Also, when you walk into the rape tunnel...you are consenting to allowing yourself to be raped.

1/2/2010 2:04:36 PM

Quote :

"Maybe we need a law against drunk driving then? Hmm"

Yeah that stops drunk driving and justifies public endorsement of the substance that causes it

1/2/2010 2:05:01 PM

my apartment is a rape tunnel

1/2/2010 2:05:03 PM

I can maybe understand places that are restaurants and HAVE a bar in them like Sammy's, the Flying Saucer, or Sullivan's but I think this is a little ridiculous for places like Buckhead Saloon or PB's. If you do not like "smoky" environments then don't go to a place known for just being a place where people get fucked up and sorority girls go looking for dick. I do not even smoke but find this ban as a little to far. Places like the later i mentioned our "sin" factories for lack of a better word. A family is not going to going there for dinner so none of the "oh no my health while i dine." If you do not like places like this then do not go!

1/2/2010 2:05:51 PM

Whoa whoa whoa. Am I confused...I thought drunk driving already was banned?

1/2/2010 2:08:27 PM

How can we blame a person for their actions when we allow alcohol in our civilized society? The menace is the substance, not the people. Those people are being subjected to the negative effects of places that allow drinking. Therefore, we shouldn't allow places to allow drinking.

1/2/2010 2:09:23 PM

Are you kidding me? There are no laws against drunk driving! Where have you been, drunk driving is totally legal, it's just frowned upon.

1/2/2010 2:09:30 PM

Haha, lots of stupid in this thread.

Quote :

"The ban only affects establishments that prepare and serve food. If any bars want to stop serving food altogether, they can go ahead and have smoking once again."

This isn't true at all. There are no permits allowed for a drinking only establishment and for good reason. Eating reduces the speed with which your body absorbs the alcoholw. The bar would have to reorganize itself into a completely different type of entity (like a Hotel/convention center/private club/etc). Being a private club would be the best bet, but that requires them to be a non-profit or somehow exempt from Federal taxes. So fuck off w/ your weak sauce bullshit.

Didn't you say you worked for the organization that pushed this bullshit through? Figures. The self-righteous never care about anything but their self-centered goals. Nevermind the constitution and the rights of others.

Quote :

"The cool thing is....THEY ARE FREE TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS AND MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE. See how easy that was? They are profiting from the planning (and probably some luck) of people that came before them that made Raleigh what it is. They can always move to North Dakota, Montana, or the back woods of North Carolina if they don't like profiting from the benefits of doing business in a town like Raleigh. The fact that formerly smoking establishments aren't shutting down en masse tells me this isn't a problem for business owners. "

I know this is chit chat, but can you really be this retarded? The people that made Raleigh what it is would turn over in their graves if they heard the government was banning smoking on privately owned property.

1/2/2010 2:09:45 PM

^yeah that last comment seems analogous to

"YOU DON'T LIKE OUR PRESIDENT? WELL MOVE TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY"

1/2/2010 2:11:21 PM

You gotta ban it for the workers.

It's a class issue.

And I don't think it's right to tell workers that they should go get another job. Almost anybody with a college degree is practically guaranteed a smoke-free work environment, but those lowly waitresses need to suck it up or get another job. Fuck poor people.

1/2/2010 2:14:31 PM

Quote :

"You gotta ban it for the workers. It's a class issue. And I don't think it's right to tell workers that they should go get another job. Almost anybody with a college degree is practically guaranteed a smoke-free work environment, but those lowly waitresses need to suck it up or get another job. Fuck poor people."

Ban coal mining too while we're at it

1/2/2010 2:15:30 PM

Quote :

"This isn't true at all. There are no permits allowed for a drinking only establishment and for good reason. Eating reduces the speed with which your body absorbs the alcoholw. The bar would have to reorganize itself into a completely different type of entity (like a Hotel/convention center/private club/etc). Being a private club would be the best bet, but that requires them to be a non-profit or somehow exempt from Federal taxes. So fuck off w/ your weak sauce bullshit. "

there are plenty of places that don't serve food (landmark, catmandoo (sp?), pb's, etc...)- you just have to have a membership deal for it

1/2/2010 2:16:06 PM

what about Pantana's Pool Hall?

no food, but no memberships...

