so putting the spark plugs directly in line with the suspension components was done for ease of maintenance ? you have 1 foot of hood left behind the motor... yes it will be cake to get to the top bolts on the bell housing but if you slid the engine back behind the wheel wells (or at least the friggin strut tower) the spark plugs would be easier to access, you should still be able to get to the bolts on the bell housing and the weight distribution would be better. but i didn't design the car i'm just saying that those would have been my initial goals...

However the subaru variant will probably have a turbo and maybe an intercooler behind the motor.

the oil pan being in line with the wheels probably allows them to put it lower without worrying about scraping it on a speed bump.

11/3/2011 12:24:44 PM

Quote :

"^^ a car that's designed for track use is going to be wrenched on, frequently. why would you want it to be a COMPLETE asspain to work on?"

Yeah 'cause the S2000's engine is such a bitch to work on

11/3/2011 12:58:13 PM

is that not a pitiful torque number?

I mean the engine is square (86x86) and it doesn't rev THAT high, so what gives? are direct injection numbers generally like that?

11/3/2011 6:38:02 PM

Quote :

"I mean the engine is square (86x86) and it doesn't rev THAT high, so what gives? are direct injection numbers generally like that?"

Shit no. Most GDI engines in production are designed for low end torque, especially the turbo ones. It's part of the downsizing concept: increase low end torque.

The accessibility thing for the spark plugs--ever changed plugs on an Rx-8? It's the same deal. By the way, the center of gravity on an Rx-8 is 450mm high.

11/4/2011 1:09:03 AM

because they have no oil pain... could you imagine if subie got off their ass and designed a dry sump flat4

11/4/2011 11:33:18 AM

yes Rx-8's have oil pans. It is very very shallow, more shallow than any previous rotary engine.

11/4/2011 11:51:12 AM

bring proper mr2 turbo. this car is pointless. 150ft/lb in 2012?

11/4/2011 4:32:05 PM

The Car and Driver article where they drove the test mule said "you can tell this chassis wasn't developed by camrys r' us"

I'm really.... seriously.... considering getting this car next year.

11/9/2011 2:41:39 PM

^^WTF do you suggest for a 2.0 NA square engine?

11/9/2011 4:59:42 PM

and wtf does the date have to do with tq requirements?

11/9/2011 5:35:27 PM

A shame the power plant is so poor. I really like the looks of the car.

11/9/2011 6:33:38 PM

my guess is sti/trd models to follow.

11/9/2011 6:43:40 PM

It will be tempting.


But, mentally, I'll be thinking about a used M3 in comparison...

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 6:48 PM. Reason : price range..]

11/9/2011 6:47:55 PM

^^I'm worried about the lack of a factory or "dealer installed" FI option. The engine's compression ratio is 12.5:1 which seems pretty high for adding boost to. I'm not sure if the engine has forged internals (like the S2000) but I'd assume not.

^I'll be comparing a used 911 to it...however the big factor that separates them is maintenance cost, eek

[Edited on November 10, 2011 at 9:03 AM. Reason : k]

11/10/2011 9:02:27 AM

^ I did not know this about S2000. I think I have a greater appreciation for the torque-less bastards now

11/10/2011 9:05:58 AM

The CR is high and i don't know if they will boost it (but the next sti will be a 2.0 so i'm assuming the engine will be boosted at some point in time so rods and pistons will be available)

And although the architecture was laid out by subie.. i'm hoping we got some of that 190% supra bottom end but i doubt it.

I don't know... its not perfect but my thought is for my DD this thing could be perfect, better gas mileage and better reliability then the legacy and it will give me the cojones to push the legacy into built bottom end built transmission hp zone.

11/10/2011 10:32:18 AM

http://www.tune86.com/ft-86-forum/904-ft86-concept-size-compared-other-cars

[Edited on November 10, 2011 at 3:34 PM. Reason : this car is gonna be tiny]

11/10/2011 3:32:42 PM

if you painted that car like how the other car's color overlaps it, it might be interesting

11/10/2011 9:07:03 PM

in before the LA Auto Show release.

