure who criticizes the Jews and will attempt to assassinate their character and destroy their reputation.

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"No. What I'm wondering is why they just can't skip the whole "puppet figure" crap and just get their own people elected into all the important offices and then just happily knock out our freedoms one after another. No influencing politicians, no mis-informing the american public. The group just gets itself elected into position to control Senate, House, Presidency, military, etc, the whole thing, simple and easy."

They are starting to place their people in overt positions of power in the government, and have been for years. For instance, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board (which some say is more powerful than the President) has almost always been a Jew (in fact, every single Fed Chairman may have been Jewish). And no one can deny the influence of the many Jewish neo-cons (eg, PNAC members) on the Bush Administration. And Clinton stacked his Administration with Jews (eg, Labor Secretary Robert Reich, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Secretary of Defense William Cohen, Secretary of Treasury Robert Rubin, CIA Chief George Tenet, FBI Chief Louis Freeh, etc.).

Also, if you notice, many of the most prominent U.S. Senators (ie, who frequently are interviewed on television, etc) are Jewish--ie, Arlen Specter, Chuck Schumer, Carl Levin, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, etc. Several recent U.S. Presidents may very well have been Jewish (but hid their Jewish ancestry)--including FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, and Lyndon Johnson. And let me emphasize that I said they may have been Jewish. And before you think that is just "nuts" to think that, let me remind you that John Kerry (though supposedly a Catholic) revealed his Jewish ancestry shortly before the last Presidential race. Wesley Clark did the same thing.

But you make a good point. In the past, they placed fewer Jews in overt positions of power in government in order to mask their power, and placed non-Jewish agents/puppets in government positions and relied on their influence (ie, "lobbying" power). But as the power of this hidden Zionist Cabal has grown, there is less reason for them to hide their power and they have started to place more and more of their brethren (who they can trust more fully) in positions of power.

And they aren't going to take all our freedoms away at once. That won't work. As recent history shows, they are using the tactic of incrementalism to take away our freedoms--ie, destroying them slowly so that the people notice it less and are less likely to resist.

Furthermore, taking the view of the despots themselves, the best type of tyranny is one that is hidden to those who are enslaved. And it is best for the despots to be hidden as well. This is obvious. So this is why they are concealing their power and taking way freedom slowly.

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"If that sort of thing happened, do you honestly think a bunch of Americans with legal firearms would have a chance?"

Well we certainly have a better chance with firearms than without firearms. And it is better to fight, than to lay down and submit to becomming a slave. And these people not only want to enslave us, but they want to exterminate us. We are fighting for our lives, not only our freedom. And when you are RIGHT and fighting for what is good and just, it does not matter how bad the odds are or how bad it looks for your side. You fight evil no matter the cost--and especially when your life and freedom is on the line.

And finally, we already have the victory. God is on our side, and he will defeat the forces of evil, especially these Talmudic modern-day Pharisee false "Jews" who are Satan's army here on earth. They will be smashed, and God's true Israelite people will be victorious. That is for certain.


[Edited on May 2, 2006 at 12:17 PM. Reason : ``````````]

5/2/2006 11:54:41 AM

why not fight them over there before they come here?

why arent you in israel right now?

trikk never answered my question about downing street, and hes not going to, because he apparently makes baseless claims

5/2/2006 12:03:49 PM

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"You, Mr. Joshau, and the trolls like Woodfoot and JonHGuth, on the other hand, are not interested in a real debate on these issues. You're only interested in spamming the thread and insulting me."

1) I didn't make the statement that you responded to with this post. That was 30thAnnZ. Will you just use any excuse to attack me?

2) Why is it spamming if I repeat unanswered questions, but its fine for you to repost the same thing in the same thread five times?

3) Once again you are slandering anyone who thinks differently than you. Is that a part of the "serious and respectful discussion" that you claim to want? I avoid insults because it detracts from our serious discussion. You, however, have no problem with it.

5/2/2006 12:21:56 PM

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"I don't know where you are getting this, or if you are just making it all up. Look. Most Christian denominations do not teach that only the "Jews" are going to Heaven. That's ridiculous. My point is that they teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites."

They don't teach that only the Jews are going to Heaven, yet they teach that Jews are "God's Chosen People"? Doesn't the latter imply the former?

