The political consequences that come from being visibly in the wrong.

9/10/2009 12:30:12 AM

you mean the public forgetting about it?

9/10/2009 12:31:05 AM

The Speech: Checking the Facts

Quote :

"It was an angry retort to Mr. Obama’s statement that illegal immigrants would not benefit from proposed health care legislation. And while other points in Mr. Obama’s speech were debatable, this one was not. The legislation approved by three House committees clearly states that only lawful residents will qualify for new health insurance subsidies. “Nothing in this subtitle,” it says, “shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10truth.html

9/10/2009 12:31:24 AM

^^ that's what the left has been depending on for decades.

9/10/2009 12:32:33 AM

and I'll bet you that within a year, that will change.

9/10/2009 12:32:59 AM

I hope so.

9/10/2009 12:35:25 AM

The public will remember what?

That the economy fairs better under democratic president? That Clinton reduced the deficit more than any Republican president? That the economy tanked under Bush? That the bush admin lied about WMDs and Saddam to thrust the country into a war? That Reagan's War on Drugs is a boondoggle? Or that Obama tried to get health coverage for everyone?

memories are going to be worse for the Republicans than the Democrats.


[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 12:41 AM. Reason : ]

9/10/2009 12:36:45 AM

man, I love those knee-jerk liberal responses. BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED!!! keep up the good work

9/10/2009 12:40:55 AM

knee jerk responses are all the right has these days.

I thought it was isolated to loons at town hall meetings, but apparently it goes all the way up to the elected representatives.

Who needs facts when you have anger and emotion?

9/10/2009 12:42:13 AM

The dot com wave that Clinton rode would have existed whether he was president or a talking parrot was and it was starting to decline before he left office. The left loves to emphasize that Bush screwed up by increasing the deficit but they praise Obama for quadrupling it or more in the first six months he was in office. Reagan's war on drugs has failed, but the leftists in power have supported it. The left also fails to realize that someone who opposes Obama's policies may have actually opposed mistakes that Republicans have made. Opposition to one politician is not automatic support of the opposing party.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 12:43 AM. Reason : ...]

9/10/2009 12:42:55 AM

You should just say that you are backtracking, instead of wasting your time and mine typing all that out.

9/10/2009 12:46:54 AM

I'd say that he destroyed what you were trying to say. But you're too stupid to notice

9/10/2009 12:49:07 AM

lol

the person that argues Obama was born in Kenya calling someone else stupid… nice.

9/10/2009 12:54:52 AM

if the shoe fits, it doesn't matter who is selling it

9/10/2009 12:55:15 AM

I wonder how long until we have one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu8uqMEmyRE&feature=PlayList&p=798BBA652BF0A716&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8

Quote :

"…my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility … "We can disagree without being disagreeable,” Rahm Emanuel said to Wilson, according to the official. "That was the point of the president's speech." "

-Rep. Joe Wilson, SC
-http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/


[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 1:06 AM. Reason : ]

9/10/2009 1:00:25 AM

More facts for the blind and delusional in this thread (aka aaronburro and bcsawyer):

Quote :

"The statement: "There are those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false." The context: Some Republicans, including Rep. Steve King of Iowa, have charged that Obama's plan would offer insurance to millions of illegal immigrants. The issue was raised repeatedly during town hall meetings on health care during the August recess. But current federal law bars illegal immigrants from getting government-funded health care and versions of the bill pending in the House and Senate also prohibit it."

— http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-09-obama-fact-check_N.htm

9/10/2009 1:07:04 AM

what part of "it will happen" doesn't make sense to you?

Let's make a bet. Within 5 years, illegals will be in on this plan. 20 bux. you in? will you put your money where your mouth is? Of course not. You;'d much rather put MY money where your mouth is.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 1:15 AM. Reason : ]

9/10/2009 1:13:59 AM

you don't and won't make enough money to actually make this argument worth while.

also I dont really agree illegals should get this coverage if it does happen. But they get police and fire coverage so who knows.

9/10/2009 1:17:46 AM

I don't make enough money to afford a 20 dollar bet?

9/10/2009 1:19:16 AM

yes

9/10/2009 1:22:25 AM

^^^^ So are you admitting then that Joe Wilson was wrong?

9/10/2009 1:30:57 AM

what? You are asking me to comment on what Wilson says Obama is lying about. I haven't heard directly how wilson states Obama is lying. Only that he says Obama is lying.

