Quote :

"They are protesting against Obama under the guise of unity."

So, in order to promote unity, they're holding angry protests against Democrats? I'm not following. And I still have no idea how all of this is connected to 9/11.

9/14/2009 9:05:32 PM

what?

9/14/2009 9:18:10 PM

For page 4:

Quote :

"TKEshultz:thank you glenn beck"

Yes. Thank you, Glenn Beck, indeed...

9/14/2009 10:17:11 PM

^pretty rampant ignorance on display there, but really, who is surprised by that?

9/14/2009 10:54:06 PM

^^the best has to be the lady who thinks the "army of volunteers" is going to be an armed coalition.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 11:52 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2009 11:49:50 PM

^^^ hilarious

9/15/2009 1:21:01 AM

I did not sign on for a party of glaring ignorance and irrational hatred. You can imagine my disappointment. I guess now all that's left to do is hope that I live long enough to see the Republican party destroy itself and then rise again in some reasonable form from the ashes.

Sometimes I fantasize about what life could have been like if Karl Rove died in the womb, subsequently allowing John McCain to be elected president in 2000. Think of it -- a world in which the Republican party did not demand slavish devotion, widespread ignorance, and blind hatred. A world in which we weren't the great pariahs. A world in which competent execution of tasks was put above fanatical loyalty to the party line.

I fantasize about it, and I shed a single tear, like that indian that saw all the litter. Then I drink like the rest of the indians.

9/15/2009 2:17:38 AM

I guess this is what I don't understand:

The Tea-Parties are funded by FreedomWorks (you can see it on all the T-shirts and on the websites, and there are even more groups, but FreedomWorks is the main sponsor) an organization whose chair is Dick Armey and has a board of directors containing billionaire Steve Forbes.

How does this compute with TKEshultz saying "not astroturf" and "grass ROOTS?"

EDIT: I mean, really, go to this website: http://912dc.org/donate/ and look on the left side. How many of those are HUGE conservative PACs funded by millionaire businessmen?

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 8:44 AM. Reason : ]

9/15/2009 8:43:27 AM

^ it's not relevant at this point where it's coming from. Just that the nuttier aspects be contained and discredited.

9/15/2009 11:49:45 AM

Hmmm, some group on there is billing itself as the ALA, and it's not the American Library Association. Maybe a WWF like showdown is coming (I hope).

Hey, look, it's one of the Tea Party leaders on CNN, and he's thinks Obama is "acting like an Indonesian Muslim". I'm sure there's something here that I'm not getting, right guys?

http://digg.com/political_opinion/Tea_Party_Leader_Obama_Is_An_Indonesian_Muslim

Quote :

"Sometimes I fantasize about what life could have been like if Karl Rove died in the womb, subsequently allowing John McCain to be elected president in 2000. Think of it -- a world in which the Republican party did not demand slavish devotion, widespread ignorance, and blind hatred. A world in which we weren't the great pariahs. A world in which competent execution of tasks was put above fanatical loyalty to the party line."

I sympathize with your plight, but doesn't this trace back more to the culture wars of the 90s, and the rise of the religious right prior to that? I mean, there's a direct line between the whole "Vince Foser was murdered by Clinton" to these sorts of protests. Conspiracies, scandals and travesties that really aren't, a belief that the government has all sorts of horrible plans to enslave society. It's just the black helecopters, waco, Whitewater, etc., redux.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2009 12:17:48 PM

I think that might've cooled down had McCain won in 2000.

9/15/2009 12:30:22 PM

so whats the final tally on how many people attended the rally?

i've heard anywhere from 75,000 to 2 million

can someone do the calculation of how many people can fit into the space they were in?

9/15/2009 6:27:09 PM

according to Rush Limbaugh, there were more people at this Tea Party than the inauguration

9/15/2009 6:35:29 PM

I got this from one of the march websites

Quote :

"Lorena Hiep said: Folks, I was there. I am a native of the DC area. WE MUST BE FACTUAL!! I know from experience - no, there weren't even a million people there. We should be proud of the turnout, NOT disappointed. The crowd did NOT even stretch 1/2 way to the monument. In fact, the other 1/2 of the mall held an annual black family reunion event - anyone who took the smithsonian metro station knows this. They deserved an apology. Please ask Glenn Beck to give one. WE MUST BE FACTUAL!! "

9/15/2009 6:52:58 PM

Quote :

"WE MUST BE FACTUAL!!"

lol… good luck with that, when Glenn Beck is the one pushing your movement.

9/15/2009 6:57:54 PM

haha, from the same website

Quote :

"We have to be careful to be accurate in what we say so that we don't become like the liberals and throw out all logic when discussing thise things. After all, that is what the guy who started this strand asked us to do, get an 'accurate' count."

