i posted this on Facebook this morning

Quote :

"A CALL TO FELLOW REPUBLICANS….it’s time for us to step back and re-evaluate our positions. The country has spoken and the Fox News version of Conservative is not what this country wants. As a registered Republican, and one who feels disconnected with my party, it’s time that we get back to our roots. So if I may, let me vent and mention a few points that the Republican party needs to address. First, individual responsibility, liberty and personal freedom. This is a core value of a true conservative and aligns with another, small Federal Government and States rights. I believe all conservatives will agree that encouraging hard work and personal responsibility is a value that if cultivated will prevent government dependence and a welfare state. However, with that stance we cannot cherry pick what issues the government will meddle in. I’m talking about three major issues here, gay marriage, abortion and the war on drugs. A true Conservative does not what the government to regulate these issues which in fact are personal choices. By involving the government in these issues Republicans are hypocritical and threaten liberty. The solution is easy, keep government out of marriage as it is a religious institution, keep government out of abortion as it is a right to choose, and end the war on drugs, as this is a threat to liberty and is a financial burden on the State. Unfortunately, the Republican party has pandered to the religious right who wish to legislate their form of morality. This has killed the Republican party and flies in the face of the vision our Founding Fathers had for this country. This leads me into the next topic. Drop the religious right NOW!! We need to remove the cancer that is the religious right and Fox News. Let them create their own party. Maybe they will call it the Theocratic party. It would suite them better. Whether you believe it or not, the United States of America is a secular country with freedom of religion, which includes freedom from religion for those Atheists and Agnostics. Separation of Church and State is a core value of America and the Republican party has let that division dissolve. It is killing our party. If the Republican party does not learn to evolve with culture then society will leave us behind. It’s time to take Science seriously and let mythology be what it is. It’s time to make decisions based on facts, data and evidence instead of decisions based on gut, tradition and myth. If we do not grow in this area then we will be left behind and die off while the world around us continues to learn, grown and evolve. It is inevitable, as history has proven, so we have to decide if we will be a party of the future or a party of the past. Finally, the economy and fiscal responsibility. First off let me state this, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK!! There is plenty of data to support this. If you are interested in seeing the data then feel free to email me at jared.grinstead@gmail.com and I will send you a report by the Congressional Research Service, a bi-partisan group, that presents this data in a clear and concise way. But just a quick snippet, “The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth….However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution.” In order to reduce our debt, and balance the budget we must do two things, increase the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy and reduce spending. Unfortunately during the Bush Jr years the Republicans felt the need to abandon fiscal responsibility and instead get in the business of nation building which has had two detrimental effects. One, it created great animosity towards American and two, it put us in severe debt. We have to move away from this era of spreading democracy, being world police and nation building. We can’t afford it and it’s not true to the vision of our Founding Fathers. So in conclusion let me ask that true Conservatives pull together. Let’s re-align ourselves with the future, not continue to be stuck in the past and lets cut away this cancerous Religious Right/ FOX News version of Republican. It’s time to get back to our roots of limited government involvement, fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, and liberty!! Now that is a message that America can get behind! "

11/7/2012 11:08:28 AM

^ love that quote. Can't say I'm (still) a registered republican, but i agree with most of your points there.

11/7/2012 11:12:31 AM

Bible hating seriously needs to stop. It is not the Bible that tells people to be bigots, it is the people in charge of religion that feel like it is the only way that they can fire up the people enough to come and donate money to the pot.

This is an old gimmick by now that is backfiring on them. I wish that the church would GO BACK to the bible, back to instilling messages of example and leadership.

^^ What is the difference between that and how a dem thinks?

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason : still undecided]

11/7/2012 11:13:20 AM

^nope, religion needs fade away. And yes, the bible does tell people to be bigots. Burn it.

^^^I could get behind that brand of Republican

11/7/2012 11:24:25 AM

The Bible is garbage, read a book written in the past millennium.

