^^Thats a hypothetical question to the media, not a statement.

Remember when Russell got a concussion in his first starting game against SC? I bet no one in the media does....

If Russell Wilson still played for state, he would be considered an undersized, underarmed, second hand QB. Since he's playing at Wisconnsin (against argubly easier competition), hes the greatest thing since sliced bread and a top NFL prospect.

10/6/2011 4:58:55 PM

Quote :

"and a top NFL prospect."

Oh really?

10/6/2011 5:00:44 PM

Currently at 27-28 overall, 14–20 within conference.

10/6/2011 5:01:12 PM

I'm destined for NFL greatness

10/6/2011 5:01:14 PM

^
National Champion. (as a backup )

10/6/2011 5:02:07 PM

Nothing can stop me now

10/6/2011 5:02:33 PM

He took us from 3-9 to 9-4 in four years. You can't expect a trend upwards like that to sustain every year. He will, in all likelihood, have a much better season next year provided his team stays healthy.

He is not going to lose his job this year.

10/6/2011 8:28:21 PM

stop being rational

10/6/2011 8:33:19 PM

There's some blood in the water, whether its rational or not. If we end up 5-7 he may not be back. If he's fired with a sub .500 five year record (several games under within conference) it won't be entirely unjustifiable, or irrational.

10/6/2011 8:36:55 PM

Tom O'brien STILL has not won an Atlantic division road game.

That is mindboggling.

10/6/2011 8:42:12 PM

You don't become successful by having a five year revolving door at the coach's position....

10/6/2011 8:42:45 PM

you don't become successful by holding on to failing coaches.

doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

10/6/2011 8:44:05 PM

the same thing over and over like firing your coach every five years? Especially one who has shown flashes of brilliance?

10/6/2011 9:06:35 PM

we kept chuck for 7 years

in retrospect, cutting bait after 5 wouldve been a good thing

10/6/2011 9:08:10 PM

Hindsight is always 20/20

10/6/2011 9:09:25 PM

i'm on your side (so far), but "flashes of brilliance" is really pushing it.

10/6/2011 9:10:54 PM

This Astral guy thinks Archer is a good coach, pretty pointless to argue with him.

10/6/2011 9:17:14 PM

lol @ "flashes of brilliance"

10/6/2011 9:21:56 PM

Quote :

"He took us from 3-9 to 9-4 in four years."

then he transferred to Wisconsin

10/6/2011 9:23:38 PM

TOB, yes.

Archer... Not so much

10/6/2011 9:32:51 PM

The E Man could beat tob in ncaa football 12.

10/6/2011 9:41:00 PM

I'm not an Archer fan, but give the guy a fuckin' break. If you were happy with our defense last year, then you have to give the guy credit for changing it up. Adding Tenuta to the staff really changed the philosophy of the Defense, and I don't really see how you can deny that. We were TERRIBLE on D two years ago, and last year we showed a great improvement (that was all nate irving, rawwwrrrr). If we get all our guys back on D and are still playing like dogshit after the bye week, then I could understand the hate. Otherwise, you guys are just looking for someone to blame.

We have fullbacks playing defensive tackle, for christ's sake. and you can't possibly have the depth to go five people deep in one position (and even if you did, you wouldn't have any underclassmen in the wings to replace them for the future).

Anyway, i'm not sure about the specifics of O'Briens contract, but firing him after going 9-3 ain't gonna happen. You would A) ensure that no coach would want to come here after we fire coaches after 9 win seasons, B) not be able to afford a new coach while still paying the old coach to do nothing, and C)set a program that has been to two bowls in 3 years backward.

If this year turns to complete shit, then yeah, O'Briens seat should be plenty warm next season, but jesus, we have central michigan, a bye week, and virginia coming up. We could be back to above .500 going into the second half of the season. Considering all the bullshit this team has had to endure, I'd take that in a heartbeat.


Oh, and recruiting, since people seem to forget that we went 3-9 with all those high ranked amato recruits.

http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/a.z?s=178&p=9&c=4&yr=2012 (sort by interest)

this class looks like it could potentially be solid if we finish strong (only 14 commits so far with a some pretty good players who have us in their top 5).

Who can tell me what to expect from Manny Stocker?

[Edited on October 6, 2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2011 10:13:39 PM

I'll give Archer somewhat of a pass for our run defense and pass rush sucking. When you're playing true freshman along the d-line, shit's gonna happen.

But the perpetual 10-yard cushion by the CBs is the most pointless, ineffective secondary scheme I've ever seen. It must be stopped.

10/6/2011 10:17:20 PM

Quote :

"We were TERRIBLE on D two years ago, and last year we showed a great improvement hired Jon Tenuta"

You even said it yourself. Tenuta helped cover our weaknesses. He SHOULD be the DC.

Quote :

"Oh, and recruiting, since people seem to forget that we went 3-9 with all those high ranked amato recruits."

So we should celebrate 2* & 3* recruits? Amato could recruit great at certain positions, but was terrible at others.

