he thinks the fiscal cliff is an ACTUAL CLIFF

11/19/2012 1:39:58 PM

Quote :

"The person that prints the money gets the strongest value out of the dollar he prints."

Then why the fuck have real wages grown for fucking everybody in the entire country since the creation of the Fed? Why is the US the largest consumer on planet Earth? It's not the bankers and Ben Bernanke buying all that crap, it's the American consumer, who before the Fed was scratching in the dirt and buying toilet paper at the company store.

Quote :

"The person that saves his money gets the least value out of the dollar that was printed."

Yes, that's why he invests it. That's why it's better to put your money in a savings account instead of under your mattress. See? Inflation encourages investment.

And, seriously: Fuck people who put money under the mattress. Just because you swung a hammer in 1960 doesn't entitle you to an ipod in 2012. Labor gets more skilled day by day, so I don't see why 80-year-old labor should be valued as though it were just performed yesterday.

Do you know what would happen if everyone put their money under the mattress? Nothing would get invested, and the economy would stop growing. Deflation would set in (less money in circulation), causing even more people to put money under the mattress, and you get a deflationary spiral that causes more and more economic stagnation.

Quote :

"Printing money is a tax on saving accounts."

Savings accounts are not cash, they are investments, typically in a variety of financial instruments. Inflation hurts money kept under the mattress. That's actually why savings accounts do well, because moderate inflation encourages the investments that cause economic growth that cause savings accounts to grow.

Quote :

"Inflation is inevitable when printing money unless an equal amount is taken out of circulation. "

Only if the money enters circulation and starts passing between consumers and businesses, that's how inflation happens, by price signals that tell businesses "Wow, people are buying a lot, I guess I can raise prices". When the money is used strictly by banks for short-term loans (QE), it never enters common circulation, it instead allows short-term loans that prevent things like layoffs and liquiditions, preserving consumer demand. It doesn't go into the economy unrestricted, if it did THEN it would cause massive inflation, but that's not how QE works. You wouldn't know that, because literally the only idea you have about what QE is "Print moneys and give em to bankers to stuff in stripper g-strings"

There's also fucking reality, where we've more than tripled the monetary base in the last 10 years but inflation has stayed below 3%. What fucking planet are you living on, GeniusXBoy? The proof is in the pudding, fucking reality disagrees with your premise.



[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/19/2012 1:45:31 PM

You are posting too much and you're going to get confused.

Let's take this:

Quote :

"Then why the fuckhave real wages grown for fucking everybody in the entire country since the creation of the Fed? "

We have the most money printed than ever before. You tell me why.

Quote :

"Why is the US the largest consumer on planet Earth? "

Because people spend money

Quote :

"It's not the bankers and Ben Bernanke buying all that crap,"

Do they give out loans?

Quote :

" it's the American consumer, "

Who spends money they haven't earned yet (credit)

Quote :

"who before the Fed was scratching in the dirt and buying toilet paper at the company store."

Guess where most will end up after the the currency collapses?

11/19/2012 1:54:12 PM

Seriously, GXB, if "more QE = more inflation" were true, our dollars would be worth 1/3 as much as they were 10 years ago. Does milk cost $8 a gallon? No, it doesn't. There are variables missing in your model.

11/19/2012 1:54:55 PM

Quote :

"Seriously, GXB, if "more QE = more inflation" were true, our dollars would be worth 1/3 as much as they were 10 years ago. Does milk cost $8 a gallon? No, it doesn't. There are variables missing in your model."

The price of milk is artificially low so people like you would not notice inflation.

11/19/2012 1:58:30 PM

Quote :

"We have the most money printed than ever before. You tell me why."

It's almost as though that growing money supply corresponds to a growing pool of goods and services that it represents, so that its overall value remains the same relative to the size of the US economy and its population.

Quote :

"Because people spend money"

And how does the money get to them? Because companies invest in expansion. Why do they invest? Because if they don't, their money loses value to inflation. Moderate inflation encourages investment. Investment encourages economic growth. Economic growth improves the standard of living.

