Quote :

"It will take forever to get up and down hillsborough street."

that's the point. Hillsborough street is a shitty avenue for getting somewhere. It already takes forever to get down it. Look, I live just past the Hillsborough/Morgan split across the street from St. Mary's school. Every day for work I have to be in Cary at the other end of Hillsborough street. But do I take the straight shot up H-borough street? No! That takes for-freakin-ever! I turn down Ashe street and take Western east until it merges with Hillsborough in Cary. Take Western to get to and from downtown is what everyone should do, Western is designed for that kind of traffic while Hillsborough is not. Also, if I'm coming from the other direction, I take Wade down to St. Mary's street and use that to get to my apartment. People may think Hillsborough is faster, but it's not. Too many stop lights, people turning left across traffic, parked cars after 6:30, students darting out into traffic...it's not useful for driving on unless you're actually going to a place located on Hillsborough street.

The roundabouts and median will only encourage others to take the same approach I have, which is what's best for traffic flow in Raleigh and what's best for NCSU. Think about UNC, people don't take Franklin street when they need to get somewhere fast. They take 54 (I think?) around the back of UNC and come in that way. If we ever want a decent college stip on Hillsborough street, then it needs to be a pedestrian friendly street, not a freeway to downtown. We already learned from the failed Fayettville Street Mall experiment that cutting off all traffic is a horrible idea, but limiting it is not.

[Edited on November 14, 2006 at 10:14 AM. Reason : page 4 says build it and they will come]

11/14/2006 10:13:26 AM

More landscape, more landscape, more landscape. Less convenience stores. More sidewalk.

Less homeless people?

11/14/2006 10:14:47 AM

More homeless people. Dorthea Dix is closing and they're kicking the mentally unstable people out on the street. But that's a whole different issue...

11/14/2006 10:21:07 AM

^^ It has to close so we can put freshman in there.

11/14/2006 10:22:19 AM

Not going to happen per City of Raleigh

http://www.newsobserver.com/243/story/531989.html

Quote :

"RALEIGH - The city's seven-year flirtation with English-style roundabouts, meant to bring charm and order to Hillsborough Street, appears finished. Mayor Charles Meeker spent the week heavily lobbying the two council members still wavering on the $3.7 million project. But Philip Isley and Joyce Kekas won't budge without a major overhaul, leaving the project without the five council votes it needs for approval. Isley and Kekas fear roundabouts will choke Hillsborough Street traffic to a two-lane crawl and rob businesses of much-needed daytime parking. Both agree the street is suffering through a decades-long slump but consider traffic circles the wrong remedy. Isley likened the plan to "giving a shot of penicillin to a person with diabetes." Kekas said the pressure to vote yes hasn't changed her belief that roundabouts would turn Hillsborough Street into a new version of Fayetteville Street Mall. "I am being pushed into a corner, and I'm coming out fighting," she said. "I absolutely believe this is the wrong thing to do." The city spent about $260,000 for engineers to draw up the plans. The money was to come mostly from $3 million in road bonds that voters approved for Hillsborough Street in 2005. But if the project tanks, it will go unspent for now. "We could still use that money for any other Hillsborough Street project we want," Isley said. "We've got 2000 park bond money we haven't spent yet." Neighbors reacted to the news with sadness. Many have sat through meetings, examined drawings and quizzed engineers since 1999. "The council hasn't heard the same arguments that we've heard," said Paul Blankinship of the University Park homeowners association. "These weren't touchy-feely things. These are hard, cold statistics from engineers. It's disappointing." The roundabout idea has percolated on Hillsborough Street since 1999, consuming thousands of hours of meetings and involving reams of statistics. The street averages about 19,000 cars a day, making it potentially dangerous for N.C. State University students dodging cars and Wolfline buses. Meanwhile, business there continues to droop. Roundabouts, many felt, would slow traffic but still keep it moving. The plan called for Hillsborough Street to get wider sidewalks, a seven-foot-wide median and only two lanes instead of four. By the time it came to the council late last year, the plan called for eight roundabouts eventually, starting at Horne Street (near Marrakesh Cafe) and Logan Court (near Bruegger's Bagels.) Meeker has called the Hillsborough Street project a natural step after the opening of Fayetteville Street to cars last summer and the successful spruce-up in Glenwood South. To sway Isley, he enlisted former Councilman Kieran Shanahan, a Republican and attorney like Isley who backed the project while on the council. But Isley called roundabouts a "drastic" fix. Glenwood South worked, he said, because there was so much private investment. "I don't think it's the right plan," he said. "If anyone pushed a button to cross the street, it stops traffic." N.C. State officials could not be reached for comment Friday. Kay Leager, a neighbor and officer in the homeowners' association, also was saddened. "It deserves to be a nice street," she said. "Our neighborhood is right behind it, and it is a very walkable neighborhood. We felt more people could come and enjoy it." But Councilwoman Jessie Taliaferro said she could not find another example of a roundabout in a place with on-street parking. She believes they won't work in a compact, urban spot and that Raleigh can't afford to lose a major route to slow traffic. "We have to have Hillsborough Street as a major thoroughfare," she said. "It has to move people in and out of downtown." "

