timbo

you are boring

12/8/2011 3:23:02 PM

Quote :

"Curious how often a CCP holder commits a crime with a gun?"

a lower percentage of CCP holders commit crimes with guns than off-duty cops commit crimes with guns

so has the topic now become "police officers should have more weapons training"

12/8/2011 3:23:44 PM

So other than the soap box debate on gun control, does anyone have an update on VT? The scanner link is so bogged down that it doesn't want to load for me.

12/8/2011 3:25:03 PM

A report from Texas in 2009:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2009.pdf

12/8/2011 3:26:05 PM

i'm not talking about crimes

i'm talking about this rambo fantasy that every person that carries has where they save the day with their gun

your average citizen is not trained to handle that situation

shooting targets at the range is not the same a deciding who/what to shoot or not to shoot in a split second in a stressful situation

12/8/2011 3:26:34 PM

Prayers go out to vt.

12/8/2011 3:26:50 PM

Quote :

"Update: Exams postponed for Friday, Dec. 9 (Posted: 2:59 p.m.) Tomorrow, Friday, Dec. 9 is the start of final exams for the fall term. Exams scheduled for Friday (tomorrow) have been postponed. A decision regarding the final exam schedule will be made as soon as we have more information. All information will be send via campus wide email and posted to the univerity homepage. Update: Media briefing to be held at Schott Media Room at 4:30 p.m. (Posted: 2:39 p.m.) Media are advised to stage and gather at the Schott Media Room in the west side South End Zone, lower level of Lane Stadium. Parking will be in the Track Soccer Lot The university is planning a 4:30 p.m. media briefing. Update: Shooter's status remains unknown; visitors advised to stay away from campus (Posted: 2:20 p.m.)"

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 3:27 PM. Reason : lol.. stay away from campus!! unless you're the media!!]

12/8/2011 3:27:12 PM

^^^^^nothing major that i've heard. just running down reports of potential suspects

^^^the vast majority of CCP holders don't think like that. also, reality does show that CCP holders have enough training to save themselves.

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

12/8/2011 3:27:19 PM

pew pew pew!

12/8/2011 3:30:07 PM

Quote :

"i'm talking about this rambo fantasy that every person that carries has where they save the day with their gun"

Where are you getting the idea that "every person that carries" has this "rambo fantasy to save the day"?

12/8/2011 3:32:03 PM

it's just typical rhetoric from the ill-informed.

12/8/2011 3:33:23 PM

idiotic statement not really worth reposting

i would like to walk from the bar to my car at 4 am and not be a sitting duck.

Having my gun and presenting it doesnt mean i want to or intend to shoot. most of these thugs willl run away if the robbery goes somewhat awry because they want the money from comitting a crime that will garner minimal police involvement; they dont want to deal with catching case for a body or being harmed themselves

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 3:35 PM. Reason : f]

12/8/2011 3:33:44 PM

i think the shooter carjacked that second vic in the cage parking lot and took off

12/8/2011 4:14:47 PM

NBC now saying they believe the 2nd victim killed was the shooter...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/08/9306260-virginia-tech-shootings-authorities-believe-gunman-is-second-victim-alert-to-be-lifted-soon

12/8/2011 4:29:48 PM

second dead body might have been the gunman

coulda killed himself

12/8/2011 4:30:00 PM

If that's the case I think we should applaud guns for ending this violent killer's crime spree before anyone else was hurt.

YAY GUNS!!!!
HIP
HIP
HOORAYYYYY!!!!!

HIP
HIP
HOORAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 4:32 PM. Reason : s]

12/8/2011 4:31:53 PM

12/8/2011 4:41:57 PM

fuck guns

12/8/2011 4:42:32 PM

it's ok


we can tell which motherfucker's gon' get quite when it's time to play show & tell with firearms

12/8/2011 4:43:30 PM

I wish we lived in a world where the strong could dominate the weak and there was no great equalizer, but that's just not the case. We live in the real world. Adapt or suffer.

Wait a minute...No I don't. That would be a terrible world to live in.

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 5:04 PM. Reason : s]

12/8/2011 4:55:04 PM

V-tec just kicked in

12/8/2011 7:32:14 PM

Quote :

"GON' GET QUITE"

12/8/2011 7:38:27 PM

In Switzerland, people have guns...big guns. They have a comically low gun-related crime rate. Hmmmmmmmm........