11/7/2012 11:25:41 AM

So isn't that a Ron Paul world view?

11/7/2012 11:28:54 AM

Quote :

"What is the difference between that and how a dem thinks?"

I think the main difference is the role that the Federal government plays. Obamacare grows the government for example. More power should be given to the States to determine what is best for that state and their people. One size does not fit all.

^ I'm a fan of Ron Paul but some of his ideas, like going back to the gold standard, is a bit unrealistic.

[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason : Rp]

11/7/2012 11:44:35 AM

Quote :

"The Bible is garbage, read a book written in the past millennium. "

Dude, don't turn into them

The bible is not garbage. I am a great defender of the scripture because it has been the inspiration of great leaders, great writers, and great thinkers.

It was horribly misused by the religious reorganization solely to bring more people to church and to donate more into the pot.

Of course, I do not believe in the supernatural, but the take home message is universal and the imitation of Christ aspect can be read and followed by people of all beliefs.

11/7/2012 11:57:15 AM

Quote :

"A CALL TO FELLOW REPUBLICANS….it’s time for us to step back and re-evaluate our positions. The country has spoken and the Fox News version of Conservative is not what this country wants. As a registered Republican, and one who feels disconnected with my party, it’s time that we get back to our roots. So if I may, let me vent and mention a few points that the Republican party needs to address. First, individual responsibility, liberty and personal freedom. This is a core value of a true conservative and aligns with another, small Federal Government and States rights. I believe all conservatives will agree that encouraging hard work and personal responsibility is a value that if cultivated will prevent government dependence and a welfare state. However, with that stance we cannot cherry pick what issues the government will meddle in. I’m talking about three major issues here, gay marriage, abortion and the war on drugs. A true Conservative does not what the government to regulate these issues which in fact are personal choices. By involving the government in these issues Republicans are hypocritical and threaten liberty. The solution is easy, keep government out of marriage as it is a religious institution, keep government out of abortion as it is a right to choose, and end the war on drugs, as this is a threat to liberty and is a financial burden on the State. Unfortunately, the Republican party has pandered to the religious right who wish to legislate their form of morality. This has killed the Republican party and flies in the face of the vision our Founding Fathers had for this country. This leads me into the next topic. Drop the religious right NOW!! We need to remove the cancer that is the religious right and Fox News. Let them create their own party. Maybe they will call it the Theocratic party. It would suite them better. Whether you believe it or not, the United States of America is a secular country with freedom of religion, which includes freedom from religion for those Atheists and Agnostics. Separation of Church and State is a core value of America and the Republican party has let that division dissolve. It is killing our party. If the Republican party does not learn to evolve with culture then society will leave us behind. It’s time to take Science seriously and let mythology be what it is. It’s time to make decisions based on facts, data and evidence instead of decisions based on gut, tradition and myth. If we do not grow in this area then we will be left behind and die off while the world around us continues to learn, grown and evolve. It is inevitable, as history has proven, so we have to decide if we will be a party of the future or a party of the past. Finally, the economy and fiscal responsibility. First off let me state this, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK!! There is plenty of data to support this. If you are interested in seeing the data then feel free to email me at jared.grinstead@gmail.com and I will send you a report by the Congressional Research Service, a bi-partisan group, that presents this data in a clear and concise way. But just a quick snippet, “The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth….However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution.” In order to reduce our debt, and balance the budget we must do two things, increase the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy and reduce spending. Unfortunately during the Bush Jr years the Republicans felt the need to abandon fiscal responsibility and instead get in the business of nation building which has had two detrimental effects. One, it created great animosity towards American and two, it put us in severe debt. We have to move away from this era of spreading democracy, being world police and nation building. We can’t afford it and it’s not true to the vision of our Founding Fathers. So in conclusion let me ask that true Conservatives pull together. Let’s re-align ourselves with the future, not continue to be stuck in the past and lets cut away this cancerous Religious Right/ FOX News version of Republican. It’s time to get back to our roots of limited government involvement, fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, and liberty!! Now that is a message that America can get behind! "

Well said, pretty much why I'm not a Republican anymore. It's not, nor will it ever be, 1956 again.