[Edited on January 16, 2007 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2007 3:27:13 PM

Way to fuck NC State in the ass, Raleigh

Seriously, what the hell? Voters approved money for this!! This is what the people want!!

Damnit damnit damnit damnit

1/16/2007 3:37:00 PM

Don't listen to the Civil Engineers, they surely haven't studied more about this kind of thing than you have. As a politician, you're obviously in a better position to talk about traffic flow. I hate the fucking "we haven't done it in Raleigh before, therefore it won't work" arguement.

1/16/2007 3:43:06 PM

Quote :

"Isley and Kekas fear roundabouts will choke Hillsborough Street traffic to a two-lane crawl and rob businesses of much-needed daytime parking."

Didn't the plans actually add more parking... at the expense of a lane? And i'd think slowing down traffic would be a good thing. I never understood why the section of hillsborough st near campus wasn't 25mph. EVERY other college i've been to has a 20-25 mph limit on its main drag.

1/16/2007 3:47:07 PM

Quote :

"Isley and Kekas fear roundabouts will choke Hillsborough Street traffic to a two-lane crawl and rob businesses of much-needed daytime parking."

1) crawl? no. slow it down? that's the whole fucking point
2) didn't at least one set of plans include daytime parking along hillsb st, which is why it was going to be two lanes?

1/16/2007 3:47:56 PM

I'm e-mailing those two idiots right now

Philip Isley, Council Member
pisley@boyceisley.com

Joyce Kekas
Joyce.Kekas@ci.raleigh.nc.us

[Edited on January 16, 2007 at 3:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/16/2007 3:49:13 PM

Thank you - I was about to google that!

1/16/2007 3:51:36 PM

This is the wrong fucking move. Roundabouts are needed. Its a road that people need to walk accross and these politicians have no fucking clue. Observe this quote:

Quote :

""I don't think it's the right plan," he said. "If anyone pushed a button to cross the street, it stops traffic.""

As opposed to right now where the pedestrian pushes the button and traffic on Hillsborough doesn't stop ??? I can't believe they wouldn't approve this and they almost approved the perpetual monstrocity of a light show downtown.

1/16/2007 3:52:39 PM

Quote :

"Dear Council Members, I am upset to hear of your recent vote against the well researched plan to revive Hillsborough Street. I am a resident of Hillsbrough Street, my apartment overlooks St. Mary's School and I use Hillsborough street every day. When you talk of the people who need to use this street to get downtown, that describes me. I was not the least bit concerned about the effect of roundabouts on traffic flow. Instead, I had hoped they would push traffic on to Wade Avenue and Western Boulevard , which is what those roads are designed for. I had hoped to see an area with great historical significance to our city be restored to it's former glory. I had hoped for a pedestrian-friendly economically-viable corridor that showcases one of our city's great assets, NC State University. Council members, I am upset by your hubris. When the people of Raleigh, the civil engineers, Mayor Meeker, NCSU and various grassroots organizations all call for the same plan, you have the arrogance to say "I know better than you". That simply is not acceptable. We are experiencing the same kind of problem with our President today, who suffers from the lowest approval ratings of any president. I imagine a similar future awaits you if this is how you choose to govern our city. "

1/16/2007 4:04:39 PM

What I've written. I'm about to proofread.