12/8/2011 7:46:05 PM

maybe it's because everyone's basic needs are met by a variety of government social programs that essentially eliminate the impact of poverty

but that wouldn't fit your political agenda

also, in Switzerland:

Quote :

"To carry firearms in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragschein (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security."

so shut the fuck up

12/8/2011 8:35:58 PM

Quote :

"several studies in most cases hahahaha"

12/8/2011 9:39:18 PM

Mexico's strict gun laws are working well, aren't they?

12/8/2011 9:41:12 PM

could you choose a country with less in common with the united states

12/8/2011 9:54:08 PM

12/8/2011 10:17:26 PM

Quote :

"HANDGUNS ARE FOR KILLING PEOPLE"

well duh, that's exactly what mine are for.




-Also, as far as the pistol in the purse...many (most?) handguns don't have manual safeties at all. I wouldn't carry one in a purse without a holster to guard the trigger for that reason, though.

-CCP holders are statistically less likely to commit crimes than are police officers, if I remember the stats correctly.

-As far as higher standards for CCP holders...well, there are pretty much NO proficiency standards for open carry, which is legal in most places. just something to think about. that said, if you're going to the trouble to train the laymen with firearms, i think the proficiency standards should be higher. My mom has her CCP; she isn't what I would describe as proficient at all in terms of either accuracy or handling. That said (prob for that reason, she almost never carries).


-One problem with CCP is that there are so damned many places that you can't carry that it really limits the utility of the permit.

12/8/2011 10:51:21 PM

^^ dumb mother fucker to harass a dude all geared up carrying a weapon.

[Edited on December 8, 2011 at 10:58 PM. Reason : R s]

12/8/2011 10:57:08 PM

Quote :

"wdprice3 settledown is the most trollable user on tww his beliefs are simplistic and deeply held"

12/9/2011 7:15:06 AM

Two thoughts:

1) Essentially, the "VT shooting" was a traffic stop that ended in a fatality. If we locked down an area every time something like this happened across the country, we'd never have time for anything else on the news. I understand that there are additional sensitivities for firearm related deaths at VT due to the 2007 incident, but this wasn't even relatively close to the same situation. It's one thing if you put people on lockdown for an hour or so just to make sure it really is what it appears to be (a traffic stop gone wrong), but it seemed way overkill to bring in SWAT officers with shields for a fucking traffic stop. I'm not diminishing the death of the police officer, but this was obviously someone who just didn't want to be caught by the cops... not someone who came with the intent to shoot the school up like in 2007. Someone over-reacted.

2) Gun control is probably the one area of politics/personal beliefs that displays the most ignorance on both sides of the issue. It just amazes me when I hear someone say they really want a Glock .45 for home protection.

12/9/2011 7:41:16 AM

Regarding your first point, I don't believe the shooter was at the traffic stop. The cop was performing a traffic stop of two other individuals in a car, and the shooter ran up and shot him, and ran away. At least, that's what I read last night/this morning. So, it does appear to be targeted, and not just someone who didn't want to get caught with weed and a handgun in the car, or something like that.

12/9/2011 8:05:05 AM

^^

the officer pulled someone over

then someone else not involved in the traffic stop arrived on foot, shot the cop in the head as he sat in his car, and fled on foot

then a second dead body was discovered down the street shortly thereafter

can you not see how it looked like a crazed shooter was on the loose with the possible intent to do more harm?

also, due to the lawsuits from the parents of those killed in 2007, you can expect VT to lock down every time there's a loud noise

[Edited on December 9, 2011 at 8:09 AM. Reason : g]

12/9/2011 8:07:42 AM

the important question to ask in this situation is did the people pulled over still get a ticket?

12/9/2011 8:10:40 AM

hahahaha

12/9/2011 8:12:55 AM

-->
Of course I realize VT is going to lockdown each time someone sneezes. That's part of the reason why I thought it made perfect sense for them to over-react. I'm not suggesting that they didn't have a legal reason to over-react..... just that they did over-react.

Sidenote: One of the doctors my wife works with was getting text messages on her cellphone saying "Reports of a shooting not connected to campus activities have been reported." for up to an hour after the shooting occured and the police on campus were telling students to be on lockdown. Maybe that was just a technical malfunction, but if you're going to over-react to something in the interest of safety, you should probably make sure you're reporting accurate information.