Quote :

"Who spends money they haven't earned yet (credit)"

Yup, and thanks to inflation, that debt becomes less and less burdensome as time goes on. It's kinda like how you take on debt to get a college education, get a higher-paying job, pay off the debt, and end up way more prosperous than if you had just worked for all those years without the education. It's kinda like how businesses inevitably run, you make more money in the long term if you take on debt then pay it off than if you wait 20 years to acrue the capital to start your pizza shop.

Debt and credit are good things: They allow money that's not being used to be allocated to people willing to use it. Circulation moves and grows the economy. Money sitting under a mattress accomplishes exactly nothing for the economy.

Quote :

"Guess where most will end up after the the currency collapses?"

How many more centuries until the collapse GXB? How many more QE's have to pass without hyperinflation before you start to wonder if your sources aren't talking out their asses?

How many times do you have to be proven flat out wrong, peddling urban legends and misinformation, before you start to wonder if maybe you're not the authority on this you think you are?

[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

11/19/2012 2:00:20 PM

Quote :

"The price of milk is artificially low so people like you would not notice inflation."

Right, and the fucking billion different retail items that MIT samples for their alternative inflation index are also in on the conspiracy too.



Actually, literally every single person on planet Earth is in on the conspiracy except for GXB himself, and he's found us out!

[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 2:02 PM. Reason : .]

11/19/2012 2:02:01 PM

You keep posting charts and graphs that do not represent the buying power of a dollar.


If you are looking at items that have stayed the same price, you need to ask yourself why they were immune to inflation or whether they are tricking you.

For instance, food products (fast food and grocery items) over time have become poorer in quality and the portion sizes (quantity) have been reduced to offset inflation.

It has gotten to the point that food has gotten so poor in quality that a majority of people in this country are suffering food related diseases such as high cholesterol, diabetes, and obesity.

As far as milk goes, the prices are tightly controlled by a system subsidized by the government. Here is one example of why you're not seeing inflated milk prices.

Quote :

" "Farmers say the system too often has them producing milk at a loss. "I'm getting $14.41 per hundredweight for my milk, and it's costing me $17 to $19 per hundredweight to produce it," said Mary Cameron, a dairy farmer in Kings County. http://www.modbee.com/2012/03/31/2138520/dairy-dilemma-valley-farmers-struggle.html "

11/19/2012 2:13:38 PM

Quote :

"It has gotten to the point that food has gotten so poor in quality that a majority of people in this country are suffering food related diseases such as high cholesterol, diabetes, and obesity."

The rise of those diseases have more to do with the increased life expectancy. People years ago would have died from high cholesterol if they didn't die from cholera or getting kicked in the head by a horse first.

Secondly, I'd like to try to explain why having a dynamic monetary system can actually stabilize prices. Suppose we have a world where we only have two things, widgets, and GXB Dollars ($GXB). Let's suppose that every day our people wake up and make widgets, at the end of the day, they sell their widgets to us for a set price of $10GXB, go to sleep, the next day they wake up, buy back the widgets for the same set price, and start making more. In order to be able to buy keep those widgets at $10GXB, you're going to have to print more $GXB at the same rate that they make widgets.
The exact same situation exists in the real world. Because the product of your labor doesn't disappear when you go to sleep, there must be money to keep prices stable, otherwise there would be deflation. If there is deflation I am discouraged work, as my work simply reduces the value of my currency. I am also discouraged to invest, as I now have an oppurtunity cost of just keeping the money.

[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2012 3:18:09 PM

the nutritional density of food has increased, not decreased. in agricultural food production, calories per acre have increased too.

11/19/2012 3:22:53 PM

Quote :

" If there is deflation I am discouraged work, as my work simply reduces the value of my currency. I am also discouraged to invest, as I now have an oppurtunity cost of just keeping the money. "

What's the difference between getting paid $30/hour today and getting paid $5/hour in 1913 if you can buy the same amount of goods?

11/19/2012 3:30:08 PM

It's the difference between the day to day value, If my money becomes worth more while I do nothing, why would I incur the risk of investing it?

[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 3:33 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2012 3:32:04 PM

Can you recognize the difference between deflation and the buying power of the money increasing? If so, how?

