Quote :

"i was born on a tuesday. my mom was back into work that following monday. shes a badass woman."

I am sorry, but that is just not right.

I am not saying that she is a bad woman; she did what she had to do. But, it is not right to leave a newborn infant with a stranger for 8 hours.

It is alright if the child is already 2 or 3, thus ensuring that bonding has taken place and their identities/values have subconsciously shaped, but a 6-DAY old baby?

I don't know what you meant by "badass" there. Emotionally tough? Physically tough? I guess both. An average woman would have to be extremely emotionally tough (to the point of being unmaternal compared to the average woman) to leave her newborn with a stranger 8-9 hours a day. I don't know, you yourself said you are not very maternal, so perhaps it runs in the family. Maybe she IS maternal to the average extent or more and cried her way to work daily for several weeks and was heartbroken. Regardless of that, it is not right to leave a newborn with a stranger for 8-9 hours daily. Doesn't make you a bad person, though, cuz as I said, people do what they have to do.

Quote :

"changing diapers doesnt constitute raising a child. making a lunch doesnt constitute raising a child."

Do you have a child? Both of those constitute raising a child. When you spend time with your children, doing activities that physiologically and biochemically enrich their brain, you are raising them. That doesn't only mean reading them books and playing with them, but also doing chores which need to be done involving the children.

Since you seem to be interested in this, you should look up some of the studies involving children and their parents, especially newborns, concerning how new brain connections are made starting from birth (depending on what they are exposed to visually/aurally/sensorially), how their physical and mental/emotional health as an adult is connected to how much time they spent with their parents especially touch/massage as a baby, etc.


P.S. What about education and teaching? Unless you think education starts at 5, you can see how it is a terrible idea to leave a new born with a stranger for basically all their waking hours. Unless your nanny taught you things like an educated mother/father would and showed you new things and explained them to you and did brain-enriching activities with you, you would have been way better off with mom at home.


[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 2:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/8/2011 2:50:14 PM

Being a stay at home mom doesn't equal QUALITY time.

That is what joie and I are aging... quality over quantity.


Ps, the girl who went to Meredith got into Cornell but didn't go due to not being able to afford it. Meredith gave her money, so she went there. She can code, is crazy smart (was our HS valedictorian), went to Governors school, and isn't a ditsy blonde. /brag

6/8/2011 3:45:42 PM

suum cuique

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 3:47 PM. Reason : italics]

6/8/2011 3:47:25 PM

Quote :

"isn't a ditsy blonde"

eehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's stretching it

6/8/2011 3:55:48 PM

Quote :

"I picture ditsy blonde with comically large telescope sticking out of the roof of Meredith College looking at the night sky exclaiming, "O my gaaaawwwwwwww!""

hahahahahahaha....I am still laughing at that as I type this.

6/8/2011 3:57:00 PM

Quote :

"Being a stay at home mom doesn't equal QUALITY time. That is what joie and I are aging... quality over quantity."

look, it is simple math.

potentially 12 hours of quality time (waking hours of baby) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially 2-4 hours of quality time (when mom comes home)

you don't have to keep on defending what's not right: leaving a newborn with a stranger for 8-9 hours a day is cruel and unfair to the child.

6/8/2011 3:57:16 PM

meh, I might stay home for a couple years, after that Bella can watch the little shitheads.

6/8/2011 3:59:11 PM

Quote :

"leaving a newborn with a stranger for 8-9 hours a day is cruel and unfair to the child."

I wouldn't call it cruel and unfair. It's definitely not what I want for my kids, but other people have different priorities. I would also hope that in researching child care for your child you learn enough about your potential nanny or babysitter that they are no longer a stranger to you. The right childcare provider can be an awesome thing. They could even teach your child things that you could never teach them.

6/8/2011 4:02:37 PM

^^^The whole 12 hours isn't going to be quality time. That's the point!

In fact, I could argue that the twelve hours will be more fruitful with the nanny because the "stranger" () is getting paid to do it--there's a financial incentive to be good at it. You think the average stay-at-home mom maximizes 12 hours into quality time? According to my facebook feed, they do not...good lord, they do not!

People have been leaving their babies with other people since the beginning of time. Get over it.



I mean, shit, I could argue that being the type of the guy who would post the judgmental, narrow-minded, racist shit you do on TWW means your baby isn't going to be well-adjusted as she ages.

6/8/2011 4:05:43 PM

Quote :

"Very few girls go to college with the goal of getting a husband these days. That was our parents generation. Now they go to party, study, fuck, suck, and if they play their cards right, maybe meet a guy who can put up with them for more than a few weeks."

That's me. Don't care about a husband. Don't want kids. I guess I pretty much just want to enjoy my life and friends and one day figure out a way I can make a living doing that. So far, my college education hasn't gotten me any job that I've actually enjoyed, so its been pretty worthless.

6/8/2011 4:08:04 PM

No point in arguing with 0EPII1. He's a modern day Hun and completely oblivious to the norms of a civilized world.

6/8/2011 4:08:17 PM

^ he sounds muslim.

