rape is a serious issue, however, who always ends up getting fucked when its said and done ... well nevermind ... let me restate, who ends up getting in trouble when its said and done

many rape cases are due to a next morning regret, and as a result, the guy's life gets ruined.

nevertheless, there are many serious rape cases that need to be dealt with accordingly, but there are also many with respect to the 'girl who cried rape' when it was ultimatly a mutual agreement sharing equal responsibility

its becoming an abused term

10/19/2005 4:33:15 PM

The only justification to anyone saying that the girl was asking for it because of being drunk is if she was flirting, making out, insinuating she wanted sex. But we don't know that so there is absolutely no cause for casting blame on her. Sure it is irresponsible to get drunk enough to, say, pass out or puke, because that at the least endangers your personal health. But getting drunk isn't being irresponsible in a "putting yourself in a rape position" manner. If a girl's passed out in a bedroom there is no justification for some guy having sex with her. Even with a buzz your balance is thrown off and it would be easier for a guy to force himself onto you ("you" being a girl). So basically you people are saying that we shouldn't even drink enough to get a buzz.

10/19/2005 4:37:02 PM

"Why on earth does the alleged rapist get the "innocent until proven guilty" card."

The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.


Hey smath, why does is this guy assumed innocent and the girl assumed guilty. That's all I'm saying. Which is what I said in the second half of my post. Read the entire thing. ...

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 4:39 PM. Reason : du]

10/19/2005 4:38:02 PM

the girl isn't being charged with anything. people are merely speculating about different ways things could have happened.

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

10/19/2005 4:39:17 PM

this is why you have people looking out for you

10/19/2005 4:40:07 PM

Quote :

"The only justification to anyone saying that the girl was asking for it because of being drunk is if she was flirting, making out, insinuating she wanted sex"

there is not justification for saying a girl was asking to be raped
i mean if shes actually saying she wants to have sex, then its not rape.....

but just cause a girl flirts with a guy or makes out with him =/= she wants to have sex =/= shes asking to be raped

10/19/2005 4:40:20 PM

I was basically grouping all of that together = foreplay leading to sex

10/19/2005 4:47:10 PM

JUST BECAUSE I AM DRESSED IN THIS UNIFORM DOES NOT MEAN I AM A COP

10/19/2005 4:54:10 PM

JUST BECAUSE I SHOVE MY TOUNGE DOWN YOUR THROAT, GRAB YOUR CROTCH, AND LET YOU FEEL ME UP, THEN SUCK YOU OFF, DOES NOT MEAN THAT I WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU.

10/19/2005 4:57:18 PM

im rich, bitch

10/19/2005 5:01:38 PM

Quote :

"JUST BECAUSE I SHOVE MY TOUNGE DOWN YOUR THROAT, GRAB YOUR CROTCH, AND LET YOU FEEL ME UP, THEN SUCK YOU OFF, DOES NOT MEAN THAT I WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU."

wanting to have sex with you =/= going to have sex with you

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 5:04 PM. Reason : but then, im very clear when there is a distinction between the two]

10/19/2005 5:03:50 PM

and you missed the point, again

10/19/2005 5:05:15 PM

no, i got the point
sometimes i just choose to ignore what people meant and take things literally

10/19/2005 5:05:57 PM

the judge went to college, hes going to be listening to what she says.

"So, you were at a party thrown by a Fraternity, correct?"

"yes"

"Were you drinking?"

"Yes."

"So, tell me what happened excatly, if you could"

(Sniffles)"Well, i went upstairs with him into a bedroom.."

"You willingly went upstairs, into a bedroom with this man?"

"Erm...well, i was drunk"

"you were drunk."

"yea."

"Ok, continue"

"Well" (tears) "I dont know i was just raped and like...(mother cries)...it all happened so fast"

"But, you were raped werent you"

"Yes."

"What happened after this occured?"

"Well, i went downstairs and was with my friends for a little while longer"

"Did you continue drinking?"

"no.."

DEFENSE: Objection your honor, we have witnesses saying otherwise.

"Sustained, Your under oath young lady, did you continue drinking?"

"Just a beer."

