4

3/18/2008 3:29:53 PM

Quote :

"reform the mental health system in this country. It's recently been talked about how much it's failing in NC recently. "

That wouldn't have helped at VT.
Yeah, we have laws that say you can't get handguns if you've been deemed mentally adjunct or have been committed to a mental institution.

What you don't know is the system used for background checks prior to handgun purchases is so under funded that most states don't enter their data into the system.

So, if that dude got more treatment but was still crazy then he still probably could have purchased a handgun.

3/18/2008 3:34:18 PM

You know what would've helped at VT

If every gun in the world not being used for a military or law enforcement purpose had been destroyed the day before.

Just saying.

3/18/2008 3:37:01 PM

73, I said most people. I know there are those out there that care about this stuff as much as abortion and so forth. But as you have it, most people in here are all...

MCCAIN 08!!!

3/18/2008 3:37:21 PM

Quote :

"You know what would've helped at VT If every gun in the world not being used for a military or law enforcement purpose had been destroyed the day before. Just saying."

hahaha no shit sherlock

you know what would make drugs go away? if we destroyed every drug in the world.

3/18/2008 4:00:17 PM

Quote :

"You know what would've helped at VT If every gun in the world not being used for a military or law enforcement purpose had been destroyed the day before. Just saying."

hows the world look from up there? is it lonely?

3/18/2008 4:02:34 PM

Stein has to be trolling at this point

3/18/2008 4:07:44 PM

i think it's interesting how everyone that's against this seems to be imagining drunken idiot frat boy freshmen with guns in class, instead of legally allowed ccp holders carrying.

3/18/2008 4:21:29 PM

Quote :

"hows the world look from up there? is it lonely?"

We've replaced guns with hugs and everyone's super happy.

I mean, I think it's fairly obvious I wasn't being serious, but if you're going to play the "that wouldn't have helped at VT" card, I might as well point out the one thing that absolutely would have.

Granted, it's impractical and largely unreasonable, but there's no denying that no guns means no innocent gun deaths. And at the end of the day, isn't that part of what you're trying to prevent by bringing your guns everywhere with you?

3/18/2008 5:49:14 PM

Walkin down the road

with a pistol in your waist

johnny youre too bad

3/18/2008 8:47:07 PM

I was thinking about participating as I work on campus, but my company doesn't allow me to carry to work anyway, so it might not go over very well

3/18/2008 8:58:36 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umNk9nVxbQ&feature=related

3/18/2008 9:14:33 PM

Quote :

"I mean, I think it's fairly obvious I wasn't being serious, but if you're going to play the "that wouldn't have helped at VT" card, I might as well point out the one thing that absolutely would have. Granted, it's impractical and largely unreasonable, but there's no denying that no guns means no innocent gun deaths. And at the end of the day, isn't that part of what you're trying to prevent by bringing your guns everywhere with you?"

i think that you are just too caught up in the idea that guns are the only way that innocent people die

there are plenty of other ways to kill the same number of people without guns

timothy mcveigh proved that...you want to completely ban diesel fuel and nitrates?

3/18/2008 9:20:14 PM

Some of you knuckleheads need to go to a gun shop and inquire about the North Carolina CCW process. Lots of what you're suggesting is fantastic but we don't live in fairy land where people wouldn't want to hurt/rape/rob if they didn't have guns. They're out there anyway, why not level the playing field for those of us who choose to obey the law ("God created man, Sam Colt made them equal")? Laws are made for law-abiding citizens.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:36 PM. Reason : vitamins and minerals]

3/18/2008 9:34:54 PM

Quote :

"I really love how rather than just say "hey, maybe we should re-evaluate the job campus police is doing" you'd all rather just have a bunch of random people carrying around guns just in case."