Quote :

"Mr Isley and Ms Kekas, I'm a junior at NC State. I just found out that you all had some concerns that kept you from voting in favor of the Hillsborough Street Revilatization plan. Just to make you aware of where the information I'm reacting to is coming from, it's here: http://www.newsobserver.com/243/story/531989.html It's a little difficult to keep this email from attacking your intelligence. I'd like to think you might read it, instead of a secretary. Per the N&O article, your two main concerns are that traffic on Hillsborough Street will be significantly slowed, and that daytime parking will be an issue. Hillsborough Street needs to be slowed down. It's not a thoroughfare, so slowing it down is a good thing. You take Hillsborough Street to go somewhere on or near Hillsborough Street - not to get home from work or classes (I say that last part as a commuting student from Garner - but somehow, I am still a resident of Raleigh, as are my parents - active voters). The plans for Hillsborough Street actually increase daytime parking. Right now, parking during the day is available on one side of Hillsborough Street. The new plans allow for parking on both sides. We need this. I'm a frequent and very loyal patron of Global Village, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone somewhere else during normal business hours, or not gotten caffeine at all, because of parking on Hillsborough Street. Yes, I'd allow an extra 30 minutes before classes to go to a Hillsborough Street establishment if I didn't have to spend that time looking for somewhere to park. There will be private investment again on Hillsborough Street if potential business owners feel they'll get customers. Right now, they don't. That's part of why I'm so ardent about supporting Global Village, The Design Gallery Salon, Western Lanes, Bruegger's Bagels, and Mitch's - because if we students don't help the business owners fight the effects of City Council's decisions, there will be no one. Because of decisions like this, parents of students, other people associated with the University (like the professors that I grew up next to), and your average Raleigh resident won't come to Hillsborough Street to spend money. Please reconsider your vote. Thank you, [name]"

1/16/2007 4:06:06 PM

They would improve things 50% by making Hillsborough Street no left turn unless there's a left turn lane and a turn signal.

1/16/2007 4:07:50 PM

^That is the purpose of a roundabout. . . except instead of stopping all straight-through traffic when it comes time to make a left, it stops NO ONE. Everyone has to go into the same circle and you get out where you want.

I wonder if they would approve the project if they attached a large light mural to it.

1/16/2007 4:11:08 PM

They have "Fayettville Mall Syndrome".

They're too afraid that this plan will backfire, despite what experts and the people want.

1/16/2007 4:13:33 PM

I feel a petition coming on.... someone in SG should get something started.

I wonder if those two people even use hillsborough to get to or from work. I NEVER use hillsborough to get downtown where I work (nat science museum). There are plenty of other options.

I would LOVE to see an awesome business in the old daryl's building. It makes me sad to see it empty every time I drive by there.

1/16/2007 4:15:37 PM

Quote :

"Isley and Kekas fear roundabouts will choke Hillsborough Street traffic to a two-lane crawl and rob businesses of much-needed daytime parking."

Hillsborough Street is already traffic-choked during the day, yet is still pedestrian-unfriendly. It will not be a viable arterial to downtown with or without roundabouts. That's what Wade and Western are for. The council should concern themselves with keeping traffic flowing smoothly, and making it pedestrian-friendly.

1/16/2007 4:20:59 PM

E-mailed both of them.

This is just one more instance of how too many people in Raleigh, when dealing with issued that directly affect the university, think of every other pov first.

1/16/2007 4:22:35 PM

Quote :

"But Isley called roundabouts a "drastic" fix. Glenwood South worked, he said, because there was so much private investment."

And because there is plenty of street parking on Glenwood, and on side streets, and a freaking PARKING DECK.

