4

5/13/2007 5:22:42 PM

Hmm...I've known plenty of fucking stupid vegans and plenty of intelligent healthy vegans. Veganism has nothing to do with people's childrearing ability. Sorry.

Along with many other people in this thread, I have been a vegetarian (lacto ovo), for almost 8 years strong (since I was 16). I've always been pretty health conscious and making sure I get enough protein via cheese, beans, eggs, and occasionally soy. I take a multivitamin daily, and have never been anemic. My cholesterol levels, weight, and blood pressure are in the healthy range even though I eat my fair share of eggs. My doctor never advised me to eat meat. ever.

Oh, I also bike to and from work, practice yoga, and garden at least 3 days/ week (lost 15 pounds since beginning bike commuting) and drive <50 miles/week, usually 1x a week back to Raleigh. So it's entirely dependent on lifestyle and choice.

P.S. Soy sucks imo. Beans, eggs and dairy products are the way to go.

5/13/2007 7:18:29 PM

thank you 0EPII1

at least someone here isn't a goddamn vegetarian nutjob spouting off 'facts' they read on the backs of their feel good but really is worse for everything foods that they over paid for...


basically, you cannot be vegan/vegetarian and survive adequately with out artificial supplements

which to me, pretty much negates anything "all natural" and "heathly" about it....

and btw, "nature" isn't all that good for you... most of it will kill you...

but by all means do continue to be duped by "organic" labels and such as being better for you / the environment... because most of the time, it's not.

well some vegetarian diets can but barely (animal products)

this is why not one of these vegetarians / vegans is a nutrition major....

[Edited on May 14, 2007 at 12:55 PM. Reason : s]

5/14/2007 12:53:57 PM

Quote :

"basically, you cannot be vegan/vegetarian and survive adequately with out artificial supplements "

FACT

Quote :

"and btw, "nature" isn't all that good for you... most of it will kill you..."

FACT

Quote :

"but by all means do continue to be duped by "organic" labels and such as being better for you / the environment... because most of the time, it's not."

FACTOID

Quote :

"well some vegetarian diets can but barely (animal products)"

FACT

Quote :

"this is why not one of these vegetarians / vegans is a nutrition major...."

FACT-TACULAR


[Edited on May 14, 2007 at 1:49 PM. Reason : holy fuck thats a lot of bullshit in one post]

5/14/2007 1:46:09 PM

Thanks for clearing up any doubts simply by stating that it was bullshit.

5/14/2007 1:56:28 PM

Quote :

"Gah, TWW is seriously bringing weak sauce lately."

Not as weak as vegan sauce apparently.

5/14/2007 3:18:32 PM

Quote :

"this is why not one of these vegetarians / vegans is a nutrition major..."

exactly. good point.

5/14/2007 3:35:54 PM

Quote :

"Not as weak as vegan sauce apparently."

Heyo, we got a comedian in the house. Alert "Last Comic Standing!"

5/14/2007 3:41:06 PM

Hey-o!

5/14/2007 3:42:16 PM

i don't feel like reading everything but why did they not just breast feed the child!?!?

5/14/2007 4:16:09 PM

Vegans aren't retarded, they're just faith freaks. My guess is that they've decided for emotional and traditional reasons to be vegans just like why people believe in god, the way, the hindu recursive thing, and all the other nonsense. It's good that there are spinoff groups because sometimes people stumble on good ideas. It's important that there is communication and science so that bad spinoffs die and good ones gain popularity. It won't be long before we make our food synthetically and the idea of eating any lifeforms at all will be viewed as an expensive specialty called anthropological cuisine. BTW this thread about the two parents has nothing to do with veganism.

5/14/2007 5:05:10 PM

Quote :

"this is why not one of these vegetarians / vegans is a nutrition major..."

um

there are tons of nutritionists who are vegetarians, and tons of nutrition majors too, I'm sure, since you have to study nutrition to be a nutritionist.

Quote :

"Vegetarian since the age of 12, Yvonne Bishop-Weston BSc Dip ION MBANT studied at The Institute of Optimum Nutrition in London and won an award for her work on the importance of essential fatty acids in vegan and vegetarian pregnancy. Having held key roles in Holland & Barrett (health food chain), Cranks (vegetarian restaurant and foodservice), The Food Doctor (corporate wellness) she now offers corporate nutrition consultancy and personal nutritional therapy via Foods For Life in Croydon, south London."