And ok, separate question. So the churches teach that Jews are the descendents of the Israelites. And? I still fail to see how that should influence someone so heavily that they never question a Jew. Don't talk to me about MSM or Anti-semitic or labels right now. I'm just curious about the churches and the religious influence at this point. Do Chrisitians worship Jews then?

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"Well, that's your own personal experience. But it is an undeniable fact that most Christian Churches teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites."

So my personal experience means nothing? Or is it not enough? What was your personal experience, and does it carry more weight than mine?

And how is it undeniable fact? I'd like to see how you came to that conclusion. And if you start quoting the Bible, that's not going to do it. I'm not trying to discount your argument before you give it, it's just that interpretations and practices vary. Just because the Bible says it, that doesn't mean a particular church or sect will teach it.

And hell, why not ask for the personal experiences of others if that will help? Any one else paying attention to this thread carry to share yours? Baptist, Protestant, whatever, speak up. In your experience, were you taught in church that Jews are "God's Chosen People"? And if so, was it taught in such a way that it influenced your opinion towards Jews?

5/2/2006 12:31:43 PM

Quote :

"They don't teach that only the Jews are going to Heaven, yet they teach that Jews are "God's Chosen People"? Doesn't the latter imply the former?"

You raise an interesting point. The Bible, in fact, may teach (when translated and interpreted correctly) that only true Israelites can "go to Heaven" and obtain everlasting life. Nevertheless, most Christian churches teach something far different. They teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites, but they also teach that non-Israelites can also go to Heaven. That is quite clear. I don't think you could find one mainstream Christian Church that teaches that only the "Jews" can go to Heaven.

The Israelites are "God's Chosen People." IE, the term "God's Chosen People" is a label applied to the Israelites (based upon Biblical scripture). All the label basically means is that the Israelites were chosen by God to be his special people. The Old Testament is primarily about the Israelites. The 10 Commandments and all the other laws were only given to the Israelites by God. He did not interact with any other race of people in this way.

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"And ok, separate question. So the churches teach that Jews are the descendents of the Israelites. And? I still fail to see how that should influence someone so heavily that they never question a Jew. Don't talk to me about MSM or Anti-semitic or labels right now. I'm just curious about the churches and the religious influence at this point."

Taken alone, the belief that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites would not necessarily lead most people to never question or criticize a Jew. Nevertheless, for Christians who believe the "Jews" are the Israelites, it naturally causes them to be less critical and suspicious of Jews. They believe that the Jews are their friends. This false belief would cause most of them to scoff at the idea that Jews could be plotting against them, and--in fact--be their worst enemies. They would therefore be very adverse and not open to anyone who criticizes Jews. Many of them will blindly support the Jews, and immediately dismiss any criticism of Jews (no matter if that criticism is entirely valid).

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"So my personal experience means nothing? Or is it not enough?"

I'm not saying it means nothing. I'm just putting it in perspective in relation to the rest of the teaching of Christian denominations on the subject. You were just referring to your own church (and a "few years in sunday school and church").

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"And how is it undeniable fact? I'd like to see how you came to that conclusion."

I'm basing that conclusion (ie, that most Christian denominations teach their followers that the so-called "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites) on the views of all Christian Churches (as opposed to one church). It's not rocket science. It's pretty obvious. As far as I know, all the "mainstream" Christian denominations teach that the "Jews" are the Israelites. Pat Robertson, Jack Van Impe, Billy Graham, and virtually every prominent so-called "Christian" preacher you can think of teaches the same thing. A better inquiry would be to find a "mainstream" denomination or preacher that does not teach that the "Jews" are the desendants of the Israelites. It would be hard to find many.


[Edited on May 2, 2006 at 2:04 PM. Reason : ``````````]

5/2/2006 1:47:15 PM

Why is misdirecting conversation if I question your statements, but its perfectly okay for you to turn the 9/11 thread into one bashing how churches interpret the bible?

Who is avoiding a rational argument?

Same questions....22 pages later...

No, bin Laden didn't have any motive to carry out the 9/11 attacks.

Its not like he issued a fatwah or anything urging muslims to kill americans.

Keep ignoring evidence, little buddy.

