I can actually defend the defense

when you have the slowest guys in the league, and I believe they are, put Horner and Costner and McCauley on 40's test and see if they arent slow as balls

when they are guarding the fastest guards in the league, you cant expect them to play defense

Herb hardly EVER ran man to man here, and if he did it was a zone man, why? because he didnt have the personnel to do so, he had big men that ran the Weave and Heave and if they were on a good night their % was high enough to out score and out last the opponent. the problems came off turnovers and poor % nights.

now you look at what Lowe has here, and he has a big group of slow goofy big men and guards that dont fit at their position in a normal offense or defense.

Quote :

"fyi herb's last 5 years had teams with equal to or better talent this this one minus a center AND a point guard. Herb didn't get blown out by the worst teams in the conference."

you obviously dont remember some of the terrible games that went on, I remember the 2OT against BC where we didnt score a point in the last OT because Herb couldnt think of a play that would actually work, or the fast break that involved Hodge and Just Hodge alone...or maybe even the lack of rebounding that made us last in the league at times. To say he didnt have the talent Sidney does is crazy...how many off of Herbs squad have made the NBA, Simmons, Hodge, Fells prolly will, Grant may, Atsur is playing now, Brackman had chances. To say that he was out manned in talent is ridiculous...Ferg, Javi, JOHNSON, Horner, McCauley...

to say these guys are better than that Herb had here...thats crazy talk.

you've got big goofy guys that are too slow to guard.

2/26/2008 1:41:22 PM

Quote :

"Herb hardly EVER ran man to man here,"

que?

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 1:43 PM. Reason : d]

2/26/2008 1:42:24 PM

Quote :

"To say he didnt have the talent Sidney does is crazy"

sounded to me like he said Herb had equal or better talent to Sidney

2/26/2008 1:44:36 PM

not a true man to man, becuase he knew we would get burnt to oblivion look at what hes doing now at AZ St. you'll see what I mean

zone works well for the personnel we have, pack the inside, make them shoot over you and win the game with that.

his problem was transition D and teams that were athletic and fast...THE SAME PROBLEMS WE SEE NOW

why? because the guys here dont matchup with that style player

^and if thats the case, hes a damn hypocrit because in the next sentence he blames Sidney for betting blown out with less talent than what Herb had...is he tryin to say that he understands whats going on?

weird sentence

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : f]

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : h]

2/26/2008 1:45:42 PM

Quote :

"how many off of Herbs squad have made the NBA, Simmons, Hodge, Fells prolly will, Grant may, Atsur is playing now, Brackman had chances."

Is this a joke or are you just that dumb?

2/26/2008 1:50:31 PM

Quote :

"Herb kept us in games thats what alot of people around here don't realize. He didn't have the talent that the other programs did but he was a good enough coach to win with what he had."

Herb's offense lent itself to staying in games when we didn't have the talent or athleticism of the other team as long as you shot well.

The reason I disliked Herb is becuase that same offense also lent itself to underachieving when you had a lot of talent and streaky streaky scoring.

Herb kept us in games, no doubt... if for nothing else other than we held the ball forever so the other team couldn't score 100 on us.

2/26/2008 2:04:15 PM

Honestly, this thread should be about Sid and while I realize comparing him to the old coach but eventually be very relevant, it isn't to me right now.

However, I never really understood everyone acting like we were some low scoring, ACC dud of an offense under Sendek. That isn't the reality. Yes, it was a mechanical offense but it's not like we were some ACC also ran on offense.

2005-2006: 75.7 (5th out of 12)
2004-2005: 73.8 (6th out of 11)
2003-2004: 73.3 (6th out of 9)
2002-2003: 72.2 (5th out of 9)
2001-2002: 75.7 (6th out of 9)

Last 2 years
2006-2007: 72.2 (10th out of 12)
2007-2008: 67.4 (12th out of 12)

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 2:32 PM. Reason : x]

2/26/2008 2:30:53 PM

It is pretty obvious the transition from the NBA to College has proven to be challenging for Lowe. Our players can't rebound, can't play defense worth a shit, can't pass, and half the time they cant' catch a pass right into their hands. It's the fundamentals of basketball that we lack that aren't being taught by Lowe. He needs to be running pass drills and shit, the most basic of things.

