^ I agree

4/17/2012 9:52:52 AM

Quote :

"Game of Thrones bounces around from character to character, but in my mind is EXPONENTIALLY more "focused" than Lost was when it comes to character development."

what i meant by focused was that they would devote an episode to one or two characters/sub-plots so they could really dive into that story and then come back to the rest in later episodes. This last episode of GOT was more focused in that sense. The first 2 episodes of this season seemed to jump around non-stop. Which i get for the first episode because they want to touch on all of the characters. But there are too many characters/sub-plots to do that all of the time.

Quote :

"Keep in mind the source material is written in the "bouncing around to every character". Each chapter is from the point of view of a particular character so plot lines drop and pick up repeatedly throughout the series."

I think you're confusing the two things i mentioned.

I'm 100% good with and like them dropping and picking up storylines throughout the series. I want that so the individual episodes aren't stretched too thin. I don't like when they bounce around too much in one episode though. It prevents you from getting "settled in" for the episode, is more likely to cause confusion, etc.

So I'm all for bouncing around, I just prefer the bouncing to be episode to episode rather than every 3-5 minutes. Which is still very much in line with how the source material is written. It bounces around by chapters, not non-stop within the chapters.

And regardless of how the source material is written... this is not a book, it's a tv show. Just because something works or doesnt' work in a book, doesn't been it will in a tv show or movie. That's why they're "adapted." But again, I think this works fine, it just works better imo when they bounce around episode to episode rather than within a single episode too much.

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 12:36:37 PM

A lot of shit is happening simultaneously in several different locations. I'm not sure they could do it much differently without seeming extremely disjointed. Hell, you have people complaining that in this episode we didn't see Daenerys or Stannis at all. They're already partitioning episode to episode to a degree.

To be honest the writing style causes problems with the books as well. He has way too many plot lines. I only brought up the source to compare it to the source material of the show you referenced as the proper model.

4/17/2012 2:03:14 PM

Quote :

"Hell, you have people complaining that in this episode we didn't see Daenerys or Stannis at all. They're already partitioning episode to episode to a degree."

haha, well clearly they're wrong, i'm right, and they just don't realize how awesome it will be when we have an episode focused around her, and just one or two other things.

Yeah, i thought this last episode was great in how it was "partitioned." personally, i'd like them to continue with that model.

4/17/2012 2:47:14 PM

Can someone explain to me why so many of the Baratheon bannermen chose to join Renly over Stannis? I understand that the Tyrell family has joined Renly, are they amassing so many more soldiers than Stannis just because they have more money (from the Tyrells)? It seems that of the 5 "Kings" Renly is the only one that doesn't have a legitimate claim?

Robb - King of the North - only wants the North, family has always controlled the North
Joffrey - Thinks he is the rightful heir
Stannis - Is the rightful heir
Danny - Prior heir
Renly - I just want to be King

Also just to make sure I've got my teams all straightened out:

Stark - Want the North to be independent
Baratheon - Split between Stannis and Renly
Lannister - Backing Joffrey
Tyrell - Backing Renly
Greyjoy - No alliances, just want to fuck everyone up
Frey - Bannermen to the Tully family but have joined the Starks
Arryn - No mention of allegiance
Tully - No mention of allegiance
Martell - No mention of allegiance

Also, after the last episode, fuck Theon. His "family" doesn't give two shits about him. He should have just left, joined back with Robb, taken a few men back to the Iron Islands, and taken the that kingdom for himself. Now he's going to pillage the former lands that he called home for nine years. Fuck that dude.

4/17/2012 3:35:07 PM

Everybody loves Renly and everybody hates Stannis. Renly has no claim to the throne other than he thinks he can unify Westeros and Stannis can't.

4/17/2012 3:42:46 PM

really happy anne bolynn joined thsi show, she was BANGING in the tudors

4/17/2012 4:17:51 PM

^^^ Technically, I think the bastard that's with Arya is the rightful heir and then Stannis.

4/17/2012 4:20:08 PM

From the wiki:

Quote :

"The term bastard refers to anyone born out of wedlock. In the Seven Kingdoms there is considerable social stigma attached to being a bastard. Bastards are not allowed to inherit their father's lands or titles, and have no claims to the privileges of their father's house. It is possible for the king to legitimize a lord's bastard children, though this special discompensation is difficult to acquire and infrequently happens. It will usually only be granted if a lord has no other legitimate children (or no male children) to carry on the name of his house. "

So Gendry has no claim to the throne unless the sitting king legitimizes him and essentially gives him the throne.