Quote :

"Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998 Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh ... All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God." This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'" We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

Could you please address these questions? I'm not trying to redirect or distract here. I'm genuinely curious. You made statements regarding all of these questions in this very thread, I would just like you to explain them before moving on. I questioned these claims when they were originally made, but you ignored me. Why won't you answer them?

Why didn't they build a pipeline in 1998? Why did they blow up their own african embassies and then launch a missile attack on Afghanistan? They were set to build a natural gas pipeline with the Taliban then. Why mess that up for no reason?

You don't believe that Afghanistan was invaded for the sake of a pipeline? Then why are you defending that theory so stubbornly?

You just said that Afghanistan was invaded so that a pipeline could be built. Now you're saying that the zionists wanted to prevent the building of a pipeline - just like how Iraq was invaded to secure the oil supply even though the zionists don't care about the oil supply. How do you reconcile all of the conflicting information that you spout off on here?

By the way, how did the zionists cause the US Civil War and the Revolutionary War?

I would also like to see some proof that Pearl Harbor was caused by the evil edomite zionists.

You have provided absolutely no evidence at all that the Rothschilds are the zionists at the top running world events. They were a prominent family that supported the creation of a jewish state, that is all. Please provide some evidence other than "Here are some rich jews!"

So why should anyone believe your rantings anyway You have admitted that you hate jews. As such, you are far from an impartial source when you blame jews for every problem in the world.

So when was the Israeli false flag terrorist attack in Washington state?

Why is it spamming if I repeat unanswered questions, but it's ok for you to repost the same article in the same thread five times?

5/2/2006 2:21:51 PM

Quote :

"But it is an undeniable fact that most Christian Churches teach that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites. "

and that has nothing to do with your claim that churches teach that the jews are beyond criticism...stop leaping to conclusion and making connections that dont exist

5/2/2006 3:19:34 PM

Quote :

"...your claim that churches teach that the jews are beyond criticism"

I never stated that "churches teach that the jews are beyond criticism."

Stop setting up blatant strawman arguments.

5/2/2006 4:25:57 PM

^^

Quote :

"making connections that dont exist"

how about people making baseless claims? like you?

5/2/2006 4:28:39 PM

^^ it is obvious that you have no better an understanding of what a strawman is than aaronburro.

5/2/2006 4:29:59 PM

Quote :

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

5/2/2006 4:34:35 PM

Quote :

"Taken alone, the belief that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites would not necessarily lead most people to never question or criticize a Jew. Nevertheless, for Christians who believe the "Jews" are the Israelites, it naturally causes them to be less critical and suspicious of Jews. They believe that the Jews are their friends. This false belief would cause most of them to scoff at the idea that Jews could be plotting against them, and--in fact--be their worst enemies. They would therefore be very adverse and not open to anyone who criticizes Jews. Many of them will blindly support the Jews, and immediately dismiss any criticism of Jews (no matter if that criticism is entirely valid)."

Now I'm not sure if you're criticizing Jews or Christians.

Quote :

"It's not rocket science. It's pretty obvious. As far as I know, all the "mainstream" Christian denominations teach that the "Jews" are the Israelites . . . A better inquiry would be to find a "mainstream" denomination or preacher that does not teach that the "Jews" are the desendants of the Israelites. It would be hard to find many."

Ok, no offense, but your debate skills need work. I ask a question, and your response is that it's obvious and that I'd be better off proving the reverse? Come on. Throw me a bone over here.

Quote :

"I'm just putting it in perspective in relation to the rest of the teaching of Christian denominations on the subject."

No, you're putting it in perspective in relation to your opinion. That's somewhat different.

Quote :

"Why is misdirecting conversation if I question your statements, but its perfectly okay for you to turn the 9/11 thread into one bashing how churches interpret the bible?"

Well, in all fairness, isn't that actually my fault?

5/2/2006 4:35:19 PM

Quote :

"Well, in all fairness, isn't that actually my fault? "

It was quite the ridiculous question wasn't it? Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling.

5/2/2006 4:36:52 PM

ok salis...serious question....how do you know what is taught in most churches??...you said that methos believed something "based on his personal experience"...but wouldnt everything you believe be based on your personel experience? ...im just thinking that it would be tough to say that ALL churches teach a particular thing....and much harder to say that they instill some particular mindset about jewish people

5/2/2006 5:25:06 PM

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

Quote :

"Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

5/2/2006 5:43:28 PM

Why is it trolling if I repeat unanswered questions, but it's ok for you to repost the same article in the same thread five times?