1/2/2010 2:17:48 PM

unless raleigh has changed since I last was there, there are drink only bars that don't require memberships

1/2/2010 2:18:38 PM

Quote :

"McDanger: Ban coal mining too while we're at it"

Coal miners want the job conditions to remain hazardous because it justifies their salaries--fairly high for minimal skills.

1/2/2010 2:20:04 PM

I think alot of them make it so you are technically supposed to, but they never enforce it


alot of people are surprised when I tell them about champions pool hall- but they actually made me sign up one time, and I got my card- same with katmandu (sp?)

1/2/2010 2:20:23 PM

Quote :

"Coal miners want the job conditions to remain hazardous because it justifies their salaries--fairly high for minimal skills."

Sounds exploitative, doesn't it? If they had more skills they wouldn't have to put themselves in damaging conditions to make money.

Ban coal mining, it's classist.

1/2/2010 2:21:01 PM

beer-only = no memberships

any type of liquor without food = memberships

Quote :

"You gotta ban it for the workers."

What about places where all the workers are smokers?

1/2/2010 2:21:27 PM

ok- so that explains pb's pool hall




the other places serve liquor and require the memberships- what about PB's bar though? is that supposed to be membership too?

1/2/2010 2:22:16 PM

Not to mention a disproportionately high number of lower class workers smoke

but hey

1/2/2010 2:22:23 PM

I don't think there is anything LE can do to enforce the ban. Its more of an administrative code.

1/2/2010 2:27:06 PM

Quote :

"Drunk and out of control people are a public menace and we have people in here arguing that it's in principle different than tobacco lol I guess they're right though, seeing as how smoking a cigarette won't cause you to slam your car into innocent people "

haha, i know you’re smarter than this, McD.

Any smoker 100% of the time will generate secondhand smoke, which WILL affect someone in their vicinity nearly 100% of the time. The people complaining about the smell on their clothes have a valid criticism, because that odor is a proxy for what they have very likely inhaled.

When people are out drinking, they neither get drunk 100% of the time, nor when they are drunk do they affect someone else negatively 100% of the time. If you were to create a capricious “collateral hazard score” for the two activities, cigarette smoking would be significantly higher. And it’s not like these people can’t still smoke when they’re out, they have to walk 20ft to do so outside… OMFG COMMUNIST FASCIST!!!!!1!!!!

When you consider the hazard of smoking, and of second hand smoke, the addictive nature of smoking and this effect on the users, and the fairly simple tradeoff of smokers having to go outside, this “ban” is not that bad at all.

The worst thing about this ban is that it has provisions for cigar bars but not hookah bars. That just makes no sense.

1/2/2010 2:27:43 PM

Quote :

"unless raleigh has changed since I last was there, there are drink only bars that don't require memberships"

Name one. I've been in a lot of dinky bars you'd think only served drinks, but they always have some shitty little menu so they can pretend to be serving food. Or they require you to sign your name when you come in (see: that shitty club on Hillsborough...I think its still called Pi right now?). I am curious how those clubs work though, because the permit rules say it has to be a non-profit.

1/2/2010 2:27:53 PM

I guess that makes more sense, at least about the enforcement of charging fees for a private club. I only remember being charged a $1 fee once (Jackpot) when I was in raleigh. I know of plenty drink only bars that I went to, and they welcomed me in with open arms without a fee. They just didn't give a fuck I guess...

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 2:33 PM. Reason : y]

1/2/2010 2:29:03 PM

^^ I think you're confusing the alcohol-based definition of "private club" with the new smoking ban-based definition of "private club."

^ Any place that serves liquor without food should either be charging you a membership fee or make sure you're signed in as the guest of a member (and they're not allowed to ask a member on your behalf or point out a member for you to ask). There are plenty of places who don't bother on a slow night, though.

1/2/2010 2:29:33 PM

Quote :

"Any smoker 100% of the time will generate secondhand smoke, which WILL affect someone in their vicinity nearly 100% of the time. The people complaining about the smell on their clothes have a valid criticism, because that odor is a proxy for what they have very likely inhaled."

And the measurable health effects exerted upon somebody who encounters second hand smoke is remarkably small (if existent at all in many cases) and is nothing compared to the amount of alcohol they're consuming. Sometimes when we go out and have fun we accept reasonable risks. You alarmist mother fuckers act like if you come into contact with some second hand smoke you're going to wither and die in seconds.

