^See? There's more out there than we think

That gas crater reminded me of Operation Gasbuggy. US Gov't used nuclear bombs to drill for natural gas, among other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasbuggy

Maj. Eaton: We have top men working on it now.
Indiana: Who?
Maj. Eaton: Top...men.

7/13/2012 9:00:13 PM

Quote :

"While drilling the Soviets accidentally tapped into a massive underground natural gas cavern, causing the ground to collapse and the entire drilling rig to fall in. "

Well you can can put your worried little head to rest. They will not have that problem drilling in the Triassic Basin.

7/14/2012 7:42:50 AM

Quote :

"Ah, so maybe if the geniuses in RTP try "just" a bit harder we'll finally figure out nuclear fusion? Seems unrealistic to me. The mindset of a lot of the people in this thread is doing more harm that good in several places around the globe. Loneshark mentioned it briefly. In Africa there is lots of opposition against constructing coal plants. Meanwhile most villages have no electricity and for heat (and cooking) they burn wood/dung/charcoal fires which are far more unhealthy as a whole than a few power plants. They are less energy efficient, encourage deforestation and give off more particle pollution. "

I don't understand why you are bringing up Africa and I fail to see how it relates to the issue in North Carolina. I understand your angle of the "lesser of two evils" but drilling for energy reserves in NC hardly compares to the general lack of resources and technology in Africa. Apples and oranges, my friend.

As far as my statement being "unrealistic", I encourage you to explain to me just what is unrealistic about it. You're the second person to imply that my assertion is unreasonable, unrealistic, or borderline fantastical. I have merely stated that, with the resources we have and with a longitudinal program of research, the state has the opportunity to not only advance knowledge when it comes to this problem/industry but become a national leader in it as well. RTP might not be the biggest research hub in the U.S. but I'm pretty sure nobody would deny that it isn't a good one. Pushing the paradigm obviously only means good things for the state. What, I must ask, is so unreasonable or unrealistic about that?

7/19/2012 3:22:17 AM

Quote :

"but drilling for energy reserves in NC hardly compares to the general lack of resources and technology in Africa."

The two are related. If we decide to lock off access to our resources then we too will find ourselves living with a general lack of resources. Africa has vast resources too, they have merely arranged their society to make it impossible to use them. So far we Americans have made ourselves free to exploit resources wherever we find them. You are in effect suggesting we should be more like Africa.

7/19/2012 7:15:11 AM

http://lesstonepublishorperish.blogspot.com/2012/05/trip-to-mordor-pa-hydrofracking-hell.html

A trip to hydrofracking hell.

7/19/2012 2:44:45 PM

http://www.reddit.com/r/geology/comments/10vj8w/can_we_please_have_a_comprehensive_discussion/

10/3/2012 3:48:15 PM

12/7/2012 10:38:05 AM

http://www.wral.com/epa-changed-course-after-oil-company-protested/11984990/

1/16/2013 12:24:18 PM

Wow. Just wow.

1/16/2013 12:28:21 PM

yep. yep.

1/16/2013 12:28:52 PM

This is why folks like you and I need to be put in charge of this so that reason and understanding can be hashed out, and not simply bought or bullied by corporate or special interests. Yes, you and I might come at it from different directions, but the idea that habitat and people's homes are expendable to suit a profit margin is appalling.

1/16/2013 12:34:25 PM

I hope everyone remembers the name Thom Tillis and everyone else who pushed this through in NC when the shit hits the fan.

1/16/2013 12:38:04 PM

^^agreed. I'm generally pro-energy exploration/pro-business; but never when it comes at the expense of people, their property, and their rights. The more I read about fracking, the more I don't like it.

1/16/2013 1:12:06 PM

Another concern that is greatly overlooked is how much fresh water is required to frack just one well. Now multiply that times the number of wells and the number of times each well can be fracked. The amount is staggering, and while the Lonesnarks will argue that water is cheap and that no one gives a damn, he overlooks things like droughts and the increased reality of water scarcity.

I am all for the use of natural gas instead of coal and tar sands oil, but every cost should be looked at during this process, and Big Oil has done it's damnedest to shelter themselves and fracking.

1/16/2013 3:06:37 PM

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a-mysterious-patch-of-light-shows-up-in-the-north-dakota-dark



wow.

1/17/2013 11:22:01 AM

wow.

1/17/2013 11:44:36 AM

What a waste. That pisses me off more than anything.

1/17/2013 4:29:35 PM

That's pretty amazing, fortunately I don't think the NC shale formations are nearly as big as the one in ND.


I'm actually really interested to see how much fracking will occur here in the state, there are lots of reasons to think rigs in NC won't be able to compete:

-Gas prices are already super low/winter has been relatively mild

-NC shale is relatively unexplored - lots of unknowns for productivity

-NC shale is smaller than formations in states like ND, TX, PA, etc

-"Fracking awareness" is pretty common - could make negotiating with landowners more difficult

-Still a chance we will have some meaningful regulation, at least when compared with other states


I think when fracking does finally get big in NC, we will know that the bigger shales are starting to get marginal and the American Fracking Boom is ending

1/17/2013 5:37:07 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/29/2641730/lawmakers-to-speed-up-fracking.html

Now the nutbags want to speed up the timetable!