Who is avoiding a rational argument?

Same questions....23 pages later...

No, bin Laden didn't have any motive to carry out the 9/11 attacks.

Its not like he issued a fatwah or anything urging muslims to kill americans.

Keep ignoring evidence, little buddy.

Quote :

"Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998 Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh ... All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God." This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'" We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson."

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

Could you please address these questions? I'm not trying to redirect or distract here. I'm genuinely curious. You made statements regarding all of these questions in this very thread, I would just like you to explain them before moving on. I questioned these claims when they were originally made, but you ignored me. Why won't you answer them?

Why didn't they build a pipeline in 1998? Why did they blow up their own african embassies and then launch a missile attack on Afghanistan? They were set to build a natural gas pipeline with the Taliban then. Why mess that up for no reason?

You don't believe that Afghanistan was invaded for the sake of a pipeline? Then why are you defending that theory so stubbornly?

You just said that Afghanistan was invaded so that a pipeline could be built. Now you're saying that the zionists wanted to prevent the building of a pipeline - just like how Iraq was invaded to secure the oil supply even though the zionists don't care about the oil supply. How do you reconcile all of the conflicting information that you spout off on here?

By the way, how did the zionists cause the US Civil War and the Revolutionary War?

I would also like to see some proof that Pearl Harbor was caused by the evil edomite zionists.

You have provided absolutely no evidence at all that the Rothschilds are the zionists at the top running world events. They were a prominent family that supported the creation of a jewish state, that is all. Please provide some evidence other than "Here are some rich jews!"

So why should anyone believe your rantings anyway You have admitted that you hate jews. As such, you are far from an impartial source when you blame jews for every problem in the world.

So when was the Israeli false flag terrorist attack in Washington state?

5/2/2006 6:17:45 PM

is there any good evidence showing flight 93 being shot down? is that the consensus w /the conspiracy theorists?

5/2/2006 7:00:35 PM

Quote :

"Taken alone, the belief that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites would not necessarily lead most people to never question or criticize a Jew. Nevertheless, for Christians who believe the "Jews" are the Israelites, it naturally causes them to be less critical and suspicious of Jews. They believe that the Jews are their friends. This false belief would cause most of them to scoff at the idea that Jews could be plotting against them, and--in fact--be their worst enemies. They would therefore be very adverse and not open to anyone who criticizes Jews. Many of them will blindly support the Jews, and immediately dismiss any criticism of Jews (no matter if that criticism is entirely valid)."

So, sorta coming back to this, you realize this is just your opinion, right?

And obviously, it appears to only relate to Christians. So what about Muslims? Athiests, Fatalists, etc? Since they haven't had this kind of supposed teaching about the Jews, how will they look at them?

Also, is there a difference between these false descendents of Israelites and people who just convert to Judaism? I mean, how do I tell the difference between an evil Jew and maybe just a misguided Jew?

Quote :

"It's not rocket science. It's pretty obvious. As far as I know, all the "mainstream" Christian denominations teach that the "Jews" are the Israelites . . . A better inquiry would be to find a "mainstream" denomination or preacher that does not teach that the "Jews" are the desendants of the Israelites. It would be hard to find many."

Still waiting for a better response than this for my question about these teachings being undeniable fact. Telling me something is obvious is not debate, it's just more opinion.

Quote :

"It was quite the ridiculous question wasn't it? Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

I didn't say it was ridiculous. And no, he's not really trolling, at least not by comparison. I have to agree with him that it's somewhat unfair that you can post the same articles multiple times but he can't ask the same question multiple times.

And some of the questions he asks I'm curious about too, particularly the "how/why the zionist group started/influenced the Civil and Revolutionary Wars". Considering this zionist group is at the heart of all this, be nice to know more about them and what they've supposedly done.

5/2/2006 7:24:43 PM

don't let him back down either

he BLATANTLY said the zionists caused every major conflict for the last ~400 years

the revolutionary war is pretty fucking major
the civil war is pretty fucking major

apparently now asking this fuckin' guy to back up his claims is trolling

THIS FUCKIN' GUY

5/3/2006 12:23:53 AM

i don't even read this thread, and it still makes me laugh

5/3/2006 12:47:17 AM

[Edited on May 3, 2006 at 12:53 AM. Reason : meh]

5/3/2006 12:52:46 AM

we've got two dumbasses in here

sals with his edomite shit

and trikk with his claim that "everyone knows the downing st. memo was crap" which he never backed up. hes pulling a sals by dodging the big issue here.

