Calm down, BRO.

2/11/2011 4:27:56 PM

Some of you people are either just generally afraid of guns, possibly from not being taught proper firearms safety by competent adults, or you're just paranoid as fuck and you think any person who legally carries a gun is liable to just snap at any moment and go on a killing spree

2/11/2011 4:28:28 PM

nobody reads the 49th post

Quote :

"most of these cc people have a sick hero fantasy where they get to shoot the bad guy and then a bald eagle swoops in and drapes an american flag over their shoulders as the cops, their dad, and their high school gym teacher pop champagne bottles and cheer"

2/11/2011 4:29:40 PM

No one is saying that it's not deadly force. We are saying that aiming for the leg means you are weilding deadly force when you don't think it is necessary enough to shoot to kill.

[Edited on February 11, 2011 at 4:32 PM. Reason : 5x or 6x ^, i don't fucking know, I'm not ocunting]

2/11/2011 4:30:24 PM

^^most of these non-cc people think anyone with a cc is going to start shooting wrecklessly any time someone raises their voice, because all people with cc's are trigger happy nut jobs, and none of them are responsible citizens who realize there are bad people out there and once in 50 years you MIGHT have to defend your life

[Edited on February 11, 2011 at 4:31 PM. Reason : ^^]

2/11/2011 4:30:53 PM

actually, no, that's not what i'm worried about at all

2/11/2011 4:32:59 PM

didn't read the whole thread

but I agree with the people that said people who carry (that aren't cops) are fucking strange. completely unneccessary. will never understand our nation's obsession with guns.

2/11/2011 4:35:01 PM

i'm eager to see the full report come out since there are still unanswered questions and theories floating around

1. don't think he was really after the money, but more suicide by cops.....i mean he told the teller to call 911 to tell police about it so i don't think he was looking to get away....and did he even make any demands

2. did he even have a real gun....police have not confirmed yet....just a gun may have been hidden in a hat....

3. how did the shots go down, from the video it seems the cop approaching from the right made the first shot...which seems odd that the suspect would even let the cops get that close.....but it looked more like a taser or something with a bright muzzle flash like a shotgun aimed at the thight....but neither would make sense since there's no guarantee that suspect would be incapacitated and the hostage would be in even more danger......and then there's discussion that it was a sniper shot i'm assuming from afar which would make more sense.

2/11/2011 4:35:49 PM

^ hmmm.

2/11/2011 4:38:59 PM

LOL at the antigun "nut jobs" that don't understand the law both as it is written and as it is practiced, as well as the caliber of people (at least the majority of them) who legally carry guns. Yes, there are some wackos out there, but I consider you gun ignorant fools to be just as dangerous to the general public

[/2 cents]

2/11/2011 4:48:38 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/11/983133/911-call-indicates-robbery-suspect.html

Interesting...why walk into a bank, hold a gun to the manager's head, and ask them to call the police....

[Edited on February 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM. Reason : Story makes it sound like he wanted to die no?]

2/11/2011 4:52:13 PM

Jbrick pwnt itt

2/11/2011 4:53:51 PM

Quote :

"But every cc in this thread is an expert marksman and can hit a guy in the sternum from 300 yards away."

lol. 300 yards. i can hit a dime from 400 yards with my pistol. shows how much you know about pistols

2/11/2011 5:11:10 PM

Quote :

"most of these cc people have a sick hero fantasy where they get to shoot the bad guy and then a bald eagle swoops in and drapes an american flag over their shoulders as the cops, their dad, and their high school gym teacher pop champagne bottles and cheer "

That does sound pretty awesome.

2/11/2011 5:12:55 PM

Quote :

"Jbrick pwnt itt"

2/11/2011 5:31:48 PM

Quote :

"NO. Doesn't matter. Shooting a gun is deadly force...you don't have to shoot for a kill spot for it to matter. Why are you guys not understanding this?? nvm"

Yes, shooting a gun is deadly force, no one is arguing that. What people are saying is that if you use deadly force in a situation that doesn't call for it you can legally be screwed. If you try to shoot someone in the leg then you are not shooting to kill, and if you're not shooting to kill then deadly force was not justified. If deadly force was not justified then you can be in deep shit since discharging your weapon is considered use of deadly force.