I think as an NBA coach he saw that players already had these fundamentally sounds skills, hence they are NBA players. Being fundamentally sound has to be taught at the college level. Once he realizes this then he can spend some time trying to run his system.

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM. Reason : x]

2/26/2008 2:34:05 PM

^ which is why Whittenburg would've been a solid hire

note: its too early to turn on Sid. he needs time to right this ship

2/26/2008 2:37:53 PM

so just because he coached in the NBA he automatically forgot the whole playing while in college thing and what the practices were like, also he forgot what it was like to be a college student athlete. yea I'll buy that

when pigs fly


have you ever sat in on a college practice anyways? you actually think these kids need fundamentals taught to them? not at all...they have been doing this for years, they werent recruited to "be taught how to pass" they were recruited to fit a system...one that doesnt fit the coach they have now.


sure, he completely forgot everything he ever experienced in college.

2/26/2008 2:51:32 PM

Quote :

"have you ever sat in on a college practice anyways? you actually think these kids need fundamentals taught to them? not at all...they have been doing this for years, they werent recruited to "be taught how to pass" they were recruited to fit a system...one that doesnt fit the coach they have now."

No I haven't ever sat in on a college practice, but I do watch our basketball games. And yes from watching these guys in the games I think they need to have the fundamentals taught to them (that means they don't have them right now). That needs to be taught and practiced, and from our lack of improvement that looks like it isn't happening

I'm not saying I know everything about the way Lowe coaches, but if he is going to be complaining about anything it should be that his team lacks the fundamental skills to compete in the ACC. 17 turnovers in a first half can't all be attributed to players not fitting into his system.

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 3:03 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2008 3:02:37 PM

Quote :

"17 turnovers in a first half can't all be attributed to players not fitting into his system."

But it can be attributed to a freshman point guard....somewhat

2/26/2008 3:04:45 PM

Quote :

"it should be that his team lacks the fundamental skills to compete in the ACC"

who recruited those kids again? oh thats right, i forgot...not lowe.


well, until this team is Sids team, I wont make any judgements
sure its tough to watch, but I'll still keep cheering for them every game.

I find it hard to believe he isnt a good coach tho
and by the way, i sat in on a few of Herbs practices and Lowes...I prefer Lowes

2/26/2008 3:06:43 PM

I'm not saying that he isn't a good coach, I think that can't be determined right now. I'm saying he is having a hard time adjusting from the NBA to the college level. I wish him success, but I'm pointing out that a lack of fundamentals hasn't been improved on all season, and it is painfully obvious when you watch our games.

2/26/2008 3:09:07 PM

Quote :

"2005-2006: 75.7 (5th out of 12) 2004-2005: 73.8 (6th out of 11) 2003-2004: 73.3 (6th out of 9) 2002-2003: 72.2 (5th out of 9) 2001-2002: 75.7 (6th out of 9) Last 2 years 2006-2007: 72.2 (10th out of 12) 2007-2008: 67.4 (12th out of 12)"

Not to say you're wrong, but our scoring was also very dependent on the 3-point shot. You have to admit that much.

3-pt shooting:

07-08: 148/432
06-07: 199/555
05-06: 280/739
04-05: 271/734
03-04: 242/705

2/26/2008 3:18:30 PM

Quote :

"who recruited those kids again? oh thats right, i forgot...not lowe."

I actually don't think many guys lack fundamental skills at all. Certainly not Fells. His problem is confidence. He doesn't know how talented he can be. McCauley is fundamentally sound but just limited athletically. Costner is out of shape, in part due to his offseason knee problem. Hickson is not very fundamentally sound but I think his lack of bball IQ when it comes to knowing when a double is coming is more due to experience at this point. Javi and Marques are just overmatched by more talented guards at this point in their careers. They looked like a middle school JV girls PG going up against Singletary for a lot of the first half...

^ of course that is true. It's also been true of Duke since '01. They are the biggest bunch of 3 pt chuckers I've ever seen this year. They launch 30-40 a game it seems. Difference is they are great shooters...

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 3:23 PM. Reason : x]

2/26/2008 3:21:30 PM

truth

2/26/2008 3:23:44 PM

AND that they have some of the best/most diverse guards in the country

2/26/2008 3:25:12 PM

If Fells had the confidence of Paulus he'd average 20+ a game and be first team All ACC. For some reason he has games where he thinks he is the equivalent of Big Lew.