5/3/2006 2:29:43 AM

Quote :

"is there any good evidence showing flight 93 being shot down?"

Yes, there is evidence indicating Flight 93 (or something) was shot down over Pennsylvania:

Debri from Flight 93 found miles away from main crash site
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

Quote :

"...focus of investigators as they widened their search area today following the discoveries of more debris, including what appeared to be human remains, miles from the point of impact at a reclaimed coal mine. Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains. Some residents said they collected bags-full of items to be turned over to investigators. Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly six miles from the immediate crash scene."

Eyewitnesses hear "booms" before the aircraft went down
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912crashnat2p2.asp

Quote :

"Some witnesses reported that the plane was flying upside down for a time before the crash; others said they heard up to three loud booms before the jetliner went down."

Eyewitnesses see military plane flying near Flight 93 when it crashed
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30682

Quote :

"Was United Flight 93 shot down on Sept. 11? January 25, 2003 © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com Echoing reports made immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, several eyewitnesses claim in a report by London's Daily Mirror that they saw a "military-type" plane flying around United Airlines Flight 93 when the hijacked passenger jet crashed in rural Pennsylvania -- prompting the unthinkable question of whether the U.S. military shot down the plane."

Many local residents of Shanksville believe Flight 93 was shot down; eyewitnesses see no evidence of plane wreckage at crash site
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/9-11_mysteries.html

Quote :

"American Free Press visited Somerset County to look into some of the questions surrounding United Airlines Flight 93, which allegedly turned over and crashed in a refilled strip mine between Lambertsville and Shanksville, Pa., taking 44 lives with it. Many local residents believe the plane was shot down, which they say would explain why parts of the plane and its contents were found strewn over a large area. One question, “is what happened to the physical wreckage of the plane?” “There was no plane,” Ernie Stull, mayor of Shanksville, told German television in March 2003: [...] “They had been sent here because of a crash, but there was no plane?” the reporter asked. “No. Nothing. Only this hole.” When AFP asked Stull about his comments, he disagreed about when he had gone to the crash site. “A day or two later,” Stull said, was about when he went to the site. But he reiterated the fact that they saw little evidence of a plane crash. Nena Lensbouer, who had prepared lunch for the workers at the scrap yard overlooking the crash site, was the first person to go up to the smoking crater. Lensbouer told AFP that the hole was five to six feet deep and smaller than the 24-foot trailer in her front yard. She described hearing “an explosion, like an atomic bomb”—not a crash. Lensbouer called 911 and stayed on the line as she ran across the reclaimed land of the former strip mine to within 15 feet of the smoking crater. Lensbouer told AFP that she did not see any evidence of a plane then or at any time during the excavation at the site, an effort that reportedly recovered 95 percent of the plane and 10 percent of the human remains."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42112

Quote :

"Rumsfeld says 9-11 plane 'shot down' in Pennsylvania December 27, 2004 © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com During his surprise Christmas Eve trip to Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld referred to the flight being shot down – long a suspicion because of the danger the flight posed to Washington landmarks and population centers. Was it a slip of the tongue? Was it an error? Or was it the truth, finally being dropped on the public more than three years after the tragedy of the terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000? Here's what Rumsfeld said Friday: "I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten – indeed the word 'terrorized' is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be." Several eyewitnesses to the crash claim they saw a "military-type" plane flying around United Airlines Flight 93 when the hijacked passenger jet crashed – prompting the once-unthinkable question of whether the U.S. military shot down the plane."