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 7:15 PM. Reason : i think he means THREAD]

9/15/2009 7:15:19 PM

I still find it amazing that 75,000 people would truck it all the way to Washington, DC in order to support a cause that has no coherent agenda.

9/16/2009 8:56:57 AM

I still find it amazing that you do not know what the message of this protest was. The tea parties against big government (both political parties, lobbyists, special interest groups, ect) have been running for how long now and you guys are still dont understand the idea?!

I can understand disagreeing......but seriously, no coherent agenda?

9/16/2009 11:19:03 AM

Yes, they have a coherent message:

Barack Obama is a fascist socialist marxist nazist.

9/16/2009 11:22:46 AM

^^ I'm sure it's about "big government" for some people (why they protest now and not the past 8 years is curious though...), but a lot of people are just using that buzz word to hide their fear of Obama being an "Indonesian Muslim welfare thug" who doesn't represent "all of America (ie. white people)":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/tea-party-leader-melts-do_n_286933.html

9/16/2009 11:36:58 AM

Geeez

James Carville's reaction was hilarious.

9/16/2009 12:06:36 PM

Quote :

"I still find it amazing that you do not know what the message of this protest was. The tea parties against big government (both political parties, lobbyists, special interest groups, ect) have been running for how long now and you guys are still dont understand the idea?! "

The movement claims to be about restoring America to the sense of of unity and bipartisanship that characterized the immediate aftermath of 9/11. To show their support for this cause, they stage a 75,000-strong white male hatefest against the supposedly socialist/fascist Democratic party. This is not a coherent message.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2009 12:28:50 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure it's about "big government" for some people (why they protest now and not the past 8 years is curious though...)"

I imagine it has something to do with boiling frogs.

9/16/2009 1:18:11 PM

Quote :

"no coherent agenda? "

the fact that you simply couldn't answer the question makes me doubt whether you know either.
but seriously all you have to do is look at the signs at the rally and tell me if any two signs support the same cause.

to me the best way i can sum up the rally is it being an anti-everything obama stands for rally
even against volunteers

they just hate the man, they feel like a black man in office is unamerican, and they wanna take back the country

its basically a white supremacy/pride rally
but i think that is all it is and there is nothing more for them to do, they had their rally, they feel warm inside, so now they are just going to go back home because there is nothing more to fuel the fire

9/16/2009 5:06:35 PM

^i'm sure glen beck will make up something else for them to protest. they're not done. they'll be back again, and it'll be funny/pathetic, again.

9/16/2009 7:15:48 PM

Quote :

" but a lot of people are just using that buzz word to hide their fear of Obama being an "Indonesian Muslim welfare thug" who doesn't represent "all of America (ie. white people)""

8 months into the administration and you still can't criticize Obama without being a racist

9/16/2009 7:18:46 PM

Quote :

"the fact that you simply couldn't answer the question makes me doubt whether you know either. but seriously all you have to do is look at the signs at the rally and tell me if any two signs support the same cause. "

Which is true of any rally or protest, including the anti-war/bush protests, which is part of why they suck so much as a form of political speech, because it's very hard to convey a directed message.

Quote :

"they just hate the man, they feel like a black man in office is unamerican, and they wanna take back the country its basically a white supremacy/pride rally"

Really? Again, you can't think of any other reason in the whole wide world why a bunch of americans might be pissed off at the federal government right now, except for the fact that the president is half white? Really? Cause I can think of about 787 billion reasons and counting, and none of those reasons has anything to do with our white president.

9/16/2009 7:42:40 PM

^^ ha

Plenty people, on both sides (especially the gays), have valid criticisms of Obama. The bulk of the tea baggers/9-12ers/birthers that have been reported on don’t come remotely close to being part of that group.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 7:43 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2009 7:43:10 PM

^^oh i can think of good reasons to protest, but i think the crowd that is truly concerned about health care enough to make the trip to D.C. is a very small portion

The rest are there cause they are still pissed off at losing the election and feel that white people will now become 2nd class citizens
Its a deep seeded fear which is the only reason that i find that can account for such an uproar
If the president was al gore, people would still protest but nothing like this

9/16/2009 7:52:01 PM

I think you're wrong. I do think a lot of people are there to protest Obama's policies in general, and wouldn't be there if it were McCain or Palin or Rice or Powell doing the same thing, but that's not racism, that's politics as usual. But I think an ever increasing number of people are ones that are getting fed up with the fed running all over the people. Again in 8 years Bush pissed off a lot of people, and Obama's entire campaign was about change, and not doing things the same way. And yet, for the first 8 months of his presidency, all Obama has done is do the exact same things Bush did, just pushing a Democrat agenda instead. That isn't change, that isn't not doing things the same way, hell he's already staffed himself up with the same insiders and lobbyists that have been plaguing the system for years.

