Quote :

"ahahahaha, I just heard her resignation described as, 'an M.C. Escher painting of a speech.'"

JCASHFAN

Uh-oh, somebody's been watching the O'Reilly. I'm gonna tell it!

I saw that comment, too--it was a very apt description. Palin's speech was a rambling and difficult to follow spectacle, but it had a sort of strange, off-kilter beauty.

Look, I'll come clean with you about Palin. I thought she was a bold choice by McCain at a time when his campaign desperately needed something, anything--bold or otherwise--to happen.

If you'll remember, McCain shot ahead in the polls after the Palin pick, and she brought a new energy to the campaign and a new style to national politics. Hell, even Hillary Clinton praised her as an "important new voice" on the national stage.

BUT the McCain people fucked up her rollout; there were a number of missteps made by the McCain-Palin campaign--several of which were made by Palin herself; and McCain-Palin was fighting an uphill battle against the destiny of Obama (Biden was really an afterthought). Many people just wanted change and they couldn't vote for McCain because he was seen as an extension or continuation of Bush, the damaged goods--no matter that the change to Obama was not necessarily going to be improvement.

The left-wing attack machine went into overdrive when they saw "change" slipping away. And the vicious attacks on Palin and her family haven't stopped since.

For my part, I simply like to (try to) provide some balance when a howling pack of hyenas act as if Palin is the dumbest thing since dirt. I don't recall Palin ever saying she was a genius, but if you just take one look at the current VP, Joe Biden, The Human Gaffe Machine, you'll see a copious amount of evidence that one doesn't have to be a genius to hold high office.

7/10/2009 12:38:18 AM

palin is the howard dean of the republican party. completely unelectable.

i can't believe people are still talking about 2012.

even if she made it through the primaries [which she wouldn't], she'd get slaughtered in the general election. i don't see see that changing...but what do i know.



and palin might have breathed some life into mccain's campaign...but once she opened her mouth that life got sucked right out. and attacks are unfortunately part of the game. don't act like this is new territory. ever since there's been politics, there's been personal attacks. i don't see that changing either.

7/10/2009 12:46:26 AM

yeah, but we usually left the family out of it, for the most part. Hell, fucking abc was accusing Palin of faking a baby 2 days in to it for crying out loud.

7/10/2009 1:01:32 AM

^^ I don't disagree with a lot of that. And Palin's certainly not my candidate for 2012--in fact, the entire field looks pretty bleak to me.

And you're right, attacks are part of the game in politics. I just don't see Biden getting nearly as much shit as he should relative to his continual fuckups--of one degree or another. I mean, Biden's got a record of plagiarism, for example, dating back to his college days--he ain't the sharpest tack in the box, either, you know?

^ Yeah, and I wish someone would define "parading" as it relates to Palin and her children--"they" always accuse her of parading her children around. Is Obama parading his children around at the G8?

WHITE HOUSE NOTEBOOK: Sasha as Agent 99? - AP





http://tinyurl.com/kr5u2t

[Edited on July 10, 2009 at 1:18 AM. Reason : ^]

7/10/2009 1:06:42 AM

^ letterman cracking a joke about Palin's kids doesn't constitute the media attacking her family. When Howard Dean's kid got busted for pot, all the comedians made fun of that too.

The media for the most part has left Palin's family alone. When Bristol Palin goes on news programs though, she's fair game for questioning and scrutiny.

As far as I know, neither Sasha nor Malia have been doing rounds on cable news.

[Edited on July 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ]

7/10/2009 10:57:36 AM

Quote :

"If you'll remember, McCain shot ahead in the polls after the Palin pick, and she brought a new energy to the campaign and a new style to national politics. Hell, even Hillary Clinton praised her as an "important new voice" on the national stage. BUT the McCain people fucked up her rollout; there were a number of missteps made by the McCain"

then people realized what an idiot crazy right-wing moonbat she was

^ i would argue that her family is not off limits. She poses herself as a champion of "conservative chrisitian values", abstience only education, and the likes; yet her 16 yr old daughter is out getting knocked up by a self described "fucking redneck"

7/10/2009 11:51:25 AM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124716984620819351.html

noonan wrecks that shit. i love how she goes through every supporters reasons for liking her and telling why they are dumb.

