Quote :

"you can't speak about police-minority relations in the abstract, though."

I agree with this -- but this may not be the right case. You could have the right argument, but a bad set of facts, and then you lose. This is a bad set of facts. It's all about the PR spin you can put on it.

11/26/2014 1:19:28 PM

Personally I think with the picture above that all of those situations should be treated the same. Celebrating your teams victory should be in the same lines and peacefully protesting whatever cause you are protesting. Once you start causing damage to others property and disrupting normal activity for people not involved you have crossed the line into being a criminal. In both situations people should be gassed, arrested, whatever no matter who they are.

I agree that these two situations aren't treated the same in general though, but they should be. I agree that would also help the situation in the fact that the black protestors would see both being treated equally and wouldnt feel they were being singled out compared to white people celebrating some event. What a mess, why cant people just be people and everyone stop acting like idiots.

11/26/2014 1:19:59 PM

Quote :

"The details of this case should have never been argued by a grand jury, where 1 lawyer (who is obviously heavily pro-cop) controls both sides of the story, controlled the jury selection (by extending his existing jury), and didn't ask for a charge. This was a travesty of justice, no matter what happened. "

But this is what happens in every Grand Jury. Which I agree, makes the system broken. I believe the saying goes that "a Grand Jury would indict a ham sandwich in the death of a pig." Our justice system is broken, but it's broken by more than just race. You have prosecutors who push for whatever result they want without regard for the truth, judge's who allow it, and jurors who are, for the most part, uneducated and extremely biased. That's why you have innocent people convicted all the time. Is there really anyone out there that expects our justice system to achieve the right result in the end? Would a trial really have been any better?

11/26/2014 1:23:16 PM

Quote :

"But this is what happens in every Grand Jury. Which I agree, makes the system broken. I believe the saying goes that "a Grand Jury would indict a ham sandwich in the death of a pig." "

How does this happen in every grand jury? My understanding is that grand jury investigations are very short usually (a few hours) and the prosecutor only presents information that looks favorable to a conviction, they get the bill, and move on.

What happened in Ferguson seemed to be the opposite of this. There was no attempt to get a charge, and it seemed like the prosecutor goal was to NOT get a charge.

11/26/2014 1:25:22 PM

What I meant, is that the Grand Jury only ever returns the result the prosecutor wants. 99% of the time, that's an indictment.

11/26/2014 1:29:02 PM

Quote :

"What a mess, why cant people just be people and everyone stop acting like idiots."

you've been one of many who have made a blanket statement about a group rioters making an entire race look bad

11/26/2014 1:29:25 PM

Quote :

" I agree with this -- but this may not be the right case. You could have the right argument, but a bad set of facts, and then you lose. This is a bad set of facts. It's all about the PR spin you can put on it."

Of course. This is why Rosa Parks was selected to be the face of the bus boycott. She was a clean face for that cause. Unfortunately, the civil rights movement is dead, and the black community has no central leadership to orchestrate their message. And white people fuckin' hate Jackson and Sharpton (mostly because they don't like being reminded that they benefit from privilege...privileges like not being harassed by authority).....soooo this is pretty much what we're left with.



[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 1:33 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 1:29:46 PM

I feel like it would have been the right thing to do to at least bring him up on some form of charge even if it was one of the lesser ones that were available. Just the fact that many witnesses had conflicting stories should have been enough for them to say yeah we should probably look into this more. It is not like the guys career isn't over already anyways so you arent really hurting the cop by going through a trial and at the very least it would have lessened the tension in the area.

11/26/2014 1:34:03 PM

Quote :

"What I meant, is that the Grand Jury only ever returns the result the prosecutor wants. 99% of the time, that's an indictment. "

Ahh, gotcha.

Demonstrating again why people are upset. This prosecutor might not hate black people, but he's part of a system that works against black people, and this case was a manifestation of that. Despite all the publicity and public outcry, their voices still were not heard, and a broken system was allowed to remain broken. I'm hoping we can all understand how difficult a situation that is for a lot of people.