9/16/2009 7:58:33 PM

I dont see many similarities between bush and obama

obama is pushing a health care reform that democrats have been trying to pass for over 20 years
this is long overdue
and is the center of the controversy
but most of the problems we face come from the bush administration
high gas prices, war, tax breaks for rich, economy collapse
and the conservatives were bush's cheerleader the whole time, and now that obama is in office they are taking it out all on him
but they use health care reform as a cover to express all the frustrations they have
and race is definately a big part of it, but that is something that has been building for decades

9/16/2009 8:04:38 PM

^^ that’s a pretty simple stance you’re articulating, but people seem to be doing a piss poor job of articulating that in practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded


I can completely understand the frustration with feeling the gov. is just not listening, but the particulars of the arguments these folks are hocking are completely insane. You can only tell yourself that the nuts don’t represent everyone, until there’s one around every corner. The one guy their lumps socialism, fascism and communism in as the same thing. When you connect the dots, these arguments are coming from a handful of sources in the media with Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and recently Michelle Malkin. They are essentially fostering paranoia that is making people, and their movement, look crazy. It’s like what Cindy Sheehan did to the anti-war movement. She took any credibility she may have had from having her son die in the war, and squandered it, and the entire anti-war movement, by looking crazy.

The tea baggers have taken any credibility they may have had with the gov. just going nuts with spending, and squandered it by harboring the racists and loons that might share some of their beliefs.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 8:08 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2009 8:08:30 PM

hahaha Carville is hilarious.

9/16/2009 8:29:01 PM

^^the revealing thing about that video are the people who are asked why they are there and they really dont know

9/16/2009 8:37:54 PM

Quote :

"to me the best way i can sum up the rally is it being an anti-everything obama stands for rally even against volunteers they just hate the man, they feel like a black man in office is unamerican, and they wanna take back the country its basically a white supremacy/pride rally but i think that is all it is and there is nothing more for them to do, they had their rally, they feel warm inside, so now they are just going to go back home because there is nothing more to fuel the fire"

unlike the anti-bush rallies ... this was NOT an anti-obama rally. yes, obama ended up on a good portion of signs (for "obamacare", and because he is atop the hierarchy with complete partisan control); but with all good reason. this was an anti-BIG GOVT rally. some took that to mean anti-obama, but the majority was there opposed to overpowering govt, a socialist healthcare plan promised, unfair taxation, ect ect.

i also think its funny how people take calling obama a nazi, or associating him to hitler, as a racist gesture. Or to protest the first black president and his liberal gov't in control, by a majority of white people (cause minorities and far leftwingers only come out to protest for the important stuff) as a racist initiative. this is part of a convenient delusion created by the liberal, anti-bush, anti-conservative, obamessiah mindset.

but it's easy to see why they do it, and is quite smart actually. as long as they denounce these protesters as racist, rednecks, idiots, ect ect, they discredit the ENTIRE movement. and we all know, every news source, besides fox news, eats this shit up; but that's another thread. as long as these people are seen as another KKK rally to D.C., the independent population will (in their hope) revert back to the pre-election obama craze, that was so easy to bumper sticker attach to, and trust.

but, these comparisons of obama to nazism, and the opposition's racist correlation is simple. if you want to see racism, the kkk, white power inbreads, and gun toting rednecks then you will. if you want to acknowledge the socialist comparison, call out the gov't on the public's disapproval (quite similar to the bush era protests), and try to remind washington of the representative gov't in place, then you will.

im sure there were plenty of moronic racists there, with their main concern being a black president, and you no doubt saw pictures of these people across headlines.

but to devalue the whole movement based on these displaced and thoughtless radicals, is a delusion.

9/16/2009 8:54:18 PM

simple question, do you remember when the clintons tried to reform health care?
was there anything close to this kind of protest?

but then ask yourself how can there be so much outrage at a president who has been in office for only 9 months, and who has only continued the bailouts begun by George Bush?

He has not raised taxes, has not passed any major bills, so where is the rage coming from?
and where were these people when bush was in office?

so i think its a combination of race, partison politics, beck/Limbaugh hyperbole that gets people overly angry, and some legitimate concerns

9/16/2009 9:13:46 PM

i hate obama because his mom is white

i guess that makes me a racist

9/16/2009 9:18:26 PM

Quote :

"unlike the anti-bush rallies ... this was NOT an anti-obama rally. yes, obama ended up on a good portion of signs (for "obamacare", and because he is atop the hierarchy with complete partisan control); but with all good reason. this was an anti-BIG GOVT rally. some took that to mean anti-obama, but the majority was there opposed to overpowering govt, a socialist healthcare plan promised, unfair taxation, ect ect. "

WTFever.

Can you find me a picture from the 9/12 that doesn't include an anti-Obama poster?

Seriously. Tether yourself to reality.


And you still don't explain why "OMG BIG GOV'T" started only after Obama took office, even though it's an indisputable fact that Bush greatly increased in the scope and power of government.

