^^i see what you're saying but in the long run/big picture, it is the caloric expenditure of lifting that I'm aiming for

sure I burn ~250 cals in that 1hr of HIT vs the 600 I could burn doing an elliptical, but that 250 doesn't just stop there after HIT. In the long run that 250 will translate into more than 600 as the body recovers etc whereas the 600 on the elliptical more or less stops there. And yes, if I treated HIIT cardio like I treat my HIT, I suppose it could have similar post workout caloric expenditure, but that's not as fun as lifting weights.

And you're right, diet + willpower are the most important factors to any weight loss program, I do lift to preserve my muscle mass while cutting.

You're likely much more knowledgeable in this subject than I, so I do take what you say seriously. I've only been "seriously", if you want to call it that, weight training and focusing on diet for 9 months now and this is what I've experienced, so I'm no expert in the slightest. Just my broscience. I'm doing my best to avoid the xfit vs classic topic too, my only comment is: I don't know "squat" about it.

6/11/2009 9:09:08 AM

Quote :

"Do you not think Crossfit will make you stronger? Do you not think it will make you faster? Do you not think that being stronger and faster will make you better at almost any sport you might decide to play? "

I never said that it wouldn't make you stronger or faster. I only stated that it is by no means superior to other forms of training for sports or overall fitness. the original poster tried to imply that crossfit was a better program for making people better athletes, and that is complete bullshit.

I think that Crossfit does offer an advantage over other programs, but that advantage seems to be missed on a lot of people. The program forces you to be conscious of the amount of time it takes you to get through a workout, with many workouts tracking your progress by how fast you can use the same weights and reps in a given workout. We're trying to increase our power output, and power is energy / time. If the energy stays the same and the time decreases, we made gains. Programs that focus on the poundage and reps you're lifting alone usually don't go into great detail about the rest intervals you have between sets. 5x5 training, for example, is heavily dependent on how long of a rest period you take between sets. If a person wants to see big gains in their numbers, they may mistakenly start taking longer pauses between sets to try to increase their numbers. The gains look more impressive than they should, because the numbers went up (increase in energy expenditure). Unfortunately, the time in creased as well. The net result may be no increase in power output.

I, personally, would combine a HIT weightlifting program with both HIIT and long low-intensity cardio sessions if I was trying to suggest a program to a person that was struggling with maintaining proper rest periods yet wanted well rounded fitness.

6/11/2009 9:22:34 AM

I think we're on the same page and we're just arguing minor details to be honest. I still don't get how you took this:

Quote :

"the original poster tried to imply that crossfit was a better program for making people better athletes, and that is complete bullshit."

from this:

Quote :

"However, if you want a very broad fitness that can be translated into a lot of sports Crossfit is great."

but it's really not worth arguing any further.

6/11/2009 9:35:28 AM

I decided to bite the bullet and continue my squats. I have a serious love hate relation with squats

6/18/2009 4:38:06 PM

I did squats last night for the first time in the past 3 months.
I couldn't even do 135x12
Couldn't go low either
help

6/19/2009 3:15:23 AM

Squat til you puke!

6/20/2009 4:50:47 PM

I love when you do squats for the first time after a long lapse, and your legs are too sore to even walk down steps.....awesome

6/20/2009 6:10:02 PM

Repub, I might be in a similar situation soon.... I'm pretty sure I broke my big toe today

Eiter way, It's going to be upper body only work for a few weeks

6/20/2009 7:44:45 PM

wear jorts!

found 30 lbs i didn't know i had legally!

-if the bar ain't bendin', you're just pretendin'

7/2/2009 4:05:46 PM

Quote :

"if the bar ain't bendin', you're just pretendin'"

how much weight does it take to flex the bar? I've never done any real squats... just a leg press. I can do over 500 pounds on a leg press, but probably not nearly that in real squats.

7/2/2009 5:15:15 PM

around 365 it will have a noticeable U. anything over 405 will be blatently obvious.

7/2/2009 5:27:32 PM

it depends on the bar. A Texas bar doesn't have any noticeable flex in it at 500lbs.

7/2/2009 6:05:57 PM

I was always afraid to do squats because I'm worried I'll lose my balance and drop a few hundred pounds on myself.