2/26/2008 3:31:06 PM

speaking of fells, i saw that fucking guy in the library last night at like 9:30.

what the hell's he doing in the library, especially that late?!

but to be serious, i like where this thread seems to be going. people are becoming okay w/ giving sid time, which is really our only choice b/c otherwise we might as well have a plaque made up for worst job in the nation.

2/26/2008 3:51:49 PM

Quote :

"when you have the slowest guys in the league, and I believe they are, put Horner and Costner and McCauley on 40's test and see if they arent slow as balls when they are guarding the fastest guards in the league, you cant expect them to play defense "

When do those guys every guard opposing teams guards??? With the exception of maybe Horner for all of 3 minutes a game??? They might pick up a guard when he comes into the lane....WHICH IS WHAT EVERY BIG MAN IS SUPPOSE TO DO.

Quote :

"Herb hardly EVER ran man to man here"

Herb THRIVED on the man-to-man...lived and died by it. He was sometimes criticized for sticking to the man-to-man...but his teams usually defended so well that there wasn't a lot of room for criticism. It was only towards the last few years that he actually started switching it up a little...which he got some good praise for.

Quote :

"how many off of Herbs squad have made the NBA, Simmons, Hodge, Fells prolly will, Grant may, Atsur is playing now, Brackman had chances. To say that he was out manned in talent is ridiculous...Ferg, Javi, JOHNSON, Horner, McCauley..."

You are retarded. Atsur never has and never will play in the NBA, same with Brackman...and other than a some potential he showed his freshmen year, never really had a chance. And Herb had Fells for his freshmen year, while Sid is having him for his sophomore and junior years...advantage Sid. Then you named Sid's worst players, while failing to list Fells, Hickson, and Costner (at least ACC tourney Costner).

Quote :

"But it can be attributed to a freshman point guard....somewhat"

I would actually say..."barely". It can be attributed to a freshmen point guard if you say that if we had a better point guard he would be handling the ball more, but very few of those turnovers came off of Javi...about 99% came from Grant fucking up on the fast break and our bigs (mainly Hickson) fucking up in the post. Sunday's first have turnover performance was pathetic.

2/26/2008 5:27:50 PM

i like when we get into disagreements about herb

all it boils down to is, ppl (faggots) are missing herb b/c we've lost 5 in a row.

just stfu herb lovers. go to asu.

2/26/2008 5:42:03 PM

I don't miss Herb. But I think he is a better coach than Sidney. We have taken a huge step backwards imo.

There is plenty of blame to go around about how we got into this situation. Bad fans for driving Herb away and a bad AD for hiring Sidney. I wish we had gotten a better coach (glad we didn't calamari).

I think Fowler needs to be fired and the next AD (I vote for Cowher) needs to put every coach at this school on notice. Compete for ACC titles or lose your job. Beginning with Sidney and the girls volleyball coach.

2/26/2008 6:01:00 PM

Quote :

"all it boils down to is, ppl (faggots) are missing herb b/c we've lost 5 in a row."

I think there are extremes on both sides.

There are people who really pine for Herb. I'm not one of them...but going through what we're going through now, you can't help but at least miss knowing we're going to the NCAA tourney and perhaps compete in the top tier of the ACC (top 3 or 4). But the ones who won't let go of Herb are pretty sad.

Then there are the ones that are defending Sid by criticizing Herb...and that makes them look really stupid right now. After a really bad game they say stupid shit like, "Well...we're still better off than when we had Herb" or "We suck now because of Herb." Its dumb comments like those that bring people like me out.

No excuses. This season is not Herb's fault. It's Sidney's fault. We have talented players...and I don't care what kind of system you want to run, you look at what you have and you work with that. And its not like we've got a bunch of bid dumb oafs on this team...we have athletic guys and good basketball players and they should be playing a lot better than they are right now. Bottom line. Thats it. If you don't want to talk about Herb, then don't bring him up when making excuses for Sidney.

2/26/2008 6:07:12 PM

Quote :

"But it can be attributed to a freshman point guard....somewhat"

It's really sad but PG is not the issue. When your two bigs Costner and Hickson lead the team in turnovers, its probably not PG play that is bothering you.

Quote :

"If you don't want to talk about Herb, then don't bring him up when making excuses for Sidney."