I also thought this was key. The fox guarding the hen house?

Republican Mitch Gillespie, a key proponent of the fracking legislation in the House last year, is now an assistant secretary at the N.C. Department of Environment and Natural Resources, the agency that will oversee fracking safety and that supplies the staff of the commission.

1/31/2013 12:34:01 AM

Like I've said before, the areas that will be impacted the most are the ones that staunchly vote for Republicans. I'm beyond feeling sorry for them. I'm largely angered by the amount of water resources that will be used to destroy and pollute, and that it sure as hell won't be the drilling companies who will be made to cut back when NC has another drought. . .

1/31/2013 12:31:25 PM

Another reason to hate our 2 party system and only have 2 viable choices in politics.

More and more, I find myself fitting in between the Ds and Rs and no way to vote that remotely satisfies me (I know no one should ever be completely satisfied, but at least somewhat hopeful/positive about it).

Here's to drinking methane! Here's to wasting water! Here's to neighbors being fucked by big companies!

1/31/2013 12:44:55 PM

Quote :

"The commission, created last summer, is responsible for writing three reports, along with about 100 regulations covering such issues as well construction, chemical disclosures, wastewater disposal and property owners’ rights. “I tend to want to allow those processes time to get the regulatory framework right,” Tillis said during a press conference in Raleigh. But Tillis said he’s “open to suggestions about how we can move forward on fracking.” . . . . . Womack said he has heard about a variety of possible changes, including contracting with an outside firm to assemble the best practices from other states. Such a move would render the commission irrelevant and is not likely, Womack said. More likely are proposals to change the makeup of the commission and to increase funding to hire staff to assist the commission in its work, he said. etc."

In July I said:

Quote :

"So I see two things happening: The EPA will finalize its study before fracking is allowed in NC and we will be able to use its findings to craft decent regulations or we are going to get a bunch of half-assed regulations. If we are really unlucky then some of our state representatives will get their way and we will implement generic regulations that are all but written by the gas industry: http://www.southernstudies.org/2012/06/will-nc-lawmakers-let-fracking-industry-fund-its-own-regulators.html and that is exactly how we will fuck this up. We are going to get weak regulations that don't address the real problems with the industry and the industry will keep making the same mistakes like they always do. We should only consider ourselves lucky that the amount of gas we likely have is miniscule and relegated to a small corner of the state"

plz to surprise me, Tillis and Co., in regards to taking our time on this issue

1/31/2013 12:47:15 PM

I mean, is this better or worse than the decades of fucking over our water ecosystems with rampant hog farms?

1/31/2013 12:49:56 PM

a bunch of fearmongering in this thread. fracking is safe. it is clean. there is absolutely no evidence that it pollutes groundwater.

and it gives us much cheaper access to a much cleaner burning fossil fuel.

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2013 2:47:16 PM

you make that claim as if you're 100% positive, when there's no way you can be 100% positive.

1/31/2013 3:01:06 PM

^^ But you know, as well as I do, the gratuitous amounts of water that it uses. Fresh water. Drinking water. A finite resource. Water that we don't get back.

Also, do you really think that with the break neck speed at which those in the NCGA is hastily throwing this together that there will be the proper oversight the is required to buttress your bold claims? Look at the oil and gas industries' record in the past. Denial, delay, obfuscate, import bottled water for those whose lands they actually have contaminated, and then ultimately pay a paltry fine, appeal it for a reduction, and continue to laugh all the way to the bank.

I will agree that natural gas is the best transitional fossil fuel that we can utilize. But you will want to start by telling North Dakota to stop wasting a metric shit ton of natural gas that they bring up with shale which is nasty nasty nasty nasty stuff, but happens to be more profitable right now.

1/31/2013 3:14:03 PM

I've been watch a guy, admittedly on a left leaning blog, post a "friday fracking video" every week for about 2 years. A lot of people setting their water on fire (kind of a crazy concept) and other damage done by fracking. I believe he said he set out to do it once a week for a few months, before realizing that there were an unlimited supply of such videos.

1/31/2013 4:15:05 PM

If hydraulic fracturing is safe, why does it need to be exempt from both the Safe Drinking Water Act and the Clean Water Act?

http://www.independentwatertesting.com/education-center/148-what-is-the-halliburton-loophole.html

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 4:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2013 4:23:00 PM

fearmongering, it's the safest thing ever!

1/31/2013 4:27:04 PM

^^
Any pro-fracking people want to comment on this? I'm curious for your opinion.

2/1/2013 10:31:27 AM

Because strict compliance with the act would increase operating costs considerably. Mostly in the surface spill potential risk area. It would also increase the amount of time to reach productive levels by requiring additional testing at various stages that wouldn't really be applicable to such operations.

They don't have to use drinking water.

2/2/2013 9:55:24 PM

http://www.care2.com/causes/big-gas-comes-clean-carcinogens-used-in-1-out-of-3-fracking-operations.html

2/6/2013 12:19:54 PM

Quote :

" A lot of people setting their water on fire (kind of a crazy concept) and other damage done by fracking"

I don't know about everywhere, but there have been parts of the country where you could do that back in the 1700s. The gas is naturally in the water. So really...no big deal.

