4

9/19/2004 2:31:43 PM

Hurray, topanga can count!

9/19/2004 4:39:43 PM

Congrats David...thats badass

9/19/2004 6:33:38 PM

thanks

9/19/2004 9:08:08 PM

Congrats on the nice finish, nice job beating 1200 people.

9/19/2004 9:18:55 PM

Thanks, if only I could have beaten one more....

9/20/2004 1:15:21 AM

My only poker story for tonight is...

I suck at poker.

9/20/2004 1:15:51 AM

David,

I'm sure your account must be bursting full of money. If you need to free up some space, I'll allow you to transfer some of that money to my account.

Cordially,
Greg

9/20/2004 7:46:23 AM

David, Jon... i'd have to say that you guys do make the most money that I've ever seen on PP. seems like everytime i get up around 300, i lose it all. start calling draws and playing rags. but, i was wondering, to make 1k in a night, you guys sit at the 2/4, 3/6 or what? cause the most i've ever been able to make, with HOT hands is like 500 at the 2/4... i tried my luck at NL, but i lost it all... super tilt.... anyways, i know there's a lot of big fish out there on PP for all of us to snag, just wanted to see if you guys had any tips for us?

9/20/2004 9:23:21 AM

limit omaha hi/lo is the only place i make money on pp.

i dont understand how i get drawn out so hardcore on the holdem tables there.

i think its because i just suck.

9/20/2004 9:30:20 AM

dyson,

You have to find what suits your style of play the best.

Jon Turner is a great NL cash table player, so he plays the $50 NL tables.

David is a great all-around player and a really solid tournament player, so he plays NL cash tables and tournaments.

I'm a pretty decent tournament player, so I play tournaments almost exclusively. I play $20 NL Hold 'Em single table tourneys, but have switched almost exclusively to $30 Omaha Hi/Lo tournaments, which suit my conservative and patient style of play.

There is a ton of money to be made on PartyPoker. There are fish and suckers at every table. I'd love to see a study on which tables are the most profitable (i.e. where the highest percentage of fish gather).

.......back to my Omaha tourney.........

9/20/2004 9:53:30 AM

I think its safe to say I'm considered the best limit hold'em player in Raleigh so I could give you a few pointers...

if you're letting how much you're up/down for the session affect the way you play any hand then thats mistake #1.

Just concentrate on playing tight pre-flop. If you're playing low limit on PP (2/4, 3/6) then you're going to have to play a tight/aggressive game. In a casino you can open things up a bit. Try to avoid speculative hands (low pocket pairs, low suited connectors) unless you can get in an unraised pot from late position.

Push your top pairs hard early, only draw when you've got odds.... almost never slowplay. The object is to get bets in the pot.

You're going to have to accept the fact that you're going to have some losing sessions and bad streaks. I know of a successful pro that plays 15/30 almost exclusively that's down 400 big bets for the month of September ($12,000). Now that's a lot bigger than you're average downswing, but just be aware that poker (particularly limit) is a long run game not a get-rich quick scheme.

Read Lee Jones Low limit hold'em for some advice on post flop play. I can't possibly explain every intricacy of the game in this forum...

oh and im being somewhat facetious about the best limit hold'em player in Raleigh. But am one of the select few that prefers it to no limit. and of the even fewer that had the balls to drop out of school to prove myself. These other kids all have backup plans.

In Rounders they call that "leaving yourself outs". I call it being a pussy

http://www.geocities.com/guysfromraleigh

9/20/2004 10:16:19 AM

i think i can play pretty tight pre-flop and tight-aggressive... the only problem is that once i'm up 200 or so, i start to get these grand ideas about making thousands and it clouds my judgement. i basically need someone watching me and slapping me when i call low suited connectors or just start to think A-Xs can win a hand. it's also that i don't really have a big bankroll. i'll be able to put in about 100/month into pp and when it's gone, it's gone.... i can usually take that 100 up to about 5, but then i cash out and spend the money, and then lose the balance that i left in...

9/20/2004 12:53:19 PM

Then it sounds like you need to exert some self-control.

If you won't call a hand when you're short-stacked, don't call it when you have a lot of chips.

A-x isn't a good hand.

Until you get a handle on your willpower, set a limit that you're going to cash out at once you hit it. To start off, set the limit at three times your buy-in.