10/6/2011 10:23:48 PM

I have no idea what your yappin' about. I just said Tenuta improved the D. What more do you want me to say? If you were happy last year with Archer as D coordinator and Tenuta as linebackers coach, then why change it? And i also said that if our D continues to suck when we get guys back, then Archer deserves the heat. Or are you just upset that i'm not emotionally irate for no reason? And again, I just said that the recruiting could be "solid" if we finish strong. Recruiting lots of stars doesn't amount to limp-dick if you finish seasons 3-9, now does it?

10/6/2011 10:27:54 PM

fuck, I always get their jobs mixed up. It's not archer I'm not a fan of.

It's Dana Bible.

10/6/2011 10:30:41 PM

^You continually amaze me at how little you know.....not sure you should argue anything.

Archer sucked from day one. You could look at his resume and tell it wasn't going to work. A lot similar to a few basketball coaches we have had. When a coach isn't getting it done at other places, it's likely not going to work here. His defenses at Kentucky sucked and in four short years as HC of LSU he took them from winning the SEC to going 4-7 and 5-6.

10/6/2011 10:35:19 PM

Yeah and we had one of the best run defenses in the nation last year and went 9-4.

Terrible defense... terrible.

10/6/2011 10:39:56 PM

....wow.

10/6/2011 11:58:58 PM

Quote :

"You can't expect a trend upwards like that to sustain every year."

Why not?

10/7/2011 4:10:18 AM

depth

10/7/2011 5:11:53 AM

Anyone calling for TOB's head right now needs to chill out. You don't fire a coach for essentially having "one bad year". Why only "one bad year" you say? Because the first 3 years INHO were largely out of TOB's control...

Year 1: Screwed by Amato's recruiting piss poor recruiting
Year 2: Screwed by Amato + Injuries
Year 3: More damn injuries...

Does anyone really remember the hand TOB was initially dealt? I mean REALLY looked at it? State had 3 absolutely worthless QBs, no O-Line, and a thin secondary. Then he gets a plague of injuries on top of that. It takes 3-4 years to really build a program from the ground up.

Year 4: Good year... not great... but definitely good

Year 5... yes I'm disappointed. TOB should have enough depth by now to keep the team from going into a tailspin like they have thus far this season. But I would need to see more of the same next year before I'd consider pulling the plug entirely.

Fire Archer. TOB gets another year.

10/7/2011 9:22:48 AM

There are PLENTY of other coaches who have come into worse situations and done as well if not better than TOB.

and dont say poor recruiting...thats TOBs fault, injuries...you need depth, whose fault is that?

its year 5. get it done now or get out.

with that said, I expect he gets this year and next...if nothing after next year...SEE YA!

10/7/2011 9:30:51 AM

Fire Archer! cause we are in the Danger Zone!!

10/7/2011 9:32:17 AM

TOB isn't going to take us to any championships. He (and RW) has brought us a little respectability, and 4-0 against UNC which is huge here in state, but he's not the coach who will take this program to a different level.

He stopped the bleeding for a few years, but that's about it. You don't go to Wake Forest in essentially another home game, in your 5th year, and lose. No knock on WF, but that is not the WF team that went to the BCS Orange Bowl. That is a WF team that went 2-10 or whatever last year, and lost their starting QB.

That is unacceptable.

Injuries happen. Every coach in America deals with it. The fact that you can't put a product on the field that is competitive speaks to the lack of depth you've developed (or not developed), and how terrible a job you've done recruiting.

/rant

[Edited on October 7, 2011 at 9:38 AM. Reason : .]

10/7/2011 9:37:23 AM

Quote :

"TOB isn't going to take us to any championships. He (and RW) has brought us a little respectability, and 4-0 against UNC which is huge here in state, but he's not the coach who will take this program to a different level. He stopped the bleeding for a few years, but that's about it. You don't go to Wake Forest in essentially another home game, in your 5th year, and lose. No knock on WF, but that is not the WF team that went to the BCS Orange Bowl. That is a WF team that went 2-10 or whatever last year, and lost their starting QB. That is unacceptable. Injuries happen. Every coach in America deals with it. The fact that you can't put a product on the field that is competitive speaks to the lack of depth you've developed (or not developed), and how terrible a job you've done recruiting. /rant"

well said

(still loling at flashes of brilliance)

10/7/2011 10:00:02 AM

^everything he said...

and i want to slam home the point thats been made about piss poor recruiting... that = zero depth. injuries happen, but you need to recruit some depth. It's year 5 and he should have some.

espn radio hit it on the head with o'briens recruiting...

they said "you know maybe he has an eye for talent with the 2 and 3 * recruits that he sees as very coachable players and future starters and there is nothing wrong with that, it seems to work for him... but IF they get hurt, he has walkons backing them up and there in lies the problem, zero depth in his recruiting because 1 and 2 * freshmen and sophomores make zero impact"

thats not word for word but it made insanely good sense

10/7/2011 10:01:27 AM

Quote :

"State had 3 absolutely worthless QBs, no O-Line, and a thin secondary. "

Now we have 1 decent QB, no O-Line, and a thin secondary. 5 years and still 1/3.

Lol Erios, adder, Bullet, and AstralEngine going to team up again and stick this one out as well it appears.

