Quote :

"But the basic concept, that of simplifying the tax code and lowering rates, is one that would absolutely benefit the economy."

How? You're not making any sense. You're saying that revenue neutral tax reform which results in middle class earners paying more and the rich paying less benefits everyone. That's bullshit and you're a moron for buying it.

10/4/2012 2:46:55 PM

When he says things like "broadening the tax base", that gives you some indication on what class of people he's coming after to fund his 20% tax "cut" to remain revenue neutral.

[Edited on October 4, 2012 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/4/2012 2:54:22 PM

I was surprised to see Obama not blast Romney on his criticism of Obama not expanding oil and gas exploration on public, government owned land instead of just private land.

By and large this "public land" = national parks and wildlife reserves.

10/4/2012 2:55:12 PM

Is there an argument for the deficit neutral plan based on projected increases in tax revenue due to stimulated growth? That's how I interpreted Romney's argument.

10/4/2012 2:58:26 PM

You mean trickle down economics? Yeah, that's working.

10/4/2012 3:14:18 PM

Is there an augment? Of course there is. More tax payers equals more tax revenue obviously. Problem is what evidence is there that anything he has proposed will actually stimulate growth? Or are you assuming that supply sure will suddenly start working?

10/4/2012 3:16:27 PM

Quote :

"How? You're not making any sense. You're saying that revenue neutral tax reform which results in middle class earners paying more and the rich paying less benefits everyone. That's bullshit and you're a moron for buying it."

I already spelled it out for you. Virtually every tax deduction, exemption, credit and loophole represents a giveaway to a special interest. Whether it is a deduction for homeowners, those with children, people who get their health insurance through their employer, etc, it represents a distortion of a market, and another hole in the leaky sieve that is our current tax code.

Other countries don't corrupt their tax code in order to reward powerful special interests. The US is somewhat unique in this respect. We do it on the individual side, and we do it on the corporate tax side as well. Any economist will tell you that it is a grossly inefficient practice. Scrapping the tax code, cutting rates and paying for it by capping / eliminating deductions will absolutely benefit the economy.

10/4/2012 3:26:03 PM

Ok, fine. Let's say assume everything you're saying is true. Hell, I'll even go a step further and say that it will benefit the economy, if for no other reason than I don't have to waste money on expensive tax software or pay a CPA to do my taxes. Now, square that with Romney's claim that he will also reduce the deficit, while also increasing military spending and not affecting entitlement benefits. Where does the money come from? How does the math add up?

10/4/2012 3:50:46 PM

What country doesn't corrupt their tax code?

10/4/2012 3:54:26 PM

nm, thought this was chit chat

[Edited on October 4, 2012 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ]

10/4/2012 3:54:29 PM

Adding to the workforce = more people paying taxes instead of collecting benefits = more revenue.

10/4/2012 3:57:16 PM

When my effective tax rate is 16% but Romney's is 13%, the loopholes I take advantage of aren't the problem. It's his.

10/4/2012 4:01:25 PM

this is really the extent of the thinking that you have to do regarding romney's tax plan:

let's say that this works perfectly, he lowers the effective tax rate and balances that completely by removing enough deductions, so it's revenue neutral. that means that the same amount of tax dollars are coming in each year. this either accomplishes nothing except making it easier to file taxes, or it accomplishes something by way of shifting the tax burden from one demographic to another. those are the only two outcomes. either everyone pays the exact same amount in taxes, or some people pay more and some people pay less. i can't emphasize enough that these are the only two possible outcomes.

now look at who is in favor of this tax plan. those are probably the same people who will benefit, i.e. who will be paying less taxes. those happen to be the super wealthy.

the only way that you can change the tax code without increasing taxes on the middle class and keep the change totally neutral is to pass the burden to either the upper class or the lower class. the only morally acceptable answer here is to shift the burden to the upper class... but i'm pretty sure that romney is not planning on doing that.

10/4/2012 4:57:01 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-mocks-romney-getting-tough-big-bird-165202158--election.html

Quote :

""When I got onto the stage, I met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney," he told cheering supporters here. "But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney, because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts that favor the wealthy." "The fellow onstage last night said he didn't know anything about that," Obama said. The president then gave the same treatment to Romney on education and other issues—and hit back at one of Romney's debate zingers, "I maybe need to get a new accountant," uttered in a spat about outsourcing and whether companies can take a tax deduction for shipping jobs overseas."

10/4/2012 5:02:27 PM

I think what happened was that Obama was debating governor of Massachusetts mitt, not Republican presidential candidate mitt.

Governor of Mass mitt wouldn't actuall be that terrible as president since he isn't so different from Obama, but it's hard to know who the real mitt is.

10/4/2012 5:49:38 PM

Quote :

"What country doesn't corrupt their tax code?"

"Everyone else is doing it, why can't I?" has never been a valid excuse.

10/4/2012 5:54:38 PM

it is a valid question when the claim was:

Quote :

"Other countries don't corrupt their tax code in order to reward powerful special interests. The US is somewhat unique in this respect. "

What other countries?

10/4/2012 5:57:43 PM

true that.

10/4/2012 5:59:20 PM

There is not a single country in the world that has the level of tax breaks and credits that we do. Our tax code is, by far, the most complicated one.

So to answer your question, all of them.

10/4/2012 7:43:21 PM

Don't change your definition, you said any deduction or anything is corrupting it. So... What country?

10/4/2012 8:01:17 PM

Quote :

"Our tax code is, by far, the most complicated one."

that's not really relevant though.

changing the tax code so that it's simpler is one thing. changing it so that everyone pays less taxes but the same amount of taxes are somehow raised is an entirely different thing.

10/4/2012 8:29:22 PM

And it doesn't mean something is better because its simpler. It would be very simple to charge everyone a flat 50% tax, but no one will tell you that's better.

10/4/2012 8:34:32 PM

true enough.

10/4/2012 9:17:58 PM

Quote :

" I already spelled it out for you. Virtually every tax deduction, exemption, credit and loophole represents a giveaway to a special interest. Whether it is a deduction for homeowners, those with children, people who get their health insurance through their employer, etc, it represents a distortion of a market, and another hole in the leaky sieve that is our current tax code. Other countries don't corrupt their tax code in order to reward powerful special interests. The US is somewhat unique in this respect. We do it on the individual side, and we do it on the corporate tax side as well. Any economist will tell you that it is a grossly inefficient practice. Scrapping the tax code, cutting rates and paying for it by capping / eliminating deductions will absolutely benefit the economy."

So you agree that we should get rid of the current capital gains rate right?

10/4/2012 9:45:11 PM