4

2/4/2009 9:09:13 AM

for page 4:

Quote :

"What Michael Phelps Should Have Said Smoking pot shouldn't be a crime. Or the public's business. Radley Balko | February 2, 2009 Dear America, I take it back. I don’t apologize.1 Because you know what? It’s none of your goddamned business. I work my ass off 10 months a year. It’s that hard work that gave you all those gooey feelings of patriotism last summer. If during my brief window of down time I want to relax, enjoy myself, and partake of a substance that’s a hell of a lot less bad for me than alcohol, tobacco, or, frankly, most of the prescription drugs most of you are taking, well, you can spare me the lecture. I put myself through hell. I make my body do things nature never really intended us to endure. All world-class athletes do. We do it because you love to watch us push ourselves as far as we can possibly go. Some of us get hurt. Sometimes permanently. You’re watching the Super Bowl tonight. You’re watching 300 pound men smash each while running at full speed, in full pads. You know what the average life expectancy of an NFL player is? Fifty-five. That’s about 20 years shorter than your average non-NFL player. Yet you watch. And cheer. And you jump up spill your beer when a linebacker lays out a wide receiver on a crossing route across the middle. The harder he gets hit, the louder and more enthusiastically you scream. Yet you all get bent out of shape when Ricky Williams, or I, or Josh Howard2 smoke a little dope to relax. Why? Because the idiots you’ve elected to make your laws have, without a shred of evidence, beat it into your head that smoking marijuana is something akin to drinking antifreeze, and done only by dirty hippies and sex offenders. You’ll have to pardon my cynicism. But I call bullshit. You don’t give a damn about my health. You just get a voyeuristic thrill from watching an elite athlete fall from grace–all the better if you get to exercise a little moral righteousness in the process. And it’s hypocritical righteousness at that, given that 40 percent of you have tried pot at least once in your lives.3 Here’s a crazy thought: If I can smoke a little dope and go on to win 14 Olympic gold medals, maybe pot smokers aren’t doomed to lives of couch surfing and video games, as our moronic government would have us believe.4 In fact, the list of successful pot smokers5 includes not just world class athletes like me, Howard, Williams, and others, it includes Nobel Prize winners, Pulitzer Prize winners, the last three U.S. presidents, several Supreme Court justices, and luminaries and success stories from all sectors of business and the arts, sciences, and humanities. So go ahead. Ban me from the next Olympics. Yank my endorsement deals. Stick your collective noses in the air and get all indignant on me. While you’re at it, keep arresting cancer and AIDS patients who dare to smoke the stuff because it deadens their pain, or enables them to eat. Keep sending in goon squads6 to kick down doors and shoot little old ladies,7 maim innocent toddlers,8 handcuff elderly post-polio patients to their beds9 at gunpoint, and slaughter the family pet.10 Tell you what. I’ll make you a deal. I’ll apologize for smoking pot when every politician who ever did drugs and then voted to uphold or strengthen the drug laws marches his ass off to the nearest federal prison to serve out the sentence he wants to impose on everyone else for committing the same crimes he committed. I’ll apologize when the sons, daughters, and nephews of powerful politicians who get caught possessing or dealing drugs in the frat house or prep school get the same treatment as the no-name, probably black kid caught on the corner or the front stoop doing the same thing. Until then, I for one will have none of it. I smoked pot. I liked it. I’ll probably do it again. I refuse to apologize for it, because by apologizing I help perpetuate this stupid lie, this idea that what someone puts into his own body on his own time is any of the government’s damned business. Or any of yours. I’m not going to bend over and allow myself to be propaganda for this wasteful, ridiculous, immoral war. Go ahead and tear me down if you like. But let’s see you rationalize in your next lame ONDCP commercial11 how the greatest motherfucking swimmer the world has ever seen...is also a proud pot smoker. Yours, Michael Phelps -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2009-02-01-michael-phelps_N.htm 2) http://tinyurl.com/cx28jr (dallasnews.com) 3) http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1821697,00.html 4) http://blog.mpp.org/?p=219 5) http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/07/successful-pot-smokers-lets-make-a-list/ 6) http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476 7) http://www.reason.com/news/show/123632.html 8) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/us/30lima.html 9) http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1002/albom092602.asp 10) http://www.reason.com/blog/show/130714.html 11) http://blog.mpp.org/?p=219"

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 9:13 AM. Reason : ]

2/4/2009 9:10:12 AM

he should have said "look at my face- what did you expect"

2/4/2009 10:44:13 AM

^^teh wins

2/4/2009 10:48:45 AM

winnar

2/4/2009 10:50:52 AM

i thought this was funny:

a local radio personality based in DC is doing a bong exchange outside phelps' house in baltimore tomorrow morning.

http://www.eitmonline.com/home.html

Quote :

"Flounder’s Bong Exchange. This Thursday morning (7:30), bring your old bong water pipe to the intersection of Fell and S. Wolfe streets (Fells Point, Baltimore) and Flounder will replace it with a new one. Need directions? Click here."