11/26/2014 1:36:07 PM

^^^Rosa Parks was the backup, the original chick showed up pregnant.

11/26/2014 1:48:10 PM

nvm

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 2:04 PM. Reason : can't embed]

11/26/2014 2:02:58 PM

Quote :

"<script height="425px" width="755px" src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#ec=Q4ajJ3cTpsKDDKJTG2SW6bXVypHuk0Yk&pbid=a637d53c5c0a43c7bf4e342886b9d8b0"></script> This video is basically how I feel I'm Krallum and I approved this message."

11/26/2014 2:03:36 PM

its from that link ncsuhippie posted

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 2:04:34 PM

What happens in GTA if you have a 1 star wanted level and you start punching a cop?

11/26/2014 2:07:22 PM

It goes up to 2 stars automatically and eventually you either stay and die or run and get shot at

I'm Krlalum and i approved this message.

11/26/2014 2:08:29 PM

Cop pulls out his gun and you walk though bullets until he gets 2 head shots.

11/26/2014 2:20:37 PM

Quote :

"I found this article a rational explanation of the two main testimonies and their differences. http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story I think that people can generally read between the lines and see that no one is innocent in this case. But the difference is that one person was a high school kid doing things stupid high school kids do, and the other is a grown-ass-man-police-officer who should have handled the situation much differently from the very beginning. "

Wow, i hadn't read Johnsons testimony, but that seems more believable to me. Wilson rolls up giving them grief, they talk some smack, wilson gets pissed and opens his door into them, this sends the adrenaline flowing in Brown who slams the door back on Wilson, wilson in his rage grabs Browns neck to keep him from running away, Brown is pissed at this point, calls wilson a pussy that won't shoot him, gets a few (obviously weak) punches off on Wilson, wilson shoots brown through the door, they release each other and brown starts to run, wilson shoots at him more, brown realizes he's hit and tries to surrender, and wilson finishes the job.

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 2:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 2:28:40 PM

Anyone remember the Jena 6. 6 Thugs nearly beat to death a dude at a high school because they wanted to kick some white boy ass due to some bigots hanging nooses at the school earlier.

The african american community was in arms because one of the defendants (a prior felon) was charged with attempted murder. I guess justice is a 1-way street.

11/26/2014 2:29:12 PM

Quote :

"" Disliking the culture and actions that are generally associated with a group of people doesnt make you a racist ""

uh, assuming that the negative actions of a portion of a "group of people" defines an entire group of people does kinda make you a racist, if that "group of people" is a race of people.

But just to be clear, what is the "culture and actions that are generally associated with a group of people" that you speak of, and what is that "group of people"?

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ^i think that's what you call a "strawman". or something.]

11/26/2014 2:36:12 PM

^^ I'm sure the African American community was upset because a high school had a whites only tree....

11/26/2014 2:39:57 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/seemingly-unorthodox-police-procedures-emerge-in-grand-jury-documents/2014/11/25/48152574-74e0-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html

Quote :