6/8/2011 4:14:24 PM

Yet another character flaw

6/8/2011 4:14:48 PM

my mom took me to work with her for the first few months for 3-4 days a week actually.

of all people i would have expected 0EPII1 to think the it takes village mantra to be true.

Quote :

"Maybe she IS maternal to the average extent or more and cried her way to work daily for several weeks and was heartbroken. Regardless of that, it is not right to leave a newborn with a stranger for 8-9 hours daily. Doesn't make you a bad person, though, cuz as I said, people do what they have to do."

she didn't HAVE to do it.
she liked her job.


by the way don't talk shit about my fam. i could talk shit about yours but i dont. show some class

i wasnt raised the same way you were.
respect the fact that people have differing opinions.


[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM. Reason : sdfdsfd]

6/8/2011 4:27:27 PM

shut up and climb into your burka

there are kids at home that need to be taught to fear their father!

6/8/2011 4:51:42 PM

hi nick



sorry i was a little crass a min ago.


im super stressed right now.


im gonna go take a breather.

6/8/2011 5:03:17 PM

breathe joice.... breathe...

you got this gurl.

btw where in hell is cody i never see him on here anymore.


[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 5:04:19 PM

Quote :

"by the way don't talk shit about my fam."

I just said leaving a newborn with a stranger from birth isn't right. If you don't want people saying that, don't put that fact out in public, and then say it is awesome for someone to do that! And I don't see how my opinion that it isn't right to leave a newborn with a stranger is talking shit about your family.

Quote :

"^^^The whole 12 hours isn't going to be quality time. That's the point!"

So you have video cameras in every mother in the world's house? And look, you don't know shit about this. Go read some studies. As I said, at the beginning stages, bonding with the mother is extremely important for the baby, and bonding happens by virtue of the mother just being there next to the newborn. I thought everybody knew this?

And please show me something racist I have posted. I could show you several posts of mine where I have condemned racism and argued for equal treatment of all peoples by all governments.

People have been leaving neglecting their babies with other people since the beginning of time. Get over it.

Quote :

"of all people i would have expected 0EPII1 to think the it takes village mantra to be true. "

I do believe in "it takes a village to raise a child", however, if it is actually the village without the mom, save 2-4 hours a day, then that is just not good.

Quote :

"i wasnt raised the same way you were. respect the fact that people have differing opinions."

There is no arguement here. There is the natural way, and there is unnatural way. Since it isn't against the law to leave newborns with strangers, everybody has the right to do it (unfortunately).

6/8/2011 5:10:13 PM

I'm not gonna read through all the RAWR RAWR RAWR stuff, but whats the current argument by OEP?

That using daycare is bad parenting? Letting your parents kid at 2 months+ is bad parenting?

6/8/2011 5:22:20 PM

Quote :

"And look, you don't know shit about this. Go read some studies. "

Go read the internet and you, too, can become a master level mother such as 0EPII1

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 5:24 PM. Reason : lkj]

6/8/2011 5:24:14 PM

well, there IS a load of info on this on the internet (and i am not talking about blogs and such here, but info by qualified people, journals, etc), but you know, books do exist.

6/8/2011 5:27:17 PM

my wife is staying at home. if she wants to get out of the house that's fine, there is a reason there are things like book clubs and neighborhood committees.

6/8/2011 5:28:14 PM

Thats why there is a window over the kitchen sink. Sheesh, the nerve of these women...

6/8/2011 7:10:32 PM

I was going to type out a long message


... but instead I have decided I refuse to argue with someone who makes cakes using vegetables. I'm questioning YOUR parenting skills with that info in mind.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 8:47 PM. Reason : v haha it's been a long day.]

6/8/2011 8:31:59 PM

Quote :

"I refuse to argue with someone who makes cakes using vegetable."

6/8/2011 8:41:37 PM

Quote :

"Being a stay at home mom doesn't equal QUALITY time."

As a stay at home mother with a background in child development and the product of a stay at home mother, I agree wholeheartedly and then some.

It is not that a newborn has to bond with the mother or the father. It's that the infant needs consistent loving care and that can be provided by anyone. A child can healthily and securely bond with anyone and it does not have to be the parents. It's just one cultural norm, but not universal.

I also have to stress that bonding does not have to be immediate. Nearly everyone knows about my son's medical problems. He spent his first months in an empty room with incubator, some music, and being fed via feeding tube. His only contact with people involved gowns, gloves, and face masks.

Eventually, Josh and I were allowed contact with him and able to take him home, which was set up for reverse isolation. You would think that spending months without the contact and care that most babies get would have caused him some serious psychological damage. However, we've had him "reviewed" annually for intellectual and emotional disabilities, but he's completely normal and intellectually above average in more than one area. You can also ask anyone who has met him that he's a very joyful, and social child. The only lingering developmental delay that one *might* attribute to his initial isolation is a moderate language delay.

6/8/2011 8:47:37 PM

he may not be able to tell me he loves me, but he will cuddle up to me, lay his head on my chest, and blow me a kiss.

6/8/2011 8:49:04 PM

^2 boom


And honestly, the isolation isn't even what came to my mind if he has a speech delay.. I would attribute most if not all of that to his reconstructive surgery - he had to have that spread out, right?