2/4/2009 11:51:58 AM

sounds like a police raid to me, "used" bongs are considered paraphanelia

2/4/2009 11:56:31 AM

^^

2/4/2009 11:56:46 AM

yeah, im tempted to go out and just watch the dumb potheads get rounded up.

i do think its hilarious that they are doing it right outside of his house though.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 11:57 AM. Reason : d]

2/4/2009 11:57:10 AM

I'll never understand someone who is against pot. If you don't want to use it, because you are afraid it might mess with your brain chemistry, to each his own. However, any attempt at rationalizing the need for the drug to remain illegal instantly proves that you're an idiot. Unfortunately, I know a few people like this and even after arguing my case with ample evidence to the contrary, they still think pot is dangerous.

Hopeless comes to mind.

Oh, and these same people have no problem going out drinking alcohol, because it's socially acceptable. Morons. They try to cite scientific studies to defend their stance on pot and when that is challenged, they then rely on social constructs as the crux of their argument. Idiots.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM. Reason : -]

2/4/2009 1:31:14 PM

Quote :

"If you don't want to use it, because you are afraid it might mess with your brain chemistry, to each his own."

there is no "might"...it DOES mess with your brain chemistry...i'm not in any way suggesting it does so in a way that is physically harmful to the person, but you'd have to be an idiot to pretend that it doesn't actually screw with your "natural" balances (that's the point, isn't it?)

Quote :

"Oh, and these same people have no problem going out drinking alcohol, because it's socially acceptable."

while i'm sure that some of the people you're referring to (those who think pot is evil or dangerous) engage in drunkenness, not everyone does

i, for one, have never been drunk in my entire life...i've drunk alcohol since i was 10 or 11 (watered wine at dinner), but have never felt the need to get shit-faced (is puking and a hangover REALLY that much fun?)...i've also never smoked pot, mostly for the same reason - i hate to be out of control

this might be my own ignorance, but i'd like to see some DEFINITIVE proof that alcohol IN MODERATION is detrimental to the health of the AVERAGE person...i note these items in capitals because i know for a fact that alcohol in excess is dangerous, and that some people can be physically harmed by drinking any alcohol

alcohol has health benefits...and i know there's debate (and tentative proof) that pot does, too...i don't think pot should be illegal any more than alcohol is, but to pretend that alcohol is bad for you while pot is not is stupid...engaging in just about any activity in excess is bad for you, regardless of what it is

and before people start ranting about how you can't overdose on THC, do recall that you can still cause damage from smoke inhalation...i don't think there's a single thing on this planet that doesn't carry SOME amount of risk, and pot is not an exception

this whole phelps thing is retarded...i don't believe he owes anyone anything and so his actions, which are harming no one, are the business of no one but himself and his dealer

2/4/2009 2:47:36 PM

Quote :

"i'm not in any way suggesting it does so in a way that is physically harmful to the person"

This is my point exactly.

Quote :

"i'd like to see some DEFINITIVE proof that alcohol IN MODERATION is detrimental to the health of the AVERAGE person"

That depends on if an individual is taking any prescription drugs. Pot does not magnify the effects of OTC drugs in any harmful way. Alcohol can, and it some cases, can magnify the effects of certain medications even in moderation to their detriment. That's a fairly simple example of Alcohol being detrimental to an average person, consuming moderate amounts of alcohol, without even needing to provide you with a specific example. I guess you could trifle with what average really means, and say that average people don't take OTC or prescriptions drugs, but I doubt that is unequivically true in this day and age.

Quote :

"but to pretend that alcohol is bad for you while pot is not is stupid"

That depends on what you mean by bad. If you mean harmful, pot can be eaten to acheive the same effects without harming your lungs by smoking it. There is still very little proof of any long-term effects of pot, and even less convincing evidence of it's ability to interact with other drugs in a harmful way. I don't need to tell you of Alcohol's ability to interact with other drugs or it's long-term effects, addictive qualities, etc. As long as you agree that if Alcohol can legal, then pot should be too, we are in agreement. If you were not, then I'd call you an idiot.

2/4/2009 4:00:29 PM

Quote :

"do recall that you can still cause damage from smoke inhalation."

