No, there is a third option:

C. All of the above.

8/2/2009 11:40:47 PM

I actually feel dumber for reading the last page...damn.

8/3/2009 9:02:59 PM

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/feature/2009/08/03/birthers_kenya/

Quote :

"Monday, Aug. 3, 2009 11:15 EDT Birthers release forged Kenyan birth certificate for Obama To hear the Birthers tell it, their Holy Grail has been found: Over the weekend, de facto movement leader Orly Taitz released a photo of what is supposedly a certified copy of a Kenyan birth certificate for President Obama, which shows that he was born in Mombasa, Kenya, and not in Hawaii. The movement is, naturally, all abuzz. But even people who might normally be inclined to support it, like the founder of conservative forum FreeRepublic.com and the Birthers' favorite self-proclaimed document expert, who declared Obama's Hawaiian certification of live birth a forgery, are calling foul. The document is just another in an increasingly long line of fakes intended to prove Obama wasn't born in the U.S. How do we know? First of all, Obama was born in Hawaii. He has released a copy of his actual birth certificate -- the same kind of copy anyone requesting their birth certificate from the state would get -- and it has repeatedly been authenticated by Hawaii officials. They've also said that they've checked the original record in their files, and that Obama was born in Hawaii. Those records are supported by two newspaper announcements from the time of the president's birth -- and those announcements weren't submitted by the family, but taken from hospital records. The Birthers won't care about that, of course -- they haven't yet. But there are major, glaring flaws in this latest forgery, which is supposedly a copy produced in February of 1964 by the government of the Republic of Kenya (Obama was born in 1961, but the Birthers believe this particular document was related to his parents' divorce). The biggest? Kenya gained its independence from the United Kingdom in December of 1963, but was known as the Dominion of Kenya until December of 1964 -- 10 months after this copy was allegedly made -- when it became a republic and changed its name. There are some other basic issues with the document, including the age it gives for Obama's father, who's listed as 26. But Barack Obama Sr. was born in 1936, making him 24 or 25 at the time of his son's birth and 27 or 28 at the time the copy is dated. The Washington Independent's David Weigel makes another good point about the location of birth given, saying Mombasa just doesn't fit a basic Occam's Razor test and is instead part of the conspiracy theories about Obama's religion: The image is part of the extremely ill-informed conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Mombasa -- conveniently, one of the more Muslim parts of the country. This has always been a red flag for conspiracy theorists, so it deserves some explanation. Barack Obama Sr. was born and educated in Nyanza Province, in southwestern Kenya, on Lake Victoria. This is the area where Obama’s family lived and continues to live; Sarah Obama, the step-grandmother of the president, lives in Nyang’oma Kogelo, a small town in the province. But Mombasa is a city on the Indian Ocean, a thousand miles to the east. It didn’t even have an international airport until 1979. And the city wasn’t even part of Kenya when the future president was born. Mombasa was a part of Zanzibar until December 12, 1963, when it became part of the newly independent Kenya. The new forgery? Why, it claims that the president was born in Coast General Hospital in Mombasa. Taitz also filed the document in court as part of the case in which she's representing Alan Keyes. (Two plaintiffs, including Keyes' running mate, have just dropped off the case, citing "irreconcilable differences with counsel," not the first time Taitz's eccentric legal strategies have led to disillusionment.) Even by Taitz's standards, the motion that accompanies the document is bizarre and incoherent. Among other things, she asks that Hillary Clinton, as secretary of state, write to Kenya and to the U.K. and ask for their files, and says that discovery in the case should be expedited because "hearsay evidence exists that an individual involved in the examination of passport files at the United States Department of State relating to and involving certain 2008 Presidential candidates may have been killed in relation to such inquiry." As always, Taitz started with a small morsel of the truth there and then spun way off from reality. In the filing, she writes, "Lt. Querl Harris was one of the suspects in passport tampering scandal. Washington post [sic] has announced that he was cooperating with the FBI and shortly thereafter he was found dead, shot in the head, sitting in his parked car." It was actually a man named Quarles Harris, not "Querl," and it was the Washington Times, not the Washington Post. And Harris was indeed under investigation relating to passports at the State Department -- but it had nothing to do with the people who looked at Obama's passport records, among others. According to the Times, Harris was cooperating after he was stopped and "found in possession of 21 credit cards and eight printouts of State Department passport applications." He allegedly told authorities that he was part of a fraud ring that applied for credit cards using information obtained from the applications. But he's shown up on at least one "Obama Body Count" (shades of the Clintons) so it's natural that a conspiracist like Taitz would know something about his case and see it as evidence for her own cause. Update: Two British professors who specialize in African history have e-mailed Salon to point out another apparent error in the purportedly Kenyan document. The certificate's header reads Coast Province -- but according to the professors, at the time the document is dated, what are now known as provinces were called regions. Writes Dan Branch, an assistant professor of African history at the University of Warwick: It seems highly implausible and certainly a hoax. I have not seen any documents from this period in early 1964 that uses the heading of Republic of Kenya -- unsurprisingly given Kenya was not a Republic until December 1964. Moreover, the label of 'Region' was being used in early 1964 instead of 'Province.' While some of the old colonial forms may have still been in circulation, which would have used 'Coast Province,' these would have been headed as 'Colony & Protectorate of Kenya.' As for his qualifications to judge the document and the header on it, Branch e-mails, "I''ve been working in the Kenyan archives on late-colonial and post-colonial history for the past eight years." Additional reporting by Gabriel Winant ."

