Gotcha. I was implicating Restricted strictly to give color on what mentality goes through a cops mind in any given situation and what typical protocols and what not are.

I certainly don't deny the socioeconomic fuck-ups that are rampant throughout the country, Ferguson being a case in point.

11/26/2014 3:58:22 PM

Quote :

"Invest money in education RATHER than building prisons."

What is the point in investing in education when disaffected black youths are just going to drop-out anyway....

Last time I heard the high school drop out rate was something like 48% for black males.

The problem isn't skin color or the educational system but parenting. Right now M. Brown's step dad is setting a GREAT example for our youth but screaming to "burn this bitch down"

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 4:05 PM. Reason : a]

11/26/2014 4:04:50 PM

Good point. Their parents should get out of jail and raise them.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 4:07:38 PM

^^to be fair, you can't expect him to act in the capacity of a role model after this happened to his kid

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 4:07 PM. Reason : a]

11/26/2014 4:07:50 PM

So msny people in This country have redifined racism categorizing people into behavioral trends based on skill color is not racist to many.

Thats pretty alarming. Stereotypes based on race are racism.

Due to the countries racist past moderate racists dont even think they are racist as long as they have a black friend and dont wear white sheets after 5pm.

11/26/2014 4:09:59 PM

Im a cop, what kind of insight do you need

11/26/2014 4:11:03 PM

Yup, he's experience a great personal loss, even if he's not an upstanding citizen. They tried petitioning higher authorities, they tried protesting, they even made their case to the UN. When all other options fail, how should a powerless minority react? Vote Democrat?

11/26/2014 4:12:20 PM

Quote :

"Im a cop, what kind of insight do you need"

Would you shoot would deadly force (like you're supposed to) if you thought your life was threatened?
Yes? Great. Thank you for your insight

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 4:14:11 PM

yes I would.

and just so we are clear, a suspect attempting to disarm you by taking your weapon, justifies deadly force.

11/26/2014 4:18:32 PM

^What is your typical agitation/anticipation level when approaching a scene where you've been informed a gun is there, a gun is possibly there or shots have been fired?

Are you trained in ways to maintain your adrenaline/nerves?

What is the protocol for entering this type of scene? (referencing the 12 yo who was shot after the cops drove the car right up to him)

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 4:18 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 4:19 PM. Reason : a]

11/26/2014 4:18:32 PM

More of this



for less of this

11/26/2014 4:18:47 PM

Quote :

"^^to be fair, you can't expect him to act in the capacity of a role model after this happened to his kid"

Yes, you can. What about Mike's father, Mike Brown senior? I would say his response makes him a much better role model. And that was just as much of [I]his[/I] kid

11/26/2014 4:21:06 PM

Quote :

"and just so we are clear, a suspect attempting to disarm you by taking your weapon, justifies deadly force."

Of course it does. I would support deadly force after physical intimidation from a suspect. Everyone (especially black people) knows that cops have guns. Don't fuck with them. If you fuck with cops and get shot then it is your fault.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/26/2014 4:21:52 PM

^^You are using the term father loosely. He was his sperm doner, the step dad was the real parent. You might need to do some research on how single parent black homes work. 9/10 times the mom turns the kid into a weapon/free check and the dad has no power.

11/26/2014 4:23:50 PM

^

11/26/2014 4:25:15 PM

if you are responding to a call of a person reported to actually have a weapon--like a fight, domestic, or disturbance, or someone brandishing a weapon in public--obviously you are going to approach more cautiously and with a possible plan in your mind. Your senses and adrenaline will be heightened, it is human nature. You are trained repeatedly to not go into "tunnel vision", but it can still happen because it is human nature.

if you arrive on scene and locate the possible person you are looking for, but dont see a weapon, you will normally challenge them at gunpoint, prone them out, until you can search them and clear the weapon or determine if they even have one or not.

if you arrive and see someone actually brandishing a weapon, you will challenge them at gunpoint and attempt to get them to drop the weapon and get on the ground. if they make an aggressive gesture with the weapon, you are looking at deadly force. and all of this can happen in a split second. they may either run, drop the weapon and comply, or try to use it on you. you just dont know. deadly force for police in NC, found in GS 15A-401d2 states you can use deadly force to protect yourself or a 3rd party from the use or imminent use of deadly physical force. imminent use of deadly force may be someone brandishing a weapon in an aggressive mannner and not complying to surrender, and deadly force is a person pointing or attempting to point the weapon at you or a 3rd party.

court precedent has also stated that since cops have to make split second decisions on deadly force, they dont have to be right they have to be reasonable. what this means is that in the case of the 12 year old with the toy gun that looked real, the cop was wrong in that it was not a real gun, but was reasonable because he had no way of knowing that. 12 year old gang members do carry real guns these days, and no cop wants to kill a kid, but the kid apparently made some kind of aggressive gesture with the toy gun.