For the record, if I were carrying and in a situation where deadly force were justified I would still probably not try to shoot anyone. I, like most people, would just do as little as possible to provoke whoever because they will probably be content to just take the money and leave. If shit goes down and they start shooting people though, I would rather have a chance to defend myself than nothing.

2/11/2011 5:32:02 PM

spoke with the male hostage that you could see just inside the bank today in my office. pretty scary story hearing it from him.

2/11/2011 5:37:17 PM

I think the light we see is a) muzzle and then b) concrete splatter.

2/11/2011 6:13:37 PM

I was discussing over email with various local Public Safety Folks earlier today...
After having the chance to monitor everything that occured live here were my thoughts:

Quote :

"A few notes from monitoring yesterday's events: ---The majority of the interesting radio traffic (there was alot) was on Cary's system on the "CPD ERT" TG of 4528 (analog). ---There was a person hiding in the back of the bank all along that the suspect never knew was there that was a non-factor in events. ---There was a hostage that was communicating with Cary PD via text messaging early on. This hostage was released early on so Cary PD lost that avenue of comms. ---There was discussion regarding whether or not the glass windows at the back of the bank was bulletproof or not. It was determined that the windows in the front of the bank were "bullet resistant" (whatever that means) but the ones in back were not. ---The moments leading up to the shooting were very chaotic. Lots of "he is dragging the hostage towards the command post" and "should we engage suspect" traffic over the radio. Having discussed yesterday's events with an LEO Sergeant buddy he relayed interesting perspectives: ---You never want to be the guy that pulled the trigger (or guys that pulled the triggers in this case) for several reasons: ---You are now on paid admin leave while IA & SBI conduct their Investigations. ---You are now buried in paperwork having to write report after report about all of the events of yesterday. ----There is a good chance a money-grubbing lawyer out there is gonna get the family of the suspect to sue the Town of Cary and You in specific for the suspects death. They are gonna argue that you pulled the trigger too soon. ----You have to deal with the emotional aspects of taking another human beings life. Granted you know what you are getting into when you join up with ERT (SWAT) but it is one of the hardest things any LEO ever has to be faced with. I feel for everyone involved and think that Cary PD did the best they could with a tough situation. Any other thoughts & opinions are welcome."

And I went back and added one radio geek gripe

Quote :

"One more thought from yesterday: QUIT PATCHING BETWEEN VIPER AND CARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every VIPER Public Safety radio has Cary's Mutual Aid TGs programmed in and all of Cary's Radios have VIPER Wake Mutual TGs programmed in. I have seen codeplugs of every type of Wake County Public Safety radio out there and the TGs are there. There is no excuse for command not switching everyone to a common TG on one system. The digital->analog patches sound terrible, are a safety issue and defeat the purpose of having a crap ton of mutual aid TGs in the first place. That has been my gripe for a long time. Quit being lazy and just teach everyone enough radio info so they can all switch to the same channel on the same system."

2/11/2011 6:13:49 PM

Oh and to help put it to rest this was not a robbery but a successful attempt at SBC (Suicide By Cop).

The "Robbery" angle was just to draw LEOs to the scene and accomplish what the kid wanted to happen.

Sad that he could not get help but what occurred was his own doing and no one elses.

2/11/2011 6:17:28 PM

YOU TUBE COMMENTS ARE LOLABLE

2/11/2011 11:12:14 PM

i purposely read most of the thread ( ok, so i kinda skimmed over some of it )
and one thing popped out to me


if anyone is willing to risk someone else's life(ie a hostage situation)......
then the robber/thief/ murderer/speeder/ jaywalker/ what-the-fuck-ever better be willing to risk his own life for it.

im sorry, but just because he's a troubled guy doesnt make his life any more important than his hostage.


thats my 2 cents (and by the way im generally against the death penalty )


[Edited on February 11, 2011 at 11:39 PM. Reason : ()]

2/11/2011 11:37:43 PM

Quote :

"gun ignorant fools to be just as dangerous to the general public"

now that's just stupid

what am i gonna do, shoot you with my opinion?

2/11/2011 11:43:48 PM

This thread is full of idiots

CC and home protection guns are the best way to protect your life. I guess yall haven't had the pleasure of being robbed or having your home broken into.