Also found it interesting that all bastards of the region carry the same name. I was wondering why everyone immediately noticed that Jon Snow was a bastard when he told them his name. I just thought that his name was well known in that area due to his father being Ned.

Quote :

" The North: Snow. The Vale: Stone. The Riverlands: Rivers. The Crownlands: Waters. The Iron Islands: Pyke. The Westerlands: Hill. The Reach: Flowers. The Stormlands: Storm. Dorne: Sand. "

4/17/2012 4:50:01 PM

Also on the topic of why more people support Renly over Stannis, Stannis is lord of Dragonstone which is that island out in the sea whereas Renly is lord of Storm's End. Dragonstone is pretty much a cold/windy/nasty place that not many people want to visit so it isn't as populated as Storm's End. Also, just out of physical appearance, Stannis is a tall/intimidating guy whereas Renly is always smiling/easy going/likable.

4/17/2012 5:14:19 PM

And Renly is gay. Everyone likes a sharp dressed gay dude.

4/17/2012 6:21:45 PM

I feel that Dragonstone will end up playing a large part in the war with the Wights/Undead.

4/17/2012 6:47:16 PM

Quote :

"So Gendry has no claim to the throne unless the sitting king legitimizes him and essentially gives him the throne."

interesting. That doesn't really jive with what has happened. It was eluded to as why Ned Stark wrote the "when the rightful heir comes of age" verbiage. And I'm sure Stark knew that Stannis was of age and would be the rightful heir if bastards don't count. It also seems like an awful lot of effort spent on killing children (even infants) who have no claim to the throne.

I'm not sure if i want anyone to answer this or not, maybe PM me since it would be spoiler; but the wiki is obviously based on the book since none of this "bastard's right to throne" thing has been covered in the show, does anyone know if the Gendry story line (Ned finding him and writing the will that way, etc.) is the same in the book. It just doesn't make sense to me for them to have this stuff in the show if the kid has no claim to the throne at all. Unless it will come to a point and they'll be like "sorry... you have no claim according to the 'bastards have no claim' rule. This was all for the sake of entertainment"

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 7:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2012 7:14:47 PM

the reason for killing the bastards has more to do with their resemblance to robert than one of them making a claim for the throne, although the possibility is there to a degree. you also have to remember that cersei and joffrey are unhinged and power crazed.

furthermore, the only way a bastard could really become a threat would be if they were legitimized by the king, which no living person would do at this point.

as soon as eddard discovered the truth behind joffrey, myrcella, and tommen, he immedietely declared stannis as the rightful king.

also as far as renly and stannis. dragonstone is traditionally the holding of the second in line to the iron throne, however as wraith said, it's isolated and not very lucrative or desirable. storm's end, on the other hand, is not isolated, is one of the better castles to hold in terms of resources, connections, and money, and is also the ancestral home of the baratheons. so technically, stannis got screwed by being older and having a better claim to the throne as he got stuck at dragonstone.

he's also rigid, boring, and not very personable which further hinders his ability to draw support.

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 8:51 PM. Reason : ]

4/17/2012 8:42:30 PM

But Dragonstone is a repository of dragon glass.


[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 9:52 PM. Reason : whiners]

4/17/2012 9:46:20 PM

if its a possible spoiler, just dont post it. seems simple.

if someone wants to know something more they can request a pm.

/whiner

4/17/2012 9:48:46 PM

great episode.

[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 10:48 PM. Reason : ]

4/17/2012 10:44:37 PM

I was just going by the viewer's guide on HBO.com. I am really interested to see what happens north of the wall.

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/#!/guide/houses/

V yes Mance has been mentioned. I can't tell if Balon wants to be king or if he just wants to destroy his enemies so he can be king of the Iron Islands. It seems that he doesn't have anywhere near the resources to take over and hold Westeros, and he doesn't seem to be the type to make alliances.


[Edited on April 17, 2012 at 10:54 PM. Reason : V]

4/17/2012 10:49:28 PM

Quote :

"It seems that of the 5 "Kings" Renly is the only one that doesn't have a legitimate claim? Robb - King of the North - only wants the North, family has always controlled the North Joffrey - Thinks he is the rightful heir Stannis - Is the rightful heir Danny - Prior heir Renly - I just want to be King"

Just to get a better understanding of how many kings we're dealing with, you've also got:

Balon Greyjoy (Theon's father) - former King of the Iron Islands, wants to be King again by taking the North
Mance Rayder, King Beyond the Wall - I think Craster tells Lord Mormont that he's amassing an army of wildlings

4/17/2012 10:50:08 PM

Quote :

"Also on the topic of why more people support Renly over Stannis, Stannis is lord of Dragonstone which is that island out in the sea whereas Renly is lord of Storm's End. Dragonstone is pretty much a cold/windy/nasty place that not many people want to visit so it isn't as populated as Storm's End. Also, just out of physical appearance, Stannis is a tall/intimidating guy whereas Renly is always smiling/easy going/likable."