12/9/2011 8:23:06 AM

Quote :

""

anybody know where this is from, or have the video?

[Edited on December 9, 2011 at 8:27 AM. Reason : derp]

12/9/2011 8:27:12 AM

Quote :

"-Also, as far as the pistol in the purse...many (most?) handguns don't have manual safeties at all. I wouldn't carry one in a purse without a holster to guard the trigger for that reason, though. "

you have to be a complete and utter dumbass to not secure your weapon properly when carrying in a purse. it's not a goddamn compact or cellphone.



keep talking i'm reloading

12/9/2011 8:28:14 AM

Quote :

"However, I will say that 1 year ago my friend who is in the military and is a shooting instructor keeps a handgun/guns handy way too often. I have asked him to secure them better, they were way to easy for a person to find and use incorrectly. His gf put his handgun in her purse (even though he has trained her on gun safety and how to shoot). She was at a restaurant and was pulling out her wallet from her purse and she got her keys snagged near the trigger (no safety on, dumb), it entered her lower torso ripping through intestines and causing bad infections. She has to undergo many emergency surgeries and died once on the table. It was bad. Luckily it didn't hurt anyone else. As much as I feel for the both of them (he hasn't forgiven himself for it), and she has permanent injuries... but I still felt like if they had more responsibility then that would not have happened. He has trained a lot of people in gun safety and shooting for the military and citizens. I wanted so badly to ask him if this changed how he would store his guns and whether he would lock them up from now on, but he was in no position to talk about that subject. I had previously decided (based on his knowledge and training) that he probably knows what he is doing, so oh well, but he didn't account for this and this is why I am concerned for people carrying handguns around. No matter how trained you are an accident can happen and possibly injure someone else. I am not saying you shouldn't be able to carry, there just needs to be very stiff protocols orrr something "

Holy shit

I once knew this guy that was former military (I think he got kicked out for being crazy, as a disclaimer) and he was obsessed with his guns. Douchebag tried to bring a handgun into Busch Gardens the one time I went up there with him in our group. He started taking it out of his glove compartment and I literally said, "What the fuck do you think you're doing?"

"Well we might need protection in there!"

"You know that they have metal detectors, right?"

"Well I'll just tell them I have a conceal carry permit."

Seriously? You want to bring your fucking handgun into Busch Gardens of all places? As you can imagine, he was not allowed to bring his gun into the park.

12/9/2011 8:33:42 AM

Quote :

"It just amazes me when I hear someone say they really want a Glock .45 for home protection. "

While I agree that a pistol, in most circumstances, is not the ideal HD firearm, it's not asinine either. Almost everyone will agree that a short barrel shotgun with HD shot or some type of slug/buck is in most cases your best bet (maybe even throw a shot or two of birdshot in to cover some space ). However, lugging around a shotgun isn't practical, nor will you always have access to it. This is when a good, powerful handgun comes in handy. You can carry it easily and is readily available. Further, it's easier to lock-up when not in use/not at home (if you don't carry outside the home).

If someone is just getting one firearm and it is to stay at home at all times and for HD only, then yeh, I'd put money on a shotgun as the most effective means for HD; but if you can't get to it then it's worthless.

It comes down to this: if you have the choice and time for the choice, then a shotgun is the way to go.

12/9/2011 8:33:47 AM

^Best home defense loadout, assuming firearm is stored in the bedroom. As always, if you think there is a home-invader, first response should be to call the police (you can whisper to 911, I promise they'll hear you). A gun isn't replacement for following the law... it just supplements it on private property.

Scenario: I hear someone downstairs in my home. Wife is asleep. First thing is to quietly wake the wife, tell her to stay calm and not ask questions, and my firearm is literally 10 seconds away from where I sleep. I've already called the cops, so no reason to go looking for a fight, but I have the bedroom door locked and the barrel is pointed right at the threshold.

• 1) Buck shot - First sign of the knob shaking, one round is going through the door. Buck shot probably wouldn't go through the door (they are solid wood doors... this isn't Hollywood), but it would probably throw a little wood on the other side and let the intruder know it's a bad place to be.
  
• 2) Buck shot - Second, rack firearm, open door. This may seem like it's starting a fight, but if the intruder is armed and the first shot didn't deter them, the next time around you might be receiving fire. If they attempt to flee, let them flee. If they attempt to fight, give them the second round.
  