11/19/2012 3:33:31 PM

Quote :

"the nutritional density of food has increased, not decreased. in agricultural food production, calories per acre have increased too."

I'd disagree with nutritional density in regards to nutrients:calories increasing. However caloric density has sky rocketed due to processed foods.

Ideally, you want nutritionally dense, calorie less-dense foods (if you are trying to maintain or lose weight).

The more you know...

11/19/2012 3:37:21 PM

Quote :

"Can you recognize the difference between deflation and the buying power of the money increasing? If so, how?"

That's what the example was for.

11/19/2012 3:39:35 PM

The example says that 1. when you spend money the money vanishes and 2. you have to print more for people to buy things.

The money doesn't vanish when you spend it. It merely changes hands.

11/19/2012 3:54:37 PM

1. The money didn't vanish, it was traded at the beginning and end of each day.
2. You only have to print more money if you want to keep prices stable.

11/19/2012 4:10:19 PM

Quote :

"1. The money didn't vanish, it was traded at the beginning and end of each day. 2. You only have to print more money if you want to keep prices stable."

I would think supply and demand would keep prices stable. If nobody is buying your product, you'll have to lower the price, find a cheaper way of producing it, learn a new trade, OR find some way to be productive that earns money.

11/19/2012 4:54:18 PM

Quote :

"Then why the fuck have real wages grown for fucking everybody in the entire country since the creation of the Fed? Why is the US the largest consumer on planet Earth? It's not the bankers and Ben Bernanke buying all that crap, it's the American consumer, who before the Fed was scratching in the dirt and buying toilet paper at the company store."

I've never actually seen someone place the rise of the American consumer so squarely at the feet of the Fed. We can give them credit for all the good, but it's free market actors that brought down the economy, right?

The last part of your statement demonstrates such a severe detachment from reality and historical evidence that I can't bear to read the rest of the shit on this page.

11/19/2012 5:15:02 PM

Quote :

"I would think supply and demand would keep prices stable."

Supply of money is the very thing I'm illustrating. I've left all other factors constant, the thing that must change as the supply of goods change is the supply of money in order to keep prices stable.

Quote :

"If nobody is buying your product, you'll have to lower the price, find a cheaper way of producing it, learn a new trade, OR find some way to be productive that earns money."

Irrelevant. My example illustrates the relationship between the supply of goods and the supply of money, caeteris paribus.

[Edited on November 19, 2012 at 9:18 PM. Reason : ]

11/19/2012 9:18:20 PM

Quote :

"Supply of money is the very thing I'm illustrating. I've left all other factors constant, the thing that must change as the supply of goods change is the supply of money in order to keep prices stable."

I really have no idea how you correlate supply of money with stable prices other than accounting for lost, stolen, destroyed, and/or forgotten about funds. There is a coefficient that determines the rate at which money disappears from circulation. It is perfectly acceptable to replace the supply at the same rate.

But what if you flood the market with money? Let's say iIf bill gates, for instance, were to divide his fortune to everyone in the states equally and put it into circulation, it would have had a huge impact on the price of goods in the 90's. Right now, I think there is so much money out in circulation that it wouldn't have that much impact at all. When something like that happens, it's the FED's job to reel in the money.

But that's not the case here. The Fed is responsible for flooding the market with money. The FED has been giving $40 Billion to banks every month for infinity month to buy mortgages. I mean, this kind of manipulation is like playing your last $1000 on the lottery and hoping to hit $1,000,000 jackpot to pay off all your debts.

Does the chance of winning exist? yes.
Probable? Hell No.
Safe? No. Way too risky
Dangerous? Yes. You could lose everything.

11/19/2012 11:35:24 PM

Quote :

"But what if you flood the market with money?"

Prices would go up significantly, all other things equal. The FED could then raise interest rates, causing people to invest in bonds, removing some of that money from circulation.

Quote :

"The Fed is responsible for flooding the market with money."

Then why haven't prices gone up significantly?

11/20/2012 9:05:30 AM

Quote :

"I've never actually seen someone place the rise of the American consumer so squarely at the feet of the Fed. We can give them credit for all the good, but it's free market actors that brought down the economy, right?"