"Ok blah blah blah"

Etc etc. The setting, to me, makes her case seem a little devoid of substance.

But if he actually raped her, while her yelling and screaming no, no, no sex for me plz! Then by god fuck his ass!


and i realize thats not how a case like this would transpire, so spare the legality criticism.
[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 5:16 PM. Reason : mewo!]

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 5:17 PM. Reason : Mix!]

10/19/2005 5:15:58 PM

sweet ive been quoted twice




carry on

10/19/2005 5:29:07 PM

just becuase im dressed this way

10/19/2005 5:33:43 PM

well, if it's the case that they had sex and she just regrets it, then he should charge her with second degree sexual offense as well (assuming he was drunk also).

Quote :

"14-27.5. Second-degree sexual offense. (a)A person is guilty of a sexual offense in the second degree if the person engages in a sexual act with another person: (1) By force and against the will of the other person; or (2) Who is mentally disabled, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless, and the person performing the act knows or should reasonably know that the other person is mentally disabled, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless."

10/19/2005 5:36:49 PM

1) I would think that the majority of rape cases are not based on regret, but the regret scenario would not be brought up if it did not happen at least occasionally.

2) Obviously, no one "deserves" to be raped. It is, however, each person's responsibility to ensure his/her own safety. Therefore, women are better off trying to stay out of potentially dangerous situations than they are saying, "I shouldn't have to worry how I act/dress/whether I get drunk or not."

10/19/2005 6:10:58 PM

Quote :

"Yes it is wrong to accuse if nothing happened and ruin someone's life but otherwise let the court decide."

thats the problem. no matter what the court decides, the man is screwed.

Quote :

"It is not fair that women are required to make sure that they do not dress to intice, make sure that they do not drink and avoid situations that may put them in danger because of men when in reality MEN should think before they act."

this would be a completely valid argument if the same applied to men accusing women of rape. Unfortunately, the standard doesn't apply. A sobbing woman on the witness stand is far more damning than a sobbing man. While I'm not going to do down the "OMFG SHE HAD IT COMING!!!" route, I do have to say that if you know guys have trouble keeping it zipped and you know guys are likely to take advantage of women, then why would you even begin to put yourself in that situation? Wearing skimpy clothes at a party increases your chances of being noticed / sought by anyone for sex. Women have to understand this. So, why go to a party and increase your chances for being sought for sex by someone you deon't want to have sex with and then decrease your ability to reason / fight back? That doesn't excuse the guy from actual "rape" (i draw a distinction between a guy getting a girl drunk and having sex with her(rape) and a guy and a girl who were already flirting before one of them started drinking and them then having sex (not rape)), but lets not be foolish here... If you know you are more vulnerable than a potential attacker, and you know that skimpy clothes make you stand out more to an attacker, and you go to a venue where there are likely going to be attackers... come on!

Quote :

"Sexual assault victims always have their names withheld by the press to protect their privacy. It takes a LOT of courage to come forward and say this happened to them."

for someone who was truly raped? hell yes it does. for someone who just doesn't want to admit that they had sex with someone? it doesn't take as much courage to do so. and thats the problem. The "victim" is assumed as an actual victim here, whether she truly is or not. Her privacy is preserved, but the "attacker" is assumed guilty and his name is plastered all over the news. I'd like to see a scenario where the press can either reveal both the defendent and the accuser's names or neither at all.

also, I fail to see how this is a "rape scandal" as the news article describes it...

Quote :

"i think what lil pig is saying is that people are saying that this guy is innocent until proven guilty but the same people that are saying that are saying she is guilty of falsely accusing him/regretting afterward/etc."

maybe because that goes hand in hand with assuming innocence. you know, here is a reason that he might be innocent... No one is saying that she really is just regretting sex. Rather, they are throwing that out there as a possible explanation. And, given that we don't know her name, we aren't really saying anything bad about her, are we? As far as we are concerned, she is just some random nameless broad...

Quote :

"Well, maybe guys will learn not to have sex with drunk/buzzed/tanked/lit girls at parties. Seriously. Think about some consequences before you loose blood flow to your head."

Ironically, that was Takimoto's point to women. Think about some consequences before you decrease your cognitive abilities...