11/7/2012 12:01:50 PM

sounds more Libertarian than republican to me.

11/7/2012 12:10:56 PM

Chris Christie and Marco Rubio can save the GOP. They need them and the country needs a strong moderate-right leaning Republican Party.

11/7/2012 12:15:54 PM

sparky, what you posted pretty much sums up exactly how i feel and think. it is very eloquently written and intelligent. i have reposted it on my facebook

11/7/2012 12:30:05 PM

^^^^ I think there are very valid arguments throughout that piece. What I really want to see over the next two years is that the Republicans give up trying to hold the tax rates on the wealthy and in turn the Democrats actually commit to some sort of fiscal restraint in spending. Balancing the budget is imperative and both sides have to give.

As for the Christianity argument, you can find writings from Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, etc that show their support of the religion. Yes there are conflicting quotes from some as well, but I assume that stems from the time in their life when they wrote those beliefs. Franklin was purported to have become much more religious as he aged for example.

Regardless I agree that religion does not need to be part of the political argument anymore as it is not what is important right now. Addressing the deficit and budgetary issues is far more important than arguing over abortion or gay marriage.



[Edited on November 7, 2012 at 12:30 PM. Reason : gh]

11/7/2012 12:30:08 PM

^Yes.

11/7/2012 12:35:21 PM

^^ I think that's something we all can agree on

11/7/2012 12:36:48 PM

^ I wish the folks in DC would too. Both sides need to tell their special interest to back off while they get the fiscal issues addressed.

Overall since this is the GOP cred thread, the GOP has basically lost all credibility now since it will not win another election in the foreseeable future without making significant strides towards winning over hispanic and woman voters. Hopefully some of the young guns like Rubio and Jindal can start moving the party towards a more universal platform that more Americans will embrace. I like Paul Ryan, but he cannot be the future of the GOP. I still wish Guliani could have won the GOP nomination back in 2008.

11/7/2012 12:46:22 PM

Quote :

"Chris Christie and Marco Rubio can save the GOP. They need them and the country needs a strong moderate-right leaning Republican Party."

Will require the GOP backing a candidate that is for gay marriage and pro choice, which I know for sure is relected in How Christie has run things in NJ.

Chri

11/7/2012 12:47:46 PM

The GOP will either abandon the neo-conservative, "next in line", crony-capitalist model, or it'll continue to fall out of favor. Like I posted in August:

Quote :

"The Republican party will pay the price for shunning Ron Paul and his supporters. The GOP thought they could disrespect and ignore the libertarian wing and still have them hold their nose and vote for Romney. They are wrong, and they'll have 4 more years of Obama to remind them of that."

There's a steadily growing group of voters that want fiscal responsibility but aren't completely insane on "social issues" and foreign policy. Democrats might be closer to that ideal for a lot of people, but they're still way off.

11/7/2012 12:58:58 PM

Quote :

"There's a steadily growing group of voters that want fiscal responsibility but aren't completely insane on "social issues" and foreign policy. Democrats might be closer to that ideal for a lot of people, but they're still way off. "

That's pretty much the camp I'm in. The GOP has gone so insane on social issues that I can't in good conscience vote for them; I'd rather compromise on my ideals of smaller government and state's rights than I would for the rights of individuals. That's a word the GOP needs to remember: compromise.

11/7/2012 1:10:45 PM

Quote :

"There's a steadily growing group of voters that want fiscal responsibility but aren't completely insane on "social issues" and foreign policy. Democrats might be closer to that ideal for a lot of people, but they're still way off."

Absofuckinglutely. Also, your quote about abandoning the Ron Paul supporters is dead on. I didn't vote for Romney because I don't agree with him (I definitely didn't vote for Obama) and I will continue to abstain from supporting the Republican party until they change. Part of me is glad Obama won just in hopes that it continues to destroy those clowns who plague the Republican party.