Just remember that once you take chips from someone, it's not their chips anymore. That's your money, so if you blow it on a bad call, you can't say, "oh, those were just the chips that I took from PearlJammed three hands ago." No, that was YOUR 20 bucks that you just blew.

Be consistent in your play, and your bankroll will reflect that.

Also, leave enough money in you account so you can weather the highs and lows that might happen any given night.

9/20/2004 1:10:03 PM

I meant A-X Suited... A-Xs? but anyways, yeah i realize RARELY will A-Xs win you the pot... but i get these voices in my head telling me it's going to win... that three clubs are going to flop... or something to that extent. And as far as 2/4, what do you guys think is a good enough bankroll for it? I've been looking at PP as a way to provide me with about $500/month or so, and i think that's a VERY conservative estimate... but what do you guys think I should expect to be making? I do believe that i'm a pretty good player... need to go to one of jonturner's games to actually SHOW you guys, but i've played fairly well in many situations... just i start to lose that hard discipline after so many hours... and that's a BIG part of why i'm not GREAT...

9/20/2004 1:21:00 PM

Quote :

"http://www.geocities.com/guysfromraleigh"

wtf was that story all about?

9/20/2004 1:33:19 PM

Quote :

"And as far as 2/4, what do you guys think is a good enough bankroll for it?"

my rule is at least 50x big bet.

with that, you can take a few hits, and still be comfortable.

9/20/2004 2:07:15 PM

I have a question for all you poker players..............

My dad is taking me to Vegas for a weekend in NOV. as a belated 21st birthday present and giving me money to play poker with

I want to know where there are some good tournys. It can be either Omaha h/l or hold 'em.

9/20/2004 3:53:49 PM

uh....

the casinos?

9/20/2004 3:56:53 PM

Duuuuhhhhhhhhhhh.... I was hoping for a reccommendation a little more specific. SInce I wil ony be there for a weekend, I know I can't go all over looking for one that I want to play in.

9/20/2004 4:04:03 PM

I'd say the Mirage... or maybe Bellagio, but either place is going to be a tough crowd... generally, i feel that AC is a LOT easier than Vegas, but that's just me...

9/20/2004 4:18:19 PM

oh i was wonderin if any of you guys know of deposit bonuses on pp?

9/20/2004 4:49:16 PM

Quote :

"David, Jon... i'd have to say that you guys do make the most money that I've ever seen on PP. seems like everytime i get up around 300, i lose it all. start calling draws and playing rags. but, i was wondering, to make 1k in a night, you guys sit at the 2/4, 3/6 or what? cause the most i've ever been able to make, with HOT hands is like 500 at the 2/4... i tried my luck at NL, but i lost it all... super tilt.... anyways, i know there's a lot of big fish out there on PP for all of us to snag, just wanted to see if you guys had any tips for us?"

You have to learn not to go on tilt. Sometimes I will get 3 bad beats in a row and start throwing money down the drain. You should probably just stop playing after several bad beats because if you don't take a break, then you will play like crap. I usually set a certain time limit and then I stop playing after that whether I am up 300 or down 300. The basic strategy is tight and aggressive. Jon and I always do well because we play 4 tables at once. You can not make big profits playing one table. You will only make a little, and you will probably get bored and start playing crappy hands. I started out playing 2-4, and I always did 4 tables. I started out with a $300 bankroll for playing 2-4 which I built by playing small $10 tourneys and lower limit cash games. Martin rallydurham pretty much taught me everything I know about limit, but I got tired of so many bad beats, so I eventually switched to no limit. There aren't many good bonuses for party poker unless this is your first time signing up. Sometimes they have reload bonuses every few months. Currently I always keep my bankroll at $500 and cash out half whenever I get to 1K. I usually only play multi tournaments for fun but I got lucky and ended up big with the one this past weekend. You should come out and play with us sometime if you like tournaments.

Quote :

"oh and im being somewhat facetious about the best limit hold'em player in Raleigh. But am one of the select few that prefers it to no limit. and of the even fewer that had the balls to drop out of school to prove myself. These other kids all have backup plans. In Rounders they call that "leaving yourself outs". I call it being a pussy"

Yes Martin, I am too much of a pussy to quit my cushy programming job for IBM and play poker full time. Speaking of droppin out....didn't you sign up for classes again this semester?

[Edited on September 20, 2004 at 5:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2004 5:36:22 PM

I dont have a choice.......I am tagging along for part of my dad's business trip.....and its not my money...