Quote :

"but if someone is still learning their limits or maybe just messes up and gets drunk or maybe gets wasted every day its ok to rape them got it... thanks for clearing that up for me"

there's the problem. you are talking about one kind of rape (the "rape" that occurs when alcohol is present and willingly accepted by the victim) and conferring on it the notion of other kinds of rape (gunpoint, drugging the girl's drink...). There really should be two mutually exclusive categories with entirely different names for these things, with one of the categories having a far less severe punishment than the other...

Quote :

"but just cause a girl flirts with a guy or makes out with him =/= she wants to have sex =/= shes asking to be raped"

see my argument above. if you are at a party and are giving a guy head, you better damn well have made it clear that thats ALL he's getting, otherwise you are just being stupid. you aren't really "asking to be raped" in the sense that you are inviting some random guy to jump you with a gun, but you are "asking to be raped" in the sense that you are putting yourself in a situation that is likely to lead to sex. If you know you are doing something that can likely lead to sex, or even be construed by the other person as leading to sex, then you sure as hell better make it clear before hand what your intentions are.

10/19/2005 6:14:24 PM

only the two parties involved know what happened and as far as anyone is concerned the girl is always the one that is going to be listened to whether shes lying or not

10/19/2005 6:45:33 PM

^^

I really hate the women shouldnt wear skimpy clothing arguement.

Maybe you have never had the urge to look attractive and appeal to others because you are ugly

but it doesnt mean women shouldnt have the liberty to.

Im enticed to steal a projecter everytime I walk into a home theatre convention, it doesnt mean if i

do I am any less to blame.

Girls should feel safe whether in a ski suit or a tank top and skirt, its stupid men who fuck it all up

for everyone.

God damn it guys.

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 7:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2005 7:10:51 PM

Quote :

"Political Views: Conservative"

10/19/2005 7:52:40 PM

Quote :

" but it doesnt mean women shouldnt have the liberty to."

you are right. they can still wear it. but they ought to know that by doing so they increase their risk of being raped. its that simple. Just like if I go outside with a big ass rolex and flashy jewelry and expensive shoes and an iPod hanging off my belt, I am putting myself more at risk of being mugged than if I just walked out in plain shoes and a cheap timex watch and no jewelry and a discretely hidden iPod. I can still do the former if I want to, but I do increase the chances that something bad will befall me.

10/19/2005 7:53:27 PM

its not like girls only get raped when theyre wearing revealing clothing

the problem isnt with what the girls are wearing (ill make exceptions for see through shirts and skirts that dont cover your ass, and the like -- those kinda things DEF send a certain kind of message)
its that, albeit not all but some, men use how a girls dressed as an excuse for their behavior. its a way of shucking responsibility and blame. oh its not my fault, why would she have dressed like that if she DIDNT want it? well, maybe she did want it but just not from you, or maybe thats just how she felt like dressing that night.

its not like when guys dress in tight jeans and shirts that girls think, oh he MUST wanna put out with ME if hes dressed like that

im not saying that some outfits and some behaviors dont confuse guys in some situations, but saying a girl was asking for it or wanted it just her clothes are a little tight or shes showing a little skin... thats just an excuse

10/19/2005 8:08:34 PM

Quote :

"i bet this is an example of two people hooking up at a party, BOTH getting drunk, fucking, and then the girl wakes up the next morning, regrets it, and screams rape."

smath wins this thread because its probably true

10/19/2005 8:09:58 PM

^no thats the whole point, without knowing any more about this situation

its just as likely, if not more likely, that she actaully was taken advantage of and/or raped than shes just saying she was raped cause she regrets it

10/19/2005 8:11:16 PM

ok honestly its not that hard to not fuck someone, no matter if you are drunk or what

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 8:20 PM. Reason : its not hard to abstain]

10/19/2005 8:13:21 PM

Quote :

"does it bother anyone else even remotely that this guy is charged with the same crime twice?"

normally I would agree with you, but that's the law. The law was written so that a person could be charged twice. I can't fault the DA - if you have a problem, lobby to change the law.