[Edited on February 11, 2011 at 11:51 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2011 11:45:40 PM

^^try an enact legislation making it easier for violent criminals to perform there crimes against law abiding citizens. If you take that statement literally, then no- your words won't hurt as much as my FMJ...

and also spreading misinformation. but do what you do- I've realized that people on TWW, and the internet in general, like to spout off on stuff they don't know about just because they have a personal opinion that "XYZ is not for me"

and there are plenty of other threads that evidence has been provided by us "crazy gun tottin' nut jobs," that gun haters like to ignore. You have the right to not like guns, and not be comfortable with them, but not the right to try and take them away from people who are comfortable with them, and do actually know the laws and facts about them (and not what CSI and Boston Legal told them).

and with that, I'm done- any response you have, just re-read my post and that should suffice.

2/12/2011 12:00:40 AM

^ Comment Delivers

2/12/2011 12:03:35 AM

Let me start another topic ITT...

Jesus is not black.

2/12/2011 12:56:23 PM

Quote :

"Jesus is not Black"

^Prove it

[Edited on February 12, 2011 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2011 1:00:20 PM

^BAHAHAHAHA. Perfect.

2/12/2011 1:24:35 PM

lol

because the only time i have seent a black jesus is at a black church.

2/12/2011 3:10:21 PM

i'm not saying jesus was a terrorist, but he would be asked to step aside for extra screening if he ever tried to catch a flight. that's why the dude always walked.

2/12/2011 3:44:55 PM

Quote :

"but I agree with the people that said people who carry have insurance (that aren't cops) are fucking strange. completely unneccessary. will never understand our nation's obsession with guns insurance."

Quote :

"most of these cc insurance policy having people have a sick hero fantasy where they get to shoot the bad guy win the claim and then a bald eagle swoops in and drapes an american flag over their shoulders as the cops, their dad, and their high school gym teacher pop champagne bottles and cheer"

Quote :

"I have no problem with gun ownership, or even the CCW laws for that matter. I just assume that someone who thinks they need to have a gun on them insurance to go to the grocery store is paranoid as fuck. Anyone that paranoid is probably not 100% mentally stable in my opinion. Being prepared means remembering to take your wallet with you, not a fucking gun fucking insurance to get formula for your kid. This isn't Johannesburg."

I tell ya, all you folks who have insurance, wow. How many times do you die in a lifetime? What possible need for life insurance could you have? Also, home insurance just to go out to the store? What, are you so paranoid that you think your house is going to burn down while you're out buying your little baby some formula?

Oh wait, you have insurance because, in the off chance that you might need it, it's better to have it than not have it. I take it none of you have home insurance because you know you will need it or because you actually want to have to use the policy. You don't actually need life insurance either, as it wont benefit you personally.

[Edited on February 12, 2011 at 9:06 PM. Reason : t]

2/12/2011 8:56:46 PM

i'm wondering how long till padding threads will turn into the gun debate

2/12/2011 9:30:10 PM

^^ i like the insurance analogy (seriously)

i'm surprised at all the anti-ccw/anti-gun sentiment ITT

[Edited on February 12, 2011 at 9:49 PM. Reason : wait its tww no i'm not]

2/12/2011 9:49:47 PM

Firearm enthusiasts are becoming increasingly annoying. They're obsessed with guns and their right to carry guns all over the place. And that's fine. But then they talk about it. All the time. And they cling to the debates and get all know-it-ally in your face.

And it's not the same as being obsessed with social justice or libertarianism or video games or macaroni and cheese...those things are actually interesting. The gun stuff is just so boring, and it's not nearly the enormous issue that it's made out to be by the folks with NRA stickers all over their belongings.

And if they'd just shut up about it, the rest of us would probably forget they like to pack heat and not think another thing about them. But, no, they gotta go all crazy-eyed and constantly remind us that they love guns. Every single time: the same speeches with the same hysterically unreasonable levels of perceived persecution and paranoia. And I don't mean paranoia that something's gonna pop off at the supermarket. I mean, paranoia that there's an army of gun haters that lie awake at night filled with ignorant resentment, hatching schemes to disarm you.