"Unorthodox police procedures emerge in grand jury documents By Tom Hamburger and John Sullivan When Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson left the scene of the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown, the officer returned to the police station unescorted, washed blood off his hands and placed his recently fired pistol into an evidence bag himself. Such seemingly un­or­tho­dox forensic practices emerged from the voluminous testimony released in the aftermath of a grand jury decision Monday night not to indict Wilson. The transcript showed that local officers who interviewed Wilson immediately after the shooting did not tape the conversations and sometimes conducted them with other police personnel present. An investigator with the St. Louis County Medical Examiner’s office testified that he opted not to take measurements at the crime scene. “I got there, it was self-explanatory what happened,” said the investigator, whose name was not released, in his grand jury testimony. “Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there.” The investigator, described as a 25-year veteran, did not take his own photographs at the scene of the shooting because his camera battery was dead, he said. Instead, he relied on photographs shot by the St. Louis County Police Department. The medical examiner and Ferguson Police Department did not immediately respond to requests for comment. When Wilson returned to the police department after the shooting, he was permitted to drive by himself. No one photographed his bloodied hands before he washed up at the station because “there was no photographer available.” Later, injuries to Wilson’s head caused by punches he said were thrown by Brown were photographed by a local detective at the Fraternal Order of Police building, not at police headquarters. An FBI agent interviewed by the grand jury said he did tape his interview with Wilson. The agent, who was not identified, said Wilson washed up immediately after the shooting because he was worried about the danger presented by some one else’s blood, not about preserving evidence. “His concern was not of evidence, but as a biohazard or what possible blood hazards it might attract,” said the agent, who like other witnesses was not identified by name. At the crime scene, the medical examiner did not see stippling, the residue of gunpowder on clothing that can indicate shots fired at close range. Eventually an autopsy found evidence of stippling. In the extended interviews, prosecutors do not come across as particularly aggressive or curious. But they do question police procedures on a couple of occasions, including the failure by Ferguson and St. Louis County investigators to tape their interviews with the officer after the shooting. Why not tape these answers? a detective with St. Louis County was asked. “It is just common practice that we do not,” the detective said. Prosecutors also asked why Wilson was permitted to handle evidence in the case himself. “He had informed me that after he responded to the police station, he had packaged his weapon and then he directed my attention to an evidence envelope,’’ said the St. Louis County detective. Is it customary for the person who was involved in such an incident “to handle and package their own gun as evidence?” the detective was asked. Not according to the rules of the St. Louis County Police Department, the detective said. But Ferguson may have had its own rules, the detective said. He was not aware of “any policies or procedures they have in place” on the topic. “Darren Wilson had told me that he had packaged the weapon and it was currently in that evidence bag,” the detective told the grand jury. “Now, at that point in time I never checked to verify that; it was done later,” the detective said. The accounts occasionally revealed inconsistencies. For example, two investigators who interviewed Wilson immediately after the incident said Wilson told them only one shot was fired by Wilson from inside the Chevy Tahoe police cruiser. But in his testimony, Wilson said two shots were fired inside the car, among several misfires. The shots and misfires preceded the fatal shooting of Brown on the street a few moments later. The shots were fired from the car after Wilson said Brown had reached in to the vehicle, swinging at the officer and grabbing for his pistol. Wilson described Brown as having the intimidating size of “Hulk Hogan.” At one point, he said, Brown pushed his pistol down toward the floor, eventually forcing the firearm into the officer’s thigh. Wilson said Brown appeared to be trying to squeeze the trigger. Eventually, Wilson described getting free of Brown’s grip and raising his weapon toward his attacker. The first attempts by Wilson to get off a round at his attacker failed, he said, as the gun only clicked without firing a bullet. Wilson ultimately said he fired two shots inside the vehicle. After one shot fired he noticed shattered glass and saw blood on his hand, an indication, he said, that Brown had been hit. However, a Ferguson police officer and a detective with the St. Louis County Police said that Wilson told them only one shot was fired inside the car. The two officers — one a 38-year veteran of the Ferguson police force and the other a county detective — were among the first to talk with Wilson after the fatal shooting. Wilson and the other officers said the weapon failed to fire multiple times inside the vehicle."

after reading this, I have absolutely no idea how anyone could have any faith in the investigation or the Ferguson PD

some absolute mickey mouse shit

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 2:49 PM. Reason : text]

11/26/2014 2:44:43 PM

Guy destroys evidence, and bags his own evidence in a case against himself. Don't record any statements until he's had 2 days of coaching from lawyers.

11/26/2014 2:49:35 PM

Quote :

"But just to be clear, what is the "culture and actions that are generally associated with a group of people" that you speak of, and what is that "group of people"?"