7/2/2009 9:03:08 PM

i started with low weight on the smith machine just to get the whole balance/form thing started. and there are plenty of cage things you can do them in that don't limit your form like the smith machine does but will still catch it if you drop the weight.

pretty sure you knew that though

random google pic:



[Edited on July 2, 2009 at 9:07 PM. Reason : asf]

7/2/2009 9:06:26 PM

the bars in the old carmichael racks bend at anything over 225, I've loaded the bars in the cages at the rec center with 405 and not noticed any bending.

7/2/2009 9:23:32 PM

^^good form!

only pointers i would give would be to tighten up your back and to make sure you don't point your knees inward on the upward tilt. but, you may have those covered


superb form. head up, knees out, hips back. textbook.

................so long as the weight is on your heels and you are going down about another 4 inches. otherwise, this is about as good as you can hope for with 135.

[Edited on July 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2009 11:45:05 PM

you're commenting on a random google image.

7/3/2009 12:09:44 AM

lol esp considering they're doing 135. Hell I did that on my first set ever.

7/3/2009 12:21:18 AM

i take my past comment back. looking at that picture sober, i notice that the knees are too far forward. sometimes you shouldn't post when you're drunk, it's not really a good idea. this is a much better picture of form when squatting.

7/3/2009 4:45:03 PM

where are the pictures of you squatting then?

7/3/2009 7:08:40 PM

crossfit isnt designed to make you an elite lifter or an elite runner or put you an elite aerobic shape.

it is designed to constantly confuse your muscles into gain. it also pushes the shit out of you. it has given me a huge mental advantage when I go out to play basketball or football or whatever with the guys. none of them can hang with me. it has broken me through the wall that was against for 2 years.

some of you are obviously very experienced heavy lifters and I wager I was probably in the same place as you not long ago...but I started doing crossfit 8 months ago and I am now honestly in the best shape of my life. I feel like crossfit will serve me well the rest of life, keeping me well-rounded in all aspects of my exercise.

fwiw.

7/3/2009 7:44:15 PM

i dont want to go back in the thread, but why the hell is crossfit even being compared to heavy lifting? Seems like two things for people with completely different goals

7/3/2009 8:23:01 PM

FWIW, I asked Omar to bttt the most recent Xfit thread so we could keep it separate.


Good advice in this thread though. I Crossfit as much as I can with the equipment I've got and I appreciate the advice from focused lifters. Good form is good form no-matter what program you're working.

7/3/2009 9:10:29 PM

Quote :

"it is designed to constantly confuse your muscles into gain."

muscles don't get confused into making gains. your nervous system will adapt quickly to new training regiments and make you feel stronger immediately after you change up your program, but that doesn't translate into muscle gains necessarily.

even if it did, that not what crossfit is trying to do at all. The program is designed to increase all levels of fitness - cardiovascular and respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy. It makes you better at these in as short a period of time as possible. While it improves your fitness levels in all realms, the progam will not make you great in any of them. You can pick any one of those fitness goals and find another fitness activity that will work much better than crossfit does to reach that goal. However, most people don't have enough available time in their lives to do weight training, sprinting, endurance training, stretching, sports, etc.

7/3/2009 9:45:17 PM

the random google pic is all wrong

- tumbs around bar
- wrists flexed
- elbows out of position
- looking up (worst part?)
- too wide
- feet not angled enough
- back angle too steep (looking up doesn't help)
- knees too far forward
- about 6 inches shy from parallel (can't get there with his set up)
- back not tight

the bar MIGHT be in the right position (maybe high), but that's about it

[Edited on July 5, 2009 at 6:44 PM. Reason : g]

7/5/2009 6:43:34 PM

Quote :

"the random google pic is all wrong - tumbs around bar - wrists flexed - elbows out of position - looking up (worst part?) - too wide - feet not angled enough - back angle too steep (looking up doesn't help) - knees too far forward - about 6 inches shy from parallel (can't get there with his set up) - back not tight the bar MIGHT be in the right position (maybe high), but that's about it"

mr know it all must be a supporter of ONLY lifting like a powerlifter. suppose you were lifting like an olypic lifter.

then you would want an upright back, knees forward, close stance with feet in angle of snatch or clean and jerk.

you're not trying to push your hips back, so the bar should be high and why would you ever fucking look up? always look forward.

before dispensing your opinions on only one way to squat, you should stop to think that there are more than one ways to do it.

