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9/25/2006 6:31:52 PM

So, I'm bumping this because I'm going to ask a specific question that I felt didnt need a new thread [slightly off-topic]

I'm seriously considering getting a baby Glock, but I havent made my mind up as to which model - 26, 27 or 33. Has anyone shot a 27 or 33...how is the recoil? It's hard to decide whether to go with the 9mm, having 1 more shell per magazine and mild recoil.... or going for the mini-cannon and just suck it up regarding the recoil. I've got a Sigpro in .357, so I can relate to the amount of recoil from that caliber in a full-frame gun.

opinions?

10/20/2006 6:03:54 PM

just picked up a NIB HK P7M13 woot! woot!

10/20/2006 9:29:08 PM

Who knows anything about Para Ordinance? I've got a 229 .40 S&W and I can't decide if I want to keep it / switch to the PO. The reason I'm leaning towards them is the d/s .45 magazine and the either SAO or DAO option. I love the Sig, but I know enough to know that when the adrenaline gets pumping the switch from DA to SA can be a bit disconcerting. I haven't made a decision yet, just pondering.

Also, looking for a small wheelgun that I could carry in the pocket of my shorts on a really hot day where I can't conceal anything bigger . . . recommendations? Price is in the <$1000 range so I'm pretty flexible.

10/22/2006 12:33:51 PM

I'd buy a Para over any S&W auto pistol


and look for a chiefs special or detectives special

2 great concealed carry wheelguns

10/22/2006 12:37:16 PM

Quote :

" and look for a chiefs special or detectives special 2 great concealed carry wheelguns"

werd.

They won't beat the fuck out of your hand. Stay away from the Airweight scandium .357s.. it's like being kicked in the nuts, only with your hand.

I wear a Steyr around everyday.

10/26/2006 8:24:29 PM

^^^
You might actually be better off with a pocket pistol along the lines of the Kel-Tec P-3AT (HAHAHA GET IT? 3AT???). They're tiny, and very flat, and even decently accurate. Triggers aren't awful either.

10/27/2006 1:39:49 AM

Quote :

""Feels good in your hands" should be one of the top criteria in choosing a handgun... "

I'll rephrase my statement. Make sure you like the way a pistol feels in your hand while it's going off, not just while you are standing in front of the counter at the gun shop.

Anyone that says Glocks suck is an idiot. Period.

Glocks aern't DAO at all. They are striker fire. The beauty of this system (pretty much everyone's copied it since the Glock came out) is the fact that each trigger pull is the SAME, just like in a single action pistol, but there is no hammer to cock manually.

Mine has a let off of just under 4 pounds with the spring and connector I put in it I can roll beer cans at 30 yards with it pretty easily.

After living with the Glock for a while, I actually like the fact that it has no external manual safety. If I unholster the gun, I intend to fire it, and there's no need for a safety switch to complicate matters. Just unholster it and pull the trigger. It just requires you to have serious muzzle and trigger finger discipline, since the gun is carried pretty much always "hot".

10/27/2006 10:32:14 AM

do you carry the glock on a daily basis? 4lbs seems light for a weapon w/o a safety. my sig doesn't have one, of course, but then again that first DAO pull isn't gonna happen by accident

what / how did you go about the trigger mods? I've thought about getting a DAO Sig and might be interested in a lighter trigger

10/27/2006 10:37:56 AM

Quote :

"^ Ever played with an XD? Basically, it's like taking a Hi-Power, adding a non-shitty grip safety, and removing the manual safety. And polymer framed."

I wouldn't mind an XD, but there are two things I can't get over about them. Number one, the fact that they are made in Croatia (the Croatian creation), and used to be cheap ($250-ish) before Springfield started marketing them, then they were all of a sudden $400-plus. They're still made in Croatia. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the fact remains that they nearly doubled in price when SA started marketing them. I wish I had bought several a few years ago before they were Springfields.

Number two, I tried an XD in .40. I really liked it. But I couldnt get over the fact that it only held 13 rounds in a package that was bulkier than my Glock 22, which holds 17 rounds.