Eh not everyone "smokes" pot though (eat/vaporizer). The thc is the drug, not the leaf. Saying marijuana is harmful because of smoke inhalation can't be compared to alcohols effect on the body. Excessive alcohol is WAAAAY more harmful than excessive THC which hasn't really proven to be harmful at all.

^beat me to it.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2009 4:02:34 PM

Quote :

"That depends on if an individual is taking any prescription drugs. Pot does not magnify the effects of OTC drugs in any harmful way. Alcohol can, and it some cases, can magnify the effects of certain medications even in moderation to their detriment. That's a fairly simple example of Alcohol being detrimental to an average person, consuming moderate amounts of alcohol, without even needing to provide you with a specific example. I guess you could trifle with what average really means, and say that average people don't take OTC or prescriptions drugs, but I doubt that is unequivically true in this day and age."

that's a special case, in my opinion...alcohol is not detrimental by itself, in moderation...you're equating normal alcohol use with danger due to interactions, but that requires an extra step...i'm sure there's some combination somewhere, where the interaction of THC and some other random drug produces undesirable health effects...maybe not, though

yeah, don't get me wrong...i'm not saying pot is evil or comes from the devil's herb garden or anything

Quote :

"Eh not everyone "smokes" pot though (eat/vaporizer)."

truth...and it might be a poor assumption on my part that the "average" pot users smokes it

Quote :

"The thc is the drug, not the leaf. Saying marijuana is harmful because of smoke inhalation can't be compared to alcohols effect on the body."

i see your point...and again, it goes back to assumption that more people smoke it than eat or vaporize...but i suppose my assertion was akin to saying heroin's dangerous because of too many needle pricks

Quote :

"Excessive alcohol is WAAAAY more harmful than excessive THC which hasn't really proven to be harmful at all."

while i don't argue this point, it's not really related to what i was saying...i am opposed to the end result of indulging in pot or excessive alcohol (the loss of functional control)...yes, you can kill yourself with too much alcohol, but those who enjoy it responsibly are not doing damage (see above regarding OTC interaction)...i can drink alcohol without a loss in control (i don't know many people who are safely functional while drunk or stoned, but i know plenty of people who can drive safely with a single beer in them)

2/4/2009 4:17:01 PM

Quote :

"there is no "might"...it DOES mess with your brain chemistry...i'm not in any way suggesting it does so in a way that is physically harmful to the person, but you'd have to be an idiot to pretend that it doesn't actually screw with your "natural" balances (that's the point, isn't it?)"

Your point about using the word "might" is correct -- there's no might about it. However, there is still much debate* about whether the "messing" is good, bad, or both, whether or not it's affect on your "natural" balance is good, bad, or both, and whether or not there even is a "natural" balance. (*I'm not volunteering to debate, I'm just saying.)

Quote :

"that's a special case, in my opinion..."

No, that's reality.

Quote :

"it might be a poor assumption on my part that the "average" pot users smokes it"

Not really -- it's a safe assumption, however it's cost has a lot to do with it. Were it cheaper, more would choose alternatives to smoking. (Smoking gives the biggest "bang for the buck")

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2009 4:19:31 PM

Quote :

"However, there is still much debate* about whether the "messing" is good, bad, or both, whether or not it's affect on your "natural" balance is good, bad, or both, and whether or not there even is a "natural" balance."

oh, agreed...had i to guess, centuries of pot usage without any noticeable negative correlations to health leads me to believe that the "messing" is not really negative, per se...but i'll stand firm in my assertion that the loss of control the user experiences is "negative" when it comes to doing something FUNCTIONAL...does that make sense? i'm saying i don't think pot's going to hurt you...unless you try to DO something while high (it's the same as my assertion regarding alcohol)

Quote :

"No, that's reality."

it's reality that the MAJORITY of people are on prescription (or even OTC) drugs when they drink alcohol? where might this proof be found? no doubt we're a society of magic pills, but you're really saying that more than 50% of the drinkers are on some sort of medication while they drink? i'd really like to see some evidence, because i very much disagree with you

Quote :

"Not really -- it's a safe assumption, however it's cost has a lot to do with it. Were it cheaper, more would choose alternatives to smoking. (Smoking gives the biggest "bang for the buck")"

ah, that may be true...i've never bought pot, nor have i ever perused paraphernalia, so i didn't realize that extracting THC to consume was cost prohibitive (though i can understand that vaporizers might be)

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 4:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2009 4:47:58 PM

Phelps should have started singing:


Herbs the gift, from the Earth,
and what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before u knock it, try it first.
and you'll see it's a blessing and it's not a curse.
If you dont like my fire, then dont come around,
cause i'm gonna burn one down.