7/10/2009 1:24:05 PM

The only flaw in her approach is using logic against Palin supporters.

7/10/2009 1:50:55 PM

Quote :

"letterman cracking a joke about Palin's kids doesn't constitute the media attacking her family. When Howard Dean's kid got busted for pot, all the comedians made fun of that too. The media for the most part has left Palin's family alone. When Bristol Palin goes on news programs though, she's fair game for questioning and scrutiny. As far as I know, neither Sasha nor Malia have been doing rounds on cable news."

moron

Can you point out where I referred to Letterman? I was referring to political pundits and others in the news media.

Nice red herring, though. For one who's always bitiching about logic, you commit more logical fallacies here than just about anyone.

The following are just a few examples:

Quote :

"This is a woman who took her children to the convention and paraded them on the stage. . . ."

--Sally Quinn, Washington Post journalist and author

http://tinyurl.com/nazhr2

Quote :

"Palin is the one who CHOSE to put her family forward, who PARADED her kids, including an unwed teen, on the national stage."

--Susan Toepfer, former editor of OK! magazine and blogger for True/Slant

http://trueslant.com/susantoepfer/2009/06/12/sarah-palin-so-wrong-on-so-many-levels/

Quote :

"Despite her supposed 'Family Value'" credentials, she and her husband Todd are being just as exploitative of her teenage daughter, Bristol, as any of these celebrity parents have been. Actually, even more so."

-- Bonnie Fuller, CHECK WIT HUFFPO

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bonnie-fuller/sarah-palin-she-has-chose_b_123282.html

And many more.

And the Obama children actually went on Access Hollywood, which no doubt reaches even more people than "cable news":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWkPGJmZtA

And Malia Obama's peace shirt sent out a message to the world that reached many more people than cable news:



BTW, would you be so approving if a shirt such as this had been worn?

7/10/2009 8:17:17 PM

Quote :

"And Malia Obama's peace shirt sent out a message to the world that reached many more people than cable news"

You're objecting to the peace symbol? What is wrong with you?

7/10/2009 8:22:07 PM

^ I indicated that the shirt at issue sent out a message.

7/10/2009 8:51:01 PM

So you dislike shirts that send out messages of any kind?

7/11/2009 12:42:23 AM

he's hooksaw so he's not actually "taking a stance" just "informing" us

7/11/2009 12:54:21 AM

it is disgusting talking to ppl that literally think there won't even be another election ever again in the US

7/11/2009 1:08:45 AM

Quote :

"he ain't the sharpest tack in the box, either, you know"

Fair enough, he's a terrible politician, but ... he's better than her.

Peggy Noonan did a great job of ripping Palin a new asshole today:

Quote :

""Now she can prepare herself for higher office by studying up, reading in, boning up on the issues." Mrs. Palin's supporters have been ordering her to spend the next two years reflecting and pondering. But she is a ponder-free zone. She can memorize the names of the presidents of Pakistan, but she is not going to be able to know how to think about Pakistan. Why do her supporters not see this? "

(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124716984620819351.html)

Sarah Palin represents the paranoid-delusional-schizophrenic wing of the GOP. Biden, on the other hand, represents the clubby-unserious-flighty wing of the Democratic party (aka the Democratic party itself, as it is today).

We deserve better than either.

7/11/2009 1:19:02 AM

Quote :

"Sarah Palin represents the paranoid-delusional-schizophrenic wing of the GOP"

aka "the base"

the base man. like the foundation.