I'd still consider an XD .45 though, I guess. I never was particularly fond of the way the Glock 21 fit me, I don't have huge hands.

10/27/2006 10:39:25 AM

hey drake, whats the cheapest good gun

like the "best bang for your buck" type hand gun

10/27/2006 10:40:33 AM

this is slightly off topic but has anyone heard anything about the possiblity of the HK 416 coming into civilian production? seems like a sweet little rifle and it reduces the fouling problems of the AR-15 / M-16 series rifles

10/27/2006 10:42:58 AM

^^that's a blanket statement. What would you be using it for?

If it was my money and I wanted a good defensive pistol (I already have several), it would be a Glock 22 or 23 from Lawmen's. $350-ish. $350 is a bargain for one of these.

10/27/2006 10:57:24 AM

^^
I'd go with a CZ-75 ($400-ish in 9mm, a bit more for .40), because I prefer having a manual safety, true DA (if you like such things), and because Glocks require me to reorganize the bones in my hands to be able to point worth a damn.

10/27/2006 12:32:34 PM

Quote :

"do you carry the glock on a daily basis? 4lbs seems light for a weapon w/o a safety. my sig doesn't have one, of course, but then again that first DAO pull isn't gonna happen by accident what / how did you go about the trigger mods? I've thought about getting a DAO Sig and might be interested in a lighter trigger"

I carry the Glock in a vehicle on a daily basis, and wear it in a holster about once a week or so. I always carry it in a holster of some sort, one that covers the trigger guard/area, so it isn't going off by accident. Plus, there is still quite a bit of takeup in the Glock trigger. I very much like the 3.5 lb trigger connector. I have a philosophy about safety with a Glock: just dont pull the trigger if you don't want to shoot.

Trigger mods? I don't claim to be an expert, I usually just ask around or google search stuff for trigger work. I only own 3 firearms with trigger mods. Good aftermarket triggers and/or competent gunsmiths abound for most types of guns.
With the Glock, having a 3.5 lb trigger is just a matter of changing the connector and spring. Takes about a minute to do.

10/27/2006 2:05:17 PM

Quote :

" It just requires you to have serious muzzle and trigger finger discipline, since the gun is carried pretty much always "hot"."

I think that that serious discipline should be maintained all the time, not less so for having an external mechanical safety.. then there wouldn't be all the somewhat irrational fear of carrying a trigger safetied gun in what is essentially Condition 0.

I didn't have a problem picking a trigger safetied weapon for a carry piece. I also appreciate the draw-and-go-bang gun. It just isn't a Glock.

10/29/2006 2:27:55 PM

going to pick up my handgun purchase permits this week

10/29/2006 10:31:02 PM

bttt

9/8/2008 4:34:31 PM

Gander Mountain here in Greensboro is having a huge sale on handguns right now. They had a whole table full for around $200. Not sure if the one in Raleigh is having the same sale, but it's worth a look.

9/8/2008 4:41:49 PM

I don't think there is a Gander Mountain in Raleigh.

9/8/2008 4:47:11 PM

woah its weird reading Stiletto posts

9/8/2008 4:49:25 PM

really, no Gander Mountain in Raleigh? That's crazy. i heard they are even building one in Mebane.

9/8/2008 4:50:32 PM

I bought a 9mm beretta cougar 8000 a few weeks ago. Its very concealable and shoots well. I would recommend beretta if you can afford it.

9/8/2008 5:01:17 PM

^^^no kidding, I had to do a double take

9/8/2008 6:19:10 PM

damn eric getting me all excited about a gun sale and then saying it's in greensboro.

punk.

Quote :

"just picked up a NIB HK P7M13 woot! woot!"

that's what, $1300?

Quote :

"Number two, I tried an XD in .40. I really liked it. But I couldnt get over the fact that it only held 13 rounds in a package that was bulkier than my Glock 22, which holds 17 rounds."

that's been fixed now with the new XD's. i have yet to try to new ones. someone here buy one so i can shoot it.