Also, Stannis is in bed (double entendre, woo!) with a Red Priestess, preaching a religion that seeks to replace both the old and the new gods of the existing religions in Westeros. No likee.

4/18/2012 1:49:20 AM

It has already been said that Renly was well liked in court at King's Landing. He's not over bearing or unjust and seems to care about the people. So what if he isn't a warrior or a knight or strong like Robert was. All the great Caesars of Rome were the ones that were well received by the people, not ruthless killers.

The best outcome would be for Renly to be king and for the north to become independent, but an ally of King's Landing so you have a semi united Westeros when Danerys comes with her dragons.

4/18/2012 1:38:21 PM

plus stannis should have storm's end as he is the eldest, but Robert gave it to Renly after becoming king to spite stannis? so stannis has been pissed for a bit.

at least I think that's true

4/18/2012 1:57:11 PM

From wiki

Quote :

" Dragonstone was the original seat of House Targaryen in Westeros during the Valyrian Freehold, later serving as the seat of their heir apparent ("The Prince of Dragonstone") after their conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. After Robert Baratheon overthrew the Targaryens, he gave the island to his brother Stannis, creating House Baratheon of Dragonstone. During Robert's Rebellion, the castle became the last haven of the remaining Targaryens. Queen Rhaella and Prince Viserys were evacuated there before King's Landing fell to the rebels. Rhaella gave birth to Princess Daenerys during a terrific storm and died shortly afterwards. As rebel forces under Ser Stannis Baratheon prepared to lay siege to Dragonstone, the last scions of House Targaryen fled the castle for Braavos with the help of Ser Willem Darry. After the war, the castle passed to Stannis. Lord Stannis resented the castle because its lands were far poorer than those of Storm's End, which he felt was his due as heir of House Baratheon. He considered the castle to be an insult, but Robert felt a strong leader should be placed in the old Targaryen seat. During the War of the Five Kings, the poor lands of Dragonstone gave King Stannis few supporters for his claim to the throne."

Also, Dany is not considered one of the 5 kings as she's off on another continent.

Renly, Robb, Joffrey, Stannis, and Balon are the five.

[Edited on April 18, 2012 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2012 2:49:53 PM

According to HBO's website, Dany is and Balon isn't.

4/18/2012 3:19:40 PM

weird. Balon is definitely the 5th per the books and Dany is not.

4/18/2012 3:26:05 PM

^Aye, the folks on Westeros have no idea that Dany is even amassing an army or has dragons.

4/18/2012 3:31:11 PM

She hasnt ammased shit yet in the show.

4/18/2012 3:38:19 PM

seriously debating on DVRing the rest of the season and not watching until I finish book 2. I started book one and am about a third of the way through it. While I do enjoy reading it, it kind of sucks knowing the big plot points that are around the corner.

4/18/2012 4:17:16 PM

i'm a good ways through book 1.. i'm going to continue watching/reading, and hopefully read the rest of the books before season 3. i intended to read them before season 2, but too many books in my backlog and not enough time.

4/18/2012 4:30:08 PM

Well yeah I guess she doesn't have shit now but back when Khal Drogo was alive she was all ready to invade and all the folks in Westeros had absolutely no idea.

4/18/2012 4:48:08 PM

either way nobody in westeros knows anything about danaerys.

4/18/2012 7:58:17 PM

??

Maybe not what she is up to NOW; but they knew enough about her and what she was doing to send assassins in the first book/season.

They know she is out there.

4/18/2012 7:58:59 PM

They don't know she has fucking dragons. Keep up people.

4/18/2012 8:54:26 PM

Robert is the only one who cared about Dany.

Now the kings are too busy attacking each other to care.

4/18/2012 9:34:43 PM

That and they are pretty convinced that even if she did have a Dothraki army they wouldn't cross saltwater so they aren't bothered.

4/19/2012 9:30:03 AM

Quote :

"seriously debating on DVRing the rest of the season and not watching until I finish book 2. I started book one and am about a third of the way through it. While I do enjoy reading it, it kind of sucks knowing the big plot points that are around the corner."