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/nutritionist/vegetarian-nutritionist.html

Quote :

"The VNCC is a nutrition counseling and education practice specializing in vegetarian nutrition, using vegetarian principles to improve all diets. Our nutrition counseling falls into two categories: # Wellness: We help clients improve their long-term health by adopting a healthier way of eating, customized for their bodies and lifestyles. # Health improvement: We help clients address specific health issues through diet and supplements."

http://www.vnccolorado.com/

Quote :

"Steve earned his Bachelor's degree in Biology at Bucknell University. He followed that with a Masters degree in Sociology from Tufts University concentrating heavily in research, and a Nutrition Therapy degree from the Nutrition Therapy Institute in Denver. Steve is a long-time vegan. He is also an avid mountaineer, instructor and hiking guide. Steve has been published in the local press and is a popular speaker on nutritional issues"

how in the world could you assume something that obviously must have tons of counterpoints? that's ridiculous.

Quote :

"basically, you cannot be vegan/vegetarian and survive adequately with out artificial supplements"

INCORRECT. You will probably be better off with them, but you certainly CAN survive and survive healthily. This is just silly.



[Edited on May 14, 2007 at 7:34 PM. Reason : ,]

5/14/2007 7:30:42 PM

exactly.
to say that humans should eat meat and can't survive a healthy life without it is ridiculous when there are tons of people that do it...and not all are sucking down artificial stuff or taking pills/vitamins every day. they just get their nutrition in other ways...which is perfectly fine as long as you do it. I love my greens and my fruits and what not. I used to be a pesci-vegetarian but decided just to cut it all out anyway. every now and then (prob. once every 3 months ha) I'll have salmon or something. otherwise, I'm really good at replacing the good stuff that I'm missing out on...

5/14/2007 8:57:21 PM

good, if you are educated about it, that's good.

but i am curious, where do you get:

iron
zinc
selenium
calcium (i am assuming you are dairy-free)
omega-3 fatty acids

5/14/2007 9:00:07 PM

iron-beans mostly, greens
zinc-more beans, whole grain stuff
selenium-don't even know what this is and where I could find it besides meat. care to enlighten me?
calcium (i am assuming you are dairy-free)-I'm not 100% dairy free, I just never drink milk. I do eat cheese, and yogurt especially.
omega-3 fatty acids-this is when I eat salmon if anything I haven't cooked doesn't contain flax seeds. but like I said, I don't get a lot of this period since I RARELY ever eat salmon. I get mostly omega-6 which is better? and if I'm not mistaken, found in whole grains, nuts, etc.

5/14/2007 9:06:03 PM

1) both omega-6 and omega-3 are needed by the body, but omega-3 has more crucial roles to play, AND is the one that most humans are deficient in, esp in the developed world, as its only animal source is oily fish, and most people don't eat much fish, and when they do, it is often a dry/white fish, or they eat shellfish, which doesn't have much, or they eat fried fish, which destroys the omega-3 fats.

they are essential for the development of the fetus' and newborn's brain and eyesight, and intelligence as well. and recent studies using omega-3 therapy have shown tremendous benefit for kids with ADHD (eliminating need for drugs, and drastically improving their behaviour and grades!), for arthritis, and for reducing risk of degenerative brain disorders that come with aging, as well for reducing risk of heart diseases and stroke.

so as i was saying, modern humans are deprived of this nutrient. it is estimated that our hunter-gatherer ancestors used to get a ratio of between 2:1 and 1:2 for omega-3 : omega-6. but now the average american gets a ratio of 1:10 for omega-3 : omega-6, as fish has been eliminated from the diet, as have been other sources (grass-fed beef/chicken/eggs), and on top, most products are grain-based, or have grain ingredients in them, and even our livestock is grain/bean-fed (cows and chicken).

for more detailed info on omega-3 fats, including function in the body, sources, and conditions helped by supplementation with omega-3: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=84

2) selenium, i would give you info off the top of my head like i did for omega-3 fats, but i will just give you a link to read from: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=95

3) vitamin b12? almost all sources are animal in nature (as for selenium above). where do yo get b12 from? info: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=107


[Edited on May 14, 2007 at 9:27 PM. Reason : ]

5/14/2007 9:25:32 PM

Yeah I mean it just sucks that the only thing I'll eat that's rich in omega-3 is salmon and tuna. And even when I ate meat/fish before, I rarely ever got this (like you said, we're pretty much deprived of this). I think the main thing I need to do is start cooking w/flaxseed oil to get more omega-3. I did before, but I def. lacked on this...Thanks for the links by the way.

oh yeah and as for selenium...I do eat a lot of whats on that list on that page.

ps, am I mistaken or is omega-3 in avacado oil? I may be wrong, but I forget...