• 3) Buck shot - Useful in the event there is more than one intruder and someone else attempts to approach you.
  
• 4) Slug - If none of that deterred the home invader(s), it is safe to assume that this individual means you harm. From previous loadout, they are likely not feeling 100% and you are probably close enough for slugs to be effective.
  
• 5) Slug - See #4. Keep a second slug if for some reason you miss at point-blank.
  

(I'm also a big fan of letting people know you are armed, which is one reason why I don't carry a firearm in public... if I'm armed I want people to be aware, but that tends to cause public scenes. In my home, I'm a fan of racking your firearm as loud as possible. Everyone knows what that sound is and most intruders will know pretty instantly that they are in a bad place, just by that sound.)

12/9/2011 8:57:26 AM

unless you're sitting in your recliner, watching football and then someone kicks open the door. that run to the bedroom might not be feasible, hence my post.

12/9/2011 9:00:22 AM

Well, to me it's a probability game. If I'm asleep, someone can attempt entry into the house without me knowing. Probability is low, but it's still there so I arm myself in my bedroom where I can't detect someone intruding my home if I'm asleep. If someone is attempting to pick my lock with me sitting right there in my living room, then I probably have time to get whatever I need.

But a scenario where someone would just kick your door in? First of all, what the fuck kind of door do you have that you can kick it open?

I'd say if you live in a neighborhood where someone is going to gain entry into your house, forcefully, with you right there in your living room, you probably are just living in too bad an area. What do you do, walk around in your PJs with your firearm strapped to your chest?

If you're that worried, the solution is not to arm yourself with deadly force, it's to make your home a harder target. Buy a better door.

12/9/2011 9:03:40 AM

^I've heard people talking abotu having guns stashed all around the house... paranoia, probably.

Quote :

" In my home, I'm a fan of racking your firearm as loud as possible. Everyone knows what that sound is and most intruders will know pretty instantly that they are in a bad place, just by that sound.) "

no offense, but if you've got to rack your gun during a home invasion... you've probably already lost the game. (i.e. im locked and loaded, grab the gun and do the thang)




[Edited on December 9, 2011 at 9:06 AM. Reason : -]

12/9/2011 9:05:38 AM

I live in an apartment. So seeing outside my door isn't possible, because there is no window in that direction. And people get doors kicked in all the time.

These are low probability situations; however, if you're going to prepare, at least think of the likely scenarios

12/9/2011 9:06:42 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/va-tech-officer-shooting-_n_1138681.html

Quote :

"he Virginia Tech police officer who was shot dead at his parked cruiser was a trained firearms and defense instructor with a specialty in crisis intervention. Army veteran and married father of five"

that's depressing

Quote :

"State police said in a news release early Friday that ballistics tests confirmed Crouse and the deceased suspect had been shot by the same handgun. The tests have "officially linked the two fatal shootings," the release said."

12/9/2011 9:11:05 AM

I don't see racking the gun as a problem. Takes literally 2-3 seconds to rack a shotgun. If you hear someone on your stairs, it's probably going to take them longer than 2-3 seconds to get to your door.

Again, the idea isn't to take time, its to let the invader know you are a "hard target". If you run around trying to 110% make yourself invulnerable, you end up... well, like you said, with a firearm stashed all over your house and walking around in your PJs with your gun in your pocket. At that point, the likelihood from a firearm accident seems more probable than someone actually busting in your door.

---

If you are in an apartment, I see your point, but I would have the same response. If you can kick in the door to your apartment, it's a shitty door. Any apartment I stayed in during college had aluminum doors that you could beat the hell out of, but they didn't open.

I would argue that the scenario you have present is not likely, but I guess everyone's living situation is different. Just don't get mad when people call it "crazy".

12/9/2011 9:11:59 AM

Quote :

"One of my buddies works for the US Marshall service and he definitely brings his firearm into Kings Dominion, the DC Metro, Nationals Park, et al. He did let the security guys know, before he went through security, that he was a Marshall and had his firearm, just so they were aware. "

There's a big difference between a US Marshall and a crazy person that got kicked out of the military

12/9/2011 9:12:04 AM

Quote :

"But a scenario where someone would just kick your door in? First of all, what the fuck kind of door do you have that you can kick it open?"

You'd be amazed at how easy it is to kick in a door, including a solid wood door. If you kick it near the lock the door frame will bust open fairly easily

12/9/2011 9:50:15 AM