he's gone, move on.

9/3/2014 11:39:25 AM

^ agreed. let's move on ITT.

9/3/2014 11:44:40 AM

This has to be done to be fair to TOB

9/3/2014 11:59:58 AM

TreeTwista10 thinks he's funny.

9/3/2014 12:11:37 PM

Hey synapse, did you know Georgia Southern beat Florida last year?

9/3/2014 12:29:33 PM

I do.

9/3/2014 12:47:40 PM

Quote :

"Assembling a shitty team, winning bowl games, getting fired."

TOB wasn't making any bowl game with last year's shitty team...if that's what you're getting at. He's gone. I'm happy he's gone.

Yeah...might as well actually discuss DD in this thread.

9/3/2014 12:56:08 PM

Too bad it's impossible to defend Doeren at this point without first blaming O'Brien.

9/3/2014 1:06:24 PM

^ Well, there is that

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 1:11 PM. Reason : that recruiting tho...]

9/3/2014 1:11:19 PM

Quote :

"TOB wasn't making any bowl game with last year's shitty team...if that's what you're getting at. He's gone. I'm happy he's gone. Yeah...might as well actually discuss DD in this thread."

I think if TOB had been coach last year we may have won 5 games w/ our players...only because we had the players for the prostyle system. TOB recruiting was abysmal those last 2 years.

9/3/2014 2:40:26 PM

Moving on.

First conference win this or next season would be a huge +1 Baller Red Light Alert Credibility Point
+2 if that win comes wearing sick ass black jerseys or DD drives his motorcycle onto the field.

9/3/2014 2:41:39 PM

As soon as we get our first conference win, we can finally move to the SEC

9/3/2014 2:45:58 PM

+3 if we win a road divisional game this year.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 2:54 PM. Reason : best chance is @Cuse]

9/3/2014 2:53:19 PM

Quote :

"DD took his last team to a BCS bowl"

Must have been tough, what with playing all those teams that ended the season with double digit losses. What was his opponent's average W-L? 4-8?

It would be like playing against 8 or 9 2000s era Dukes or 2010s era NCSUs every year. Win one conference championship game against a team with a similar strength of schedule and boom, BCS appearance.

tl;dr; Yes, why not add a BCS appearance to DD's NCSU resume.

9/3/2014 3:00:28 PM

Quote :

"Win one conference championship game against a team with a similar strength of schedule and boom, BCS appearance."

The winner of the MAC doesn't get an auto-bid to a BCS bowl

9/3/2014 3:41:53 PM

If I remember correctly, there were many variables that helped NIU get to that Orange Bowl, and their strength of schedule was one of the least deciding factors. They were AP ranked 15 or something going into the game. They were then decisively stomped out by FSU, but not as badly as FSU stomped us out last year.


But I have a question of logic: Why does Doeren get credit for those seasons at NIU but completely escape criticism so far during his time at NCSU? Seems inconsistent. And on that note, does O'Brien get credit for the ACC championship game appearances that BC made right after he left?

9/3/2014 4:51:31 PM

He doesn't get to "completely escape criticism so far during his time at NCSU". But it's just silly that some posters are confident that he's a terrible coach and will never do better than last season. TOB's gone, deal with it. Doeren's here for the season, and probably at least another one regardless of what happens this year, so deal with it. If we're still as shitty then as we were last season, I'll understand heavy criticism. Hell, I'll probably understand heavy criticism if this year is as bad as last year. But we're one game into his second season.



[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 5:15 PM. Reason : ]

9/3/2014 4:55:51 PM

^

9/3/2014 5:13:42 PM

Right.....But we didn't hire him to improve from his poor first season.


We hired him to improve from Tom O'Brien's 7-8 win average...

...So naturally, expectations are high, and going goose eggs in conference play and starting the new season shaky is going to cause concern.


Get over it.

9/3/2014 5:19:02 PM

I'm concerned too. But willing to wait it out. Because it's all I can do as a fan. Because I realize that regardless of what even happens this season, he'll probably still be here next season. But I have hope that we'll see improvement before then. But I also realize that we may not. And he'll still probably be here next season.

9/3/2014 5:21:37 PM

Oh, well, in that case,

Que sera, sera.

9/3/2014 5:22:22 PM

I'll still have moments where I yell and possibly throw things at the tv screen.