I am ultra excited and I know I am not that great and I should play with the Turner group again, however, it lost its charm since its not readily available downstairs


Thanks for the recommendations.....

9/20/2004 5:39:10 PM

what do you guys think of ultimatebet.com

9/20/2004 5:58:14 PM

I use it, but you can only play 3 tables at once.

9/20/2004 6:26:32 PM

hmmm i used to play two-three tables at once, but i started going on big swings... i guess it was me calling crap that i know i shouldn't have been playing... i also played 25 NL but got tired of getting my all-ins called when I had AA and had people winning with 72... ok so that's a little exaggerated, but still. you get the idea...

9/20/2004 7:14:07 PM

There will always be swings. That is why you need a bankroll.

9/20/2004 7:42:33 PM

^ you think 50x the big bet is good enough like someone mentioned? especially if i'm working 4 or more tables of 2/4?

9/20/2004 7:49:26 PM

I would certainly do no less than 50X, personally I prefer 100X if I am playing 4 tables at once.

9/20/2004 8:08:23 PM

supersystem suggests 200x big bet, but that seems a bit much

but atleast 50x/table is what i do

[Edited on September 20, 2004 at 8:10 PM. Reason : e]

9/20/2004 8:10:34 PM

200-300 big bets is the recommendation if you are playing poker as your main source of income.

If you want to play 2/4 with $300 and it's not going to ruin your life if you lose all of it, thats fine...

I've been playing mostly 5/10 the past few weeks with only around $1,000 in the account... If I hit a bad run of cards then I could easily lose it all, but it's not like I wouldn't be able to eat that month.

Make sure you've got a solid understanding of the game before you start multitabling. You need to be able to know how to play every situation postflop to a tee. Realistically, you're only going to be seeing around 20-23% of the flops, so playing more than one table at once isn't that tough... If you want some practice start out at an even lower limit like .50/1 jsut so you get used to it. Resize your monitor resolution so all the tables fit at once.

Also, from your posts you sound a bit too results oriented (i.e. maybe 3 clubs will flop). Think of Ax suited this way. You'll make a flush about 1 time out of 20 with this hand. A few of those hands you won't be there to see it because it'll be runner-runner, but thats besides the point. SO basically if it cost you $2 to see the flop, you're going to need to extract $40 from everyone else to mkae this a break-even proposition (not including your own money in the pot). Ax suited doesnt have a lot of other ways to win the pot. In fact a lot of times you'll get sucked in if you flop an ace and end up paying off someone with a higher kicker.

The no limit players love hands like J9 suited because it gives them the ability to win huge pots when they hit. At limit it's much more of a math game. J9 will win a small % of the time, and the pots generally won't be big enough to account for the times it loses.

Stick to the good hands, play position, and don't tilt. All you can do is put bets in the pot and let the law of averages sort itself out.

The most important factor is game selection. Andy Beal is probably a better poker player than me but there's a reason he's down $50-$100 million (depending on whose estimate you believe). Look for a game where at least 5 people are seeing flops most hands, people aren't raising and 3-betting preflop consistently (unless you determine they are doing this with bad hands). People are playing passively postflop (i.e. checking and calling opposed to betting/raising).

Also don't berate the bad players. Encourage them, you wanna keep them around.

Quote :

" wtf was that story all about"

That was me chasing the dream. I got tired of everyone asking why I quit so i recounted what my experiences were actually like. poker night in & night out is a grind. Living out of suitcases, the trunk of your car, and constant changing hotel rooms isn't the life of grandeur. I'd come homem from 1-2 week trips and honestly crash on my couch for 3 days without moving... granted i did get to travel all over the country for free.

Atlantic City is like the only place in the north east that you can't get laid easily without paying for it. That's just not really my style. Although that last trip the one that approached me was cute, i might have rolled the dice if J Turner wasnt asleep in the room. That woulda been some serious negative EV.

[Edited on September 20, 2004 at 8:44 PM. Reason : a]

9/20/2004 8:32:46 PM

Turner actually slept some during your trip? I am surprised he didn't stay up playing for 72 hours straight. He missed out on some precious playing time.