I am reading book 2 for the first time along with this season in realtime. I am a slow reader, probably averaging 200 pages per week, but that has kept me mostly on pace. And it's really useful to see something in the show that you read only hours earlier and understand the many small details behind it that didn't make it to the screen. I'm enjoying it.

4/19/2012 12:35:59 PM

Quote :

"So Gendry has no claim to the throne unless the sitting king legitimizes him and essentially gives him the throne."

Having a "legal claim" to the throne isn't all that big a deal. Robert Baratheon didn't have one when he got it, and Renly doesn't have one now that he's fighting for it. So partly the idea behind killing the bastards is to remove potential competition, and partly it's to remove evidence (all of Robert's actual kids look like him, whereas Joffrey & co. all look like their mother and uncle-dad. And partly Joffrey and Cersei are nuttier than a big of squirrel shit and think they can murder all their problems away.

---

One of the problems that the show inherits from the book is that it can be hard to know which characters will be important in the long run. Stannis and Renly are about as minor in the first book as they are in the first series, ancillaries that are barely encountered or (in the case of Stannis) only mentioned in passing by third parties. Then the second book/series comes around and, holy shit, they're kings and major characters. Meanwhile, Ned -- who was clearly depicted as the main character, especially in the show -- gets his fucking head chopped off relatively early.

This arrangement reflects real life pretty well (everyone can think of "side characters" in their lives who became central, and central ones who dropped off quickly), but it can be troublesome for an audience spoiled by conventional storytelling and which might not be able to devote the focus necessary to make note of every single character who is mentioned by name.

And believe me, to understand this story, that's basically what you have to do. If you hear a living individual referenced once or twice, you can bet he or she will crop up later in a bigger role, and if you forget the little tidbits that came early you end up very confused -- which is why now people are asking, "Why the fuck is Renly so popular?"

4/20/2012 2:05:51 AM

Quote :

" One of the problems that the show inherits from the book is that it can be hard to know which characters will be important in the long run."

Eh. I see this as a strength. It keeps us from getting bored with the same three or four main characters and also adds to the panoramic scope of the show/books. It isn't too hard to keep up with IMO (for example, it doesn't take too much close analysis to notice that Renly is simply more charismatic than Stannis) and people should be at least a little used to it from other HBO shows. Deadwood and The Wire did that kind of thing to a certain degree, too.

4/20/2012 8:45:39 AM

Let me put it another way: it's problematic for a mass audience, and it's problematic when you're not expecting it. I wasn't, when I started the first season (and to a lesser degree the first book), and it could be frustrating. Now I love the fact that the story is constantly bringing new people to the fore, but from the standpoint of a company that wants to make a popular show, I can see hurdles.

4/20/2012 11:43:20 PM

Okay I just got to the middle of book 2 and holy geez this Sunday and/or next Sunday is going to be insane.

4/21/2012 12:18:18 AM

boy its a good thing you said that, that notice is sure to boost everyone's enjoyment of the show

4/21/2012 12:36:38 AM

boy its a good thing you said that, that notice is sure to boost everyone's enjoyment of the show

4/21/2012 1:20:30 AM

Started listening to 2 GOT related podcasts today.

A Cast of Kings: A chick that's read the books and a dude that has not read the books recap the previous weeks episode. They try to keep the conversation only up to the current episode and avoid spoilers.

HBOs Game of Thrones. Only played a few but they have brief podcasts dedicated to each house/character. The style is more preview/trailer. But still pretty good to listen to(the podcasts have video)

4/21/2012 8:13:35 PM

Boars, Gore and Swords is solid. They watch the season, podcast on it, then read that book after the season.

4/21/2012 8:48:35 PM

4/22/2012 9:58:32 PM

GRRM clearly stole that storyline from Fern Gully

4/22/2012 9:58:33 PM

Not entirely sure why they changed the shadow scene. I won't go into any more details at this point though.

Very good episode though; this season has really been hitting on all cylinders the past two episodes.

[Edited on April 22, 2012 at 10:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/22/2012 10:02:38 PM

Crazy ending, I'm kinda pissed I stopped reading after book one (I read too slow to keep up with the show). Can anyone remember the names that Arya was reciting at night? I assume these are people that she plans to kill. From what I could hear: Cersei, ?????, The Hound, Joffrey. Then she add's two more but I could only make out the Mountain. Could someone fill me in on the other two?

4/22/2012 10:29:19 PM

I believe in the books that one of the names was the man in the mountain's group questioning people and the other was ser ilyn payne

4/22/2012 10:37:27 PM

^^ I don't remember that far back, but I didn't think they changed the shadow scene very much.

4/22/2012 10:37:31 PM