But, if Wilson's point is that illegals will eventually be covered, then, no, I don't think he's wrong. Because history has shown that illegals eventually get gov't benefits that originally were never supposed to go to them, like food stamps and welfare checks

9/10/2009 1:40:16 AM

Illegals already get medical care in this country. They just show up to the emergency room, can't pay for it, and get treated.

For some things, I can almost -- almost -- see turning them away. But sooner or later there will be infectious diseases that we don't want to create a large reservoir/vector for, and we'll either have to treat them or deal with the broader public health concern.

That said, I'm fine with Obama's stated position that illegals will not be covered. But in a sense, they are and will be. And at some point, in some situations, they will have to be. You can deal with the world as it is or the world as you want it to be.

9/10/2009 2:09:24 AM

Quote :

"also I dont really agree illegals should get this coverage if it does happen."

wait...so now you're saying it's ok for people to die just because they aren't here legally


you heartless SOBs

9/10/2009 9:08:49 AM

This is America. Our laws are crafted to protect Americans, not illegals, or other nations' citizens. No one is saying that it's OKAY to allow illegal immigrants to die without health care inside America, but you cannot realistically expect Congress to pass any law providing free health care for illegals, because then a huge influx of illegal immigrants will come to our country for free health care! Not that they don't already do that in masses, but the point is that the bill would NEVER PASS!

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 9:25 AM. Reason : -]

9/10/2009 9:21:02 AM

^ Fine, but letting them die while they're here looks even worse. You can't tell me that public opinions won't shift the other way when large number of people (illegal or otherwise) catch swine flu and start dying within our borders.

9/10/2009 9:23:42 AM

We aren't talking about what looks worse for our country, we are talking about what type of bill can realistically pass through congress without being killed on sight! If the Dems have anything in that bill that provides illegals with free health care, health care reform is dead in the water. If you want health care reform to pass, you have to know your audience. Congress simply will not pass a bill with that stipulation, I guarantee it.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM. Reason : -]

9/10/2009 9:29:02 AM

In response to Wilson's outburst - I wish he could have refrained from it. However I doubt that in the eight years Bush was in office, there were no left wing nutjobs that gave Bush the same disrespect that Wilson showed Obama last night.

Hell, someone threw a shoe at Bush, and all the liberal left-wingers could do was laugh about it. If that isn't disrespect then I don't know what is.

9/10/2009 9:31:23 AM

Are you for real dude?

An Iraqi threw a shoe at bush, not a member of Congress from South Carolina.

9/10/2009 9:33:07 AM

I agree that the bill probably doesn't need anything covering illegals. But they aren't going to go away either, and you can't just turn them away from emergency rooms when they're bleeding or whatever else. The costs to take care of them are going to be a factor in the equation, no matter if it's politically appealing or not. They're here, and we have to deal with it even if it's distasteful to the electorate.

^^ you can't seriously consider those two things to be equal. that iraqi got the shit beaten out of him by security people right afterward. the congressman was allowed to play with his blackberry for the rest of the speech.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 9:35 AM. Reason : update]

9/10/2009 9:33:13 AM

Did I ever say it was a congressman who did it? I know damn well who did it. I'm just talking about the response it received. Everyone is coming down hard on Wilson for what he did - maybe its a stretch to compare the two since Wilson is in our government's inner circle. I'm trying to point out the difference in public reaction to what is going on.

9/10/2009 9:35:19 AM

TIME AND A PLACE. people that are offended are offended because he was acting like a dick in a joint session of congress. they're offended because of the occasion. THINK MAN.

9/10/2009 9:37:11 AM

Dude, of course we laughed, that shit was fucking hilarious. Don't you remember all the awesome animated gifs? There was nothing funny about what Joe Wilson did, it was just sad and disrespectful.

9/10/2009 9:38:53 AM

No one in Congress is defending Joe Wilson, that is all you need to know. However, the people of South Carolina love Joe Wilson right now, and that's the bigger issue that is being ignored at the moment. Apparently the media is overly concerned with an apology and somehow misses the fact that the entire state of South Carolina supports what Wilson did. That's far more alarming and is somehow not being talked about? Kinda stupid if you ask me.

9/10/2009 9:40:23 AM

Now that I can agree with.

9/10/2009 9:41:43 AM

and Joe Wilson's challenger has raised almost $100k online since the speech last night.

sweet Jesus that's a lot of money for a no name race....

9/10/2009 9:46:53 AM

Shrike, I guess we share different opinions of what is and is not funny - I feel that neither action was funny or justified.