9/20/2004 8:56:51 PM

This sucks...
(me=squizearl)

***** Hand History for Game 969607556 *****
100/200 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (PL) (Tournament 5978682) - Mon Sep 20 20:44:57 EDT 2004
Table Table 11931 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: Squizearl (1465)
Seat 2: questor (930)
Seat 3: SamDaMan (2123)
Seat 8: KennyP (3482)
SamDaMan posts small blind (50)
KennyP posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Squizearl [ Ah, Jh ]
Squizearl calls (100)
questor calls (100)
SamDaMan calls (50)
KennyP raises (250) to 350
Squizearl calls (250)
questor folds.
SamDaMan folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, Ac, 7s ]
KennyP bets (500)
Squizearl calls (500)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ As ]
KennyP bets (900)
Squizearl calls (615)
Squizearl is all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ]
Creating Main Pot with $3130 with Squizearl
** Summary **
Main Pot: 3130 | Side Pot 1: 285
Board: [ 2h Ac 7s As 6h ]
Squizearl balance 0, lost 1465 [ Ah Jh ] [ three of a kind, aces -- Ah,Ac,As,Jh,7s ]
questor balance 830, lost 100 (folded)
SamDaMan balance 2023, lost 100 (folded)
KennyP balance 5147, bet 1750, collected 3415, net +1665 [ 7c 7d ] [ a full house, Sevens full of aces -- Ac,As,7c,7d,7s ]

9/20/2004 8:59:25 PM

another question i got is how long do you think this poker "phenomenon" is going to last? seems like it's just getting bigger and bigger, but do you guys think it'll ever pop?

9/20/2004 9:10:07 PM

of course..

maybe one more year

9/20/2004 9:12:06 PM

capn_crunch did you ever think he could have had AK or AQ?

9/20/2004 9:14:23 PM

Poker has been the most played game in the United States for decades now, it's not going anywhere.

As far as the "boom" its just become more publically acceptable. Went from a weekly game between friends, to a "mainstream" event.

I don't know how long it will remain popular as a "sporting event" but there's nothing pointing to it losing steam at this point. I see it being a mainstay for a pretty long time... part of it depends on how they continue to market it.

9/20/2004 9:18:20 PM

Yeah, I started playing poker back in high school. Just got into texas holdem because people started playing it around here. Have to adapt if necessary.

9/20/2004 9:20:48 PM

yeah, but what are the odds

that was the second real money tournament I have ever played in and I got 4th in both of them (just missed getting my money back)

9/20/2004 9:22:55 PM

well hopefully poker won't go anywhere... need some extra cash and poker is always my first option....

9/20/2004 9:28:16 PM

So, any tournaments/games in the 10-20 BUYIN range going on later this week?

Kind of looking for a once-a-week type of thing, since I'm not good enough to keep my bankroll up otherwise.

[Edited on September 20, 2004 at 10:49 PM. Reason : Ninja Edit... FAILED.]

[Edited on September 20, 2004 at 10:53 PM. Reason : 10-20 buyin, not 10-20 betting limits.]

9/20/2004 10:45:59 PM

turner has a 20 buy in about every night.

9/20/2004 11:05:24 PM

Are there any other games, though, besides Turner's?

9/20/2004 11:17:12 PM

i'd be game for a $10 buyin. I've got some chips but my place isn't conducive to hosting a game.

9/20/2004 11:37:56 PM

On campus, myself. Car died at the end of summer, so I'd need it to be within a mile or three of campus.

I'm a fatass, walking two or three miles to play some cards is worth it and I need the exersize anyway.

9/20/2004 11:41:27 PM

if you want to come to richmond, ive got a squad up for a game anytime...

or the vcu cheerleading team plays alot too.


which is nice.

9/20/2004 11:46:09 PM

Heh, that's a little further than I can walk. Maybe if I get another car.

Meanwhile, so as to pretend to stay on topic, the hand I busted out on in the prima $200 freeroll this morning:

I have 11000 chips, a decent amount for the point in the tournament we were at. (Down to about 300 people, average was around 9000.) I've been getting jack and shit for cards for about half an hour, though. Finally get a hand, pocket jacks, raise to 1500. Get smooth called by the BB and one other person. Flop comes AJ6, two diamonds. Big blind bets 3000, middle person goes away, I raise all in, he calls. He's got AJ. I do a little dance...

Rivers an Ace. Ouch. Good thing it was a freeroll or I'd have been really pissed.

9/20/2004 11:57:55 PM

just to let you know, fulltiltpoker.com is matching your deposit up to 600 (not sure on this #) but you have to play hands to get the money

9/21/2004 12:18:31 AM

Have to respect the stats...

9/21/2004 1:00:44 AM