If the GOP wants to survive it better start morphing itself into a version of the Libertarian party and fast.

11/7/2012 1:29:07 PM

will I get suspended if I make a GOP suicide watch thread?

serious question

11/7/2012 2:29:51 PM

Quote :

"First, individual responsibility, liberty and personal freedom. This is a core value of a true conservative and aligns with another, small Federal Government and States rights. I believe all conservatives will agree that encouraging hard work and personal responsibility is a value that if cultivated will prevent government dependence and a welfare state. However, with that stance we cannot cherry pick what issues the government will meddle in. I’m talking about three major issues here, gay marriage, abortion and the war on drugs. A true Conservative does not what the government to regulate these issues which in fact are personal choices. By involving the government in these issues Republicans are hypocritical and threaten liberty."

You're really not a Republican. You can call yourself one, but on the issues you clearly are not.

11/7/2012 2:50:45 PM

Why not? Isn't the Republican party the party of limited Government, States rights, personal responsibility and freedom?

11/7/2012 3:02:30 PM

no, they're not.

11/7/2012 3:03:51 PM

In name only. They love paying lip service to those values without actually following them.

11/7/2012 3:04:04 PM

^^^not for awhile now, no

11/7/2012 3:05:34 PM

'Unskewed' Pollster: 'Nate Silver Was Right, And I Was Wrong'

Quote :

"Dean Chambers, the man who garnered praise from the right and notoriety on the left for his "Unskewed Polling" site, admitted today that his method was flawed. "Nate Silver was right, and I was wrong," Chambers said in a phone interview. Chambers' method of "unskewing" polls involved re-weighting the sample to match what he believed the electorate would look like, in terms of party identification. He thought the electorate would lean more Republican when mainstream pollsters routinely found samples that leaned Democratic. But as it turned out, the pollsters were right — self-identified Democrats outnumbered Republicans by 6% in election exit polls. "I think it was much more in the Democratic direction than most people predicted," Chambers said. "But those assumptions — my assumptions — were wrong." Chambers' official Electoral College prediction ended up being much more tame than other conservatives, including Dick Morris. Chambers predicted Romney would win 275 electoral votes to Obama's 263. But he said he probably won't go back to "unskewing" polls next time. He actually thinks conservative-leaning pollsters like Scott Rasmussen have a lot more explaining to do. "He has lost a lot of credibility, as far as I'm concerned," Chambers said. "He did a lot of surveys. A lot of those surveys were wrong.""

http://www.businessinsider.com/unskewed-pollster-dean-chambers-nate-silver-election-dick-morris-michael-barone-2012-11

11/7/2012 3:09:03 PM

Quote :

"In name only. They love paying lip service to those values without actually following them."

And that is what I am upset about. We need to get back to our roots. These RINOs of the last 20 years are really pissing me off.

11/7/2012 3:18:14 PM

Yea, but sadly they keep moving further and further away from the ideals they espouse. I consider myself a raging liberal and I'd LOVE for a decent fiscally conservative republican party to show up...but it's not happening.

11/7/2012 3:22:10 PM

yeah well that's what my rant is about. if we don't get back to those principles fiscally and grow up socially then the Republican party is fucked.

11/7/2012 3:30:56 PM

Yup.

11/7/2012 5:26:07 PM

i really wish libertarian ideals would take hold in conservative circles.

let states make their own rules, fiscal conservatism, and for chrissakes, stop telling people what to do in the bedroom and doctor's office.

11/7/2012 5:29:38 PM

Lets get a few more Tea Baggerish Republicans to run for the Senate...really helps the Dems out....I think that is 4 seats that they have costs them in the Senate they past two election cycles. Harry Reid was a goner and probably the only person he could beat is a tea bagger in 2010 and he did. Also, we new a few more of them to talk about babies and rape....it has worked so well for the Dems...