8/3/2009 11:31:51 PM

It does not get much better than this, really.

http://washingtonindependent.com/53658/is-this-the-source-of-the-forged-kenyan-birth-certificate

Well, it could get better. They could quit.

Quote :

"One of my friends in the small community of Obama “birther”-debunkers passes on quite the discovery: a 1964 “certified copy of registration of birth” from Australia, easily available on Bomford.net, a genealogy site. There are striking similarities between this document and the one Orly Taitz is passing off as a “Kenyan birth certificate” for Barack Obama. - The design is identical, down to the seal at the top and the classifications (”Christian name,” etc) used for identifying the baby. - The “registrar” on the Bomford document is G.F. Lavender. On the Taitz document, it’s E.F. Lavender. - The “district registrar” on the Bomford document is J.H. Miller. On the Taitz document, it’s M.H. Miller. Picture 33 - The number of the book is identical on both documents: Book 44B, Page 5733. What’s more likely — that two Kenyan bureaucrats shared last names with two Australian bureaucrats, and that the numbers on both certificates were identical? Or that someone used this document, available online for anyone who wanted to look, to forge the Obama “certificate?”"

8/3/2009 11:41:28 PM

joe schmoe is a racist

8/4/2009 12:36:37 AM

^better watch out or he'll make a chit chat thread about you

8/4/2009 12:38:59 AM

^ are you still here? dont you have a sock to hump, or something?

8/4/2009 1:39:39 AM

message_topic.aspx?topic=572234&page=3

ok well I blocked you now so you can stop posting to me or about me cause otherwise that would make you very homo

8/4/2009 2:19:48 AM

wow, just wow

8/4/2009 1:46:03 PM

Dr. Orly Taitz

must watch!

8/4/2009 1:57:13 PM

haha i saw that live at AAA yesterday. totally nuts. must watch indeed.

8/4/2009 4:31:03 PM

Would like to change his name.

8/4/2009 7:08:56 PM

i like how the chick who can barely speak english is the leader of proving the president isnt a citizen. she sounds like a bond villian more than a serious person.

oh the entertainment value is immense except for the crazy high russian villian voice that gets annoying. and that hot black chick was about to keep it real in that video hahaha

8/4/2009 7:32:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86fPsC_cCQ

8/4/2009 7:39:47 PM

haha, gotta love the forged kenyan bc. lol.

8/4/2009 9:00:21 PM

Hahaha. Begin typing "orly" into google.

The first suggestion is hilarious.

8/4/2009 11:03:48 PM

^hahaha indeed

i cant pronounce her name Orly (or-lee) in my head for shit. it always comes out O-RLY?(oh really)

8/4/2009 11:35:51 PM

wow, this is so true, found this on a conservative website

Quote :

"scheming daemons The brutal bottom line on the "birthers" that nobody wants to say out loud They won't stop until Obama is murdered. The "birther" angle is just part of the larger "marxist, anti-american, usurper, tea party, take-our-country-back, 'wolverines!'" angle. They cannot, will not, accept Barack Obama as their President. They want him dead. They want to drum up enough Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt until some crazy Scott Roeder-like character comes along and does what they don't have the courage to do themselves. They are creating the conditions, willfully, for the next Timothy McVeigh to emerge and act. That is their intent. They're not even hiding it that well anymore. They're just waiting for the November-1963-Dallas moment to present itself to one of the crazies they've cultivated. And they'll have plausible deniability, since it will be a "lone wolf" acting on his own fear and paranoia with no direct traceability to the Limbaughs, Becks, and Liddys of the world. Scott Roeder was created by Operation Rescue and their rhetoric. Timothy McVeigh was created by the Arkansas Project and its rhetoric. Some future assailant is being created right now by the Orly Taitz's of the world. We can laugh about it all we want... and their claims ARE laughable. But their goal is a coup d'etat. By any means necessary. And it only takes one nut job to get past the Secret Service to make it happen. They're planting the seeds by creating THOUSANDS of nut jobs. Godspeed, Secret Service."