It could be anything really, asians cant drive, black people are criminals, hispanics are illegal aliens, white people are rednecks etc. etc.

I suppose if you just say to yourself all asians cant drive or all black people are criminals yes thats racist. I think most people just dislike people who cant drive, are criminals, are illegal aliens, etc regardless of who is actually doing it but if they happen to be of the group stereotyped into doing said thing people want to label you as a racist.

11/26/2014 2:53:05 PM

I think it's pretty likely that the dude got punked by a teenager and was having non of it.


The irony is that he killed a kid for calling him a pussy. And now, in order to exonerate himself, he has to basically admit to the world that he is, in fact, kind of a pussy.



Zimmerman used the same argument: "I'm just a helpless little pussy, and I was forced into a confrontation with a savage beast!

He was high on PCP, Johnson! You saw him! No, no, no paper work. Just sprinkle some crack on him and let's get out of here."

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 2:55:37 PM

so, what exactly could he do to his gun that would destroy evidence?

11/26/2014 2:55:48 PM

Yeah even if the evidence backed up his story there was enough doubt and problems with the investigation and statements to definitely warrant this going to trial on at least some sort of charge even if it wasnt blatant murder.

What happens to guys like this? Do you just move overseas somewhere? Surely he will never be able to go back to living a normal life anywhere in this country right?

11/26/2014 2:59:45 PM

^ casey anthony is living semi normally somewhere. I'm sure he can blend in easily in a 100% white town in the mid west.
------------------------------------

Quote :

"Barack Obama is an earnest moderate. His instincts seem to lead him to the middle ground. For instance, he genuinely believes that there is more overlap between liberals and conservatives then generally admitted. On Monday he nodded toward the "deep distrust" that divides black and brown people from the police, and then pointed out that this was tragic because these are the communities most in need of "good policing." Whatever one makes of this pat framing, it is not a cynical centrism—he believes in the old wisdom of traditional America. This is his strength. This is his weakness. But Obama's moderation is as sincere and real as his blackness, and the latter almost certainly has granted him more knowledge of his country than he generally chooses to share. ... On Monday night, watching Obama both be black and speak for the state was torturous."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/barack-obama-ferguson-and-the-evidence-of-things-unsaid/383212/?single_page=true

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 3:03:23 PM

Do you really think he just put that gun in a bag and didn't wipe it off. It doesn't matter if he did or didn't. The chain of evidence has been broken.

11/26/2014 3:03:39 PM

He'll likely become a right-wing celebrity.

11/26/2014 3:03:42 PM

Yeah, probably star appearing on Foxnews and selling paintings

11/26/2014 3:06:41 PM

Quote :

"I suppose if you just say to yourself all asians cant drive or all black people are criminals yes thats racist. I think most people just dislike people who cant drive, are criminals, are illegal aliens, etc regardless of who is actually doing it but if they happen to be of the group stereotyped into doing said thing people want to label you as a racist."

Every time you see an example of a stereotype, you are solidifying that (often) negative stereotype. In a situation where you are driving and someone is all over the road in front of you, when you pass them and it's a asian driver you think "Of course this person is a bad driver. Asians are bad drivers."

If it's a male you probably don't think, "Of course this person is a bad driver. Men are bad drivers." because that's not an existing stereotype. You tend to not remember these individual instances, and you forget them. Whereas the incidence with the Asian driver is more memorable because you can connect it to a part of your brain that has already labeled Asians.

That is racism.

11/26/2014 3:07:17 PM

Quote :

"The irony is that he killed a kid for calling him a pussy. "

I'm still confused about how you're reaching this conclusion. What facts am I missing here?

11/26/2014 3:07:19 PM

He seems to want to continue his career as a police officer. And since he was cleared in his justified execution of the out of control ape, I think he should continue to serve his community.