2/4/2009 4:56:46 PM

Quote :

"i'm sure there's some combination somewhere, where the interaction of THC and some other random drug produces undesirable health effects...maybe not, though"

When i drink then smoke i get the spins.

2/4/2009 4:57:34 PM

me too cross buzz (when used effectively) is my favorite drug

2/4/2009 4:58:39 PM

Quote :

"(Smoking gives the biggest "bang for the buck")"

Not true. Vaporizer defin. gives you the most THC per weight in marijuana. Learned that at the cannabis college in Amsterdam. heh.

Quote :

"i can drink alcohol without a loss in control (i don't know many people who are safely functional while drunk or stoned, but i know plenty of people who can drive safely with a single beer in them)"

Really? You've got to be kidding. I know plenty of people who study/work while stoned. In fact a friend of mine is a straight A grad student who smokes and studies, have another friend who is top of his class and studies stoned. I doubt you can find as many people who study drunk though.

Many people use marijuana to concentrate on a certain task. Whether it's advanced physics or painting. Works for whatever. Now i'm not saying stoned like can't walk stoned, but like the high most people like to achieve.



In my opinion alcohol affects me waaaaay more than marijuana (true for most people i know too).

Quote :

"ah, that may be true...i've never bought pot, nor have i ever perused paraphernalia, so i didn't realize that extracting THC to consume was cost prohibitive (though i can understand that vaporizers might be)"

Technically once you own a vaporizer then using that is the most profitable (uses the least amount), but because of the high initial cost most people just inhale the tar instead.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 5:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/4/2009 4:59:58 PM

i used to do my CSC Java programs while high my freshman year.

2/5/2009 12:22:37 AM

He's an idiot. No matter your thoughts on marijuana, the fact remains that it is illegal. And someone who stands so much to lose such as Michael Phelps (endorsement money, etc) should fucking know fucking better than to be in a position to be photographed smoking pot.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 10:28:41 PM

^^^Caffeine's a helluva drug.

2/5/2009 10:32:27 PM

Maybe he didn't want to change his beliefs for the man

Maybe he chose not to base his belief system on those given to him, but instead trust himself

Maybe he respects himself more than he respects his bank account



****civil rights fist for Mike Phelps****

2/5/2009 10:37:31 PM

USA Swimming suspended him for three months

2/5/2009 10:37:41 PM

^^ or maybe he is an idiot and just wasn't thinking clearly

See Also: Koren Robinson, Ricky Williams, and Michael Vick

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:40 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 10:39:44 PM

^^^^The picture was taken before Mike Phelps become hot shit IIRC. There's no way he was certain he'd win 8 gold medals and become THE image of the 2008 Olympics.

And people already pointed the ubiquity of cell phones

2/5/2009 10:39:50 PM

Quote :

"See Also: Koren Robinson, Ricky Williams, and Michael Vick"

Eh, I dont know if I would equate drunk driving and dog fighting with hitting a bong.

Ricky Williams does however fit this bill



I think I read today that Kellog dropped Phelps' endorsement
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/05/kellogg.phelps/index.html

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:49 PM. Reason : link]

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:49 PM. Reason : enter]

2/5/2009 10:48:00 PM

Quote :

"The picture was taken before Mike Phelps become hot shit IIRC."

nope

Quote :

"The alleged photo was taken at the University of South Carolina in Columbia, where Phelps was visiting a female student who he was secretly seeing. The paper's anonymous source relates that Phelps partied hard each night he was there, which is not out of keeping with other reports of the Olympian since his swimming triumphs."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/31/michael-phelps-bong-pictu_n_162842.html

Quote :

"Eh, I dont know if I would equate drunk driving and dog fighting with hitting a bong. "

Oh yeah, well Phelps got a DUI back in 2004.

Quote :

"Phelps was arrested for driving under the influence and got 18 months probation in 2004, when he was 19, and he said the latest controversy reminded him of his mother's disapproval after the drunken driving arrest."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,488329,00.html

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 10:48:39 PM

^Ah, Troof

That was pretty inexcusable and was actually proven in a court of law

I guess i just feel this current mess is totally being blown out of proportion by old people and squares

2/5/2009 10:54:33 PM

the more I read up on this, it is actually quite funny. the cops were actually trying to find a way to charge him with marijuana possession based on that fucking picture. you gotta be fucking kidding me

2/5/2009 10:55:45 PM

i think it's dumb how hard they're coming down on him. i mean, pot really?

if he was doing lines of cocaine...then okay, have a shitfest.

but i really don't see the huge deal with this.