[Edited on May 14, 2007 at 11:39 PM. Reason : fdg]

5/14/2007 11:31:53 PM

Quote :

" cooking w/flaxseed oil"

NEVER DO THAT!!!!

flaxseed oil is something you never heat. it has to be stored in the fridge, and has to be in a dark bottle.

it is something you can drizzle on your salad, or on prepared food (as long as it isn't steaming hot), or something you take by the spoon, say a tablespoon 2-3 times a week. it tastes great, btw.

and you can use flaxseed meal in smoothies, sprinkle on salads, fruit salads, hot cereals, in soups for thickening (at the end, when off the heat), or in baking, but i wouldn't advise it, again because of the heat.

don't use whole flaxseeds, as they are very hard to chew, and will mostly pass out your body intact.

as far as i know, there are no omega-3 fats in avocados.


study all of this slowly, i am doing the same to increase my knowledge:

list of nutrients, what foods to find them in, what they do in our body, etc:
http://whfoods.org/nutrientstoc.php

list of foods, what nutrients are in them, what the foods do for us, nutritional analysis, and recipes:
http://whfoods.org/foodstoc.php

5/14/2007 11:47:19 PM

HAHAH yeah when I said "cook" I definitely meant put on my salads. seriously. heh. as far as flaxseed MEAL goes, yeah I guess I won't bake w/it anymore. interesting.
thanks for the nutrition lesson! I will def. bookmark the links.

5/14/2007 11:49:55 PM

you are welcome... i just discovered that website (http://www.whfoods.org) a few days ago, and i am in love with it.

but i am also jealous because that's something i would have liked to make!

anyway, you can also read my nutrition thread which has lots of info:

?topic=453117

you can ask nutrition questions in it whenever you want.

5/14/2007 11:52:38 PM

that is an excellent thread.

5/15/2007 12:03:06 AM

my parents are vegetarians. at around age 12 i also decided to become one. i am perfectly healthy, and have never taken any supplements. most of the people in this thread are posting bullshit.

5/15/2007 1:25:49 AM

Quote :

"iron"

It's in all kinds of things. Oats, for example. When I used to give blood, they always said I had plenty of iron.

Quote :

"calcium"

Various leafy greens, some nuts, beans, etc. And fortified foods, of course.

Quote :

"omega-3 fatty acids"

Flax seeds.

5/15/2007 5:46:21 PM

it makes me sad that people starve children.

i don't get it.

5/16/2007 10:37:04 PM

if you eat dairy, I dont give a fuck what you say you are. you are not a vegan.

5/17/2007 9:35:03 AM

Quote :

"and won an award for her work on the importance of essential fatty acids in vegan and vegetarian pregnancy."

you can win an award for being a dumbass?

of course you need fatty acids during pregnancy.

5/17/2007 11:41:38 AM

i just think vegans have something wrong with their taste buds.....

5/17/2007 12:27:42 PM

how is it a religious thing, god designed us to eat meat, and in some cases he even went so far as to tell us which animals we could and couldn't eat. by not eating meat you are denying one of the gifts god gave us. and hell if it's a moral thing, animals eat each other, that's just how it is. and when we die the grass eats us, and cows eat the grass and our kids eat the cow. "dying is just another part of life Forrest"

5/17/2007 12:33:03 PM

^^ Aha, actually i feel that my tastebuds are must more sensitive now. My appetite has deminished and I eat slower. Whenever I get something that is too greasy, salty, or sugary my mouth wants to reject it. I appreciate the variety of spices and sauces more now because I don't dilute everything with milk and cheese.

Quote :

"how is it a religious thing, god designed us to eat meat, and in some cases he even went so far as to tell us which animals we could and couldn't eat. by not eating meat you are denying one of the gifts god gave us. and hell if it's a moral thing, animals eat each other, that's just how it is. and when we die the grass eats us, and cows eat the grass and our kids eat the cow. "dying is just another part of life Forrest""

If god designed us to eat meat then I'm sure his intent was for us to do the killing and prep ourselves not to get in a car and ride 5 miles away to pick up the 2 for 1 steak special on your MVP card. If you lived in the woods or raised animals for slaughter to survive I'd agree that you are acting in the same manner as other animals. But with that convenience we now have the option to survive by not supporting how animals are raised and killed for profit. You are also provided with free will as part of that gift package you mention.