8/5/2009 10:57:04 AM

*shudders* at thought of Biden becoming president

8/5/2009 11:16:23 AM

*shudders* at thought of Biden becoming president

8/5/2009 11:26:17 AM

This whole birthers movement is a clever disguise for racist white americans to be up in arms about having a Black President.

That's it.

8/5/2009 11:29:47 AM

i know, right? It couldn't possibly be that there is even a shred of merit to it. nope, it's just racist dumbfucks

8/5/2009 7:26:05 PM

From a Democrat's perspective, this Birther bullshit is GOOD for them. Figure almost anyone in the (bowel) movement wasn't ever going to vote Democrat anyway, and this shit is going to scare away alot of independents and moderate republicans.

Same thing with the 9/11 twoofers, Republicans love them, Democrats hated them.


[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 7:47 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2009 7:46:52 PM

no it really couldn't have a shred of merit. Look at its spokesperson for gods sake

8/5/2009 7:47:33 PM

it has so little merit, that sworn affidavits from multiple family members mean nothing? come on. take off your hack glasses and at least admit that we should bury this thing once and for all

8/5/2009 10:03:15 PM

^the funny thing is they give a lot of merit to what 2 relatives in kenya say but ignore the president, his mother, father, grandpaents, governor of hawaii, hospital, newspapers, left and right wing media, and even far right wing commentators

if they say there is a doubt it is one thing, but to be so passionate and so sure that they are right without any real proof makes them look like they have other motives for doing this and that they believe in this cause they want to believe it

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 10:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 10:21:36 PM

well, to be fair, the president hasn't exactly done everything he could do dispel all doubt. For a guy the claims he wants transparency, he has done a shitty job on this particular issue. He's also done a shitty job on his medical records and his college records, two things we have come to expect to be released by presidential candidates.

And the media? Give me a break. They won't even fucking state the things he hasn't released. They won't even mention the sworn affidavits. They are so unbiased, that they politely refer to these people as "lunatics." The only reason they are reporting it now is because O'Reilly has been bitching about it. Remember, this is the same media that happily killed a negative story about Obama just weeks before the election.

His father? He hasn't seen that man in years. Hawaii? They can only release what Obama allows them to release.

Are some of these guys crazy? Sure they are. But, at least admit that Obama is not doing what he can to end this thing once and for all. And at least admit that sworn affidavits from family members amounts to some kind of proof. At least enough proof to warrant a court reviewing the affidavits, if only to say "this is bullshit."

8/5/2009 10:28:24 PM

^ Do you have a link to the affidavits you say exists?

8/5/2009 10:54:38 PM

why would I need such a link. They have attempted to be admitted as evidence before. But the judge didn't consider them in stating that the plaintiff had no legal standing to bring the case. Yeah, I guess the election commissioner of PA, whose job it is to ensure that only qualified candidates are on the ballot, has no legal standing to request that a candidate prove his eligibility and answer potential challenges to that. fuck that, you know?

8/5/2009 10:57:04 PM

^ because there is a lot of nutty out there on this issue, and I want to know exactly why you believe what you believe... where did you read/see an affidavit that compelled you to ignore the most rational perspective on this issue?

8/5/2009 11:03:57 PM

when it comes to this particular topic, i can't tell if burro is trolling or being serious

8/5/2009 11:13:37 PM

Quote :

"But, at least admit that Obama is not doing what he can to end this thing once and for all."

i'll agree to that. But is that enough for you to go to town halls yelling and screaming that obama is not a citizen?
if so then you are a lunatic, if not you are just asking fair questions.
there is a big difference.


me personally i find much of the available evidence to be open to manipulation so there is a doubt in my mind as well, i just dont go taking a shred of doubt to the full extreme, like someone who is just looking for any reason to discredit obama.

[Edited on August 5, 2009 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2009 11:14:00 PM

Quote :

"His father? He hasn't seen that man in years."