Quote :

" When people are out drinking, they neither get drunk 100% of the time, nor when they are drunk do they affect someone else negatively 100% of the time."

Yes and when they DO it's immediate and typically violent.

Quote :

"If you were to create a capricious “collateral hazard score” for the two activities, cigarette smoking would be significantly higher."

JUST including second hand smoke? Get your head out of your ass.

1/2/2010 2:31:22 PM

so what am i supposed to do after i fuck a girl on the bathroom at ruckus now?

1/2/2010 2:32:06 PM

^^^ ah you're right. The ABC definition doesn't have that stipulation.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ..]

1/2/2010 2:32:53 PM

Quote :

"so what am i supposed to do after i fuck a girl on the bathroom at ruckus now?"

Drink more until you're stupid enough to think that your personal drug preferences should be codified into laws that restrict other peoples' liberty

1/2/2010 2:34:28 PM

we used to be able to smoke afterwards

1/2/2010 2:37:22 PM

Quote :

"McDanger: Sounds exploitative, doesn't it? If they had more skills they wouldn't have to put themselves in damaging conditions to make money. Ban coal mining, it's classist."

Except they get paid more because their job is dangerous. Servers do not.

Plus, if you ban coal mining, you're taking away a good-paying job that people use to support their families.

If you ban smoking in bars and restaurants, you're just making a job safer.

Quote :

"McDanger: Not to mention a disproportionately high number of lower class workers smoke but hey"

So what?

1/2/2010 2:39:43 PM

i'm still a rockstar

1/2/2010 2:40:23 PM

Quote :

"Except they get paid more because their job is dangerous. Servers do not. Plus, if you ban coal mining, you're taking away a good-paying job that people use to support their families. If you ban smoking in bars and restaurants, you're just making a job safer."

The majority of servers I've ever seen are college students. These hardly count as "poor" people, are you kidding me?

If you ban smoking in bars and restaurants, you make a job marginally safer but at what cost to personal liberty? If it were really that dangerous that people would have to stop working there due to poor health conditions, wouldn't that drive the price of waiting staff up? How did coal miner wages get set?

1/2/2010 2:42:30 PM

Quote :

"McDanger: The majority of servers I've ever seen are college students. These hardly count as "poor" people, are you kidding me?"

I promise I'm not kidding!

Surely you've observed the older professional waitstaff workers? Men and women who've been waiting tables at the same place for years? They're typically women--maybe another reason why people don't care about them.

People describe them as invisible but you can actually see them if you look!

Quote :

"McDanger: If you ban smoking in bars and restaurants, you make a job marginally safer but at what cost to personal liberty? If it were really that dangerous that people would have to stop working there due to poor health conditions, wouldn't that drive the price of waiting staff up? How did coal miner wages get set?"

The science is fairly overwhelming. Secondhand smoke is really dangerous.

Generally, people don't stop working there because the serious effects can be slow to be seen. I mean, a waitress may give birth to a kid who is going to have short limbs compared to his torso because she was exposed to smoke when he was in the womb, but she won't know that for many years... Or she may get lung cancer perhaps as a result of the elevated risk she endured in a smoky workplace, but she won't know that until she actually gets lung cancer.

I think the main cost to personal liberty is that people have to get up from their chairs and walk ten to twenty feet outside in order to smoke.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 3:04 PM. Reason : Alright, maybe a little longer than ten to twenty feet.]

1/2/2010 3:00:55 PM

take a sword to this guy plz

xplosion guy

not mr dangerous

and our entire legal system too plz

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 3:02 PM. Reason : afsd]

1/2/2010 3:01:53 PM

I love McDanger!

And I think I'm gonna go smoke.

Only smoked three so far for 2010!

1/2/2010 3:09:36 PM

Quote :

"They're typically women--maybe another reason why people don't care about them. "

o please fall under the treads of a bulldozer

1/2/2010 3:12:33 PM

Quote :

"I promise I'm not kidding! Surely you've observed the older professional waitstaff workers? Men and women who've been waiting tables at the same place for years? They're typically women--maybe another reason why people don't care about them. People describe them as invisible but you can actually see them if you look!"