Quote :

"I love the Sig, but I know enough to know that when the adrenaline gets pumping the switch from DA to SA can be a bit disconcerting."

i agree, i'm most accurate with SAO or DAO only. the SAS is a bit better for that, but I have no idea how much i would like it everyday. so i stick with the DA/SA sig.

9/8/2008 6:51:40 PM

Quote :

"damn eric getting me all excited about a gun sale and then saying it's in greensboro."

Yeah. I'm looking for one or two cheapies, but it's not worth driving to GBoro over. I'd like to find a trusty revolver or two on the inexpensive side.

9/8/2008 10:51:53 PM

Kapp Ogburn at PDHSC is working on my 1911 right now...4 lb trigger with polished sear; aftermarket muzzle bushing.

9/8/2008 11:00:46 PM

I've got my M&P Compact for sale on Auction Arms:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=8794205

9/8/2008 11:09:44 PM

i'm glad kapp is back in the store.

9/9/2008 8:59:29 AM

Alright, I had this thread re-opened because I want to purchase a handgun, but am unsure as what to buy. I have been looking online, particularly at the S&W Sigma 9mm and the Walther P22. I have recently held both, but shot neither. I liked the feel of the Sigma; I didn't like the feel of the P22 because my hand didn't completely fit on the grip. I definitely want something around $300 with a polymer frame in a semi-auto 22LR or 9mm. Start the comments/suggestions/criticisms. Thanks!

9/9/2008 10:58:28 AM

what is your primary purpose?

target, self-defense, both?

glock if you want something used for cheap and polymer, they don't have anything in .22LR.

i don't know enough about .22LR pistols to give you any advice other than the walther is too small.

9/9/2008 1:42:49 PM

If you like the Sigma, I suggest checking out a Taurus PT1xx series. For 9mm specifically, the PT111. It has a very similar design, and I see them brand new for less than $350 all the time. I have one that I paid 325 for a little less than half a year ago, and it's a great gun for the money. I've had over 600 rounds through it, and not a single issue yet. It conceals well, shoots well, and has very well-placed controls, so it's my favorite carry gun.

Best thing about 9mm too, is that it'll knock an attacker dead on his ass AND it's cheap enough to go shoot through a box of ammo at least once or twice a month.

9/9/2008 4:24:14 PM

^^^Let me give you some advice. If you are getting this gun for self defense purposes, DO NOT BE CHEAP.

If the situation ever arises and you need to use the gun, you want to be as accurate as you possibly can! You are buying this weapon for your protection, you will wish you had paid an extra 200 bucks when its time to use it. I would say that increasing your chance of survival is worth the extra money. This is one situation where you dont want to short change yourself.

9/9/2008 4:54:51 PM

While you're looking at Smith's, check out the M&P. Extremely user friendly, good trigger, great ergonomics, and some pretty cash-back and / or magazine deals. You'll pay more than $300, but you'll get a good gun.

If you're looking for something reliable, unless you go used, I wouldn't drop below $600. Like he said, do not be cheap.

Why are you set on polymer?

9/9/2008 6:45:45 PM

My purpose for buying the gun would be primarily plinking, but with a close secondary purpose of self defense. I'm in law school now, but I know a bunch of criminal attorneys that have their CCW permit. So, concealment would be an issue a few years down the road.

I have heard that if you are wanting to get into handguns to start with a 22, because you are most likely going to buy one at some point anyway for plinking and they are the best to learn with. Since I am novice with handguns, I thought that a 22 would be a good place to start. Plus if I do become accurate with it, it should be as deadly as any other gun (especially with a 10 round semi-auto).

I will check out the Taurus that was suggested. The M&P's seem to be too far out of my price range. I don't mind going a bit higher, but to double the price is not currently possible. I understand the argument of 'buy cheap, get cheap,' which is one reason I was wanting to start with a 22. Learn how to shoot well with a 22 and then after learning (and obtaining more funds) buy something with a little more punch.

As for the polymer frame - I heard that they require less maintenance. There might not be any validity to this, but I do know that polymer does not rust.