We really don't care that much. But when you go on and on about it all possessed and obsessed, that's a tad bit troubling. And when you do stupid stuff, like vote McCain/Palin on the contrived gun issue alone, that's just terrifying.

2/12/2011 10:03:17 PM

^ Have you actually read this thread? You've got to be particularly closed minded to read any of what you've written into the events that have occurred here. Do you actually know anyone who carries a firearm? I don't know anybody who acts like what you're mentioning here. Even if I did, the fact that you want somebody to shut up or that you find their interests boring is hardly a justification for feeling that their rights should be taken away and that does seem to be your thing from past posts of yours that I've read (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think you actually know too many people who carry, if any. Hell, I don't think you want to know them, because if you did they'd shatter your ability to go on stereotyping them.

As far as the issues, I think you're totally ignorant to them. How can you be informed when you try to avoid it? You said yourself that you "find gun stuff boring". Do you know about the Clinton era bans? There have been plenty of measures enacted that restricted rights, it is a real concern for people who own these things. There are various jurisdictions in the US which have far more restrictions than others (And, interestingly, higher crime rates, say what you will on that). When the restrictions get enacted, it's possible that something you own will become highly illegal overnight. This is something that people need to keep informed of and doing so is not being stupid or psychotic, it's covering your own ass. I don't know anyone who CC's that has a car covered in NRA stickers (I'm not even a member), nor did I vote for McCain/Palin. If you'd pull your head out of your ass for more than 10 seconds at a time, you might actually have an understanding of someone else's position. Of course, you don't want to have that understanding. So, you keep your head in the sand.

Also, I'm getting tired of your insurance obsession. I'm particularly tired of the fact that you feel the need to tell everyone about your insurance every single time you hear about somebody not having insurance when they needed it.

[Edited on February 12, 2011 at 10:19 PM. Reason : t]

2/12/2011 10:08:14 PM

1. Didn't read the thread. Barely skimmed it.
2. I rarely talk about guns. I ain't obsessed either way.
3. Thanks for proving my point.

2/12/2011 10:17:06 PM

I shot each point you made down and somehow that "proves your point"? I think what you meant to say is that you made an ignorant statement, got called out on it, can't defend it and now have to resort to pretending that you've won.

Keep in mind, the people who brought this up were people like yourself. You are the one who raised the issue by making that post. I am not pushing any kind of agenda on you by responding to your claims. That must be your problem. You harass people and stereotype them, then they respond to you. In response to them addressing your claims, you go cry about it and act like they came up to you for no reason and started rambling on about firearms ownership. Looks like we've pinpointed the problem. Maybe if you'd "shut up about it", they wouldn't ever respond to you and you'd avoid conversations about firearm rights.

[Edited on February 12, 2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason : t]

2/12/2011 10:20:21 PM

Keep talking. I'm almost convinced!

2/12/2011 10:27:59 PM

Jesus, I hate it when people don't respond to me right away. I get scared that they're really mad at me or something.

I take back everything I said. I was wrong to improperly characterize all firearm ownership advocates as annoying, obsessed loons who need to shut up.

You are right. I am sorry.

2/12/2011 10:39:37 PM

BridgetSDK pwnt itt

2/12/2011 10:47:09 PM

^lol

Also, from page 1...

Quote :

" Quote : "a man wearing a purple shirt and red pants," from this it seems it has nothing to do with money. also, let me get this started in here... if a citizen with CC was allowed to carry in a bank there is a chance this would be over by now... seems stupid that you prevent someone qualified to carry a gun from coming in but will let someone who is not qualified make a visit. "

2/12/2011 10:51:14 PM

^^

I got all the sources for you in that other thread. Let's chat!

2/12/2011 11:01:23 PM

The gun debate all boils down to this. If you ( the people who thing CC'rs are silly ) and I were in a bank, store, gas station etc and a armed man came in and started pointing guns at peoples heads, who would you rather have sitting next to you in line? An average un-armed human being who has ZERO chance to defend himself or others, or me...and armed human being who has at least SOME chance to defend himself or others.