At the Illinois shooting, the campus police, in a statement to reassure people that they are doing everything they can to keep students safe highlighted the fact that they responded to the shooting and arrived at the hall within 2 minutes. Yet in those same two minutes, 6 people were killed. For reference that's one student every 20 seconds. I don't care how many police you add to the campus force (which by the way, is only adding more guns, the same thing the CCP would do), unless you plan on stationing an officer in every room of every building every hour of every day, the only thing the police will be good for is tagging the bodies and taking reports. And while I'm under no illusion that there will be a well trained CCP in every classroom, at the very least, it adds more bodies, and volunteer ones at that. Why does it have to be an all or nothing approach? Why can't you add to the police force and allow for CCPs? You increase your overall safety and only have to pay part of it

Also, why would you need to change anything about your campus security (CCP, more police, more cameras etc) except for any other reason than "just in case"?

Quote :

"If students on a campus feel unsafe, it should be the responsibility of that campus administration and police to fix that. Not Concealed Carry baonest (no offense)."

So in what way are the campus police going to be able to respond to an emergency in enough time to save lives? None of the recent shootings and attacks have been stopped by the police. Nor are they obligated by law to save you personally, just the public at large. Besides, what right do you have to ask another human being to put their life on the line to save yours, yet at the same time deny those who wish to take the responsibility for their own lives upon themselves the right to do so?

Quote :

"And you're right, who would want the police to do their jobs when we've got a bunch of guys with guns ready to act?"

The job of the police is not to protect any one life. And again, why does it have to be all or nothing? Why can't the police do their jobs and the CCP's save their own lives?

Quote :

"But would I feel safer knowing that no one around me had a gun? Of course."

Why? Do you often fear that random people around you will seek to kill you? And if so, why do you only fear that they will do so with a gun and not something else?

Quote :

"you realize that you can legally carry knives up to a certain size on your person, correct? why not do this? why do you need to carry a weapon thats only purpose is to kill other human beings? I could understand if you said you wanted to carry mace or a tazer, but a fucking gun? Get real."

Question: When a shooter is breaking dow your classroom door, which would you rather have a pocket knife or a gun?

Question: Why do you fear a person with a gun and the willingness to use it to defend themselves but don't fear that same person with a knife or mace or a tazer?

Question: Do you always only do the bear minimum to get by or do you prefer to choose the best tool for the job?

Quote :

"I'm more than content with the fact that the illusion of safety I live under has fewer lethal weapons than the illusion of safety you live under. "

I'm more content knowing that my illusion of safety is actually statistically safer than yours.

3/18/2008 9:45:22 PM

Quote :

"I'm late to the party, but how did no one pick up on this:"

no one picked up on it because its a well known fact that jacklog is a pill head. He does 'illegal' drugs too, but I'm talking about prescription drugs. If only TWW didn't purge old PM's. I could post half a dozen PM's from this kid wanting to buy my pain meds and prescribed narcotics. But then again, you're late to the party so you probably missed all that anyway.

3/18/2008 10:20:54 PM

Quote :

"The university loses it focus as a place to provide education; people are more worried about their own physical security. "

people should always be concerned about their own physical security. it would be irresponsible not to.

3/19/2008 6:04:28 AM

Quote :

"Why? Do you often fear that random people around you will seek to kill you? "

Isn't that the whole reasoning behind wanting to bring a woapon to campus? Sounds like you're the one with the issues, not me.

3/19/2008 7:16:27 AM

Ok here's a hypothetical situation that I've been thinking about as I am reading this thread:

Say youre walkng back to your car (or whatever) after class one night and some dude jumps from behind the shadows and gets his gun pointed at you demanding whatever you have.

You, having your 9mm on your side, say, "Oh no motherfucker not this ti..."

and as soon as he sees you reach for it, you're dead, and hes richer and in possession of your weapon

Seems like someone willing to rob someone at gunpoint with a (probably) illegal handgun might
be a little quicker to pull the trigger than you can defend yourself.

And lets say you do end up in a stand-off. Someone's going to get hurt, as opposed to there being a chance that he'll feel no threat and just make off with your money, on foot.

I guess what I believe the bottom line to be is, if you support the ccw for protection you better be ready to kill, and quick.