Is there actually any outcry among the public against the plan?

Or are these council members just serious idiots?

1/16/2007 10:22:11 PM

my post in the chit-chat thread:

Quote :

""We have to have Hillsborough Street as a major thoroughfare," she said. "It has to move people in and out of downtown.""

this bitch didn't even read the Kimley-Horn design report.

one of the MAJOR INTENTIONS of putting in roundabouts was to drop the speed on hboro and decrease the volume the road could handle. the street as we know it wasn't designed to become a major thoroughfare for commuters into downtown.

this would eventually force thru-traffic OFF HBORO and ONTO WADE AND WESTERN, two major arteries much more capable of handling a substantial volume of through traffic. this is what these two roads were fucking designed for. my guess is hboro is just the quickest way home for these dumbasses and they didn't want road construction to slow them down.

edit: I'm not joking when I say that lady didn't read the design report. Slowing down traffic & decreasing volume was the main point stressed in the K-H study. aesthetics and creating a pleasing atmosphere were second.

shit like this angers me. why on earth would these people decide they know more about traffic flow and roadway design than ENGINEERS who not only studied this in school but have been practicing for YEARS.

and as someone said in the other thread, they'll probably vote to donate the money to chapel hill to pave part of franklin street in gold bricks.

[Edited on January 16, 2007 at 10:59 PM. Reason : edit]

1/16/2007 10:55:22 PM

^ AMEN

1/17/2007 8:04:18 AM

Has anyone considered writing a letter to the N&O?

1/17/2007 9:31:52 AM

no...but that sounds like a good idea.

the only letter to the editor that i've ever written has been published...maybe a public 'kekas doesn't bother to read' in the paper will reach the council members better than an email ( ) will.

[Edited on January 17, 2007 at 9:40 AM. Reason : I'll do it tongiht at work]

1/17/2007 9:39:50 AM

the technician says that SG is going to be in the brickyard tomorrow and friday raising awareness about this issue and is going to have a petition to sign. Somebody stole my idea! haha good for them though. Lets all make sure we get out there and sign it!!!

"Kekas Can't Read"

great headline IMO.

but in all seriousness, its odd that they completely ignored the whole CONCEPT of the updates & renovations. I wonder if those two specifically enjoy clogging up hillsborough on their commute to downtown and are just bitter. That would be extremely selfish.

1/17/2007 11:25:02 AM

i keep getting angrier and angrier over this, this is so retarded. its no so much that they are against the idea, its that they obviously didnt read the report at all and missed the entire concept of it.

1/17/2007 11:38:11 AM

Quote :

"The money was to come mostly from $3 million in road bonds that voters approved for Hillsborough Street in 2005. But if the project tanks, it will go unspent for now. "We could still use that money for any other Hillsborough Street project we want," Isley said. "We've got 2000 park bond money we haven't spent yet.""

If the project tanks the money should go back to where it came from... the taxpayers. People didn't vote to spend money on "other Hillsborough Street project[s] we want."

1/17/2007 11:46:44 AM

the fact that the bond passed should be a sign that people want this, being opposed to this just doesnt make sense

1/17/2007 11:48:37 AM

Now if someone would just up and decide that they didn't want to follow through with the 900 million school bond, pocket the money, and spend it how they saw fit.

1/17/2007 11:53:48 AM

"Kekas Can't Read, Isley Is Ignorant"

There's the title for my letter to the N&O

1/17/2007 11:57:17 AM

Hello,

I am an NC State student and Raleigh resident for five years now and have hoped to stay longer. However the recent news that years of research and millions of dollars voted on by the PEOPLE of this county and city for revitalizing Hillsborough street will never see fruition saddens and makes me reconsider the ability of the leadership of this city. The idea that a bond approved by voters for this project will be underused if used ever on the street makes me think why do I vote at all. Can the 900 million dollar school bond be canceled and moved to another issue. You argue it will slow traffic and clog the road. The idea was to slow down traffic and force people to other less pedestrian roads. Have you ever seen a student hit by a car or in an accident because of the roads poor design, What about sitting in traffic as a car turns left where no left turn lane exists, these would be remedied by the roundabouts. So much promise wasted on closed minds. Decisions which which went against the mayor's, and the citizen's and the people who live on hills borough street the student's wishes. After six years of "experts" telling you this will work, I assume you will never listen to me, a student. However know that it is you holding back an area of our community with so much promise. The people who elected you voted for this, the city needed this, but now the voters have been overlooked once again. People wonder why the voters have become disillusioned. YOU are that reason.