I am not sure what has painted the picture of people that have a CCW as "gun totin", paranoid, redneck enthusiasts that mostly "spray" bullets. To get a CCW, you first have to get a serious background check and be approved by your local sherrif, then go through training of how to shoot, when to shoot, when NOT to shoot and the ramifications should you shoot. The fact is that most CCW holders are better trained, less paranoid and more informed on these types of issues than an average person.

Now, I am not some expert marksman and I am also not Mr Billy Badass that would have capped the robber in the head at the first sight of his gun. We as CCW holders are taught only to use deadly force if anyones life is in danger, and if the right situation presents itself. Of course we would not try to make a head shot on the robber as soon as he walked in the door from clear across the bank with a tiny pistol, you use your fucking common sense and wait for the situation to escalate enough to where you would be saving lives, NOT endangering them if you decide to use deadly force. If the situation does not escalate, then great.

Let me be clear, I have no desire to shoot anyone. NONE. However if some criminal puts me, my family or friends, or if I can clearly see another person in danger (ie: holding a gun to a hostages head) then I would not hesitate to shoot.

Fact...cops take *time* to respond, a CCW holder may be standing right next to you in the line of your local grocery store. Some moron runs in with intent to kill, CCW holders are your *tiny tiny tiny* chance of putting him down before he shoots an innocent person...all before the cops can even get the 911 call.

[Edited on February 13, 2011 at 8:39 AM. Reason : need spell check]

2/13/2011 8:38:25 AM

Quote :

"*tiny tiny tiny* chance"

I'll give up this tiny tiny tiny chance to avoid the tiny tiny chance that the concealed carrier loses their cool under pressure or makes a mistake.

2/13/2011 9:37:03 AM

if you took away concealed carry you still can't know if the person beside you is carrying, you only know that if he is he is breaking the law and there are definitely no law-abiding citizens around you that could stop him

2/13/2011 9:40:52 AM

^^Can you point me to some news stories that read "Armed robber tries to rob bank, CCW holder shoots everyone instead". I mean, have you ever heard of a CCW holder making a mistake, causing more harm than good?

That being said, nobody is perfect and not every situation can be planned for however I would sure as hell rather take a chance of stopping the intruder if a clear and SAFE shot presents itself. You have to use common sense. We CCW holders dont want to put anyone else in danger, you have to use good judgement on your decision to shoot.

[Edited on February 13, 2011 at 9:42 AM. Reason : .]

2/13/2011 9:42:15 AM

Some of you need to go read my last post in this thread again

2/13/2011 10:00:39 AM

^4 and you have justification for that other than your own paranoia and unfounded opinions of CCW permit holders, right? Something that perhaps disputes the fact that ccw permit holders are the least likely of any citizen to commit a crime by a pretty large margin? Perhaps a reason that discounts the training most ccw permit holders do that often exceeds that done by your local LE officer? Maybe one of the ccw permit holders that you encounter every day of your life when you leave your home has given you reason to distrust them? I'll go ahead and assume not but feel free to change my mind and show me some of the studies, events, or people that provide validity to your opinion. In the meantime I, and other ccw holders, will be happy that the only way you can give up that "tiny tiny tiny chance" is to keep your dumb ass at home. Otherwise, we'll see you in the usual places eating lunch or dinner, passing you on the street, standing in line behind you at the grocery store, and you still won't have a clue who we are or what we're carrying.

[Edited on February 13, 2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason : .]

2/13/2011 10:02:20 AM

Quote :

"I mean, have you ever heard of a CCW holder making a mistake, causing more harm than good? "

I've honestly never heard of one "saving the day" either. I'm sure it's happened, but I've just never seen it.

I personally don't like guns. I wish we could live in a care bear world where there were no such things as guns. If you want to hunt, take your bow and arrow. But I'm realistic and I really don't have a problem with gun rights. I also think if you want to carry to protect yourself, then that's on you and I want you to have that ability. But I think there is nothing wrong with banning them in places like banks. Citizens should be able to carry guns to protect themselves, not "save the day." (yes, you might need to protect yourself in a bank with your own gun, I just think there's slightly bigger chance that someone tries to turn cowboy and ends up making the situation worse. again..this story on why this thread was started...cops handled everything the right way and only the "robber" got hurt...no need for someone in the bank to take matters into their own hands).

2/13/2011 11:43:09 AM