2/5/2009 10:56:34 PM

the guy who took the picture should've sold it to michael phelps instead of some geezer in britain, im sure phelps would've dropped $texas to keep it off the streets

2/5/2009 10:57:15 PM

^^because it's illegal

should driving drunk be legal as long as you don't kill anyone?

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:58 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 10:57:31 PM

driving drunk and smoking pot are not the same thing

2/5/2009 11:00:03 PM

agreed, but they are both still illegal

2/5/2009 11:01:45 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/08/national/main654380.shtml



Im not really trying to defend drunk driving but. . . . . .

Quote :

"Prosecutors said Phelps had a .08 blood alcohol content — the legal limit in Maryland. "

But he was underage.

2/5/2009 11:02:39 PM

I heard that they are trying to lower the NC limit to .04

2/5/2009 11:04:18 PM

Quote :

"I also think he's earned the right. And personally, I think pot should be legalized in this country. But it's illegal, and he broke the law. That's what breaks my heart."

every time i have sex, i'm also breaking the law in north carolina.

is that right?

Quote :

"But it bothers me that he makes money off creating the impression that he follows a Disney sports movie lifestyle when in fact he does not."

i'm pretty sure he did nothing to create that impression. it's how the media portrayed him.

from all of the interviews i've read of him, he's just a normal guy. he doesn't try to be someone he's not. and it's fucking retarded to expect him to stop the media from portraying him in a certain light - he did nothing to perpetuate that belief, so it's their own damn fault.

i, for one, wish more "american heroes" were like michael phelps.

holy shit, you mean normal people like you and me that smoke weed and drink can win gold medals in the olympics?!

he gained my respect by taking responsibility for shit. he could have just refuted the identity of the person in the photo. he shouldn't have apologized, but still... he did more than just about any other celebrity has done.

2/5/2009 11:04:19 PM

^^rly?

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:06 PM. Reason : thats what I call a police state]

2/5/2009 11:05:57 PM

^^crimes against nature are rarely, if ever, able to stand up in court. that is, of course, unless you are doing them in public

^ yep, I am trying to find a source now. it could be bullshit, but my lawyer friend made a comment about it at lunch yesterday

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 11:06:23 PM

^^^ most likely

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason : ^^^

2/5/2009 11:08:30 PM

can't find anything about the lowering of the BAC limit in NC. So either it is bullshit, or it is still in the petitioning phase

2/5/2009 11:13:34 PM

Probably trying to sneak it in backdoor style

2/5/2009 11:18:47 PM

2/5/2009 11:20:54 PM

^ lol, that is a great picture. Puffy is all like "what the fuck is this? is this US money? It is missing 2 zeroes. I have never seen this shit before"

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:22 PM. Reason : a]

2/5/2009 11:21:54 PM

Quote :

"should driving drunk be legal as long as you don't kill anyone?"

There's certainly an argument to made for that....

Quote :

"He's an idiot. No matter your thoughts on marijuana, the fact remains that it is illegal. And someone who stands so much to lose such as Michael Phelps (endorsement money, etc) should fucking know fucking better than to be in a position to be photographed smoking pot."

Says you, if you were him.
You're not him.
Your values aren't his values.
Your values aren't better than his values.
As TerdFerguson put it:

Quote :

"Maybe he didn't want to change his beliefs for the man Maybe he chose not to base his belief system on those given to him, but instead trust himself Maybe he respects himself more than he respects his bank account"

Quote :

"or maybe he is an idiot.....Koren Robinson, Ricky Williams, and Michael Vick"

Quote :

"because it's illegal"

Quote :

"but they are both still illegal"

Quote :

"No matter your thoughts on marijuana, the fact remains that it is illegal."

LOL.... (not really)
There's always a "rule of law" troll.

Quote :

"the more I read up on this, it is actually quite funny. the cops were actually trying to find a way to charge him with marijuana possession based on that fucking picture. you gotta be fucking kidding me"

Now that is funny
And speaking of "rule of law", an important principle there is equal (and not selective,) enforcement of laws. Therefore, going after Phelps, but not the many other identifiable pot-smokers...well...

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 12:44 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 12:43:31 AM

On a good note Bama is going to appoint a new head for the DEA so the raids in Cali can stop.

2/6/2009 1:09:37 AM

I love how Willy Nilly calls me a troll in the same post where he quotes all of my posts. IRONY MUCH?

2/6/2009 1:11:54 AM

set em up

2/6/2009 1:12:39 AM