I have personally been in many situations like the ones i described above. i have almost shot someone on a traffic stop because they had a sawed off shotgun "airsoft" gun that they had purposefully sawed off the barrel and stock to make it look like a real sawed off shotgun...probably to commit robberies with .

also, deadly force is deadly force, it doenst matter if you shoot someone, or stab them in the throat. if you are in a struggle with a suspect, trying to overpower you and steal your weapon, and all you can do is beat him over the head with a brick..that is still justified in a deadly force situation. the ignorant public will shout brutality, but they just dont get it.

if you have never actually been in some of these situations, it is easy to judge and call the cops brutal militant racist whatever.

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 5:09 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2014 5:06:57 PM

Apparently its on video that the cop hopped out and shot the kid.

11/26/2014 5:17:21 PM

^^ thank you for that and your service!

11/26/2014 5:21:36 PM

12yo gangsters are a thing?

11/26/2014 5:22:46 PM

^
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/29/chicago-s-teen-girl-ganglord-real-life-lil-snoop.html

https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-gangs

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 5:30 PM. Reason : a]

11/26/2014 5:29:43 PM

white supremacists burned down michael browns church

11/26/2014 5:43:11 PM

so so stupid

11/26/2014 5:47:52 PM

No condemnation about that.

11/26/2014 5:59:40 PM

there should be

11/26/2014 6:21:09 PM

What system is broken?

If you mind your business and obey the law, you won't have a run in with the 'system'

The schools, 'system', government, etc. aren't in the child rearing business, and nor should they be.

Who told anyone, of any color, to have a kid out of wedlock they can't afford and then be a dumbass (steal blunt wrappers in this case)?

This whole situation should have never happened, but to blame the system avoiding the underlying problem.

Also, Stereotypes exist for a reason.

11/26/2014 6:36:08 PM

Quote :

"if they make an aggressive gesture with the weapon, you are looking at deadly force."

Funny how merely being black increases the perceived aggression to the cop....


What with their Incredible Hulk strength and demonic eyes and all.

Quote :

"  no cop wants to kill a kid, but the kid apparently made some kind of aggressive gesture with the toy gun"

If it was so reasonable, then why didn't the more experienced cop also shoot the child? Could it be that his inexperience and likely fear of black people led him to behave.............UNREASONABLY?!


(by the way, according to the guardian, the cop reported the black male down as being in his TWENTIES)

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 6:58 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 6:54:27 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shot_1.html

shooting happens a little after 7:05

but of course watch the whole thing

11/26/2014 7:00:09 PM

I think it's pretty telling that the excuses for excessive force are pretty much parallel to the "fog of war" arguments that are used to excuse overseas killings.

Cops are not an occupying military, and should not be afforded the same leniency we haphazardly give our military. Their primary job is to protect life. All life. Not just their own.

11/26/2014 7:10:43 PM

look, you people ask for a cops honest perspective, so i gave it.

I answered cherokees questions in an intelligent way.

im not here to sit in judgement or speculate on what other cops did in a situation that I was not involved in

11/26/2014 7:11:02 PM

Dude, I'm not shitting on you. I just think we should expect more from cops and not bend over backwards every time they fuck up and kill children.

11/26/2014 7:15:28 PM

Quote :

"Stereotypes based on race are racism."

Your broader point has some merit.

On this statement, though, there is an important, if narrow, distinction. Those stereotypes are prejudice. Applying them to an individual, especially in a discriminatory way, is racism.

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 7:22 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2014 7:21:56 PM

Fuck it, I was going to type a long diatribe, but I'm spent.

11/26/2014 7:23:16 PM

Quote :

"If it was so reasonable, then why didn't the more experienced cop also shoot the child?"

