I keep seeing "police told him not to do it". Is that confirmed now or are people just twisting the truth? I thought it was a 911 operator. nevermind

Either way:

Zimmerman was jumpy and on edge to begin with because there had been some break-ins and burglaries, correct? So, he sees this black kid in a predominantly white gated community and is immediately suspicious because he appears out of place given the community demographic and due to prejudices and racial stereotypes. So, he follows the guy, Martin is like, "who the fuck is this guy following me" and Martin naturally becomes afraid. I would be weirded the fuck out if someone was following me, so this is natural. Finally, Martin makes a break for it, which most likely causes Zimmerman to confirm his suspicions to himself and go into full on hero mode. He chases the guy down, jumps out of the car and tries to stop Martin somehow and detain him. Martin defends himself and then Zimmerman defends himself, unfortunately, with a gun. I haven't read all of this thread because at first glance it appears to be a bunch of one-sided arguments of people who have already made up their mind for one reason or another. But isn't it pretty obvious that this is likely what happened?

I don't suspect that Zimmerman is a complete ass or piece of trash or waste of human flesh like some would paint him. I imagine he's just an average dude that got overzealous and fucked up. I believe that if what I outlined above is exactly what happened he deserves to be punished but I'm not sure in what way. I don't have a strong grasp of what would be the outcome if that is actually how it went down.

just m2c

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 1:09:55 PM

look, i did my best to edit it for you all and i apologize for being the ONLY PERSON saying things that are not entirely correct about this case.

i DO want to see due process. i just wish i believed that the country was gonna learn something from this no matter the outcome.

3/27/2012 1:12:22 PM

Quote :

"The bottom line is this, if Zimmerman jumped first and shot that young man because he was being all John Wayne then yes I hope he gets life in prison. If they find out that Trayvon jumped the guy as he was walking back to his SUV then no, Trayvon was at fault and Zimmerman should go free or maybe only be charged with manslaughter. "

this is exactly how i feel. i have no clue if this guy is guilty or not, but i am more inclined to play "devil's advocate" and defend zimmerman because so many people that have no fucking clue what exactly happened are piling on him.

3/27/2012 1:13:21 PM

Quote :

"I think that there is a general lack of trust in the police to do their jobs."

To me it seems like this is being used as an excuse. It's a new card in the deck the cop card or whatever.

3/27/2012 1:13:59 PM

Quote :

"Zimmerman was jumpy and on edge to begin with because there had been some break-ins and burglaries, correct? So, he sees this black kid in a predominantly white gated community and is immediately suspicious because he appears out of place given the community demographic and due to prejudices and racial stereotypes. So, he follows the guy, Martin is like, "who the fuck is this guy following me" and Martin naturally becomes afraid. I would be weirded the fuck out if someone was following me, so this is natural. Finally, Martin makes a break for it, which most likely causes Zimmerman to confirm his suspicions to himself and go into full on hero mode. He chases the guy down, jumps out of the car and tries to stop Martin somehow and detain him. Martin defends himself and then Zimmerman defends himself, unfortunately, with a gun. I haven't read all of this thread because at first glance it appears to be a bunch of one-sided arguments of people who have already made up their mind for one reason or another. But isn't it pretty obvious that this is likely what happened? I don't suspect that Zimmerman is a complete ass or piece of trash or waste of human flesh like some would paint him. I imagine he's just an average dude that got overzealous and fucked up. I believe that if what I outlined above is exactly what happened he deserves to be punished but I'm not sure in what way. I don't have a strong grasp of what would be the outcome if that is actually how it went down."

I think this is how most of the level-headed people in this thread feel. But then you run into people like God who think it was pre-meditated execution style slaughter of a child

3/27/2012 1:16:18 PM

Quote :

"I think this is how most of the level-headed people in this thread feel. But then you run into people like God who think it was pre-meditated execution style slaughter of a child "

i present to you: judge and jury

3/27/2012 1:19:06 PM

i'm honestly torn in this situation because i believe that Trayvon had every right to fight with Zimmerman or rather i'm not surprised that a physical fight happened.

but if i was in Zimmermans shoes, and i was being beat on by someone and had a gun, i'd prob feel the need to use the gun i had on me.

but if i was in a car and the scary black guy was running away from me, i wouldnt have followed him in the first place.

3/27/2012 1:19:22 PM

^5

Only thing is that it is not an excuse. Cops not checking if Zimmerman was inebriated, not checking Martin's cell phone, and also trying to correct the witnesses' statements. No reason why one shouldn't feel the police's work was shoddy

3/27/2012 1:20:52 PM

Quote :

"i'm honestly torn in this situation because i believe that Trayvon had every right to fight with Zimmerman or rather i'm not surprised that a physical fight happened. "

he had a right to physically assault someone who hadn't put his hands on him?

3/27/2012 1:22:31 PM

Why does everyone keep talking about Trayvon seeing a gun and then running or attacking? It's not likely Trayvon knew Zimmerman was armed. Quit reaching for straws.