Thank you. I get blame all the time for talking about Herb, but I am usually just defending him from the dumbasses that say shit like Herb had more talent, NBA players, etc....JT3bucky you posted one of the worst posts I have ever seen at the top of this page.

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 6:13 PM. Reason : damn]

2/26/2008 6:11:48 PM

Quote :

"PG is not the issue"

PG is a HUUUUGE issue with this team this year

all one has to do is what Javi and especially Johnson and compare them to Atsur, or even Crawford or Archie

what good is arguably the best frontcourt in the conference when you cant get them the ball?

2/26/2008 6:24:28 PM

Quote :

"what good is arguably the best frontcourt in the conference"

Potential wise this should be one of the best frontcourts in the country...but you can put...MAYBE...10% to 15% of the blame on the point guards getting them the ball. Ben, JJ, and Brandon get the ball enough in the post to make a difference. Too bad they turn the ball over and fuck up over half the time.

2/26/2008 6:34:47 PM

Quote :

"PG is a HUUUUGE issue with this team this year"

With the turnovers dumbass. God sometimes you just type without reading at all don't you?

Of course PG is a weakness, but turnovers have came from other places more often.

2/26/2008 6:55:00 PM

Our whole team is a weakness.

I honestly can't think of one area we excel in. I believe we're an above average free-throw shooting team...right??

2/26/2008 7:03:53 PM

this team has obviously quit. i really am tired of hearing we have no PG...who takes responsibility for your team giving up on the season?

2/27/2008 7:31:26 PM

Just got home from the gym. Saw Ferguson and Johnson in the game in crunch time with us down 7. Turned it off and about to hit the shower.

2/27/2008 8:49:34 PM

FIRE HIS FAT ASS NEXT YEAR

2/27/2008 9:01:29 PM

sidney lowe has no credibility

2/27/2008 9:40:21 PM

evidently sid's mom had a heart attack earlier today, is in the hospital.

plz to get better sid's mom

2/27/2008 9:41:40 PM

2/27/2008 9:42:24 PM

Quote :

"Just got home from the gym. Saw Ferguson and Johnson in the game in crunch time with us down 7. Turned it off and about to hit the shower. "

try watching more of the game next time. in this case you would have noticed that fergie was our leading scorer for pretty much the entire game

but yeah, johnson shouldn't have been on the court, esp towards the end of the game

2/27/2008 9:53:57 PM

THREE

MORE

YEARS







L

O

L

2/27/2008 10:03:09 PM

Quote :

"THE NEXT LES ROBINSON"

2/27/2008 10:04:51 PM

Well, we have two 3* guards coming in to run the offense to coach Lowe's liking next year. I hope they can pull and run the option.

2/27/2008 10:07:15 PM

WOW 3*'S YOU SAY!

2/27/2008 10:07:55 PM

we had a bajillion guards come in this year...

2/27/2008 10:08:06 PM

i am officially at the point where it doesn't upset me at all when we lose.

this is both good and bad.

2/27/2008 10:10:43 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=516450

2/27/2008 10:15:52 PM

i am officially at the point where it doesn't upset me at all when we lose.

2/27/2008 10:15:55 PM

^i always think that going into the game. i said before we played tonight that this was the least excited i have been about an ncsu bball game since i was a little kid too young to understand the game

but once i actually watch for some reason i can't help but think we might have a chance and just get way too emotionally involved. it sucks.

2/27/2008 10:16:24 PM

^

2/27/2008 10:17:38 PM

and the question still lingers, why can't we rebound?

2/27/2008 10:21:16 PM

what lowes problem is he acts like we can't go without javi or johnson on the court at any point when in reality thats our biggest problem.

so tonight when furguy was hot he thought about just benching furgey but then realized that would be dumb so he put him in a BENCHED COURTNEY FELLS to leave johnson in

why can't we just have

furg
fells
grant
2 bigs

and a little javi every now and then

bench horner
bench johson

johsnon has potential but right now what does he bring to the table?

we can't have guys in the game that bring nothing to table and expect to win. or do we even expect to win?

2/27/2008 10:23:59 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=516450

2/27/2008 10:24:25 PM

i find it hard to care unless state is competing for something or has a chance to get into the ncaa. not being a student anymore, who really gives a fuck about the team when they are looking at a losing record?

at least last year, they had a late season rally and not a full out collapse

2/27/2008 10:24:59 PM