[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 12:44 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/17/2007 12:35:17 PM

Quote :

"by not eating meat you are denying one of the gifts god gave us"

I agree that God wanted us to eat meat and what not, but as a Christian, I feel uncomfortable saying that it's wrong for someone to beat their dog or treat their pets badly, and then turn around and have a burger...
I'm not saying that it's sinful for christians to eat meat that they didn't go out and kill themselves, I'm just saying that personally, I feel like I shouldn't eat it. I'm not denying a gift from God...if you want to go that far, you could say that God never meant for animals to be treated the way they are so that we can make money. there's no way.
That's not my only reason for being vegetarian though. I just think unless you're eating organic meat, it's not that healthy. I don't like eating stuff w/hormones and other crap given to the animals.

5/17/2007 1:04:26 PM

my grandfather owned a cattle ranch, when I'm home I go fishing at one of the three ponds on my family's property, I helped my father skin a deer when I was 8, my grandpa has a dove feild made up ever year. I can tell you that watching your food die doesn't make you feel better about it. but it's true that at least they had a decent life (not that they'd remembered any of it or kept a diary of it). I don't know if it's better for you to eat animals from the wild but deer sausage is great, and the fresher the fish is the better. I don't know I guess if I didn't like meat so much I just wouldn't eat it, but it bothers me when parents raise their kids forcing their beliefs on them, any beliefs, and in this case I know 3 people that wouldn't mind eating meat to try it but they'd be sick for a week. but I'm not saying that if it's something you believe in that you should stop, it's just hard for me to understand

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 1:58 PM. Reason : forgot the not]

5/17/2007 1:56:36 PM

That's cool. Like I said earlier, I couldn't kill something and eat it. Even as a kid I didn't like to eat the fish I caught. Always felt weird about it deep down. I respect people that can do all that themselves, if it's not for game. On the parenting thing, I don't believe anyone should have anything force upon them as the only way of doing things. If I ever have kids I'll try to raise them vegan/veg and teach them what I know but if they insist on trying meat I will not stop them.

5/17/2007 2:31:57 PM

it's just that if they don't eat meat untill they are like 13 it'll be hard for them to start. you can always make the choice to stop eating meat

5/17/2007 2:56:53 PM

haahh you do realize they used to sacrifice animals just for the "god" you worship...

5/17/2007 2:58:51 PM

who? me? did i say i worship him anywhere?

5/17/2007 3:01:26 PM

uh oh

little h in "him" spotting

that means he's serious

5/17/2007 3:31:04 PM

From the first page...

This chick looks like a demon!!!

5/17/2007 3:53:12 PM

^^ I know how TWW works.

^ I get the feeling he is doing the straight edge hardcore prep look. People like that made me leave the scene about 8 or 9 years ago.

[Edited on May 17, 2007 at 3:58 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/17/2007 3:56:07 PM

not you, this cat:

Quote :

"you could say that God never meant for animals to be treated the way they are so that we can make money "

But he wanted them killed just for the hell of it in his name? lawlor

5/17/2007 5:10:45 PM

I know this thread is about something tragic but it got me thinking... would a vegan chick swallow? Seriously.

5/17/2007 7:21:38 PM

every group has a few bad apples, and everyone has their own lifestyle. i'm sure you're the posterchild for health and fitness.

5/17/2007 10:57:23 PM

i am.

5/17/2007 11:01:47 PM

^^^ I've actually wondered that too

5/17/2007 11:26:12 PM

Dan, you are right about the factors, a good defense attorney would bring those up.

5/18/2007 10:52:13 AM

5^ somebody answer that

5/18/2007 2:00:58 PM

Since the guy she's swallowing from is a willing participant, I doubt it would be a big deal. Most vegans who are vegans for moral reasons do so because the animal can't say yes or no to your taking of its milk, etc.

5/18/2007 2:09:08 PM

Well, I can speculate too, but I think we need a vegan chick to answer.

5/18/2007 3:10:02 PM

And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possessed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

5/21/2007 3:36:12 PM

^ LOL

reminds me I can't wait to see Tool in June!

5/21/2007 3:37:25 PM

THIS

IS

NECESSARY


LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE

5/21/2007 3:40:56 PM