Christ destroyer, I'm not giving them credit for the growth of the consumer, I'm pointing out how his hyper-simplified vision of monetary policy should have destroyed the country generations ago if it were correct. Do you really wanna hop into this? Are you going to tell me how milk prices are ACTUALLY $8 but it's been suppressed?

Comon. It should be fucking obvious to you that GXB is ridiculously uninformed, and wackjobs like him give any and all skepticism of the Fed a bad name. I know YOU are skeptical of the Fed, so you have a vested interested in making sure people on your side of that fence aren't misinformed morons.

Quote :

"The last part of your statement demonstrates such a severe detachment from reality and historical evidence that I can't bear to read the rest of the shit on this page."

Lmao you lecturing somebody on being detached from reality and history. Fuck off man.

11/20/2012 9:13:09 AM

Quote :

"You keep posting charts and graphs that do not represent the buying power of a dollar."

What? If CPI inflation doesn't tell you about buying power, and the BPP doesn't, what the fuck does?

Quote :

"If you are looking at items that have stayed the same price, you need to ask yourself why they were immune to inflation or whether they are tricking you."

Milk hasn't stayed the same price, numbnuts, it has inflated, but at a mere 2-4% like every other product.

Quote :

"For instance, food products (fast food and grocery items) over time have become poorer in quality and the portion sizes (quantity) have been reduced to offset inflation. As far as milk goes, the prices are tightly controlled by a system subsidized by the government. Here is one example of why you're not seeing inflated milk prices."

You are seeing inflated prices for milk and everything else, my point was never to suggest inflation doesn't occur, just that if it were occurring according to your simplified model, it'd be leaps and bounds worse. It's not, we have more than tripled the money supply over the last ten years and inflation has stayed for the most part within the 1-4% range.

There isn't a nationwide conspiracy to to depress prices on millions of products to mask actually-huge inflation as reasonable-and-healthy inflation. Inflation just isn't as bad as your model predicts because your model is oversimplified. When Peter Thiel predicts hyperinflation next year...every year...for 5 years...there's something wrong with his model. Fucking deal with it man, don't make up conspiracies as you go to explain away these little inconsistencies with reality. Just stop reading these snake-oil-salesmen sources of yours, they're turning you (have turned you) into a paranoid nut with limitless credulity for conspiratorial babble while your actual critical thinking skills atrophy.

Quote :

"I really have no idea how you correlate supply of money with stable prices other than accounting for lost, stolen, destroyed, and/or forgotten about funds."

Because money exists to chase/represent goods and services in the economy. The amount of goods and services in the economy is not constant.


[Edited on November 20, 2012 at 9:31 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2012 9:22:12 AM

I'm not saying right, wrong, or indifferent, but the FED is not the only institution that can create money due to our Fractional Reserve system.

When someone purchases a home using a mortgage (secured debt), the bank holding the mortgage essentially creates that money because it is secured with an asset. This is grossly oversimplified, but is in essence what happens because our dollars as we know them do not represent values, but rather debts (as was somewhat explained in a link GeniuSxBoY posted here, on page 3 of this thread)

11/20/2012 11:39:17 AM

Bernanke: We Don't Have 'Tools' to Offset 'Cliff' Dive

11/20/2012 3:11:49 PM

Quote :

"Christ destroyer, I'm not giving them credit for the growth of the consumer, I'm pointing out how his hyper-simplified vision of monetary policy should have destroyed the country generations ago if it were correct. Do you really wanna hop into this? Are you going to tell me how milk prices are ACTUALLY $8 but it's been suppressed?"

I'm positive we've discussed this before.

Expansion of credit does not necessarily mean that the price of milk or wheat or whatever is going to go up. Price increases are entirely dependent on money velocity and the destination of the money. That's why stats like CPI are complete garbage. It's possible and actually likely that the prices of certain goods will decrease as a result of monetary stimulus. Looking at CPI to determine if there has been "inflation" or "deflation" (in the traditional sense) is like trying to learn the name of the cow after you've eaten the hamburger. Price fluctuations don't surface until the credit has made its way through the banking system, and when you're at that point, you simply don't have enough information to work with.