2/6/2013 1:09:12 PM

That's a silly argument. Just because something naturally occurs doesn't mean it's not harmful to humans....

I mean, radionuclides occur naturally in some ground water that is used for drinking. Therefore, people shouldn't worry about spent fuel rods buried in the ground above an aquifer, because radiation is naturally in ground water, so more isn't a big deal.

2/6/2013 2:19:56 PM

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/180/751/192/

2/11/2013 4:17:00 PM

Quote :

"^^ Any pro-fracking people want to comment on this? I'm curious for your opinion."

There are pro-fracking people who don't want exemption from the act, and believe fracking doesn't need it.

Quote :

"Just because something naturally occurs doesn't mean it's not harmful to humans...."

very true

2/11/2013 4:42:18 PM

http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/

2/11/2013 11:51:26 PM

http://www.wral.com/fracking-fast-track-bill-moving-ahead-in-senate/12125953/

Other changes in the bill include removing the state geologist and water and air experts from the state Mining and Energy Commission, allowing drillers to inject production waste fluids back into the ground and changing the Energy Policy Council to the "Energy Jobs Council," which involves firing and replacing everyone currently serving on that commission.

It also encourages offshore drilling exploration, repeals the law requiring "land men" to register with the state and streamlines the permitting process to a single permit, removing checkpoints at which DENR could look for problems.


If this doesn't wake people up I don't know what will!

2/19/2013 7:01:41 PM

I think the answer is nothing will. Since the GOP has super-majorities in the state house and senate, and with the new district maps, that's not likely to change this decade, I don't think we can expect a change in policy direction any time soon. The only open question is where the gubernatorial candidates in 2016 will stand on these issues and how much damage will have been done by then.

My hope is that the media might at least catch on and report on it more. Progress energy already had its long range plan public hearing in Raleigh, but they'll have another opportunity for public comment soon for the rate hake.

http://www.ncwarn.org/2012/12/progress-rate-hike-hearing-raleigh/

Quote :

"Start: March 13, 2013 7:00 PM Cost: Free Venue: NC Utilities Commission Address: Dobbs Building, 430 North Salisbury Street, Room 2115, Raleigh, United States, 27603"

Any North Carolinian can go there around 7pm, write their name down on the sign up sheet, and give or read out a 3 minute public statement. Media will be there too. For people looking for a chance to take a stand against fracking, that's a good opportunity.

[Edited on February 19, 2013 at 8:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2013 8:52:09 PM

Haha I like the irony of the republicans... Talk about encouraging science and engineering in schools and firing scientist and engineers they don't agree with.

[Edited on February 19, 2013 at 9:04 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2013 9:03:29 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/04/2725177/coastal-counties-could-get-fracking.html

Quote :

"Forty years ago, when North Carolina banned using deep wells to permanently dump industrial waste, some thought the issue had been decided for good. Now state lawmakers who want to turn North Carolina into the nation’s next fracking hotspot are reopening the case for injecting brines and toxins deep underground."

Quote :

"Many lawmakers assume the injection wells, which can accept waste for years from multiple fracking operations, would be located near the fracking sites. Now it’s becoming clear that coastal residents and businesses could also be affected if fracking gets under way several hundred miles inland."

So not only are we going to mess up the triangle with fracking and dumping here, but we'll also pollute the eastern and coastal region of the state because there's no farming or tourism there.



[Edited on March 5, 2013 at 1:28 PM. Reason : .]

3/5/2013 1:27:20 PM

Fracking protest tomorrow (Tuesday) 3/19 at 6pm by the museums on Jones St. across from the NCGA building organized by Food and Water Watch NC. It is against SB 76

http://act.foodandwaterwatch.org/site/Calendar?view=Detail&id=103041&autologin=true

3/18/2013 2:02:43 PM

^^ugh that sounds horrible. WTF

3/19/2013 1:38:56 PM

Here is coverage from yesterday's protest:
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9033946

3/20/2013 9:56:21 AM

^^i would assume that you wouldn't think it's a big deal, since there's already toxins naturally in the ground. at least, that was the logic you used earlier on this page.

3/20/2013 10:09:15 AM

Wait till he posts a "you are here!" graphic with an arrow pointing to somewhere in Mebane or Somalia or somewhere else not at all where we are

3/20/2013 10:24:15 AM

This thread is depressing as hell.

3/20/2013 3:37:16 PM

^^lol

^^^and yes, b/c natural toxins and ones intentionally put there are the same thing. And the way you're trying to spin my words is ridiculously sloppy and ineffective.

[Edited on March 20, 2013 at 3:48 PM. Reason : k]

3/20/2013 3:46:50 PM

So gas naturally seaping into some water bodies is the same thing as gas that is unnaturally released due to fracking?

3/20/2013 3:53:08 PM

http://www.wral.com/both-sides-agree-on-tough-new-fracking-standards/12247143/

3/20/2013 5:46:27 PM