The "more experienced cop" was in the driver's seat which, as you can see from the video, was not the side the kid was approaching from. By the time he was able to get out of the car, the other cop had already shot the kid. If you continue watching the video, you see both of them with guns drawn aimed right at the kid. I will guarantee the other cop would have shot him too.

11/26/2014 7:41:38 PM

damn they shot that kid quick. wtf? They didn't even try to see what was going on, just rolled up and shot him. That's fucked up yo. If a soldier did that in A-stan, they'd send his ass to jail. For real, a first lieutenant just got 20 years in military jail for ordering his soldiers to kill 2 suspected members of Taliban moments before an ambush.



One of my biggest problems with the shooting of Brown was the police response afterwards; and the police shouldn't be rolling with the military's stuff. You wanna be cool and have military toys, join the military.

11/26/2014 7:50:52 PM

the more experienced cop would have gotten out with gun drawn simply because he heard gunshots

id be more interested in the conversation between the two cops as they drove up

11/26/2014 7:52:01 PM

they damn near ran the kid over before homie jumped fell out the car shooting him.

11/26/2014 7:52:54 PM

Quote :

"If you mind your business and obey the law, you won't have a run in with the 'system'"

I call BS on this, too many cases of cops obtaining "NO KNOCK" warrants to raid peoples house because they went to a garden store or are growing an herb garden on their deck.


Also ask Cheye Calvo about how well that plan works. Got his house ransacked by the po-po and his two family dogs slaughtered for no reason. The police put a package with drugs on his porch then did a swat raid once he brought it in the house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid

11/26/2014 8:13:32 PM

i will say one thing about "militarization"

the militarization you see is not NORMAL operating procedure for any dept. it is a response to a violent riot and unrest. most cops day-to-day are not decked out in helmets and shields. and it is also not some kind of trend, because it has been this way for 100 years. i wrote a long article about this on my site if anyone cares to read it let me know. and i will send a link or post it.

militarized equipment, like rifles, armored vehicles, has a purpose as well, but it is not used in regular functions, only in special cases.

do i think SWAT raids and drug enforcement is over used and heavy handed--yes i do. as a libertarian i whole heartedly disagree with a lot of it. is there a purpose for SWAT and SWAT raids, yes there is, but again i agree it is over used.

the point is, this militarization you see on TV is riot control, not normal operation. the day cops are driving down the street in tanks, and standing on corners with rifles for no reason other than special circumstances or some kind of terrorism deterrence, like new years eve or boston marathon type things, i will be the first to speak out.
s

11/26/2014 8:26:20 PM

So you agree that the overuse of SWAT style raids is excessive. You also seem to understand that crowd control measures have intensified.



But somehow this isn't an indicator of militarization? Man, I think you are making a semantic argument. I'm sure you're aware of how much DOD equipment is given to municipalities, and of the intensified tactics used by police departments. It should come as no surprise that a nation that spends a decade occupying other countries would soon begin using those same tactics to their own population.


Just because we don't have men in fatigues demanding saying "papers please" doesn't mean there isn't a trend of militarization.

11/26/2014 9:57:55 PM

[Edited on November 26, 2014 at 10:20 PM. Reason : ~]

11/26/2014 10:17:29 PM

Cops need to stop killing unarmed black people.

11/26/2014 10:45:04 PM

Quote :

"Cops need to stop killing unarmed black people."

11/26/2014 10:48:42 PM

I always like when they do something stupid during a drug investigation, like throw a grenade on a baby or murder a family pet in front of some kids, and then say "oh, but we are doing this to protect the children".

11/26/2014 11:10:58 PM

Quote :

"^^You are using the term father loosely. He was his sperm doner, the step dad was the real parent. You might need to do some research on how single parent black homes work. 9/10 times the mom turns the kid into a weapon/free check and the dad has no power"

Are you advising that I should be stereotyping a specific family based on some racist notion that you have about black families in general? In a thread about how a cop killed a teen largely due to stereotyping him? Oh, the irony

You might need to do some research on how black kids grow up. 9/10 times they are juvenile delinquents with a history of disrespecting cops

[Edited on November 27, 2014 at 12:10 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2014 12:00:08 AM

Quote :

"Are you advising that I should be stereotyping a specific family based on some racist notion that you have about black families in general? In a thread about how a cop killed a teen largely due to stereotyping him? Oh, the irony"

A racist generalization of something I have direct knowledge of. Something I've seen/been around/lived my entire life. I'm not going to debate the inner workings of black families with you. Here's an experiment for you and everyone else in this thread that is a expert on black people. Look down at your left hand, now count off your minority friends. I mean real friends, not acquaintances, coworkers etc. I bet you don't get passed 3. How can white people think they understand minorities when three quarters of American whites have 0 minority friends.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/25/three-quarters-of-whites-dont-have-any-non-white-friends/

Go back to your country club, you have no clue what you are talking about. Honestly I bet you aren't on a first name basis with 10 brown people (Doesn't even have to be African American). Whites live in a self segregated bubble.