9/9/2008 7:38:06 PM

Quote :

"Plus if I do become accurate with it, it should be as deadly as any other gun (especially with a 10 round semi-auto). "

hell [NO]


and polymer frame isn't going to get you out of any real maintainance. just get a pistol you like. if you're really that worried about it, stainless is also an option.

if you mostly want to punch paper but also want it for self defense, and you're only going to have one pistol, i'd start my search by looking at good 9mm pistols. Enough killing power, and cheapest to shoot out of all the legitimate self-defense rounds.

[Edited on September 9, 2008 at 8:10 PM. Reason : asdfads]

9/9/2008 8:10:01 PM

Quote :

"hell [NO]"

seconded. A .22 is never to be considered an adequate self defense round. Yes, technically, dead is dead. Yes, technically a well placed (or luckily placed) shot from a .22 can kill. Not likely, not under stress, not in the dark, not with your adrenaline surging.

Look for a used Glock in 9mm. I'm not a fan of the grip angle, but if you get a used one in decent shape you really can't go wrong. I know Duke^ has mentioned Lawmen's having sales on used Sigs, that is another good choice. It is probably a little early to be looking for good used M&Ps though I do have one in 9mm up for bid on AuctionArms. (link above)

9/9/2008 8:24:46 PM

yep. i bought a SIG P226 from Lawmen's for $250. it was rough cosmetically, but it served me well for a couple years, when I sold it for a profit. for a little more, you can get a decent one. SIG is the yardstick by which tactical pistols are measured, in my opinion (and that of many, many others).

Glocks seem to be love or hate. I fall into the hate category, but it's pretty much just because of the trigger. If you could sort that out, they'd be ok. Lots of people love them, though. I like the way they feel.

9/9/2008 8:33:35 PM

^^where are you at and how much would you take for it outside of the auction?

9/9/2008 8:36:21 PM

Hate to hijack the thread, but whats the latest take on Springfield XD's and S&W M&P's? Looking at both in 9mm, standard lengths, used of course, I'm kind of split on personal defense and also a good target pistol. Finally moving to Charlotte and not very impressed with the area my work is in, had someone killed literally 100 yards away a few months ago. Charlotte gun show is coming this weekend and wondering are they generally rip-offs or good deals? I don't mind putting down a good amount as long as I get a good gun in return. These two I've picked out because of the general lack of complaints compared to many guns, plus when I shot my friend's XD I liked the feel a lot more than the other ones he had like Sig and Hi-Power.

9/9/2008 8:42:35 PM

^^ I'm in Alabama now. $500 is the "Buy it now" price on the auction, but I already have one bid so I can't back out now.

^ I've owned both the M&P and the XD and I liked both. I had no reliability issues with either. I never fell in love with the XD, but benefits I liked were the ability to check it loaded / cocked status purely by touch. It holds an exceptional number of rounds and has a decent grip. Some folks aren't a fan of the grip safety. I like the M&P's ergonomics a lot better, but some people are still a bit cautious about the sear disconnect lever. Both guns will do you well based on my experience.

9/9/2008 9:13:03 PM

I checked lawmen's the other day, and unless I am checking the wrong website - they didn't have any Sigs. I have looked into the Glocks, but am unable to find a used one from a shop that I would trust. One reason I was considering the Sigma is because it is pretty much a clone of the glock (hence the patent infringement lawsuit).

I also just checked into the Taurus PT111, I like it, but I am afraid that I will have the same problem with it that I had with the P22 - too small for my hand; I will have to check out the local gun shop to determine this. I did read up on Taurus and it seems that they have basically been associated with S&W up until the 1970's and then they bought an old complete Beretta factory (designs and everything included). So, it seems that they have basically stole some ideas and what not from both S&W and Beretta. Although they are a Brazilian company, they seem to have a good customer service policy. However, I have been reading several negative reviews about the PT111 - saying that it hap hazardously ejects the casing, among other things.

Any thoughts on the Kel-Tec PF-9 or P11? Both also seem small, but I have read better things about the P11 than the Taurus PT111.

[Edited on September 9, 2008 at 10:51 PM. Reason : spelling]

9/9/2008 10:48:04 PM

Quote :

"Any thoughts on the Kel-Tec PF-9 or P11?"