10/7/2011 10:20:39 AM

to get 4 and 5 star recruits you have to have a winning program worth coming to.

We were 3-9 a few years ago.... 3-9. What great player in his right mind would come here? You have to get the recruits you can and coach them up and win games. TOB has shown he can do that. You know what helps create depth at a position? A few years where you can have consistent starters playing there and let the new guys watch and learn for a year or so before they have to play. That's how most programs work anyway. But when you go through half your defense getting injured every other year, you have no choice but to put new guys in their place. When you put them there, they get experience (but they suck) and they are way better next year. It would be great if they could keep playing, but they get fucking hurt and TOB has to put the new freshmen he's got in there AGAIN. He had a rotating set of defensive linemen last year, kept them fresh, let them keep making plays. This year, he's playing the god damn fullback at defensive tackle because he's got no one else to go there.

Not having depth at the position is not the crux of the problem. The real problem is not keeping starters healthy enough to play. THAT is what puts all the pressure on our freshmen.

10/7/2011 10:25:58 AM

Quote :

"Archer sucked from day one. You could look at his resume and tell it wasn't going to work. A lot similar to a few basketball coaches we have had. When a coach isn't getting it done at other places, it's likely not going to work here. His defenses at Kentucky sucked and in four short years as HC of LSU he took them from winning the SEC to going 4-7 and 5-6."

This is pretty dumb.

Archer worked for Bill Cower for 6 years with the Steelers. He coached LSU to their first 10 win season in 25 years in his first year and won the SEC his second year as their head coach. Two different head coaches hired him at Kentucky when as a whole those teams pretty much sucked complete ass while he was there, in 3 years as a position coach they only won more than 4 games once, and the 4 years he was DC they only won more than 4 games once. Nothing about his resume is similar to any basketball coaches we've had, or signifies that he won't work out here.

Then again, you're boozie, this is TWW, and I'm not sure how you expect our defense to be any good when the d-line is this kind of banged up. Really my only complaint with the D so far is Tenuta has been allowed to continue sending ineffective blitzes almost every down that leave the secondary helpless.

10/7/2011 10:27:53 AM

^to Tenuta's point, if you send ineffective linemen towards the quarterback on every play, the QB is going to have all day to throw. I don't care if you pulled all 11 guys back into coverage, if you give the QB 4,5,6 seconds to throw the ball a receiver is going to get open. It's either throw a couple linebackers at him and hope one of them gets through faster, or have them get juked in the flats miss breaking up a pass.

Either the announcers bitch about ineffective blitzing or they bitch about the other QB having all damn day in the pocket.

10/7/2011 10:31:56 AM

opposing QBs still seem to have all day even when we send 2 and 3 because the d-line can't make any holes. I'd just like to see the LB play a bit more coverage, make the QB throw it into some tougher spots.

10/7/2011 10:37:53 AM

Quote :

"Archer worked for Bill Cower for 6 years with the Steelers."

And Herb Sendek was an assistant for Rick Pitino.....doesn't really tell you they are going to be good. Just like Trestman was a OC for the Raiders, most agree his play-calling sucked. John Bunting was a respected NFL assistant and still a shitty college coach.

Quote :

"He coached LSU to their first 10 win season in 25 years in his first year and won the SEC his second year as their head coach."

And promptly had 2 losing seasons afterwords....really can't believe I'm having to argue against Archer.

10/7/2011 11:29:55 AM

I can't even believe you're trying to argue against Archer, he's got a pretty strong track record to prove you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

10/7/2011 11:33:02 AM

I guess it's time to leave this thread.....you REALLY believe that A) Archer has a good track record? and B) He is a good defensive coordinator

10/7/2011 11:34:14 AM

Archer certainly has a good track record as a coach. I think he's a pretty good DC, I think we've had better and I'm sure there are better out there now, and honestly don't really care if we fire him and hire someone else. I just think the pants pissing and wild claims of his terribleness are hysterically silly, as well as trying to compare him to Herb or Bunting.

[Edited on October 7, 2011 at 11:51 AM. Reason : broken image]

10/7/2011 11:49:42 AM

Quote :

"He coached LSU to their first 10 win season in 25 years in his first year and won the SEC his second year as their head coach"

Sounds like the team was winning in spite of the coach as he inherited some solid talent. If just a year after the winning the SEC, they turned into a loser, then that looks real bad on Archer. Also sounds like Archer could not recruit worth a damn. Defending him is a joke. He's not a good coach, he should have never been hired period.

10/7/2011 12:05:23 PM

state fans really are delusional when it comes to coaching searches. took me a while to realize.

10/7/2011 12:07:13 PM

yeah, makes total sense that he won 18 games and an SEC championship in two years by accident

[Edited on October 7, 2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason : he could be a terrible recruiter for all I know, doesn't really affect him as a DC]

10/7/2011 12:07:29 PM

^ gimme a break dude. If TOB can't be faulted for inheriting a bunch of shitty recruits then why is Archer given credit for inheriting a bunch of talent. Following your line of logic makes me understand why you majored in Parks and Rec.

10/7/2011 12:09:15 PM