I don't think anyone has seen him in, oh, about 27 years.

8/5/2009 11:17:58 PM

Quote :

"And at least admit that sworn affidavits from family members amounts to some kind of proof. At least enough proof to warrant a court reviewing the affidavits, if only to say "this is bullshit." "

The only sworn affidavit I found was not from a family member, but from someone who spoke to the family member, swearing that they heard the family member speak on a particular day and time, not affirming a statement of Obama's birth.

And what the "birthers" are alleging the statements in the affidavit mean and plainly obvious not what it actually means, when you look at the full transcript of the conversation sworn to be heard. Interestingly, the birthers, hopeless lovers of "truth", conveniently leave out the full conversation when they re-hash it. Salon clarifies it a bit for those of us who have enough sense not to buy in to obvious bullshit:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/?source=refresh

Quote :

"No matter, though, because people who believe in a conspiracy theory simply hear what they want to hear. So some Birther sites have posted transcripts and YouTube clips that end abruptly with the mistranslation and don't include the corrections. McRae, for his part, included the full translation in his affidavit -- he thinks it's all just part of the conspiracy. "Some few younger relatives, including [translator Vitalis Akech Ogombe]," McRae wrote in his court filing, "have obviously been versed to counter such facts with the common purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii." ... "

8/6/2009 12:03:31 AM

Quote :

"when it comes to this particular topic, i can't tell if burro is trolling or being serious"

8/6/2009 9:05:41 AM

Quote :

"^ because there is a lot of nutty out there on this issue, and I want to know exactly why you believe what you believe... where did you read/see an affidavit that compelled you to ignore the most rational perspective on this issue?"

And what, exactly, do you think I believe?

Quote :

"me personally i find much of the available evidence to be open to manipulation so there is a doubt in my mind as well, i just dont go taking a shred of doubt to the full extreme, like someone who is just looking for any reason to discredit obama."

You just summed up my position perfectly.

8/6/2009 9:59:23 PM

personally i hope it comes out like year 6 of his presidency that he actually was born in kenya. that'd be the ultimate "ha-ha" as far as i'm concerned

8/6/2009 10:02:27 PM

no one cares what you think, downy.

8/6/2009 10:33:38 PM

dude i cant see anything you post to me. gtfo

8/6/2009 10:37:29 PM

seeing as you have me "blocked" ... how would you know i was even speaking to you?

loser.






[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 10:40 PM. Reason : ]

8/6/2009 10:38:49 PM

Quote :

"well, to be fair, the president hasn't exactly done everything he could do dispel all doubt."

If Obama invented a time machine and allowed Orly Taitz to personally witness his birth in Hawaii, the birthers would still not believe, and they'd still not support him.

Birthers' antics are bad for Republicans (I made this thread out of pure schadenfreude). Why mess with it?

8/6/2009 10:39:45 PM

nvm

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason : if only froshkillers thing could block users from seeing ME post...]

8/6/2009 10:40:00 PM

User blocking = TWW downfall

8/6/2009 11:12:30 PM

The best theory I've heard so far is that Orly Taitz is actually Sascha Baron Cohen trolling us all.

[Edited on August 7, 2009 at 12:11 AM. Reason : can we end this thread now?]

8/7/2009 12:11:11 AM

I wouldn't give a quarter goddamn if the president was from Borneo if he could turn around the shit we've got going on.

8/7/2009 12:50:31 AM

Quote :

"I wouldn't give a quarter goddamn if the president was from Borneo if he could turn around the shit we've got going on."

qft

8/7/2009 12:52:30 AM

Thanks, buddy, for quoting the post right above yours.

This is why people are trolling you.

8/7/2009 11:29:46 AM

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5aa7aae6c6/obama-debunks-birther-conspiracy

8/8/2009 3:09:47 PM

New North Carolina poll reveals startling numbers:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_NC_811424.pdf

Do you think Barack Obama was born in the
United States? If yes, press 1. If no, press 2.
If you’re not sure, press 3.
Yes ........................ .54%
No.......................... .26%
Not Sure................. .20%

Follow-up:

Do you consider Hawaii to be part of the United
States? If yes, press 1. If no, press 2. If
you’re not sure, press 3.
Yes ................................................................. 92%
No................................................................... 5%
Not Sure.......................................................... 3%

"Among Republicans just 24% think he was born here while
47% express the belief that he was not."



W T F

8/11/2009 9:43:28 PM

imma set up page 5

8/11/2009 9:44:51 PM