10/19/2005 8:35:41 PM

also: I've been piss drunk before and still had the mental capacity to make rational decisions about something as important as sex.

unless she was unconscious or was indeed forced, there's no way she can honestly argue her way out of her consent to sex. She can sure do it legally, but not honestly.

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 8:38 PM. Reason : s]

10/19/2005 8:37:54 PM

Quote :

"The only justification to anyone saying that the girl was asking for it because of being drunk is if she was flirting, making out, insinuating she wanted sex"

what the fucking shit?
thats not justification at all. i dont care what kind foreplay is going on, you dont have consent until you have it

10/19/2005 8:39:03 PM

Quote :

"ok honestly its not that hard to not fuck someone, no matter if you are drunk or what [Edited on October 19, 2005 at 8:20 PM. Reason : its not hard to abstain]"

thats what im saying

the guys who say shit like "oh she was asking for it" are using that as an excuse for a behavior that is unexcusable

[Edited on October 19, 2005 at 9:02 PM. Reason : ^seriously - and what really worries me is that was said by a GIRL]

10/19/2005 9:01:43 PM

The thing that REALLY pisses me off about the whole situation is that the guy's name was the only one put out. The press should either be given both or neither.

Yes, the guy's name is out because he is being charged with a crime. But what if it IS just the "morning after regret?" The girl's name will NEVER be in the press (see Kobe Bryant case) for fear that she will be bashed.

We need male rights' activist.

I still stand firm that white males are the most oppressed people on the planet.

10/19/2005 9:47:08 PM

white males are the most oppressed. hahaha.

10/19/2005 9:53:45 PM

Quote :

"Its so that they are not harrassed by assholes like the people posting on this board. Sexual assault victims always have their names withheld by the press to protect their privacy. It takes a LOT of courage to come forward and say this happened to them."

It also emboldens a lot of people to make false accusations. I understand its good intentions, but it is misguided good intentions.

10/19/2005 9:57:34 PM

I'm willing to bet that its not beyond TWW's capabilities to post the full name and address of the girl in question

10/19/2005 10:06:24 PM

Quote :

"its not like girls only get raped when theyre wearing revealing clothing the problem isnt with what the girls are wearing (ill make exceptions for see through shirts and skirts that dont cover your ass, and the like -- those kinda things DEF send a certain kind of message) its that, albeit not all but some, men use how a girls dressed as an excuse for their behavior. its a way of shucking responsibility and blame. oh its not my fault, why would she have dressed like that if she DIDNT want it? well, maybe she did want it but just not from you, or maybe thats just how she felt like dressing that night."

you don't get it, do you?

1) there are at least two different kinds of rape. you are using the more vicious kind as your definition, which is clearly NOT what happened here, if a "rape" even occurred.
2) you have the right to wear skimpy outfit, but you must also accept that FACT that it will draw more attention to you. period. end of discussion. it doesn't excuse rape, of either kind, but you can't act like the girl is in a bubble, either. fact is, alcohol + skimpy clothing + college party = increased risk of rape. deal with it. if you want to decrease your risk of being raped, then you don't wear revealing clothing, you don't get drunk around a bunch of people that you barely know, and you don't do those two things together at a college party.

Quote :

"its just as likely, if not more likely, that she actaully was taken advantage of and/or raped than shes just saying she was raped cause she regrets it"

not really. you are assuming she was raped. we are assuming she wasn't. which one is "correct" assumption? well, the Constitution says to assume innocence. Especially when there are other "explanations." This appears to be the typical way that "rape" is used, but by no means is it really "rape." More than likely, its two people made bad decisions. But, our laws are set up to fuck over only one of them.

Quote :

"also: I've been piss drunk before and still had the mental capacity to make rational decisions about something as important as sex."

great. thats you, not everyone.

Quote :

"thats not justification at all"

it might not be legal justification, but it sure as hell is a tease. That, my dear friend, is what we call being a cock tease. Those bitches deserve EVERY bit of what they get, because they TRULY are asking for it. You go out and rile someone up... you deserve what you get.

Quote :

"the guys who say shit like "oh she was asking for it" are using that as an excuse for a behavior that is unexcusable"

and you are using that excuse to shirk any and all responsibility that the girl has for her own well-being.