3/27/2012 1:25:26 PM

Re: ncwolfpack's version

From my understanding, Zimmerman was following the kid in his vehicle while on the phone with the dispatcher. Martin got unnerved from being followed and I guess ran through some backyards to get off of the road. Zimmerman got out of the vehicle to follow him (maintain visual contact is my guess), but lost him. On his way back to his vehicle, Zimmerman (still on the phone, tells dispatcher he lost the suspicious person) was jumped by Martin from behind or otherwise by surprise, scuffle ensued with Martin getting the upperhand. From there, Martin was eventually shot. It could be Zimmerman felt his life was in danger and pulled the gun to shoot him, or Martin saw he had a gun and went for it, losing that struggle and still getting shot...I haven't heard enough on that end.

3/27/2012 1:26:44 PM

he had a right to defend himself after some stranger followed him.

3/27/2012 1:26:58 PM

he had a right to defend himself jump someone and beat their ass after some stranger followed him.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:29 PM. Reason : sarcasm]

3/27/2012 1:29:10 PM

Quote :

"On his way back to his vehicle, Zimmerman (still on the phone, tells dispatcher he lost the suspicious person) was jumped by Martin from behind or otherwise by surprise, scuffle ensued with Martin getting the upperhand."

Contradicts Zimmerman's statement.

Facts:
- There was a verbal exchange where BOTH spoke (according to 2 different sources) before any physical contact occurred
- Zimmerman hung up with the 911 operator well before that verbal exchange

Please stop being wrong.

3/27/2012 1:30:13 PM

Being followed doesn't give someone the right to use force against the follower. That's escalation. If you're being chased and the chaser catches up to you, then you have the right to meet force with force.

Following != chasing

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:30 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2012 1:30:26 PM

so do we know if Zimmerman was on his way BACK to his car and Trayvon jumped him?

well take this as your FAIR FUCKING WARNING world: if you are a stranger to me, follow me in your car, and get out for whatever reason, I will COME AT YOU and FUCK UP YOUR SHIT because I DO NOT LIKE being followed and I am within my right to walk around without being followed.

3/27/2012 1:34:54 PM

Quote :

"Being followed doesn't give someone the right to use force against the follower."

That's right. And Treyvon may or may not have done this. Treyvon's guilt, in particular, doesn't matter because he's dead, we won't be sentencing him. The only way this matters is in assessing Zimmerman's guilt or non-guilt.

It still stands to reason that Zimmerman has two things to prove:
- that Trayvon was the first attacker
- that both the conditions of the fight were bad enough such that the wording of the stand your ground law allows him to get off in self-defense

Again, two things, not one.

3/27/2012 1:37:26 PM

Quote :

"so do we know if Zimmerman was on his way BACK to his car and Trayvon jumped him? "

*sigh* well Trayvon didn't jump him, but speaking of the verbal confrontation...

According to the girlfriend's account of her conversation with Trayvon on the phone the answer is no.
According to Zimmerman the answer is yes.

Neither of these are extraordinarily reliable sources. If there was a recording of the girlfriend's conversation they could fry Zimmerman with that. The cell phone companies, however, do not keep recordings of our conversations to my knowledge or anywhere other than their secret labs.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 1:39:25 PM

ah to read plz:

Quote :

"Trayvon Martin punched George Zimmerman first and knocked him down, then sat on the fallen neighborhood watch captain and banged his head into the ground. That’s Mr. Zimmerman’s account of the Feb. 26 altercation that ended when he fatally shot Trayvon, according to the Orlando Sentinel, which obtained a police report on the incident. Zimmerman told police that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his vehicle when he was confronted and attacked by the 17-year-old."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0327/Does-police-incident-report-upend-Trayvon-Martin-case

gad damnit this is a shitty situation.

3/27/2012 1:40:02 PM

Quote :

"I DO NOT LIKE being followed and I am within my right to walk around without being followed. "

lol. actually, no you aren't. ever heard of the paparazzi?

3/27/2012 1:42:43 PM

Why didn't I invest in Hoodie and Skittles commodities sooner?



[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : graphit]

3/27/2012 1:43:06 PM

i'll fuck up the paparazzi too

3/27/2012 1:44:40 PM

Quote :

"I am within my right to walk around without being followed."

where in the bill of rights is that right? i couldn't find it..

3/27/2012 1:45:40 PM

shit's not in the bill of rights

its in the evlbuxmbettys bill of rights.

don't fucking follow me is all you need to know.

and yes, i have had this happen on occasion. one example: some guy was trying to take a picture of me in harris teeter, after following me from one aisle to another. i told him to leave me alone. next aisle he was holding up his phone and taking a picture. so i walked up to him and slapped it out of his hand. then he laughed and was like "i was just joking, this phone doesnt even have camera" what a fucking moron.

3/27/2012 1:48:18 PM

Quote :

"and yes, i have had this happen on occasion. one example: some guy was trying to take a picture of me in harris teeter, after following me from one aisle to another. i told him to leave me alone. next aisle he was holding up his phone and taking a picture. so i walked up to him and slapped it out of his hand. then he laughed and was like "i was just joking, this phone doesnt even have camera" what a fucking moron."

Do you have any Earthly idea how totally and completely outside of the law your actions were? And how within the law he was?