11/11/2011 11:57:16 AM

Huh? What's being released there? The Toyota and Subaru versions are making their official (production car) debuts at the Tokyo Auto show later this month.

11/11/2011 1:07:31 PM

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111101/LOSANGELES/111109997


that's what i read

11/11/2011 2:38:12 PM

That article states that the BRZ STI concept will be shown at the LA show. The same BRZ concept that has already been posted in this thread. Unless they've got another surprise tucked up their sleeve we won't be in for anything new really

11/11/2011 2:57:54 PM

The pictures i saw in here were just computer renderings i thought they may actually have a vehicle at this one...

11/11/2011 3:12:10 PM

^somewhat...I posted this pic and I'm 95% sure it's real.

11/11/2011 3:41:38 PM

They have freed car’s electronics (ECU) so aftermarket industry can tune it at its will


<3 subaru

11/13/2011 8:21:52 PM

The new Genesis Coupe's base engine is a 275hp turbo four...

That will give it a better power to weight ratio than the FRS/BRZ and Brembo brakes are available from the factory. Shit just got real...

11/14/2011 1:36:07 PM

It did...


but then no one has cracked the hyundai ECU so 275 is all you will ever have

and brembos aren't always better, my legacy brakes with SS lines and the same friction compound as the brembos actually stop about the same and fade about the same as the same car with 04 sti brembos... and the genesis has the same brakes as the 350z/sti etc.

Here's hoping for BRZ sti, the problem is the sti tag will make the brz cost 30k+ probably

but, the new genesis is a steal with numbers like that especially if it can keeps its ~22k base price.

[Edited on November 14, 2011 at 1:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2011 1:40:36 PM

^you cannot deny that multiple piston with monoblock calibers are superior to single piston floating calibers in brake feel and pad wear. Single piston and floating calipers are teh suck at the track.

11/14/2011 2:01:58 PM

here is the BRZ STi, in flesh and blood... looks great.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/subaru-brz-concept-sti-la-2011

same engine (200 hp) as the normal model, but with other mods. 4 massive tailpipes (Nissan GT-R style) look nice, but out of place in a 200 hp car.

11/16/2011 7:39:13 PM

the new turbo engine isn't done yet its still being developed for the next gen wrx (the also small and light one)

^^ i know the lgt single pistons beat the dog shit out of the wrx non brembo 4 pot & 2 pot.

but yes for pad wear i'll give you multi pistons are best.


for feel... drive an e39 m5 and tell me those breaks feel like shit for being a 2 ton car. (all single piston)



[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 8:04 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2011 8:01:34 PM

Production version of

Toyota GT 86 (Europe)
Toyota 86 (Japan)

officially revealed.

Scion model (for North America), and Subaru model (global) to follow. GT 86 to debut next week at Tokyo Motor Show.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nw6WnrqMDTw

11/27/2011 5:54:51 PM

Thanks for posting those pics. Seems like higher resolution photos of what we've already seen. I'm really not loving those rear taillights...doesn't Toyota know that those lights went out of style like ten years ago?!!??! (PS tell Subaru that too).

At this point the only thing people interested in this car are waiting on is the price. My prediction is that if the base price is above $22,000 this car's success will be very questionable.

[Edited on November 27, 2011 at 8:46 PM. Reason : l]

11/27/2011 8:44:55 PM

You are welcome. Yes, the previous pics were leaked scans of brochures, these are the first officially released pics of the production car. Agreed about the tail lights, but since Toyota hasn't made a sportscar in so many years, they didn't get the memo about them going out of style. The Subaru doesn't have them, does it? At least not the concept, which I posted.

Aside from the tail lights, it does look great. I like the general shape and the small details. They managed to make it look gorgeous and aggressive at the same time, kind of like a Maserati (actually, it does look a lot like a baby Maserati GranTurismo). The Scion model in concept form looked better, though. Refresher: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/scion-fr-s-concept-1/full/

Hi-res pics: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-toyota-gt-86/full/

See the unique-looking "86" on the fenders: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-toyota-gt-86/full/#photo-4637417

As for the price, the Genesis 2.0 starts at $22,250, so that means the Toyota will start at around $24,000 or so.