Its the same old argument - had someone done this during a previous administration's speech, it would have seen much less coverage.

I hate this double-standard crap

9/10/2009 9:52:46 AM

I think you are really stretching on this one dude. The main reason the Bush shoe-throwing thing was so funny was because Bush actually has some dodging skills. If he was nailed in the face it would not have been hilarious, not even to me.

9/10/2009 9:55:19 AM

my point is simply this...

I'm a heartless, right-wing, nut job, Bible thumping, gun toting, redneck SOB because I don't think that my government should use my tax money to pay for anybody's health INSURANCE...

*notice I didn't say health CARE....I said health INSURANCE...I'm not altogether opposed to a government funded free clinic-type set up where those that truly can't afford health care can go when they are really in need of medical attention...but I am very much opposed to paying the coverage for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that's too worthless to get a job or do anything productive with their lives other than sit around and have more kids that I'll have to pay for whether they even use it or not...

Yet, for some reason, it's not heartless for the same people that think I want all poor black people to die to say they don't think coverage should be provided for every Juan, Ricardo, and Paco that are here illegally, working 3 jobs, and putting some money back into the economy and government...

If you want to save everybody...you have to save EVERYBODY....or else you're just as heartless as you claim I am...

very few people that argue in favor of this type of legislation are actually arguing about the policies included that would cause this bill to pass/fail...they are arguing that everybody opposed to it thinks it's okay for people to die...

9/10/2009 10:00:54 AM

I would have laughed at it. Getting hit with a shoe is a small price to pay for sending thousands of American troops to their deaths for oil.

9/10/2009 10:01:31 AM

Because we've secured sooo much oil for ourselves from whats going on in Iraq.

Obama is sending thousands of troops to Afghanistan to their possible deaths - no one is complaining about that. Again, double-standard, but this is not the thread to discuss.

9/10/2009 10:05:24 AM

There is no "double standard." There's a major difference between Afghanistan and Iraq. Please educate yourself.

9/10/2009 10:10:34 AM

The republican Congressman from South Carolina Wilson managed to fund his opponents entire campaign by shouting out to call the president a lair in the middle of his address to a joint session of congress last night.

http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/19079

The amount raised went up 3000 dollars while I typed this message.

9/10/2009 10:11:48 AM

Quote :

"...but I am very much opposed to paying the coverage for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that's too worthless to get a job or do anything productive with their lives other than sit around and have more kids that I'll have to pay for whether they even use it or not..."

When I read stuff like this, I really do wonder why Obama even bothers. The people who oppose his plans aren't even listening. You won't be paying for anyone's coverage, at least no more than you are today.

The exchange will only be available to small businesses, the self employed, the unemployed, and people who don't already have insurance. The plans on the exchange, including a possible public option, aren't free. There will be premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc......., just like any private plan available today. The only subsidies will be for people who are truly incapable of purchasing health insurance on their own.

Believe me, I wish Obama was lieing. I wish he truly was proposing a single payer system, getting rid of for profit health insurance companies, and setting up a system of public non-profit hospitals. I wish these claims of government takeovers and socialized medicine were true. But they aren't.

It's not nearly that controversial. It's not the overhaul we really want, but it's something that will actually help out a lot of people and put us on the path to joining the rest of civilized world. Most importantly, it's a plan that has an actual chance of passing this year.

9/10/2009 10:15:42 AM

I think Obama means well - I really do, but I think he is way to optimistic in saying that his plan will not increase the deficit. Naive even. I'm afraid that it is going to pass before seeing it snowball into something we can not handle.

And I do not think he addressed (and if he did I missed it) what happens if and when employers choose to opt for the penalty for not providing insurance for their employees, rather than going the more expensive route and providing said insurance.

9/10/2009 10:21:01 AM

I wish Conservatives were this concerned with the deficit in 2001.

9/10/2009 10:22:07 AM

^^^you obviously missed my point just as much as you think i missed Obama's

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason : sdf]

9/10/2009 10:22:17 AM

Oh, I didn't really care what your point was. That out of context quote was just useful in setting up my little diatribe.

9/10/2009 10:25:32 AM

fair enough

9/10/2009 10:26:39 AM

Quote :

"I wish Conservatives were this concerned with the deficit in 2001."

They were busy blowing up some terrorists in Afghanistan. And that was a war that few people in the world argued with. Too bad it got ignored for several years because of OMG IRAQ HAS WMD's. Oh, wait.

9/10/2009 10:48:28 AM