7/11/2009 1:24:36 AM

^^

Noonan makes a very good point at the conclusion, by the way:

Quote :

"The era we face, that is soon upon us, will require a great deal from our leaders. They had better be sturdy. They will have to be gifted. There will be many who cannot, and should not, make the cut. Now is the time to look for those who can. And so the Republican Party should get serious, as serious as the age, because that is what a grown-up, responsible party—a party that deserves to lead—would do."

I actually think Obama is sturdy and gifted, he's just poisoned with a maladjusted ideology and he has to appease its staunchest adherents (Pelosi, in particular). He's probably the right president, but with the wrong Congress. 2010 will determine where we go from here -- the shit in this country is more or less in the fan.

7/11/2009 1:34:00 AM

Victor David Hanson on bashing Sarah...

Quote :

"While we rightly argue that the Sarahs of the world, if they are to be taken seriously as leaders, must read and study more, why do we not also suggest that the Baracks of the world could do a little more chain-sawing, run a coffee shop for a summer, or drive a Winnebago cross-country? (Who knows, he might meet a fellow woodcutter who knew there were 50 states or that it was dumb to make fun of the Special Olympics.) After all, a lot of geniuses are now calling for a "second stimulus" to borrow another trillion or so still, but I don't think they come from Wasilla. So I am afraid right now, but not of Sarah Palin."

7/11/2009 9:50:12 AM

Quote :

"why do we not also suggest that the Baracks of the world could do a little more chain-sawing, run a coffee shop for a summer, or drive a Winnebago cross-country?"

you actually buy this bullshit? You accept the "she's just like me!" and "she's a hockey-mom, just like me!" and "boy, i'd love to have a beer with him!" rhetoric?

Not everybody can grow up in the sticks. In fact, the large majority of people in the country are city or suburban dwellers (like Obama), despite the constant clamoring about "small town folks" and their supposed superior values.

7/11/2009 9:59:05 AM

^^ that's one of the dumbest things i've ever read

7/11/2009 12:02:25 PM

More Noonan, counter what EarthDogg just posted from Hanson:

Quote :

"To wit, "I love her because she's so working-class." This is a favorite of some party intellectuals. She is not working class, never was, and even she, avid claimer of advantage that she is, never claimed to be and just lets others say it. Her father was a teacher and school track coach, her mother the school secretary. They were middle-class figures of respect, stability and local status. I think intellectuals call her working-class because they see the makeup, the hair, the heels and the sleds and think they're working class "tropes." Because, you know, that's what they teach in "Ways of the Working Class" at Yale and Dartmouth. What she is, is a seemingly very nice middle-class girl with ambition, appetite and no sense of personal limits."

She's so dead on, especially in this case: Hanson himself has a Ph.D. from an elite school, Stanford, and was a long-time professor (now a fellow at an institutional think tank). I mean, seriously -- this guy is a long-time classics professor and he's calling out Barack Obama for not running a coffee shop.

Look, I don't want Joe Average running the country. Look at John McCain -- a man of tremendous and extraordinary courage, so much so we consider him Presidential. He was tortured in the most gruesome ways for years, he has a long and storied Senate career. And this guy was to be balanced out by a woman whose appeal is that she ran a coffee shop?

Does a Second Stimulus make sense? No. Neither does half of what comes out of this woman's mouth. The way to counter dumb ideas and bad leadership is with brilliant, courageous leadership. You'd think the GO-fucking-P would figure this out.

7/11/2009 4:59:12 PM

chain sawing?

who the fuck has a chain saw?

7/11/2009 5:01:23 PM

Quote :

"despite the constant clamoring about "small town folks" and their supposed superior value"

u can't run a country by values

Quote :

"that's one of the dumbest things i've ever read"

no shit.

why the would someone post that garbage? oh yeah, its a crazy.

7/11/2009 5:20:37 PM

Quote :

"Hanson himself has a Ph.D. from an elite school"

He also runs his own farm. But don't that get in the way of your argument.