Or maybe feminism means caring about equality rather than chimpishly championing for every advantage and exemption just because a woman's involved, regardless of overarching principles.

These people exist but in all likelihood there are other places to work. Poor people are not solely dependent on serving people food to make a living.

Quote :

"The science is fairly overwhelming. Secondhand smoke is really dangerous."

Plenty of things are dangerous. Waitresses work in a hazardous environment in general due to alcohol as well. Should we ban drinking at privately owned establishments so that waitresses won't have to drive through areas of town with a higher density of drunk drivers (due to higher density of bars)?

Quote :

" Generally, people don't stop working there because the serious effects can be slow to be seen. I mean, a waitress may give birth to a kid who is going to have short limbs compared to his torso because she was exposed to smoke when he was in the womb, but she won't know that for many years."

What the fuck is she doing waiting tables in a bar while pregnant? I am down with helping poor people as much as you, and consider myself sympathetic to their plight. What person in AMERICA is so fucking hard up they can't switch from waiting tables to working in a fast food restaurant, or another restaurant where there's not much (if any) smoking?

Quote :

"I think the main cost to personal liberty is that people have to get up from their chairs and walk ten to twenty feet outside in order to smoke."

Nevermind that government is dictating to the owners of private establishments what LEGAL ACTIVITIES they can and can't offer on their premises. If stupid bullshit like this can fly we should just make smoking illegal altogether.

1/2/2010 3:23:58 PM

McDanger sounds like a damn hippy college fag

1/2/2010 3:24:06 PM

Quote :

"we should just make smoking illegal altogether."

+1

1/2/2010 3:27:00 PM

Quote :

"What person in AMERICA is so fucking hard up they can't switch from waiting tables to working in a fast food restaurant"

$ Cocktail Waitress = $ Fry Cook

1/2/2010 3:28:50 PM

I mean that's fine if you want to make smoking illegal

But if you do, you should want to make drinking illegal too

Quote :

"$ Cocktail Waitress = $ Fry Cook"

Hmm yes let me take on a shitload of financial responsibility and then become dependent on tips

When the wellbeing of kids are at stake then the gov't should subsidize that family's expenses to some degree. This is already what happens (and unfortunately people game the system, though if that's necessary for a system to exist at all I'm okay with it).

Nobody is fucking dependent on tips for the bare essentials, and if they are, they need to downgrade their lifestyle. Oh noes, a smaller apartment instead of a house!!

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 3:32 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 3:28:51 PM

No.. Because when I drink I dont spit it up and force it into your kidneys. dumbass

1/2/2010 3:32:44 PM

Quote :

"You gotta ban it for the workers."

cry me a fucking river. boo fucking hoo oh no the working class bartenders are getting hurt by the whims of society. If you are that
concerned about your health than you should not work at a bar to begin iwht.

1/2/2010 3:33:24 PM

except it's NOT fine


whatever. i just have to come to terms with the fact that most americans are now cowards that need a good beating. thats about the long and short of it

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 3:36 PM. Reason : d]

1/2/2010 3:34:45 PM

Quote :

"No.. Because when I drink I dont spit it up and force it into your kidneys. dumbass"

The secretions of alcohol (besides piss and puke) are the stupid fucking behaviors that drunk people engage in, that result in countless deaths per year

Many drunk people DO spit up their alcohol and make people deal with it, in all sorts of ways. BUT WAH WAH WAH I LIKE TO DRINK AND SHIT SO DONT BAN THAT, JUST BAN THE SHIT I DONT LIKE

1/2/2010 3:35:35 PM

you are dumb as a fucking brick. goddamn you are a fucking retard. im out.

1/2/2010 3:37:00 PM

yeah coming from "ncsuapex" ahahaahahhaha

oh man why can't i be smart as somebody from apex

1/2/2010 3:38:37 PM

pretty simple fucking point to be made here you babies so pay close attention

both smoking and drinking have negative health effects

banning one and not the other is just favoritist, unprincipled horseshit mostly predicated by drug addicts (drinkers) that hate other drug addicts (smokers)

go fuck yourselves, i'd rather live in a country where every little thing we do isn't regulated out the ass

1/2/2010 3:40:24 PM

just carry around a fire extinguisher and blast smokers in the face with it, they won't be in any shape to fight back after that...

1/2/2010 3:41:59 PM