I'm not for or against this yet, just something I wanted to hear you guys' thoughts on

3/19/2008 8:17:45 AM

I think it definitely leads to an escalation of ALL situations, and dangerously so. Situations that might have you without a wallet or at worst a black eye before could end up with someone going to the hospital with a bullet wound. There's not much room for middle ground if you weaponize conflicts like this.

3/19/2008 8:21:44 AM

Quote :

"Situations that might have you without a wallet or at worst a black eye "

or, you know, beat up with broken bones, raped, murdered, kidnapped...

3/19/2008 8:22:49 AM

Robberies are much more common than rape or muder, and that's what my point is.


But thank you for being a reactionary idiot.

3/19/2008 8:29:55 AM

Quote :

"Sounds like you're the one with the issues, not me."

You really are just trolling aren't you. It's kinda sad.

Quote :

"I think it definitely leads to an escalation of ALL situations"

What you think and what is true in reality are two different things.

Quote :

"Robberies are much more common than rape or muder, and that's what my point is."

Need facts, not conjecture. Stop trolling.

Quote :

"Seems like someone willing to rob someone at gunpoint with a (probably) illegal handgun might be a little quicker to pull the trigger than you can defend yourself."

I'd give the guy my wallet. No question. I know that's the easiest way to defend myself. Now if he wanted more than that.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 8:42 AM. Reason : f]

3/19/2008 8:41:26 AM

yeah no kidding, i mean if i have a gun to my face, im not going to try to whip mine out. ill try to wait for the right time. and there might not even be one.

anyone kind of knows this.

3/19/2008 8:45:52 AM

SkankinMonky you apparently have no knowledge of guns or the practical use of them. seriously...you just look stupid here.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 8:52 AM. Reason : use]

3/19/2008 8:51:48 AM

Quote :

"You, having your 9mm on your side, say, "Oh no motherfucker not this ti..." and as soon as he sees you reach for it, you're dead, and hes richer and in possession of your weapon"

Anyone legally carrying a gun would know how and when to use it by default.
If you ask anyone who's experienced in gun handling what they would do in this situation and their reply would be:

Quote :

"I'd give the guy my wallet. No question. I know that's the easiest way to defend myself. Now if he wanted more than that."

Quote :

"SkankinMonky you apparently have no knowledge of guns or the practical use of them. seriously...you just look stupid here."

Agreed.

3/19/2008 9:35:14 AM

^ I agree

My point was that a concealed carry license cannot necessarily protect you from a robbery (like those we've had around campus recently). It could very easily turn out much worse than if you did not have a weapon. True, persons trained with handling firearms would (i guess, myself not being included in the trained/owner) not use their weapon in that situation, but it seems as though if you go through all the motions to protect yourself from robberies with a concealed handgun, then it would be more logically effective against what I assume most fear will happen to them (robbery). .

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:31 AM. Reason : ^ I see what you're saying about anything further than just robbery]

3/19/2008 10:29:01 AM

a guy in my dorm was shot in the face my freshman year when he was robbed at the bank atm across from the old darryls, he got really really lucky about the path of the bullet though and just had to wear a sling for a bit and a few stitches.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 11:07 AM. Reason : universal healthcare - horrible idea for other reasons]

3/19/2008 11:02:51 AM

Quote :

"Isn't that the whole reasoning behind wanting to bring a woapon to campus? Sounds like you're the one with the issues, not me."

There's a difference between being prepared, and being afraid. Do you wear a seat belt because you're afraid that you will get into a crash every time you start driving? Or do you wear a seat belt because it's helpful to be prepared in the event of a crash?

Or let's look at it another way. You're (apparently) afraid that people routinely around you would seek to kill you and cause you harm. Why then would you not want to have the most effective tools you can to defend yourself?