3/27/2012 1:52:36 PM

Quote :

"Why didn't I invest in Hoodie and Skittles commodities sooner?"

Because these asscocks won't actually buy them, they'll steal them. Stocks will plunge on speculation that they will not yield. The worst part is the cost of Skittlebrau will probably double.

3/27/2012 1:52:55 PM

then fucking shoot me and kill me

3/27/2012 1:53:11 PM

UMAD?SOTUFF

3/27/2012 1:55:25 PM

you'll never convince me that i was wrong in not letting that guy get away with taking a picture of me. dont give a fuck what the law does or doesnt say.

i am so tuff

3/27/2012 1:57:40 PM

hide yo kids, hide yo wife

evlbuxmbetty is failin' all over the place

3/27/2012 1:58:02 PM

i wouldnt really consider that a fail. i wasnt the one who was followed and fatally shot.

and hopefully that perv thought twice about taking pictures of girls. but prob not.

3/27/2012 1:59:16 PM

anywho, i'm sorry i got off topic.

bttt.

3/27/2012 2:00:12 PM

Quote :

"The worst part is the cost of Skittlebrau will probably double."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

3/27/2012 2:00:35 PM

How bad was Zimmerman hurt?? I can't remember what they said in the beginning on whether or not he had to be taken to the hospital for severe injuries. I keep reading "slamming his head into the pavement". If that was happening, then he probably should have been taken to the ER with possible skull fractures and/or concussion symptoms.

If you don't think Zimmerman is lying or heavily exaggerating getting his ass beat by Martin, then you are fucking dumb. Everything that comes out of his mouth will be in attempt to bolster his story to save his ass.

Getting punched in the face by a skinny 17 year old does not justify lethal force.

3/27/2012 2:01:45 PM

Quote :

"If you don't think Zimmerman is lying or heavily exaggerating getting his ass beat by Martin, then you are fucking dumb. Everything that comes out of his mouth will be in attempt to bolster his story to save his ass. "

you're a lawyer, right? you of all people should know that the other side of the case is doing the exact same thing.

3/27/2012 2:03:01 PM

^^

Quote :

"One-minute gap On Feb. 26, when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, he called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs. Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that. There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened. Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words. Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police. Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police. Zimmerman began yelling for help. Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about whether they came from Zimmerman or Trayvon. Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman. One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help. Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities. When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head. Paramedics gave him first aid but he said he did not need to go to the hospital. He got medical care the next day."

GZ's account. Believe it or don't.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

3/27/2012 2:06:29 PM

MisterGreen is all of this e-hostility because you secretly are racist and jealous that Zimmerman found this brilliant loophole and now he's fucked it up for all of you?

3/27/2012 2:06:30 PM

Quote :

"you're a lawyer, right? you of all people should know that the other side of the case is doing the exact same thing."

The "other side" is dead.

Quote :

"GZ's account. Believe it or don't."

I believe bits and pieces of it. My gut tells me that he wasn't going back to his truck. I bet he confronted Martin...but we'll never know that for sure. And since he didn't have to go to the hospital, I doubt Martin was slamming his head against the pavement. He might have been able to get on top of him, but I severely doubt it got to the level of ass-beating that Zimmerman is claiming.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2012 2:07:42 PM

'You may also use a lesser degree of force, “non-deadly force”, which is force that will not usually cause death or great bodily injury, to stop almost any crime so long as a firearm or other deadly weapon is not used by you. If you do use a firearm or other deadly weapon – the law gets complicated, and you may not be acting legally unless you are trying to stop a forcible felony. Under any circumstance, the use of force must be reasonable, and the degree of force used should not be excessive. Using excessive force can be a crime, and even a felony'

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:13 PM. Reason : http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Analysis-Florida-New-Self-Defense-Law.html]

3/27/2012 2:12:43 PM

Quote :

"My gut tells me that he wasn't going back to his truck. I bet he confronted Martin...but we'll never know that for sure."

This is what the girlfriend's account says. According to that account, Zimmerman was sure as heck not walking back.

Believe it or don't.

3/27/2012 2:16:06 PM

Ripley's?

3/27/2012 2:25:21 PM

3/27/2012 2:26:33 PM

3/27/2012 2:30:29 PM

Quote :

"and yes, i have had this happen on occasion. one example: some guy was trying to take a picture of me in harris teeter, after following me from one aisle to another. i told him to leave me alone. next aisle he was holding up his phone and taking a picture. so i walked up to him and slapped it out of his hand. then he laughed and was like "i was just joking, this phone doesnt even have camera" what a fucking moron.""

o welcome to the wolf web, Chris Brown!

3/27/2012 2:47:45 PM

JUSTICE FOR TIMOTHY

3/27/2012 2:52:38 PM

http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html

3/27/2012 3:01:41 PM

wow. I have no use for people like that.

3/27/2012 3:04:38 PM

bttt

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/27/2012 3:07:06 PM

here we go with the fuckery

this cause is dead if niggas are gonna do this shit^^^

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 3:07 PM. Reason : g]

3/27/2012 3:07:47 PM

Whats wrong with flash interpretive dance?

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/27/2012 3:13:18 PM