11/26/2014 3:08:12 PM

What about when I pass them and say "Oh its a woman that explains it"

11/26/2014 3:08:55 PM

Quote :

"He seems to want to continue his career as a police officer. And since he was cleared in his justified execution of the out of control ape, I think he should continue to serve his community."

If he does that I think we can take the label of pussy off him because that would take some real balls.

11/26/2014 3:13:01 PM

^^^^ According to his own account, Brown insulted him that way.


I flat out don't buy the rest of his highly unlikely account that Brown straight rushed him head on like a wild beast whilst being shot multiple times. Nobody should believe that.


I'm surprised Wilson didn't add, "Brown clearly shouted, 'break yo'self, foo!' " into his outrageous version of the events.

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 3:13:14 PM

Lets take a recess from this trial. They released the video of the 12 year old that supposedly went for his toy gun.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-cleveland-cop-shoot-12-year-old-tamir-rice-n256656

11/26/2014 3:15:21 PM

Quote :

"That is racism."

I disagree. Racism would be if you saw an asian person who was sitting at a stop light and then said "I bet s/he is a bad driver". Its a subtle difference but I think it is one thats important to make. Racism is believing/acting on a stereotype when it is absent or generalizing something that one person did to the rest of the group that may or may not do that same thing.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 3:16:17 PM

Quote :

" think that's what you call a "strawman". or something"

How is bringing up the Jena6 a strawman it's relevant to the whole white-black relations that this topic is centered around. In Jena 6 the black community demanded a group of black youth to be pardoned for nearly beating to death a dude. Apparently being an environment of racism excuses one to act uncivilly. In Jena6 its beating a random dude in Ferguson its razing the town.

Funny thing about the Jena 6 is that 4 of the 6 youths ended up getting arrested later on for assault and other violent crimes.

11/26/2014 3:18:17 PM

What does the Jena 6 have to do with Michael Brown?

11/26/2014 3:21:41 PM

wtf does that have to do with this?

11/26/2014 3:22:08 PM

Classic Conservative bullshit spewing. Start talking off topic to hide the fact that you are a damn idiot.

11/26/2014 3:23:50 PM

Quote :

"Funny thing about the Jena 6 is that 4 of the 6 youths ended up getting arrested later on for assault and other violent crimes."

I wouldn't use the word funny.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 3:30:02 PM

Quote :

"Personally I think with the picture above that all of those situations should be treated the same. Celebrating your teams victory should be in the same lines and peacefully protesting whatever cause you are protesting. Once you start causing damage to others property and disrupting normal activity for people not involved you have crossed the line into being a criminal. In both situations people should be gassed, arrested, whatever no matter who they are."

11/26/2014 3:40:15 PM

I don't think our country is violent enough. Too many hash taggers and not enough people willing to actually stand up for what they believe in. Rally up and fuck shit up until someone listens to what you have to say.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 3:41:28 PM

Destroying property is only a problem when you have melanin.

11/26/2014 3:41:53 PM

I'd really like to hear Restricted's take on all of this.

11/26/2014 3:44:28 PM

Who gives a fuck what Restricted thinks? Its pretty clear that the problem is systemic deprivation of education not racist police or guns or black people. Our system breeds unparented thugs and then feeds them violence through the media. lol get the fuck out of here

Invest money in education RATHER than building prisons. That is really the bottom line and there isn't anything else to talk about.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 3:49:49 PM

See, the funny thing about your response is, Restricted would at least be able to provide some insight as to what it's actually like to be a cop. And I guarantee he'd contradict things I've said just as easily as he'd contradict things others have said on here, so it's not like I'd expect him to back me up 100%.

11/26/2014 3:52:09 PM

My point is that whether Restricted thinks Wilson is a racist murderer or a completely innocent victim does not change the economic situation for the children of Fergeson. Most of them probably live in a single parent household (because their dad is in jail or dead). Most of them probably will be suspended. Most of them will find alternatives to education. Most of those alternatives are crime. Bottom line.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 3:54:25 PM