7/5/2009 7:40:17 PM

Quote :

"- tumbs around bar - wrists flexed"

what's wrong with that? If you're squeezing your shoulder blades in correctly and building enough of a platform, then your wrists aren't even supporting the weight of the bar.

commenting on the bar being high is dumb though. the only advantage of low bar squatting is for getting big numbers due to increased leverage and more glute emphasis. A lot of powerlifters start experiencing serious joint pains when they first make the switch to low bar squatting because of the increased flexibility demands that low-bar squatting requires from the shoulders and elbows. Besides, the low bar position forces you to lean further forward and prevents you from squatting rock bottom. Occasionally I'll get the urge to squat to a 10-12" box, and there's no way I could do that with the bar anywhere other than on top of my shoulder blades.

7/5/2009 8:32:10 PM

^good points.

I agree with the flexibility issue. I typically put the bar as low as I can for big numbers, but since I squat only once a week (box squats) and every third or fourth heavy lower body day, I like to experiment with the box squat and vary my bar height and stance.

When I go heavy, it's all about pushing the hips back and having the bar low, making sure I am flexible enough to get to parallel and getting out of the hole.

Otherwise, different strokes for different folks. The only problem I have is when somebody doesn't get to parallel. Your knees are not brakes, but if you use them as such, they will wear out like brakes do.

If I am losing strength by wrapping my thumbs, so be it. I keep my back tight and try to bend the bar around my back which I cannot do without using a traditional grip. Seems my numbers are not quite Wetside elite, but I never have to appologize for the numbers I put up.

7/6/2009 8:08:21 AM

What kind of numbers do you guys usually do?

7/6/2009 8:25:33 AM

my goal is to go 14 in the hole.

7/6/2009 8:35:08 AM

I usually do about 4 warmup sets and then do 100%, 90%, 85%, 80% of my 10 rep max. Afterwards, I'll switch to front squats or go to the basketball court and do walking lunges.

Right now, my 10 rep max is around 425, so my sets will go 425, 385, 365, 335.

7/6/2009 9:12:01 AM

^using the exrx calculator, we are very close in 1rm.

by close i mean around 10%

[Edited on July 6, 2009 at 9:17 AM. Reason : .]

7/6/2009 9:15:37 AM

I have no idea what my one rep max is for squats. I haven't maxed out on squats in 2 years, and I'm sure my numbers would be pathetic since I only train in the 10-12 rep range. I've never gone any heavier than 495x3. I used to max out on deadlifts on the regular, but I don't even pull anymore.

I would make a shitty powerlifter, since my 1RM for bench is within 80% of my 1RM for squats and deadlifts. It doesn't help to have big numbers with the muscle group that dose 1/3 of the total and have mediocre numbers with the group that does 2/3 of the total.

7/6/2009 9:52:08 AM

those numbers are nothing to sneeze at. at least you do them. better than half of the twigs on here that run to the hip sled or the leg extension

7/6/2009 11:21:13 AM

Quote :

" mr know it all must be a supporter of ONLY lifting like a powerlifter. suppose you were lifting like an olypic lifter. then you would want an upright back, knees forward, close stance with feet in angle of snatch or clean and jerk. you're not trying to push your hips back, so the bar should be high and why would you ever fucking look up? always look forward. before dispensing your opinions on only one way to squat, you should stop to think that there are more than one ways to do it."

you misread a bit of what i typed and the picture would still be wrong for high bar or "olypic" squats

slow down on the interwebs rage next time

7/7/2009 8:27:39 AM

Quote :

"the picture would still be wrong for high bar or "olypic" squats"

the fuck it is.

7/7/2009 8:59:36 AM

This thread makes me sad

It's going to be atleast a month before I can even do bw squats...

7/7/2009 3:00:44 PM

7/9/2009 12:35:51 PM

he should be doing those in the rack. i somehow doubt he can get that 495 without a spot.

7/9/2009 12:58:35 PM

I would never want to look roided out like that.

7/9/2009 1:30:53 PM

I would never want to have a wedgie like that.

I would, however, prefer to lift outside the cage.

7/9/2009 2:50:09 PM

i would rather lift in a big, roomy power rack like the ones at carmichael


that one in the picture is too small for my tastes (and for that guy)

7/9/2009 4:10:36 PM

He's not lifting in it maximus

7/9/2009 5:48:54 PM

Im out for 3 maybe 4 weeks thanks to a pec injury

7/9/2009 6:41:23 PM

Squirts, again

7/9/2009 6:44:43 PM

^^^i know this. that's why it's racked on the outside. i was just saying............

7/10/2009 10:27:16 AM