Good pocket pistols on a budget, they're no frills versions that I think match bigger name brands that are 2 or 3 times the price.

Pf-9 had some quality issues initially, but that's been worked out by now and they're reliable and accurate for a decent carry piece.

9/9/2008 11:22:21 PM

PF-9 is a great pocket pistol, I'm going to snag one soon here. They're not something you'll shoot often though and they're only capable of limited use with +P ammo.

9/9/2008 11:52:48 PM

Quote :

"unless I am checking the wrong website "

The website is never up to date. Walk in and the used guns are at the counter on the far right.

9/10/2008 12:28:37 AM

Sigma isn't a Glock clone. It has an insanely heavy, gritty, nasty trigger. I personally hate them as it's one of the worst that I've fired.

Springfield XD can be had for around $418 from Lawmen's new. Forget the website, it sucks. Just go in the store. They only have a couple of things online but they carry a lot more (you can't buy a NEW Glock there though. Same goes for some Sigs & M&Ps as well). Used guns are on the Right side of the store in the case facing the back wall.

PF9 & P11 have 1 problem. They're made by a company that refuses to put any money into doing halfway decent finishing on their guns or actually trying to correct problems on new guns. Instead they keep the price $5 lower than it would cost to actually remove the flash left over on the polymer from the mold and just fix the thousands of defective guns when they're sent back. They do have an excellent warranty program but I'll never buy another one. After being "fixed" 3 times, I sold my P3AT and it still wasn't working. P11 & (recent) PF9s seem to be more reliable but it's not worth it imo. I don't want a gun where the majority of owners say "It's been a great gun since I got it back from KelTec the 2nd/3rd/127th time". I'd rather buy a Taurus.

Add a $100 to your budget and you can pick up a much nicer/better gun than the $300 range. For $400 it'll be much easier to find used Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, Kahr CW9s, used (older) Sig P226s, etc. You might want to check out http://www.carolinashootersforum.com also. There's some good guys on there and you can find some pretty good deals as well.

9/10/2008 12:54:58 AM

My last Kel-Tec (A PLR-16 with the plastic forend and a muzzle brake) never gave me a single problem. No, it didn't look pretty, but it isn't supposed to. It never malfunctioned, not once.

[Edited on September 10, 2008 at 2:26 AM. Reason : ]

9/10/2008 2:26:39 AM

The reason that I am primarily checking websites is that I am in BFE Virginia. Anyone ever bought a gun off of Budsgunshop.com? Anyone ever bought a gun offline?

9/10/2008 8:24:18 AM

I've bought guns online, though never through Bud's. Bud's does have a good reputation though, so I wouldn't discourage you at all. It is the same as buying anything else online except that you need to have it shipped to an FFL who will do the transaction for you, usually for $15 - 25. If they try to charge you any more than that, you're getting ripped off.

9/10/2008 8:36:29 AM

I would also stay away from buying something online unless you've used it yourself already. If you don't know how it handles, you may get it and end up hating it. If you're ever down in Raleighwood, me and any of these other guys would be glad to let you test drive some stuff at the range, I'm sure.

On the note about the PT111 issues, it's important to note that there are 3 generations of that gun, and most people who bitch about theirs online have a 1st-gen. The first one was not awesome at all, DAO, and had some reliability issues, but in the 2nd and 3rd-gen, they completely changed the FCG operation, made it SA/DA, and took care of the problems they had with the 1st. I've got a 2nd, and it runs like a champ. Not a single FTF/FTE, and I've run all sorts of crap through it.

As for the quality - you noted right up there where they started making guns - Working with S&W, then making Beretta clones on Beretta tooling and equipment. It's top quality workmanship, I'm sure, because these guys learned from some of the best, and I've got two Taurus handguns myself.

the PT111 is single stack, and a compact, so you may not like the grip's "narrowness"(is that a word?), but it's much bigger than the P22, and a little smaller than the Sigma, which is a double stack iirc.

9/10/2008 9:14:01 AM