Please reconsider your vote
Sincerely,

1/18/2007 9:44:30 AM

i encourage all to write to them it has worked in the past, this had so much promise

1/18/2007 9:45:22 AM

yall do realize that eventually hillsborough st. will be revitalized right?

its one of those things that WILL eventually happen

1/18/2007 9:51:46 AM

are they going to make the evening parking on the ncsu side all-day? because i think that would help a lot of things by itself.

[Edited on January 18, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

1/18/2007 9:51:57 AM

^^do you think it will happen while anyone who is a student now is still a student?

1/18/2007 9:54:52 AM

mrpeter,

you might want to proofread your letter since you are saying that you are an nc state student

sincerely,

1/18/2007 11:01:44 AM

He might also want to learn what a paragraph is. I didn't get past "Hello" in that letter.

1/18/2007 12:07:17 PM

Despite the cover of the book, I think his message is right, in so far as it is promoting the revitalization of Hillsborough street. Though I'm not sure the entire budget for it should come from education. If Tdub could be used to start a letter writing campaign to keep this idea in the thoughts of our leaders, then it can perhaps do something good for our school.

1/18/2007 12:33:35 PM

I hope they wait until after I graduate to start. If the Fayetteville street revitalization is any guide to city projects, it definitely won't finish until after I graduate so I'd rather not deal with the construction noise and dust and ugliness.

I don't think Hillsborough Street traffic is a big problem. It's not like it's that hard to press the button and wait a minute or two for the walk signal. If someone isn't smart enough to figure out how crosswalks work, NCSU shouldn't have let them in.

1/18/2007 1:06:26 PM

it's not just about pedestrians. driving down the street just sucks ass; the lanes are narrow, there's shit for parking and no left turn lanes in some places.

1/18/2007 1:21:15 PM

Quote :

"driving down the street just sucks ass"

The plan is intended to make driving down the street worse. On purpose.

1/18/2007 1:32:35 PM

^Actually it will be easier so long as you're trying to go to a place on Hillsborough street and not making it a highway to downtown. The roundabouts will eliminate the problem of left-turners blocking traffic. Also, roundabouts will feature divider islands at each entrance to the circle, which means pedestrians only have to cross one lane of traffic at a time, not three. So it's better for drivers and better for pedestrians. The only people it's not good for are people using H-boro to get downtown, and those people should be using Wade and Western.

1/18/2007 1:45:55 PM

Western is the "highway to downtown"

1/18/2007 1:46:42 PM

^that and capital

1/18/2007 2:02:25 PM

And South Saunders...and New Bern....

There's plenty of ways to get downtown, but it appears that everyone coming in from Cary/Apex/Holly Springs only knows how to get off at the Hillsborough street exit and take it all the way to the capital building...

1/18/2007 2:04:01 PM

you guys should put up signso that ppl from cary come downtown via S.Saunders street. just imagining cary ppl getting lost on S. Saunders brings a smile to my face

1/18/2007 6:16:38 PM

well they could also take western and wade, both are more capable of handling commuter traffic than hillsborough

1/18/2007 6:23:15 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "driving down the street just sucks ass" The plan is intended to make driving down the street worse. On purpose."

but it also sucks ass for everyone else. right now we're in a lose-lose situation, which is why something needs to be done.

1/18/2007 6:26:19 PM

i remember in 1995 when i got here and 'hillsborough street revitalization was right around the corner'

so don't worry, ye who don't want to be 'inconvenienced by construction'

your children will graduate from college before they start fixing the road

1/18/2007 6:45:27 PM