Quote :

"Say youre walkng back to your car (or whatever) after class one night and some dude jumps from behind the shadows and gets his gun pointed at you demanding whatever you have. "

You toss your wallet at him. A gun won't save you 100% of the time, but neither will a seat belt, a helmet or safety gear. You don't have them because they're useful 100% of the time, you have them because there are situations where they are appropriate and useful. But this is a common sense rule for all of self defense. If you could kill someone twenty times over with just your pinky finger, you're still not going to move while you have a gun to your head. You wait for an opening, and take it if you can. Sometimes you don't get an opening and then you have to make do with what you have. But the more options you have at your disposal, the better off you are.

Also, as a general rule, it's a lot more common for you to be approached from a distance before you get mugged. The guy waiting in the bushes scenario isn't quite as common as movies portray them to be. Remember that these guys for the most part don't want to get into a fight, that's why they're picking targets they feel are weak and unattentive. They try to come up with some way of convincing you to stop and let your guard down ("Hey buddy, got a light?").

Quote :

"I think it definitely leads to an escalation of ALL situations, and dangerously so. Situations that might have you without a wallet or at worst a black eye before could end up with someone going to the hospital with a bullet wound. There's not much room for middle ground if you weaponize conflicts like this."

Once your attacker is armed, the conflict is already weaponized, regardless of how you are armed. The only change that you being armed makes is what options if any you have available to you.

Quote :

"True, persons trained with handling firearms would (i guess, myself not being included in the trained/owner) not use their weapon in that situation, but it seems as though if you go through all the motions to protect yourself from robberies with a concealed handgun, then it would be more logically effective against what I assume most fear will happen to them (robbery). ."

Remember, you're not arming yourself to protect against one specific thing. You arm yourself so that you have another option available to you in a situation where your life is on the line.

3/19/2008 11:45:10 AM

^ very concise, well put.

A situation people often forget about is when you have the ability to act with deadly force in the protection of a 3rd party who currently has the right to use deadly force (, which is legal in NC. Obviously this isn't always appropriate (better to keep out of it if it's a robbery or simple assault) but if I saw someone getting raped or a woman being viciously assaulted I'd have an "overwhelming force" option to make them stop.

For clarification, a citizen is legally justified in using deadly force against another if and only if:

a. The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault and

b. The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force was necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault an

c. The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, and

d. Force used was not excessive - greater than resonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.


CCW holders have strict rules, we follow them, and we damn sure don't WANT to be tried (because that will happen regardless of who is in the right) when handing over a wallet can avoid the death of another and prosecution.

3/19/2008 1:52:57 PM

you always have idiots like skankinmonky who equivocate "current law abiding CCP holders getting increased jurisdiction for carry" as "the entire school will be mandatorily armed to the teeth resulting in hundreds of shootings every day"

3/19/2008 2:21:19 PM

Liberal Hypocrisy

Earlier in this thread Stein wrote this in reference to the VT thing

Quote :

"If every gun in the world not being used for a military or law enforcement purpose had been destroyed the day before."

Now the same liberals who dont trust the government to listen to a phone conversation of a terrorist are totally trusting of the entire populace being disarmed except the military and police? Thats not a recipe for government oppression is it?

Now i am not saying Stein agrees with this, but in general i points out a key flaw in the liberal way of thinking.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 8:52 PM. Reason : .]

3/19/2008 8:51:12 PM

What a surprise, a bunch of idiots full of ignorance and 0 knowledge spouting off about why guns are bad.

Let's see here. Yeah, dorms would definitely be overflowing with guns, as would campuses everywhere since so many students are OVER THE AGE OF 21! The majority of people carrying on campus would be professors, university employees, & grad / continuing education students. Not too many of these people live in the dorms. It's not like 50% of the student population would suddenly be armed.

As for escalating any crimes, that's not very likely. A simple look at the statistics and a small amount of research by you tools would show that CCW permit holders are one of the most responsible groups in the U.S. We actually KNOW the laws (rather than just pulling them out of our asses as you do) and realize when it is legal to even pull our gun out, not to mention use it.