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 8:50 PM. Reason : ^ aw]

6/8/2011 8:49:46 PM

he also had hearing issues I think, definitely was dealing with lots of ear infections

6/8/2011 8:51:50 PM

Hehe. He loves his Elise.

I've also got to say that some parents are a little ridiculous at the lengths that they go to in order to "make" their child better, smarter, more successful, etc. I think that it's wonderful for parents to stimulate their child as much as possible because it is healthy and it isn't going to hurt. But I think that if my little hell on wheels can be as well adjusted and bright as he is after being a human guinea pig during his most formative months that some things are just innate.

--
And Samwise and PackPrincess are both correct. We had to wait longer than most do to have his cleft lip and palate repaired and Silas has some mild hearing loss. No one has given a thought to his isolation as being a cause for his speech delay. It's also very common for critically ill children to have speech delays.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 8:57 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 8:53:13 PM

.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 8:58:52 PM

Well I'm gonna call bullshit on that person's statement


If sitting at home and playing on a Leap Frog laptop and watching Baby Einstein with my child for 12 hours a day is the only means of me being a good mother, I'm doomed

6/8/2011 9:08:20 PM

.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 9:12:53 PM

hmmm, who to hire/promote, someone with their 5th kid on the way (will be out at least 6 weeks if not longer) or someone without a bun in the oven......tough.....

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:18 PM. Reason : w]

6/8/2011 9:13:28 PM

You do realize little babies sleep a lot, right?


They mostly eat, sleep, and poop. Of course they like to play, but don't act like they'll even be awake for all of those 12 hours (or even most of them)... Babies nap a lot, ya heard



And I'm just saying I think it's stupid for people to assume you HAVE to have a parent staying at home. I'm not knocking anyone for doing it, so I don't understand why there is so much hate for some of us who don't want to give up our careers.


I don't understand why I can't have two careers in the future. Why does it have to be either or??

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:15 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 9:14:43 PM

If most SAHMs were honest about the quality time that they spend with their children (and we are when talking to one another), much of a 12+ hour day is not quality time. There is a lot of "find something to keep the child busy and tired them out so that I can . . ." that goes on. But the good thing about being a SAHM is that you *know* what's going on, you have control and flexibility as a parent, and there are lots of little teachable moments throughout the course of a day.

6/8/2011 9:14:54 PM

it is creepy how obsessed this dude is with children

6/8/2011 9:15:59 PM

I've been a nanny for a family with a 9 month old and a 2.5 year old, and when mom works from home it is ridiculous. She is cleaning the house, doing the laundry, doing her office work. With the two kids she can only shop when I'm there or her husband is home. Either we all go out or I stay home and she shops or I go shop for her. Being a stay at home mom is tough work, and you don't get to sit and stare at the baby or cuddle it the entire time you are home unless you have a maid and a butler.

6/8/2011 9:19:24 PM

changed my mind, i don't want to get involved w/ this.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 9:19:51 PM

This thread amazes me.


What about all the grandparents that watch their grandkids? It's not like you stick them in some shitty daycare and go. You do your research.


Ya know what, screw it. I thoroughly believe I can still have my career and raise a child right. Haters gonna hate.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM. Reason : ^ No need to delete it, I already read it.]

6/8/2011 9:23:41 PM

I have posted twice wondering how your presentation went girl, you need to vanity search!

6/8/2011 9:24:49 PM

^^ i didn't delete it to keep you from reading it.

6/8/2011 9:26:03 PM

aw snap... sorry, I was in clinic from 7:20 to 6 today and only got a few breaks >.<

I think it went pretty well - at first I was freaking out because one of the doctors fell asleep, no one clapped at the end, and no one said good job (except my classmate )

Then I realized...

1. That doctor falls asleep during everything
2. No one ever claps or says good job at the end of chart conference
3. I got some head nodding during certain parts


So I'm feeling ok about it I was nervous in the beginning but the nerves got better after a minutes.

Thanks for asking

6/8/2011 9:27:28 PM

you're welcome! I just remember you mentioning it, and I know giving long presentations like that sucks, so I figured I would ask. Yay!

6/8/2011 9:29:47 PM

Quote :

"I am sorry, but that is just not right. I am not saying that she is a bad woman; she did what she had to do. But, it is not right to leave a newborn infant with a stranger for 8 hours."

Get is. If you are gonna toss your kid to a nanny that fast, what in the blue hell is the point of shitting out a kid?

6/8/2011 9:44:39 PM

I'm pretty sure babies don't come out of assholes.

6/8/2011 9:45:40 PM

of course they do

6/8/2011 9:46:26 PM

Murphy Brown lied to you.

Quote :

"she didn't HAVE to do it. she liked her job."

She should have LOVED you more.


[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:49 PM. Reason : feel bad for ya]

6/8/2011 9:47:09 PM

oh look some faggot named GGmon talking about shit he knows nothing about.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:56 PM. Reason : pretty sure "he" is an alias anyway.]

6/8/2011 9:56:24 PM

Great retort, outstanding. You really proved your theses.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:58 PM. Reason : af]

6/8/2011 9:58:11 PM