Cut him some slack. Hanson isn't a Palin apologist. He acknowledges her shortcomings:

Quote :

"On the other hand, a mother of five, knee-deep in local politics, without money and leisure, is not going to be reading Gibbon for perspective, or spending the afternoon perusing Foreign Affairs. Nor is she going to remember a quip that her Prof at the Kennedy school once offered years ago. Nor is she going to recall clever repartee at a Georgetown dinner party from one grandee to another."

He offers her some advice:

Quote :

"But if, a big if, she decides to become a national political figure, Palin should use these next few years (in addition to making some money to support her family) to travel and read widely in the manner that a Reagan did in his wilderness period. She has natural intelligence and is curious. I think most would like to see her do another Couric interview five years from now after she had time to size up DC insiders, meet more politicians, lecture in front of hostile audiences — and just read and reflect. At fifty-five she could become a formidable candidate, given her natural charisma and authentic middle-class persona."

Quote :

" The way to counter dumb ideas and bad leadership is with brilliant, courageous leadership. "

OK. Throw out Palin and Obama. Who meets your criteria?

7/11/2009 10:56:33 PM

I can slum it too

7/12/2009 12:22:47 AM

Quote :

"yeah, but we usually left the family out of it, for the most part."

Are you fucking serious? Families have always been targets in this country. All the way back to our first elections there are examples of people writing and saying really despicable things about their opponents' families. Andrew Jackson leaps to mind; he almost shot people over things that were said about his wife during his campaign (and blamed the attacks, in part, for her death).

And members of Palin's own party had no problem whatsoever using John McCain's adopted Bangladeshi daughter as subject for some truly repugnant appeals to racism.

I would accuse you of being naive, but that's not the case. You're indignant when the attacks are designed to denigrate a conservative. If there were some question as to Michelle Obama faking a baby I've got money that says you'd be all over it like stupid on this forum.

7/12/2009 1:17:16 AM

I remember Chelsea Clinton being called a dog quite often as a little kid.

7/12/2009 2:43:02 AM

Quote :

"I actually think Obama is sturdy and gifted, he's just poisoned with a maladjusted ideology and he has to appease its staunchest adherents (Pelosi, in particular)."

on the money

too many people in our country view the role of the president the analogue of a Direct Ruler elected for a limited term. The buck does not really stop with Obama. Essentially he is the figure head of a coalition of powerful politicians and behind the scenes power brokers. As much as the right wants to act like Obama is out to destroy America this is hardly the case since the money and power brokers of the left leaning portion of our country put him in the white house. While he does hold certain authority the president must not teeter so far from the "expected line" else he'll quickly dissolve into lame duck status until he gets voted out 2012.

I view a lot of the bad things going on right now in our country at fault due to the liberal democratic congress led by nutbat Pelosi. I said it back in November but i'd much rather have the progressive leftist Obama in the white house checked though by a fiscal conservative right leaning republican congress. The two combined as such in my opinion makes for the best combination.

7/12/2009 3:09:29 AM

Quote :

"She has natural intelligence and is curious."

could've fooled the fuck out of me.

7/12/2009 11:36:19 AM

She's likely the most incurious politician on the national stage in a very long time.

7/12/2009 11:39:26 AM

Quote :

"I view a lot of the bad things going on right now in our country at fault due to the liberal democratic congress led by nutbat Pelosi."

i'd be interested to hear what of the current problems they caused. and if you say "fannie and freddie" i swear to god. . .

7/12/2009 11:41:14 AM

yeah, i've heard that argument before too. "Things were going so good until the 2006 election when the Dems took over, then when they took power in 2007 it all went to shit!!"