The price increases occur in the areas where credit is flowing to. Some good examples are housing, student loans, and health care. These are goods likely to be purchased with debt, and due to low interest rates across the board, there is more credit available for these advanced purchases than would otherwise be available.

^The fear in his voice is disturbing. We've known he's out of bullets, he knows it, and I can't even imagine the kind of stress that puts on a person.

[Edited on November 20, 2012 at 4:02 PM. Reason : ]

11/20/2012 3:55:04 PM

Quote :

"The fear in his voice is disturbing. We've known he's out of bullets, he knows it, and I can't even imagine the kind of stress that puts on a person."

No, what disturbs me is that the answers are on the table.
He knows he's wrong.
He knows Ron Paul is right.
Yet, he's still not seeking assistance.


Let me remind you that there is a Board of Directors making these policy decisions, not just Ben Bernanke.



Anyway, here is the banking system in layman's terms.

11/20/2012 5:25:26 PM

So... I bought some maple syrup today.

I wanted the real thing, not the fake, not-so-nutritional, ingredient-added (for saving cost, while increasing volume), artificial butter flavor without butter added, corn syrup (high and low), syrup.



If you click on this picture, you can see on the label it says "Contains no butter"


Then you have while claims "No high fructose corn syrup" but on the ingredients list, you're getting plain corn syrup (with other added ingredients.





The price of the big bottles were $2.99 for 24 oz Aunt Jemima.




Ready for where the inflation sets in?

For the cheapest offbrand food lion brand of 100% dark amber maple syrup, it cost me $4.49 for only 8 oz

The bottle is exactly the same as this except for it has a food lion label on it:


Here is a similar product that fetches $9.97 for 8.5 oz.
http://foodlion.elsstore.com/brandstores/285-maple-grove-farms/categories/1822-pure-maple-syrup/products/19431-maple-grove-farms-syrup-pure-maple-medium-amber

11/23/2012 4:33:18 PM

It would seem that the real problem here is that you don't understand what inflation is.

11/23/2012 6:50:18 PM

You can probably throw in that he doesn't understand syrup either.

11/24/2012 11:33:44 PM

Calling Mr. Joshua to debunk this

11/26/2012 3:27:14 PM

I will as soon as you explain what inflation is in your own words.

11/26/2012 3:49:33 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_arguments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_constitutional_arguments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_Sixteenth_Amendment_arguments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_statutory_arguments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_conspiracy_arguments

[Edited on November 27, 2012 at 3:17 PM. Reason : all of the links]

11/27/2012 3:10:11 PM

Quote :

"I will as soon as you explain what inflation is in your own words."

The steady increase of price due to the printing and release of money into the circulation.


If your own words, debunk the video.

11/27/2012 3:30:48 PM

Quote :

"The steady increase of price due to the printing and release of money into the circulation."

Inflation can occur anytime the demand for money decreases. Increasing money supply isn't the only way to do that.

11/27/2012 3:59:38 PM

We could have a whole forum devoted to things GeniusXBoy doesn't understand (Or has a grade-schooler's understanding of). And that forum will be called The Soap Box.

11/28/2012 10:12:21 AM

So how does a price comparison of different brands of maple syrup on the same day reflect inflation?

11/28/2012 11:03:04 AM

yeah, i really don't understand that syrup story.

11/28/2012 11:07:48 AM

I seriously can't imagine the abject terror GeniusXBoy feels in the supermarket, finding the masonic symbolism in syrup brand labels, observing 100% inflation between the off-brand and name-brand ones, knowing all along that the Council on Foreign Relations is watching him squirm through the CCTV cameras and cackling.

"He'd blow the lid off our entire operation if only we didn't keep him distracted with the spectacle of consumerism. Why oh why did we let all those uploaders on youtube get our secrets out like that? It's okay, we'll use the U.N. to control the internet soon, and it'll never happen again!"


[Edited on November 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

11/28/2012 11:41:11 AM

I just can't imagine having to play mental Jenga with everything I see. Having to explain to myself how the NWO caused a dog to crap on my lawn would just get exhausting.