Quote :

"And some of the questions he asks I'm curious about too, particularly the "how/why the zionist group started/influenced the Civil and Revolutionary Wars". "

Well Zionism (as a named movement) did not begin until the late 19th century. However, my point is that the Jewish international bankers (and primarily the Rothschild family) had a major role in those wars. Here's an article on the Rothschild and Jewish banker connection to the Civil War (and I'm not saying this is the best article out there, it's just one I found through a quick google search):

http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/illuminati/civil_war_and_the_role_of_Illuminati.htm

Quote :

"The Civil War and the Role of the Illuminati The American Civil War, in a very real sense, was the continuation of the Revolutionary war fought by our Founders against the Bank of England. The Civil War was planned in London by Rothschild who wanted two American democracies, each burdened with debt. Four years before the war (1857) Rothschild decided his Paris bank would support the South, represented by Sen. John Slidell, JEW, from Louisiana; while the British branch would support the North, represented by August Belmont (Schoenberg) JEW, from New York. The plan was to bankroll, at usurious interest rates, the huge war debts that were anticipated, using that debt to extort both sides into accepting a Rothschild central-banking system similar to the one that had bled (and is bleeding) the nations of Europe, keeping them in conditions of perpetual war, insolvency and at the mercy of JEW speculators."

5/3/2006 8:05:10 AM

ahahahahaha

hes not a DEM

or a REP

nope

hes a JEW

5/3/2006 10:11:20 AM

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/cutter_charges_brought_down_wt.html

Quote :

"Professor Says ‘Cutter Charges’ Brought Down WTC Buildings Evidence of Thermite Uncovered at World Trade Center By Christopher Bollyn [...] The unexplained presence of molten metal at the World Trade Center (WTC) puzzled Jones and he contacted this writer to confirm the reports first published in American Free Press in 2002. These reports came from two men involved in the removal of the rubble: Peter Tully of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., and Mark Loizeaux of Controlled Demolition, Inc. of Phoenix, Md. Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” in the rubble. Loizeaux confirmed this: “Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,” he said, “at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.” The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,” he said. He confirmed that molten steel was also found at WTC 7, which mysteriously collapsed in the late afternoon. [...] Because thermite does not require air and can react underwater, it may explain the persistent hot spots that were unaffected by a continuous dousing from fire hoses. The white-hot molten iron and slag can itself prolong and extend the heating and incendiary action. “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running,” Leslie Robertson, structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, told fellow engineers. [...] AFP contacted three scientists who support the official theory to ask if they would review Jones’s paper. Thomas W. Eagar of MIT refused to even look at the paper and said there is no evidence of molten metal pouring from the WTC. Challenged with the evidence, he hung up the phone. Zdenek P. Bazant of Northwestern University submitted his fire-induced collapse theory to the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) two days after 9-11, without examining any evidence. Asked if he would review Jones’s paper, Bazant also refused, “I have seen Jones’s fiction before. If you want my private opinion, it is nothing but sensationalism,” he said. “His purported refutation of my analysis is baseless.” Asked to simply look at five photos in an e-mail showing the cascading molten metal and core columns, which appear to have been cut with thermite, Bazant responded, “I do not have time.” Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, an Iranian-born professor at Berkeley, who was a member of the ASCE team studying the WTC collapse, also refused to look at Jones’s paper. “I will not be able to find time to review the material that you have sent me,” said Astaneh-Asl."

Why are the so-called "experts" that support the "official" story so reluctant to even consider the evidence that may contradict the "official" story? They don't have a few minutes? Suuuure they don't. I thought scientists were supposed to constantly re-examine and test their theories and conclusions. It is clear that the "story" on what happened at the WTC is already fixed in their view. The "official" view is the orthodoxy, and there will be no questioning it.


[Edited on May 3, 2006 at 10:22 AM. Reason : ``````````]

5/3/2006 10:21:35 AM

you should totally send them a link to this thread

5/3/2006 10:41:07 AM

Jewish Zionist Judge Presides Over The Lone (Consolidated) 9-11 Victims' Families' Lawsuit; Israeli-Owned Company Headed Security at Boston and Newark Airports on 9-11; Jewish Zionist Heads 9-11 Victims' Compensation Fund; Jewish Zionist Law Firms Represent Victims' Families

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=87695

Quote :