11/7/2012 6:39:13 PM

lol

11/7/2012 6:49:12 PM

I'm not ashamed to admit the day after I'm ashamed.

From now on ill vote for a 3rd party that does not currently exist.

11/7/2012 7:02:49 PM

I tuned in to limbaugh today to hear him ramble for ~10 minutes wondering why minorities and women don't vote for the GOP

He seemed honestly puzzled.

11/7/2012 7:09:14 PM

Shit, he's happy as a clown.

He's suddenly made relevant for another 4 years.

Hopefully before that and definitely after he will be completely abandoned.

He can run one of those crazy AM stations out in Montana.

11/7/2012 7:12:21 PM

lol

11/7/2012 7:17:25 PM

Tea Party leaders already going hard after Mitt, calling him a weak-kneed moderate. They have some good ideas but they just don't get it and it's killing their party.

And the conservative outrage at Christie is sad... but predictable.

11/7/2012 7:27:40 PM

Is Sarah Palin still chumming around with the Tea Party?

Isn't that enough to make them irrelevant?

I'm sure Chris Christie doesn't give two shits about the talking heads' opinion of him. Probably finds it comical-

11/7/2012 7:55:34 PM

I know jack shit about Chris Christie

but his personality from the sound bites is fantastic

11/7/2012 8:18:17 PM

I agree with darned near all of that, except for the part about abortion. Abortion is as much of a "personal choice" as is murder. The rest of it, spot on.

11/7/2012 8:35:56 PM

Quote :

"Tea Party leaders already going hard after Mitt, calling him a weak-kneed moderate. They have some good ideas but they just don't get it and it's killing their party."

Do they really think that the problem is that the GOP isn't... extreme enough. That there are these rabid right wing extremists that thought Romney just wasn't pushing the party line hard enough that those people voted for Obama or didn't vote at all?

The GOP will continue to sprial into irrelevancy until they realize that the strata they're losing to the democrats are the moderates. So... yeah, keep catering to only the most hardcore among your base and continue acting surprised at how many people you turn off... that'll work.

Quote :

"And the conservative outrage at Christie is sad... but predictable."

it's this kind of shit.

as much as I think dubya was a bad president, as much as I disagreed with much of what happened under his watch, it wasn't like every single thing he did for 8 years was completely flat out wrong. Most reasonable people, regardless of party, can admit this. But it seems that the GOP increasingly frowns upon even the slightest acknowledgement of positivity towards anyone of the opposing party. again... this kind of shit turns reasonable people off.

11/7/2012 8:38:29 PM

Quote :

"Do they really think that the problem is that the GOP isn't... extreme enough."

sadly yes

and sparky rock on

11/7/2012 9:32:48 PM

good thing bob mcdonnell is so smart

Quote :

""We've got to be a lot more inclusive and open and energetic and wanting people to join our team by expressing why these conservative values are good for people of all races, creeds, colors, and national origin," McDonnell, previously a top surrogate for Mitt Romney, said on the program. "We've just got to do a better job with that.""

11/7/2012 10:03:48 PM

Quote :

"They need them and the country needs a strong moderate-right leaning Republican Party."

The country already has a strong moderate-right leaning party. They're called Democrats. You just finished voting for someone who fits that description.

11/7/2012 11:46:14 PM

I think this sums it up nicely why the right was so surprised to lose while Nate Silver nailed it 51/51: Republican echo chamber has led to a self-imposed information disadvantage

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/how-conservative-media-lost-to-the-msm-and-failed-the-rank-and-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File

Quote :

"It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear. But guess what? You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election."

[Edited on November 8, 2012 at 8:20 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2012 8:17:34 AM

^ I love that article. I have shared it with my conservative friends but they refuse to acknowledge its points

11/8/2012 7:54:49 PM

And that's why this wont be their last big surprise-loss

11/9/2012 9:34:11 AM

set em up

11/9/2012 3:14:24 PM