9/3/2014 5:23:35 PM

Quote :

"Right.....But we didn't hire him to improve from his poor first season. We hired him to improve from Tom O'Brien's 7-8 win average... ...So naturally, expectations are high, and going goose eggs in conference play and starting the new season shaky is going to cause concern. Get over it. "

The idea and hope was that we had reached our ceiling with TOB and DD would eventually take us higher than TOB ever could. So rather than keep TOB on in 2013, have him win 3 or 4 games and then get canned, Debbie Yow saw the writing on the wall and fired TOB a year earlier than some would've thought. It was apparent the program needed serious rebuilding. And it's better to start that sooner rather than later, especially if DY had already decided that TOB wasn't the man for the job. So, yes, it's absolutely fair to criticize DD. Has anybody said otherwise? But it doesn't seem fair to outright and completely dismiss his coaching ability altogether.

And are expectations really that high? We all knew last year was going to be a rebuilding year. Maybe expectations on the whole are high for DD and his entire career here. But they weren't high for 2013.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 6:50 PM. Reason : dd]

9/3/2014 6:49:03 PM

TOB averaged 6.67 wins....but 8 wins in his last 3 years...just to be exact

9/3/2014 7:14:50 PM

ATTN: USERS < 1000 POSTS

You people are kings of looking at our teams from just the right angle to see the parts that make your point while ignoring all the other stuff. DD might could have won a couple games last year if he'd taken TOB's team and tried to coach TOB's offense. He basically phoned that season in attempting to get the jump on teaching the players his system.

There were things from last weekend to be concerned about. There are things to be optimistic about. People making judgements about DD's career 1 game into season 2 are out of their fuckin minds. How about some support?

9/3/2014 9:01:23 PM

Support the troops DD

If you don't stand behind them, feel free to stand in front of them.

9/3/2014 10:29:27 PM

Quote :

"People making judgments about DD's career 1 game into season 2 are out of their fuckin minds."

That much is clear.

9/3/2014 11:51:14 PM

I'm back behind Doeren, especially after the win last week

But on the flipside of ^that quote, you're also out of your fucking mind if you didn't express any concern whatsoever when we went 0-8 last year. We hadn't gone winless in the ACC since fucking 1959.

9/4/2014 12:01:00 AM

For sure, but "expressing concern" doesn't have to mean "FIRE THE COACH"

9/4/2014 12:09:41 AM

Quote :

" He basically phoned that season in attempting to get the jump on teaching the players his system. "

I keep hearing this, and I'm curious as to what exactly his "system" is. I know what I see out there, and I watched some NIU games last season as well, but nobody has bothered to explain what his system is and the benefits therein, much less how they see it translating into ACC play. But it must be rocket science, because last season was a doozy.


Because......if we basically have to rely on a Jordan Lynch to carry the ball a billion times a game in the spread, then I don't see it working out to well against ACC defenses, and I don't think we'll be getting too many QB's signing up for that bruising role to try and get into the NFL....just my thoughts.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 12:27 AM. Reason : ]

9/4/2014 12:11:25 AM

At the very least you should've picked up on his new tempo. There were times in the late game where GaSU was not even close to being ready when we were on the ball getting ready to snap. It was actually pretty encouraging to see the announcer still hadn't gotten around to saying "FIRST DOWN!" for our last first down and we were already running our next play.

Now if we try to be a team that establishes the run long term is yet to be seen, but our passing game seemed pretty well rounded despite some misses in the early game from Brissett.

our players are not rocket scientists, teaching them to ignore their old scheme and learn a new offense takes time.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 9:10 AM. Reason : ]

9/4/2014 9:09:10 AM

Personally I would be happy with most seasons ending in 7-8 wins with the occasional 9 win season thrown in because lets face it, that is our ceiling as a program and with the power conferences being given more control over things going forward that may be pushing it.

We had a window of opportunity in those years that Clemson and FSU were down to try and win anything meaningful and we blew it. Now with the addition of Louisville to the division, barring realignment, we are basically going to be a middle of the conference team year in and year out and the excitement of our seaons come down to if we can screw someone like FSU over, followed by a loss to Wake on the road and the Dukes and ECUs of the world.

So if DD can get us back to 7-8 win seasons and the brand of football is at least more exciting to watch then I consider that a success.

9/4/2014 9:42:00 AM

Quote :

"if we basically have to rely on a Jordan Lynch to carry the ball a billion times a game in the spread, then I don't see it working out to well against ACC defenses"

Woah, I never realized we had a fucking expert football analyst in our midst!!

9/4/2014 9:57:22 AM

lol

9/4/2014 9:57:24 AM

GSU Beat Florida???

9/4/2014 10:22:38 AM

Quote :

"Personally I would be happy with most seasons ending in 7-8 wins with the occasional 9 win season thrown in because lets face it, that is our ceiling as a program and with the power conferences being given more control over things going forward that may be pushing it. "

We had that though.....and we fired one of the most respected coaches in the country for it. And he was beating his rival. Not really trying to defend TOB or shit on Doeren here, but I think it is amazing how you all assume TOB would have performed just as badly last year. The guy beat FSU with Daniel Evans at QB. His first team wen 5-7 and was probably just as bad or worse than last year.