11/28/2012 12:21:05 PM

Once someone gets into that conspiratorial mindset it becomes easier and easier to attribute events to the big conspiracy.

It's like that old adage that every problem starts to look like a nail when your only tool is a hammer.

11/28/2012 12:25:58 PM

Why should any of you care? You guys don't even look into the subject to find out what's real and what's not. You can joke me all you want to, but the picture that's being painted when you connect the dots is pretty gruesome. The more stuff you debunk, the stronger my knowledge gets.

You never learn lessons in victories, only defeats.

11/28/2012 1:16:59 PM

All I was saying was, I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the maple syrup story.

11/28/2012 1:19:10 PM

I think WWII was influenced by the establishment.

Paul Warburg (founding father of the FED):
-**Paul Warburg had a brother: Max Warburg.
-Warburg was born in Hamburg, Germany.
-Warburg was elected a director of Wells Fargo & Company in February 1910
-Five years from the time Mr. Warburg had begun his single-handed crusade, his ideas were place before Congress in the form of the Aldrich Bill.”
-F
ederal Reserve was created in 1913, 1 year before World War 1.

-He organized and became the first chairman of the International Acceptance Bank of New York in 1921.
-He became a director of the Council on Foreign Relations at its founding in 1921
-International Acceptance was acquired by the Bank of the Manhattan Company in 1929
-Hitler released from prison in 1924.

-Gold Coin was made illegal to own in 1933 by Roosevelt, 6 years before the second war.
-Hitler appointed Chancellor in 1933 by reluctant Germans.

-Paul Warburg had a brother: Max Warburg.
-**Beginning in 1933, Max Warburg served directly under Hjalmar Schacht on the board of the Reichsbank, under the Nazi regime, before emigrating in 1938.

Number of years between World War 1 and World War 2 (1918-1939): 21


Hitler rose to power in 8 years.
He was a nobody. He was in jail.
If we were to walk up to the establishment today, we would be pushed away and ignored.
Hitler had to be chosen by the establishment in order for the establishment to accept him.


The smoking gun.


The establishment was involved in World War II on both sides.

Max Warburg served on the board of directors of Interessen Gemeinschaft Farben or I.G. Farben, the giant German chemical firm that produced Zyklon B gas used in Nazi extermination camps.

His brother Paul Warburg(founding father of the Federal Reserve) served on the board of directors of I.G. Farben's wholly owned Ame
rican subsidiary. (However, Paul Warburg died in January 1932, before Hitler was elected Chancellor.)

The Kilgore Committee Report of 1942 indicated that all I.G. Farben board members had precise and prior knowledge that Zyklon B was being used to murder civilians in concentration camps, with no attempt made to halt production of the gas after such murders were understood. I.G. Farben was crucially instrumental in funding the rise to power of the Nazi Party, and also in building up the industrial and war-making capabilities of Germany once the Nazis were in power while simultaneously attempting to restrict industrial production materials to countries marked for invasion by Nazi Germany,

all of this to such a degree that all German board members OTHER THAN Max Warburg were charged after World War II as war criminals.

11/28/2012 1:19:46 PM

Quote :

"All I was saying was, I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the maple syrup story. "

Foolish claimed inflation has hardly touched actualized prices.
I countered that claim by showing him that price only stayed the same because the ingredients aren't the same as they used to be.
If we were to buy 100% real maple syrup, you can visually see the inflation.

11/28/2012 1:22:58 PM

hello and welcome to The Same Textwall Posted In Every Antisemitic Forum Online

11/28/2012 1:56:26 PM

hello and welcome to IM NOT GOING TO EDUCATE MYSELF forum.

11/28/2012 2:05:17 PM

Do you really believe these things or are you writing a sociology paper about our reactions?

ibtwhatiswritingapaperifwordshavenomeaning

11/28/2012 2:55:38 PM

Quote :

"Max Warburg served directly under Hjalmar Schacht on the board of the Reichsbank, under the Nazi regime, before emigrating in 1938."

Quote :

"all of this to such a degree that all German board members OTHER THAN Max Warburg were charged after World War II as war criminals."

Why would he be charged if he fled Germany in 1938?

11/28/2012 3:02:01 PM