"THE ZIONIST HIJACKING OF THE 9-11 VICTIM LAWSUITS Christopher Bollyn American Free Press [...] Today, Mariani, like the other 9-11 plaintiffs, is under a legal gag order which prevents her from speaking about her on-going lawsuit. Likewise, thousands of employees of federal agencies, such as the Federal Aviation Administration, have received secret gag orders in the mail preventing them from speaking about what they know about the events of 9-11. [...] And why has the Israeli-owned airline security company involved in the shocking security lapses, which apparently enabled the attacks of 9-11, been granted complete immunity by the U.S. Congress? All of the relatives' wrongful death lawsuits, i.e. criminal cases, against the airlines and their security companies were consolidated by the presiding judge into a negligence lawsuit, which, as a civil case, is much less likely to be argued or investigated in an open trial with a jury. All the 9-11 wrongful death and personal injury cases against either American Air Lines (AA) or United Air Lines or any of the foreign-owned airport security companies, namely Argenbright Security (British), Globe Aviation Services Corp. (Swedish), and Huntleigh USA Corp. (Israeli) have been handled by United States District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein of the Southern District of New York. In the case of at least one of these security defendants, Huntleigh USA, there would seem to be a serious conflict of interest for the judge because the airline security company who is responsible for the shocking security lapses at both the Boston and Newark airports on 9-11 is a wholly-owned subsidiary of an Israeli company (ICTS) headed by Israelis with clear ties to Israel's military intelligence agency, the Mossad. Judge Hellerstein, on the other hand, has deep and long-standing Zionist connections and close family ties to the state of Israel. A Zionist is a supporter of the Jewish state of Israel. Judge Hellerstein's wife, for example, is a former senior vice president and current treasurer of a New York-based Zionist organization called AMIT. AMIT promotes Jewish immigration to Israel and stands for Americans for Israel and Torah. AMIT's motto is "Building Israel – One Child at a Time." Judge Hellerstein, 73, is also a long-time member of The Jewish Center of New York and a former president of the Board of Jewish Education of Greater New York. This raises the obvious question about why, in the 9-11 terror case in which an Israeli security company is a key defendant and in which individuals from Israeli military intelligence are suspected of being involved, was Hellerstein chosen to preside over all 9-11 victim lawsuits – and who chose him? Huntleigh USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of an Israeli company called International Consultants on Targeted Security (ICTS) International N.V., a Netherlands-based aviation and transportation security firm headed by "former [Israeli] military commanding officers and veterans of government intelligence and security agencies." [...] Some victims' families brought lawsuits against Huntleigh claiming the Israeli-owned airport security firm had been grossly negligent on 9-11. While these relatives have a right to discovery and to know what Huntleigh did or did not do to protect their loved ones on 9-11, Huntleigh was granted complete congressional protection in 2002 and will not be called to account for its actions on 9-11 in any U.S. court. [...] Hellerstein, however, is not the only player overseeing the 9-11 litigation process who has close ties to Israel. In fact, all of the key players and law firms involved are either active Zionists or do a great deal of business representing Israeli companies and/or the state of Israel. Kenneth R. Feinberg, for example, the special master of the federally-funded Victims' Compensation Fund, is also a deeply dedicated Zionist. Feinberg single-handedly administered the $7 billion fund that paid out U.S. taxpayer money to some 97 percent of the families who could have otherwise used the courts to sue to recover tort damages for monetary loss and pain and suffering. Those who accepted the Feinberg administrated federal fund signed away their right to litigate against the government, the airlines or the security companies. This federally funded pay-off to the families effectively prevented the possibility for nearly every relative to obtain justice or truth through the legal process, which would have brought legal discovery of facts and events of 9-11. The Kenneth Feinberg Group is listed as one of the top ten supporters of the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies for 2004-2005. The Jerusalem Institute is an Israel-based Zionist organization that supports the building of the illegal separation wall across Palestine, for example. The Feinberg Group also lists as its clients major insurance and re-insurance companies such as Lloyd's of London. These are the companies who stood to lose billions of dollars if 9-11 victims' lawsuits had gone forward. Feinberg was appointed special master by then Attorney General John Ashcroft. Ashcroft, a dedicated Christian Zionist and supporter of such groups as Stand for Israel, is today working as a lobbyist for Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI), Israel’s major military aerospace company, which hired the former U.S. Attorney General to help secure the U.S. government’s approval to sell an Israeli weapons system to the South Korean Air Force."

There are Zionist fingerprints all over 9-11, and virtually anything connected to 9-11--including the lawyers for the victims' families, the manager of the 9-11 Victims' Fund, the judge presiding over the lone (consolidated) 9-11 Victim's families' lawsuit, etc. This way they can control all sides of the debate/issue.