7/12/2009 12:05:25 PM

Quote :

"On a hunch, I reviewed online lists of all the men and women who’ve been elected governor of their state since the year 1900. Pored over them for a few hours. Over 1200 politicians have taken that first-term oath of office. Some soon died in office. Many resigned to accept other positions in government, including Spiro Agnew who was “tapped” by Nixon after being the Governor of Maryland for about five minutes. On a handful of occasions, a first-termer was dragged off to the slammer or impeached. One was incapacitated by a nervous breakdown and one left just as impeachment came knocking on his door. So—how many out of over 1200 just up and quit before the end of their term? Three: Jim McGreevy, Eliot Spitzer and Sarah Palin."

http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/09/first-term-quitters-hall-of-fame/

7/12/2009 12:06:38 PM

i'm not even sure I agree with that list..... even McGreevy and Spitzer had compelling reasons to quit, with breaking or upcoming personal scandals. It appears, so far, that Palin was the only one that quit just for the sake of quitting.

7/12/2009 12:21:23 PM

^hold that thought

7/12/2009 12:51:51 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090712/ap_on_re_us/us_palin

Quote :

"WASHINGTON – Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin says she is not only staying in politics once she leaves the governor's office later this month, she's jumping right back into the national fray. Palin tells the Washington Times for a Sunday story that she is eager to campaign for Republicans and independents and even Democrats who share her views on limited government, national defense and energy independence. Palin says that Americans are so tired of partisan politics that not even her 20-year-old son is a Republican. Like his father, he is registered as "nonpartisan" in Alaska. Palin announced last week that she will leave the governor's office a year and a half before her first term is to end. She tells the Washington Times that she and her family had been thinking about her stepping down for months."

lmao

7/12/2009 1:23:33 PM

except taht apparently republicans in contested races don't want her anywhere near them.

7/12/2009 1:35:41 PM

Quote :

"He also runs his own farm. But don't that get in the way of your argument."

Well, so what? It doesn't affect my argument one bit. He's an elite who has a nutty obsession with running his own farm and being close to the land. That puts him in exactly the same league with any number of crazy liberals and even green activists around here. I still don't believe for a second he's in tune with "authentic" America. He's just projecting his own brand of reverse snobbery which, by the way, is a big business here in the Golden State.

Quote :

"He offers her some advice"

Well, I won't harp on Noonan again, even though she addresses exactly that "advice." Actually the Hoover institution has a great piece on Hanson where he offers this advice for Michael Moore:

Quote :

"“Do you know why Michael Moore doesn’t like people filming him when he speaks?” he asks, summoning a name that appears often in his writing. “It’s because he can’t finish a sentence. Because he’s uneducated, and that’s exactly how he sounds. I saw him speak on C-SPAN once and it went mostly like this: ‘You know, like, they’re coming to get—you know—like you and you. For the army. And it’s for oil, man. You know. Bush and Cheney.’ And that was the range of his delivery. We apparently no longer apply any litmus tests to public figures who assume positions of wisdom. We no longer ask, ‘Is the man educated? Does he speak well? Is he a man of honor who speaks the truth?’ . . . There is only one way to be educated. Read narrative history, read the great novels, read philosophy, learn foreign languages. But we’ve forgotten all that in our therapeutic culture.”"

(http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/2993266.html)

You almost can't make this shit up...but I do admire his high standard for how educated public figures must be. One presumes it applies equally to Sarah Palin, who doesn't exactly speak well.

OK, you might have your head about this far up Hanson's ass, but I'll pose a question for the rest of the readers here: who here really thinks Sarah Palin is going to take her time off to read the Western canon and learn a foreign language? Seriously?

Quote :

"Throw out Palin and Obama."

No. Throw out Palin. The tough times, by the way, are now, not five years from now after Palin finishes reading the Western canon and learning Mandarin.

Personally I think we have a wonderful system of checks and balances, and the path forward is for the Republican leadership to field a wide range of very credible individuals in 2010 to make it work.