10/19/2005 10:19:03 PM

Quote :

"Those bitches deserve EVERY bit of what they get, because they TRULY are asking for it. You go out and rile someone up... you deserve what you get."

i just hope that one day you say that to my sister

and then spend the night in the hospital having your testicles pulled back out of your stomach

it amazes me people think like this

i mean seriously

10/19/2005 10:23:40 PM

was your sister a cock tease? if so, then she had it coming...

10/19/2005 10:47:24 PM

Does anybody have any updates on the story?

TWW needs to have a sticky for "it is or is not rape if..." thread. They are as frequent (and pointless) as salisburyboy's threads.

10/19/2005 10:49:33 PM

Quote :

"it might not be legal justification, but it sure as hell is a tease. That, my dear friend, is what we call being a cock tease. Those bitches deserve EVERY bit of what they get, because they TRULY are asking for it. You go out and rile someone up... you deserve what you get."

i hope you only have daughters

yes being a tease can send the wrong messages, but no one should be forced to endure being raped or sexually assaulted

now time for the random quote that popped into my head while reading this shit: "One who forced another was beneath contempt. One who needed to was despised"

10/19/2005 11:07:26 PM

Quote :

"if she was intoxicated, its always rape. if your drunk you cant give consent."

so I guess about 85% of college sex is rape

10/19/2005 11:39:45 PM

Quote :

"i hope you only have daughters"

i do too. that way I can teach them NOT to be cockteases.

Quote :

"but no one should be forced to endure being raped or sexually assaulted"

thats great. but being raped at gunpoint is substantially different than being "raped" because you were too fucking stupid to think before you got drunk around a bunch of people you don't even know. I aint gonna go out into the middle of a ghetto and yell "I HATE NIGGERS!!!" and not expect to get shot. Similarly, don't wear slutty outfits, flirt and tease at a college party, get drunk at said party around a bunch of people you don't know and be surprised when you wake up the next morning with a sore ass. [/thread]

10/20/2005 12:07:29 AM

Wearing showy clothes or being intoxicated seems to me comparable driving without a seatbelt. While it might be a little irresponsible on a practical level to do something like that during bad driving conditions, if you blame someone on a moral level for having another car wreck into them just because they weren't wearing a seat belt then you aren't very bright.

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:18 AM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 12:18:36 AM

Quote :

"get drunk at said party around a bunch of people you don't know"

its not the people you dont know that are the biggest problem in the kind of situation youre describing:

Quote :

"Acquaintance rape is much more prevalent than stranger rape. In a study published by the Department of Justice, 82% of the victims were raped by someone they knew (acquaintance/friend, intimate, relative) and 18% were raped by a stranger. From a report on Violence Against Women based on data from the National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1995"

http://www.911rape.org/

try again


^yea seriously... like ultimately it wouldnt be not wearing a seat belt that killed you, it would be the other car hitting you -- a seat belt might have reduced your injuries, but it wouldnt have prevented the accident.

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 12:24 AM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 12:23:31 AM

christ, people... no matter what she's wearing (or not wearing) it doesn't make it right, excuseable, understandable, or even explainable. for fucks sake, the seatbelt argument is the same thing. regardless of whether or not they're wearing a seatbelt, or wearing "slutty" clothing, they're human beings, man. what the fuck y'all, seriously.

10/20/2005 12:38:16 AM

^

Agreed.


In related news aaronburro is still a fag

10/20/2005 12:44:35 AM

instead of getting people to stop drinking why not stop letting guys think like the fucktards in this thread

10/20/2005 1:04:32 AM

Quote :

"Rape isn't just a "bad experience" and it probably has the potential to ruin someone's life as well."

I'll probably catch shit for this, but most of the psychological trauma rape victims suffer is created by society. As bad as sexual assault is, it only causes depression, withdrawal, or whatever when culture says it should.

10/20/2005 1:07:55 AM

^I agree with you.

10/20/2005 1:30:20 AM

if this is a false charge, dude could have avoided it by obeying this simple rule:

10/20/2005 1:59:48 AM