Article here also:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/9-11_lawsuits_suppressed.html

5/3/2006 11:54:25 AM

i enjoy news sources named "rumor mill"

its like they know they're printing bullshit for crazy folks and they run with it

its not like there is a shortage of seemingly respectable url's going around

you don't have to pick something like "prisonplanet" or "rumormillnews"

do people realize that?

5/3/2006 12:13:13 PM

Right, I forgot. Those sources perceived as "mainstream" are the gatekeepers of all truth. Only the MSM can dispense the truth. The MSM never lies, and always tells the truth. Any source that is not "mainstream" is automatically "not credible." Anyone who disagrees with the MSM view on any subject is wrong, and is a "nutcase conspiracy theorist."

And it's not like the MSM has been caught lying to us over and over and over again. It's not like they suppress important information (eg, WTC Building 7, demolition of the twin towers, bombs in the Murrah Federal Building, etc.). No. Never.

The MSM deserves our infinite trust. People that trust non-MSM sources for information are clearly "fruitcakes." Only get your news from MSM sources.

5/3/2006 12:28:45 PM

keyloggers

5/3/2006 12:31:18 PM

I'm waiting.

Quote :

"Taken alone, the belief that the "Jews" are the descendants of the Israelites would not necessarily lead most people to never question or criticize a Jew. Nevertheless, for Christians who believe the "Jews" are the Israelites, it naturally causes them to be less critical and suspicious of Jews. They believe that the Jews are their friends. This false belief would cause most of them to scoff at the idea that Jews could be plotting against them, and--in fact--be their worst enemies. They would therefore be very adverse and not open to anyone who criticizes Jews. Many of them will blindly support the Jews, and immediately dismiss any criticism of Jews (no matter if that criticism is entirely valid)."

So, sorta coming back to this, you realize this is just your opinion, right?

And obviously, it appears to only relate to Christians. So what about Muslims? Athiests, Fatalists, etc? Since they haven't had this kind of supposed teaching about the Jews, how will they look at them?

Also, is there a difference between these false descendents of Israelites and people who just convert to Judaism? I mean, how do I tell the difference between an evil Jew and maybe just a misguided Jew?

Quote :

"It's not rocket science. It's pretty obvious. As far as I know, all the "mainstream" Christian denominations teach that the "Jews" are the Israelites . . . A better inquiry would be to find a "mainstream" denomination or preacher that does not teach that the "Jews" are the desendants of the Israelites. It would be hard to find many."

Still waiting for a better response than this for my question about it being undeniable fact that these teachings are done in all/most Christian churches. Telling me something is obvious is not debate, it's just more opinion.

Quote :

"It was quite the ridiculous question wasn't it? Forget about Mr. Joshua. He's just trolling."

I didn't say it was ridiculous. And no, he's not really trolling, at least not by comparison. I have to agree with him that it's somewhat unfair that you can post the same articles multiple times but he can't ask the same question multiple times.

And some of the questions he asks I'm curious about too, particularly the "how/why the zionist group started/influenced the Civil and Revolutionary Wars". Considering this zionist group is at the heart of all this, be nice to know more about them and what they've supposedly done.

5/3/2006 12:36:40 PM

Quote :

"keyloggers"

So I make one mistake (or 2 or 3), and you expect people to never trust another thing I say? Keep dreaming there chief. I've already retracted my support for that story. And we all make mistakes.

Has the MSM ever made a mistake in your estimation? Newspapers make retractions and correct mistakes on a daily basis. They make thousands of mistakes. But you have no problem trusting them do you?

Besides, people don't have to trust me. Most of what I'm saying here in regard to 9/11 is backed up by MSM sources. I''ve provided the links to the articles and videos. Go back and check those sources if you don't believe me.

And even though I'm skeptical of the MSM, I use their sources because it is using establishment sources to discredit the establishment. It is using their own institutions and words to discredit them.

5/3/2006 12:38:34 PM

RUMORMILLNEWS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SECONDARY TO THE MSM

AND DO YOU KNOW WHY

BECAUSE IT HAS FUCKING NAMED ITSELF

RUMOR

MILL

NEWS

5/3/2006 12:41:09 PM

You mongoloid.

5/3/2006 12:41:27 PM

trolls

5/3/2006 12:46:38 PM