[Edited on July 12, 2009 at 1:56 PM. Reason : foo]

7/12/2009 1:52:46 PM

I can't let this one go ... it's too rich:

Quote :

"Hanson isn't a Palin apologist. He acknowledges her shortcomings"

Dude, this guy has written so much fawning bullshit about her, it's almost unbelievable. Google is your friend. He acknowledges her shortcomings only to the extent he can make them seem like counterbalances to some cultural bogeymen:

Quote :

"So along comes someone (unlike Biden's vastly inflated middle-class biography) who really is from the working class. She likes it—and finds snowmobiling, hunting, fishing and living in small-town America not as a wasteful use of carbon-emitting fuels, cruelty to animals, gratuitous depletion of our resources, or proof of parochial yokelism. Instead it is a life of action in an often harsh natural landscape, where physical strength is married to intelligence to bring us food, fuel, and progress. Palin's symbolism is the antithesis of the metrosexual wind- or body- surfing politican, and hair-plugged, neurotic TV pundit So at this time, right now, millions apparently like Palin's atypical 19th-century profile. Again, it's a pleasant change of pace from Harvard Law School, DC politics, "community organizing" and the can't-do, 'they raised the bar on me' collective complaint."

(http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGYzNzcwNTU2MWYzNDFjMjc3NjdlYjA1MDU4ZmJkZDA=)

Quote :

"I am not calling for yokelism, or a proponent of false-populism. Rather, I wish to remind everyone that there are two fonts of wisdom: formal education, and the tragic world of physical challenge and ordeal. Both are necessary to be broadly educated. Familiarity with Proust or Kant is impressive, but not more impressive than the ability to wire your house or unclog the labyrinth of pipes beneath it. In this regard, I think Palin can speak, and reason, and navigate with bureaucrats and lawyers as well as can Obama; but he surely cannot understand hunters, and mechanics and carpenters like she can. And a Putin or a Chavez or a Wall-Street speculator that runs a leverage brokerage house is more a hunter than a professor or community organizer. Harvard Law School is not as valuable a touchstone to human nature as raising five children in Alaska while going toe-to-toe with pretty tough, hard-nose Alaskan males."

(http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson091908.html)

Keep in mind this is the same guy who bashed Moore for not having read enough narrative history. Oh, but Palin can go toe-to-toe with bureaucrats and lawyers "as well as" Obama, who has a degree from Harvard.

And he's not an apologist? He's deified her. He made her the symbol of rugged Americanism; and Noonan's point, of course, is that she enjoys American middle class privilege by any reasonable definition.

Like I said, he's nuts. I know his type. They literally live all around me -- the ascetic elitists who think there's some magic in going back to the land. Maybe he's the conservative strain of that, but it's the same disease.

7/12/2009 2:59:48 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/12/politics/main5153575.shtml?tag=stack

Quote :

"WASHINGTON, July 12, 2009 Palin: I'm Not Leaving Politics McCain Says His Former Running Mate Simply "Changed Her Priorities" in Resigning as Alaska's Governor (AP) Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin said she's not only staying involved in national politics, but she plans to jump back into the national scrum when she leaves office at the end of the month. The former Republican vice presidential nominee said she plans to write a book, campaign for political candidates from coast to coast - even Democrats who share her views on limited government, national defense and energy independence - and build a right-of-center coalition. "I will go around the country on behalf of candidates who believe in the right things, regardless of their party label or affiliation," she said during an interview published Sunday in The Washington Times. Palin shocked critics and allies alike when she announced on July 3 that she would leave the governor's office while in the middle of her first term. The governor chose not to seek re-election and suggested it was unfair to hold onto the office as a lame duck. Instead, she will step down July 26 and pursue a national profile. She has not said whether she is building toward a presidential campaign for 2012. Republican Women Federated of Simi Valley announced Palin was scheduled to speak to the group's private gala on Aug. 8 at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California. The event - reporters will not be allowed to attend - will take place in an airplane hangar that houses a retired presidential aircraft Air Force One and will stir more questions about her curious resignation. "

I think the symbolism of staying on the national stage (while getting out of politics to be with her family) around presidential symbols & Ronald Reagan symbols means she is leaning towards a run for president. You can always tell when a republican wants to be president if they can't stop saying Ronald Reagan.