9/16/2009 9:21:53 PM

because the general consensus in theory is that "democrats are for bigger govt, republicans are for smaller govt"

in practice...well basically anybody in power wants more power

9/16/2009 9:30:12 PM

Quote :

"^^ that’s a pretty simple stance you’re articulating, but people seem to be doing a piss poor job of articulating that in practice:"

Quote :

"^^the revealing thing about that video are the people who are asked why they are there and they really dont know "

And there are plenty of videos like this from the anti-war/bush rallies. The fact of the matter is, rallies are piss poor ways of getting a political message across because it is impossible to control the message when anyone with a piece of cardboard and a pen can get on the news. Never mind the fact that filming the crazies sells and the fact that the major news outlets (Fox, CNN et al.) have no interest in reporting on real political dissent and discussion because it doesn't fit into bumper sticker sized sound bites. Look I appreciate the fact that these rallies cause a lot of damage, I said the same thing about the anti-bush/war rallies too, they're simply ineffective and unfocused. But to ignore the underlying concerns is just as dangerous now as it was for the last 8 years.

Quote :

"simple question, do you remember when the clintons tried to reform health care? was there anything close to this kind of protest? "

Did the clintons try to reform healthcare just mere months after 8 years of the (arguably) most hated president since Richard Nixon, who by the way pushed many ill advised and unconstitutional bills though congress on the very same arguments our current CinC is using ("we must do it now before it's too late!") and immediately following a huge economic downturn and the congress literally plowing over their constituents to pass a horribly bloated, wasteful and inappropriate bail out of corporate businesses and irresponsible home owners? Did they then follow it up with further bail outs and a complete alteration of the bankruptcy laws to protect a favored company? And after all of that, did they attempt to do this reform after campaigning on hope and change and no more lobbyists only to then turn around and fill some of the highest positions in the government with lobbyists, insiders and the very same people who dragged this country into the aforementioned economic downturn?

I may be wrong, but I think there might have been a few differences between the clintons attempt and this one, and I'm fairly certain that it was more than just the heritage of the presidents parents.

Its also worth noting that the internet and mass communication was nothing like it is today in 1994.

Quote :

"And you still don't explain why "OMG BIG GOV'T" started only after Obama took office, even though it's an indisputable fact that Bush greatly increased in the scope and power of government."

Politics as usual and boiled frogs.



[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 9:34 PM. Reason : asdf]

9/16/2009 9:31:13 PM

Quote :

"this was an anti-BIG GOVT rally."

yeah, if that were true, there would have been huge rallies since about mid-2002

9/16/2009 9:34:35 PM

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 9:38 PM. Reason : dubs]

9/16/2009 9:34:35 PM

needle in a haystack

but why the hell do those racists matter? i mean, theyve just been waiting for a time like now to come out and travel to D.C to be racist undercover and protest the obama admin.

its so obvious, ive seen countless collections of pictures in the news, and video streams and sound bites of about 1/20,000 of the population there, that they all must be representative

those people waited until now to travel from all corners of the US for this racist rally, that their main concern was not the race of the president, but the ACTUAL ideals of the president and the party in control of the congress

CHEERS, BRILLIANT, WE CAN GET AWAY WITH BEING RACIST BY NOT BEING RACIST AND PROTESTING SIGNIFICANT ISSUES

BRILLIANT

9/16/2009 9:37:06 PM

the way the race card is being played is a sign of desperation from the left. They are trying to create an issue where one does not exist because their stance on the real issues is catching hell as people find out what Obama and Co. are trying to do. The smoke screens are dissipating and most people do not like what they see. The left should have seen this coming, but they underestimated the public's intelligence.

9/16/2009 9:52:56 PM

Why are you posting a picture that wasn't from the rally?

Please look it up online, and then notice the National Museum of the American Indian is missing in the upper right hand corner.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 9:58 PM. Reason : /]

9/16/2009 9:56:03 PM

Quote :

"simple question, do you remember when the clintons tried to reform health care? was there anything close to this kind of protest"

If anything it was worse. The Democrats lost the house for the first time in 40 years. I don't recall any mass protests, but Clinton was so unpopular he was not expected to win reelection.

9/16/2009 9:56:31 PM

If Obama is so smart, he should have taken the hint. They tried to ram it through before anybody realized completely what was going on, now he has 1993 on his hands again. It's no wonder Carter is calling his opponents racists. Obama is doing Carter a huge favor by making him look like a brilliant and capable leader.

9/16/2009 9:59:51 PM

You guys disappoint me. I can't believe you're putting this mass-tantrum on the same level as a protest against WAR.

9/16/2009 10:05:38 PM

Which one of the two do you think has more of a direct impact on peoples' day to day lives?

9/16/2009 10:08:03 PM

A FUCKING WAR

jesus christ. are you serious?

9/16/2009 10:10:46 PM