In the U.S., you are more likely to be arrested for a felony if you are a Law Enforcement Officer than if you are a CCW permit holder. Hmm... why is that? After all, we're all gun crazy fools with hero complexes, right?

Please explain to me why states with no CCW permitting have had a rise in violent crimes while states with "high" CCW permit numbers have had a DROP in violent crimes. Why has the violent crime rate in England grown since they have banned basically ALL firearms?

What is this magical aura surrounding campuses that turns your very responsible, very unlikely to get in trouble CCW permit holder into a raging lunatic showing everyone his gun and shooting anyone that dares to get in an argument with him?

Why should my rights be taken from me at a PUBLIC university that I PAY to attend? Perhaps we should take votes on whether practicing Islam is allowed on campus. How about BLGA? After all, if most students don't support it, it shouldn't be here. I believe that point was made earlier, right?

3/19/2008 10:41:18 PM

ive had too many discussions with anti-gun people to think this will be a simple discussion. just two different opinions, i have friends on both sides, i understand. one point though stands out

Quote :

"But would I feel safer knowing that no one around me had a gun? Of course."

the only way you would know that is if you somehow knew that EVERYONE around you was an awesome citizen that obeyed all laws. im sure many of you do, or know someone who smokes weed and will carry their piece with them - thats illegal. so the criminals that are not following the law, carrying the gun they illegally own, illegally (without permit) concealed, with intent of doing something that is also illegal wouldnt even fall into the category of law biding citizens and would carry a gun anyway.

so if you and the people you love are getting robbed/shot at and you want me to keep walking, fine. but if i or the people im loyal to are threatened im confident that my gun is well maintained and will work and that i can most likely shoot better than the criminal that doesnt put hundreds of rounds downrange every month, and i feel i am safer from an illegal, gun-related attack as a result.

that said if i was on campus i would definitely support this. after va tech i cant imagine a place more vulnerable than tons of kids in a classroom, most with doors only leading to the hallway.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 9:53 PM. Reason : wording]

3/19/2008 9:51:35 PM

Quote :

"What a surprise, a bunch of idiots full of ignorance and 0 knowledge spouting off about why guns are bad."

there is no possible reason you can possibly come up with that would justify carrying weapons on campus. Guns being good or bad. The ignorance and 0 knowledge is all coming from your silly posting.

3/19/2008 11:14:38 PM

[quote=Golovko]there is no possible reason you can possibly come up with that would justify carrying weapons on campus. Guns being good or bad. The ignorance and 0 knowledge is all coming from your silly posting.
[/quote]

Let's see... 2 that are easy for everyone here to recognize that MAY have easily been prevented by a student with a CCW permit.... VT & UNC

It's YOU that can't possibly come up with a reason that would NOT justify carrying a HANDGUN on campus (after all, most other weapons are allowed) by a LICENSED, TRAINED, BACKGROUND CHECKED CCW PERMIT HOLDER.

How many students, administrators, & visitors have been killed at a school? I'm not even talking just colleges here. I'd be much happier if the principal and teachers of my nephew's school that were CCW permit holders were allowed to carry.

The only people that are stopped from bringing a handgun on campus, into a posted store, to the theater, or anywhere else that it is banned are the people that are following the law. For a criminal, a sign saying "No Guns Allowed" may as well be a "Welcome" sign.

Why don't you do us a favor and actually try to argue from a factual, intelligent, & educated viewpoint. We've done the research. We shown the facts. You're just sitting there saying "OMIGOD, GUNS ARE BAD!!!".

Here, I'll make it easy on you. I'll change my entire viewpoint if you can provide me one link to all of the massacres that are taking place on college campuses where CCW is allowed. Go ahead, it should be easy. After all, only bad things would happen, right? Wait, don't tell me. The magical force that changes responsible CCW permit holders into lunatics doesn't exist west of the Mississippi?

Do us a favor and take your ignorance and childish irrational fears elsewhere.