9/4/2014 11:26:47 AM

chuck beat fsu with evans, not TOB. pretty sure we didn't beat fsu under TOB until the game ponder fumbled on the goal line. we should've beaten them in 2009 in tallahassee, but that formidable mike archer defense once again couldn't fucking stop anyone, which was by then a regular theme in nc state football.

for the record, i liked what we did on offense under TOB. his defenses were trash, and while we had games where they stepped up (beating fsu two years ago, shutting out unc in 2011), it was far more common for them to perform as they did against miami two years ago, against maryland the year we should've won the division, etc.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 11:39 AM. Reason : ]

9/4/2014 11:33:09 AM

eh how hard is it to have a decent offense with two NFL-caliber quarterbacks

9/4/2014 11:45:59 AM

I'm ok hiring a new coach every 5-7 years until we stumble on one that elevates us from the shitter into the limelight.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ]

9/4/2014 11:52:45 AM

Quote :

"if we basically have to rely on a Jordan Lynch to carry the ball a billion times a game in the spread, then I don't see it working out to well "

It's a spread offense...not the fucking triple option. If you have a Jordan Lynch type QB that can run well and take a decent beating, then you can do it (and if you're going against smaller MAC defenses, it also helps). I doubt Doeren is trying to do that here. Brisset is mainly a passer and apparently Jalen is also a pretty damn good passer (although a better runner than Jacoby). We ran a lot last year because Thomas and Mitchell couldn't throw for shit.

9/4/2014 12:07:58 PM

Quote :

" At the very least you should've picked up on his new tempo. There were times in the late game where GaSU was not even close to being ready when we were on the ball getting ready to snap."

You mean when we were going no huddle because we were losing? And when GSU players were clearly exhausted due to fielding a small roster?

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 12:58 PM. Reason : ]

9/4/2014 12:57:22 PM

yeah, compared to our hurry up offenses in the past we were like lightning out there.

9/4/2014 1:15:00 PM

We run the no huddle when the offense is rolling. When you pick up positive yardage on first down or get a first down, you keep up with the no-huddle. When you throw a few incompletions, lose some yardage, get a penalty, or have third and longs...you normally stop the no-huddle, take a breather, and figure out what play you're going to run. Our first half was extremely disjointed. We never really got rolling. I assure you would have seen more no-huddle in the first half if the situation called for it.

9/4/2014 1:15:03 PM

Quote :

"We had that though.....and we fired one of the most respected coaches in the country for it. And he was beating his rival. Not really trying to defend TOB or shit on Doeren here, but I think it is amazing how you all assume TOB would have performed just as badly last year. The guy beat FSU with Daniel Evans at QB. His first team wen 5-7 and was probably just as bad or worse than last year."

No he didn't. Chuck Amato did. Wanna bring him back?

9/4/2014 2:06:04 PM

I believe in my heart of hearts that we lost Amato because he had the misfortune of having three absolute shit QBs in a row.

If we'd let him stick around long enough to play RW and learn that he is a golden god, he'd still be our coach today. Our defense was sick nasty under Amato, and our offense would've bounced back and we'd have been a serious team.

But I digress.

9/4/2014 2:09:43 PM

^Yeah but you also gotta blame Amato for the QB situation after Rivers, right? I know Davis and Stone were pretty good recruits and they didn't pan out...but that falls on the coaching staff right?

9/4/2014 2:13:03 PM

Quote :

"Our defense was sick nasty under Amato, and our offense would've bounced back and we'd have been a serious team."

You must have forgot about 2003 -- Rivers senior year -- the year of the shootouts. Pretty sure I remember us giving up 50+ points on multiple occasions.

But for the most part, I agree.

9/4/2014 2:17:11 PM

Quote :

"I believe in my heart of hearts that we lost Amato because he had the misfortune of having three absolute shit QBs in a row. "

Amato's problems went way past having shitty QBs. And every one of Amato's shitty QBs were light years ahead of what we had last year under center. I never thought I'd see the day when we had a QB that made Marcus Stone look competent.

Amato was way over his head as a head coach at a major university.

9/4/2014 2:26:08 PM

^^yeah, but to his credit in 2004 we had the #1 defense in the country. 2004 will always be the "Can you imagine if Rivers had redshirted?" year.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2014 2:27:30 PM

^^Pretty much agree with everything there.


High turnover with assistants was another big problem Amato had.

[Edited on September 4, 2014 at 2:36 PM. Reason : cc]

9/4/2014 2:36:27 PM