11/28/2011 4:44:55 AM

^I was referring to the Subaru Impreza & WRX

What source do you have that makes you think the FR-S will base at $24k? Because it will not be competitive with that price.

11/28/2011 8:26:13 AM

yep... genesis can be had in R-spec for that price...

not saying its a better car but with 275hp... and brembos... it has better marketing to the masses.

11/28/2011 8:32:35 AM

^^ It was just a guess. If the Korean starts at 22,250, I don't see how the Japanese will start at the same number. Of course, the Korean is much larger and has a lot more creature comforts, but still. Looking at power, they are comparable (215 hp Genesis). Based on that, I estimated that a Toyota would cost a couple of grand more, just like the difference between Yaris/Accent, Corolla/Elantra, Sonata/Camry, etc.

11/28/2011 10:03:49 AM

The Genesis has 275hp. If Toyota was targeting the old 210hp model the whole time then they're fools.

11/28/2011 10:48:21 AM

Such a shame. Like the new Camaro, this had so much potential and flopped in the end. It is literally UGLY compared to the Genesis.

11/28/2011 11:56:09 AM

With such a low center of gravity and a flat four engine I'm at a loss as to why the hood is so damn high!

11/28/2011 12:38:07 PM

yes... clearly we needed 8" of room for the tires to move but even that wasn't enough so we put wheel arches in too.

please please please be for the inter-cooler on the turbo model :-)

11/28/2011 1:05:34 PM

I like it. Depending on cost, I may want one...

11/28/2011 1:13:55 PM

Quote :

"With such a low center of gravity and a flat four engine I'm at a loss as to why the hood is so damn high! "

could it be some sort of stupid law requiring certain height front bumpers and hood lines for pedestrian safety...? but then again, corvettes and such still get away with low noses...

either way, i agree, the front end lines need to come way down.

11/28/2011 1:37:53 PM

^the Euro pedestrian law maintains that there must be a few inches of "crush" space between the hood and the top of the engine. Given this car's low mounted engine I don't see why the hood is so high. Look how low the S2000's hood is, and that vehicle has an inline 4.

It looks bad and removes a lot of this car's sleekness

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:41 PM. Reason : it kills me that designers try to force chunky designs on us]

11/28/2011 1:40:39 PM

The US production version of the Scion FR-S is going to be revealed today at the Tokyo Auto Show in approx 11 hours! Hopefully price will be announced as well.

11/29/2011 8:26:00 AM

11 hours?

damn, i will be asleep at that time

11/29/2011 8:39:23 AM

yeah 7PM EST I think.

Dammit, Toyota has already stated that they will NOT announcing pricing at the unveiling later today

[Edited on November 29, 2011 at 9:16 AM. Reason : d]

11/29/2011 9:02:37 AM

Here is the Subaru BRZ in production trim. Kerb weight of 2,689 pounds.





Ummm, so where are the differences between this and the Toyota? I thought the idea was to share the chassis and engines, and then have unique bodies? This looks > 95% identical to the Toyota.

And what happened to these tail lights:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/subaru-brz-concept-sti-la-2011

???

Are those going to be just on the STi model? If so, that's a shame, cuz they are hot. The clear lens ones on the 86 and the regular BRZ are just ricerish and look as if they have been tacked on by fanbois, not stock OEM equipment.

11/29/2011 9:19:49 AM

The FT86 bloggers are claiming those images are just photoshops (though I've read that autoblog post as well). They might not be the real deal. I mean why are they using the same wheels as the Toyoto photos?

11/29/2011 9:23:47 AM

what you said makes sense, and i hope it is a photoshop.

those clear back lights need to go.

11/29/2011 9:28:46 AM

I like that curb weight...

Alot.


I like the tail lights too. I guess I'm one of the few.
Oh I like the lights in the autoblog much more.

I can't wait to drive one. I wonder what trim packages/options will be avail.

[Edited on November 29, 2011 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2011 2:50:17 PM