3/19/2008 11:32:22 PM

Quote :

"there is no possible reason you can possibly come up with that would justify carrying weapons on campus. "

Guns save lives, very effectively, in many instances, every day around the country. Nothing about a college campus would change this fact.

By the way, for what it's worth, any of you gals (and guys) carrying tazers concealed on you while walking around campus, you're violating the concealed carry laws. To whit:

Quote :

"North Carolina law strictly controls the ability of individuals to carry weapons concealed. Except under the limited concealed handgun permit provisions of state law, described in Sections III. B and III. C of this publication, it is unlawful for any person in North Carolina, except when on his or her own premises, to willfully and intentionally carry concealed, either on or about his or her person, any "Bowie Knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stungun, or other deadly weapon of like kind.” Specifically exempted from the requirements of this law are ordinary pocket knives carried in a closed position. An ordinary pocket knife is defined as being "a small knife, that is designed to be carried in a pocket or purse, which has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle. The knife must not be capable of being opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action." N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-269"

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

So as it stands right now, as a student on campus, your options for self defense are pocket knives and pepperspray (but no more than 2oz). A change to the concealed carry laws would at least give you one other option, if you so chose, and obtained the necessary permit to do so.

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 11:35 PM. Reason : link]

3/19/2008 11:33:51 PM

Don't stop at the schools guys. Aim big. GUNS IN THE AIRPORTS!!!

3/19/2008 10:44:25 PM

Quote :

"Now i am not saying Stein agrees with this"

Quote :

"I mean, I think it's fairly obvious I wasn't being serious"

Honestly, you kids get so worked up because no one wants the CCW hero squad around.

You guys are totally right though. The best possible thing to do is bring more guns into campus and not have anyone batting an eyelash when someone manages to see a gun on campus. Obviously that person has a permit and isn't just some lunatic, no need to mention it to anyone!

3/19/2008 10:53:04 PM

Quote :

"You guys are totally right though. The best possible thing to do is bring more guns into campus and not have anyone batting an eyelash when someone manages to see a gun on campus. Obviously that person has a permit and isn't just some lunatic, no need to mention it to anyone!"

You're a fucking moron who doesn't know the law.

The idea is to allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry on campus.
A concealed handgun permit holder is legally obligated to conceal the gun.
If someone sees it then it is not concealed.
If it is not concealed then they'll be in violation of the law and you've have every damn right to contact the police.

Please learn the law before you say anything stupid.

3/19/2008 11:28:25 PM

Quote :

"Situations that might have you without a wallet or at worst a black eye before could end up with someone going to the hospital with a bullet wound."

Assuming they're the pansy type of criminals... and not the type who left Eve Carson dead. As a girl who just a year ago (before graduating) was living a life very similar to hers... I am more than in support for having concealed carry on campus.

I'm not going to get into the soapbox of it all, as this is educated opinion that I've researched on my own (from both sides), but I'll note some words of wisdom... "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Preventing ourselves from being victimized (by making ourselves less appealing to criminals in the possibility that we may be armed) seems like a pro-active approach to me.

Empty holster for me!

3/19/2008 11:30:06 PM

why not? Airports have this same mysterious force than schools have turning us into raving lunatics?

Those of you against this stuff should really do yourselves a favor and do some damn research.

Are you telling me that if some passengers on the planes during 9/11 were CCW permit holders and carrying their guns that they would have joined the hijackers?

Seriously, as a CCW permit holder, I am MUCH less likely to commit a violent crime than you or any of your non-CCW permit holding friends are. Looks like the statistics are in my favor, not yours.