Quote :

" McCain said he believes Palin will play a major role in politics, telling NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday that "she has the ability to ignite our party and to galvanize us and get us going again and give us a strong positive message." That said, McCain declined to endorse a Palin for President campaign. "

7/12/2009 7:06:57 PM

Quote :

"Palin Hints At Independent Conservative Movement Enter now Sarah Palin with very encouraging comments that lead one to believe that she is indeed planning to do what she must: build an independent conservative movement and take this nation back from the liberals which now control both parties.Thanks liberals, for provoking Sarah into the national scene while vetting that family at the same time. One thing I will say, the Washington Times with their headline for this exclusive interview reveal an anti-Palin stance. She is, don’t doubt, a threat to every existing political status quo. I hope the Washington Times and their editors realize, sooner than later, that the Palin movement is unstoppable and their credibility would be saved simply by reporting the news instead of becoming a GOP version of the NYT. "

This would be so awesome.

7/14/2009 3:10:01 PM

That would be pretty cool. Splitting the gop would be awesome.

7/14/2009 3:19:34 PM

7/14/2009 3:20:48 PM

LIBRALS
LIBRALS
MY DICKS HARD
PISS
MOAN

7/14/2009 3:35:49 PM

^^^ It would also give the non-religious conservatives the footing they need form a serious party. Palin trying to form her own conservative movement though would be great for the democrats for the next few elections.

7/14/2009 4:19:34 PM

yep, pull the hardcore Religious Right out of the GOP into an "Independent Conservative Party", then if the Libertarians gain any momentum with pulling the nutty faction of the Fiscal Conservatives away, the Republicans will just be left with some small gov't people and the National Defense wing.

The Democrats will dominate those 2-3 parties

7/14/2009 6:58:13 PM

Kucinich 2012

7/14/2009 7:23:23 PM

Quote :

"then if the Libertarians gain any momentum with pulling the nutty faction of the Fiscal Conservatives away, the Republicans will just be left with some small gov't people and the National Defense wing."

i'm not sure I follow what you're saying here, but if the GOP split, most of the people left would be less fiscally conservative than you think. after all, the fiercest fiscal conservative in the GOP are also, for the most part, equally as fierce on "values" issues, if you check their records.

there's really only one guy close to being a libertarian in the GOP right now...and he's like 73 years old and friends with a bunch of guys who want to bring back the Confederacy, blow up the Fed, and sell colloidal silver as a cure-all.

that said, if the remainder of the GOP was all the moderates, they might actually be a decent party to follow (but who wants to be a moderate? lamers, that's who).

7/15/2009 9:27:39 PM

Quote :

"the fiercest fiscal conservative in the GOP are also, for the most part, equally as fierce on "values" issues, if you check their records."

I don't believe this at all.

Or if you turn it around, the evangelicals don't care about economic/fiscal issues one way or another. This is mostly because evangelicals are too dumb to understand math, since all secular education is the devil's agenda.

7/15/2009 9:52:56 PM

Quote :

"Or if you turn it around, the evangelicals don't care about economic/fiscal issues one way or another. This is mostly because evangelicals are too dumb to understand math, since all secular education is the devil's agenda. "

yes, this is exactly right.
I was being a bit facetious about how the GOP would/could split up into those particular 3 parts.

However, if Palin was able to create a faction of her own, it would be dominated by evangelicals, who may occasionally give lip-service to small government or fiscal conservation or whatever, but only say that because that's the GOP party line. They don't actually care about small government when it comes to religion being up in everybody's face, or using gov't to block people from doing things their religion doesn't agree with, or using tax dollars for Christian schools, etc.

The "true" fiscal conservatives who actually care about shrinking government and cutting programs will be left in the GOP, after the Religious Right has left.

7/15/2009 10:24:24 PM