[Edited on November 27, 2014 at 12:22 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2014 12:13:21 AM

I never lived in a country club, stereotype much?

I will admit that I am not an expert on black people. In fact, I never met a black person until I was about 15 years old because there weren't any where I lived. Now that I know a few, I just assume they could be any type of people. I happen to know a thing or two about biological fathers and a stepfathers, and I am a father myself, I know people who have been living in single family homes with stepparent, and I can tell you that biological parent is not "just a sperm donor". In this particular case, from what I seen, the biological father, Michael Brown Sr, seemed to be just as crushed about the death of his son as Mike Brown's stepfather, Louis Hear.

And here you are telling me that instead of looking at this family's situation in specific, I should learn more about black families so I can stereotype them better. Wow.

Now go back to the public housing, you are just as racist as the people you criticize



[Edited on November 27, 2014 at 12:39 AM. Reason : If you still want that bet, you just lost it]

11/27/2014 12:31:38 AM

You should learn more about minorities so you can understand them. The stereotyping will come naturally to you since its a learned behavior. You applied your self concocted stereotypical single family ideal to this family, and I'm wrong for pointing out how it really works in most black homes? Shrug the point of my argument is going over your head so I'll quit. Have you made it passed 0 on your list of minority friends yet?

11/27/2014 12:40:46 AM

The thing is, I didn't apply shit. I actually looked at the interviews of both parents. You made your decisions based on your "extensively researched" stereotypes. Do you know Michael Brown's family? Do you know how close were the son and his father? If not, you are just being racist.

On the flip side of the coin, count on your hand how many LEO's are in your social circle, I bet you are not on first name basis with 10 policemen. So even by your fucked up logic, you have no standing to comment on this story, because you don't know about how it's like to be and LEO and what went on in Wilson's head.

Quote :

"The stereotyping will come naturally to you since its a learned behavior."

The whole idea of not being racially prejudiced, instead of stereotyping people you should treat each one as an individual, you racist fuck

[Edited on November 27, 2014 at 12:52 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2014 12:48:31 AM

http://www.khq.com/story/27489010/nfl-player-benjamin-watsons-ferguson-post-on-facebook-goes-viral

Other than the gospel part, this is a pretty balanced statement.

11/27/2014 12:58:50 AM

Quote :

"On the flip side of the coin, count on your hand how many LEO's are in your social circle, I bet you are not on first name basis with 10 policemen. So even by your fucked up logic, you have no standing to comment on this story, because you don't know about how it's like to be and LEO and what went on in Wilson's head."

Actually I know exactly what went through his head since its well documented in his testimony and ABC prime time interview. I also know what went through Michael Browns head (2 bullets). Admirable attempt to redirect the topic, but this is about race relations, not understanding the mindset of a cop. You are really asking a African American male does he know 10 cops . So you read some well coached, cherry picked interviews and you now know everything about the them? I'm confused, how are you not applying you limited knowledge of minority single parent homes to this family?

^^ How does pointing out that you will learn the stereotype make me racist? I admire your white guilt, but you aren't fooling me.

^Meh I read that and was less than impressed. He essentially hit soft balls on both sides of the issue, and then used the classic black crutch of god fixing everything.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730153/A-kid-broken-home-beat-odds-to-college-A-rapper-sang-smoking-weed-feds-A-violent-robbery-suspect-caught-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

Quote :

"For much of his childhood his mother Lesley McSpadden, 34, was a single mother. His biological father Mike Brown Sr, 36, was in and out of his life. According to family, in recent years that relationship had strengthened as Mike Sr remarried and Michael became very close to his stepmother. "

I knew I'd find it somewhere.


[Edited on November 27, 2014 at 1:06 AM. Reason : Thanks, now assume some more]

11/27/2014 12:59:36 AM