To get my CCW permit, this is what I had to go through:

1st I had to sign up for a course to verify that I can shoot what I'm aiming at and not put others in danger. This course averages around $200 in NC. In some states, I've seen as high as $600. IF I pass, then I'm given a completion certificate showing my competence.
2nd, I take my certificate to my local Sheriff's department. Here I fill out my application, submit to fingerprinting, pay the fee ($80-ish here, up to $500 in other states), and authorize a background check (both mental & criminal).
3rd, I wait. A gun permit takes 7 days. For my CCW permit, I waited well over a month. During this time, my records were checked locally, state-wide, & nationally. My fingerprints were submitted to the various databases to see if they appeared in any crimes.
4th, I finally get my CCW permit. I am now legally allowed to carry a concealed handgun. I also have to walk a fine line to keep this privledge. Relatively minor crimes will result in my permit being revoked. My permit is also linked to my license & license plate so that it will pop up if I'm pulled over. Simply forgetting to inform the officer that already knows that I'm a CCW permit holder will result in it being revoked. Getting a DUI or any kind of drug charge will result in my permit being yanked.

So I paid money, submitted to having my life researched, carry more responsibility than the average citizen, & have to be more careful with what I do.

Obviously, I went through all of this just so I can scare you and your friends and have the opportunity to shoot anyone that looks at me wrong.


Stein, when is the last time you saw someone carrying a gun? I'm guessing it's been awhile. I'm also betting that you see at least one person a week (probably much more) that is carrying. The term is "concealed". It's not very common for someone who is concealing to screw up and display. It's also very common for the average sheep like yourself to completely not notice someone who is openly carrying (I know because I used to open carry IN RALEIGH quite often and MAYBE 5% of people noticed).

The "people freaking out when they see it" argument is a good one though. You're a little bit late though. It was one of the arguments used against CCW many years ago and has already been proven false & a non-issue. Good try though.

3/19/2008 11:34:01 PM

Quote :

".and yes, they are the least likely to commit gun violence and are generally very responsible and well trained with their weapons."

i'd say i'm less likely, because i don't own a gun, nor do i plan to in the near future. that said, i have fired both handguns and rifles before and i certainly understand people's desire to carry on campus (with a permit). i do have some concerns over the potential of more guns being on campus and am kinda conflicted on whether this proposal would improve the situation.

3/20/2008 1:46:56 AM

so whats the difference between "more guns on campus" and the same guns on the street or wherever that you walk on a daily basis.

you wouldnt know first of all if anyone even has a gun, and second, like the above posts mentioned, its like not every student will be carrying a gun.

3/20/2008 5:51:25 AM

Btw there seems to be alot of confusiion on self defense in north carolina

According to the court, in order for there to be self defense, the defendant must face imminent danger of death of great bodily harm.Imminent is defined as: “immediate danger, such as must be instantly met, such as cannot be guarded against by calling for the assistance of others or the protection of the law.”

Self defense also relys on approprate levels of force to meet the threat.

I.E. you cant shoot someone who is hitting you or beating you, but you could shoot someone with a knife.

You can only use deadly force to meet deadly force.

3/20/2008 7:09:21 AM

Quote :

"If it is not concealed then they'll be in violation of the law and you've have every damn right to contact the police."

Great, so now instead of using manpower to respond to the crimes that you're all so worried about with you're guns, the police are going to be responding to people who's coat shifts the wrong way.

AWESOME

But really, explain to me the point of showing your holster so you can carry concealed. That's never really made much sense.

Quote :

"Stein, when is the last time you saw someone carrying a gun? "

Considering I work on campus and am here for most of the day, not for a very long time.

And frankly I'd like to keep it that way!

3/20/2008 7:09:24 AM

But Stein, the second amendment trumps your rights to want to feel safe at work.

3/20/2008 7:24:31 AM

Um, yeah, thats pretty much how the Bill of Rights works.

3/20/2008 7:41:56 AM

Quote :

"I.E. you cant shoot someone who is hitting you or beating you, but you could shoot someone with a knife."

i dont know, if someone breaks into my house and is beating the crap out of me and i have a gun, im damn sure thinking he is trying to kill me. and ill shoot.

someone in this thread, or another had the official word. ill try to find it

3/20/2008 7:44:48 AM

im curious to what you anti carrying on campus people think of this.

say they change the law to let CHL holders carry in banks...will this create a rise in bank robberies or gun violence at banks?

3/20/2008 8:55:25 AM