I don't want any of YOU PEOPLE complain about Social Security down the road. Illegal immigrants are our only hope.

11/17/2012 2:13:58 AM

Quote :

"Also, I am tired of treating the subject as if it's a decision."

wat?

it certainly is a decision. my wife and i decided not to have children. i'll be getting a vasectomy as soon as i can find a doctor who is childfree-friendly.

[Edited on November 17, 2012 at 8:21 AM. Reason : adfs]

11/17/2012 8:19:59 AM

A lot of people don't have kids because it just doesn't happen for them: they're too busy with work, they don't find the right person, they can't actually have them, they don't have the money, it's too late, etc... And a lot of people have kids (or more kids) because they accidentally got pregnant.

For a lot of people, it's not a hard, calculating decision. But, for some reason, childless people are expected to defend or explain their "decision," and parents strut around, pretending like their pregnancies were planned, and they chose to partake in the precious gift of life...

11/17/2012 8:48:47 AM

I'm not judging or anything, but you are an absolute monster that is completely dead inside if you don't want to have children.

11/17/2012 9:36:26 AM

When I was younger, I wanted to have kids. I still do, but I think I'm okay if I only have 1. Been married 3 years, but we'll start trying after year 5.

11/17/2012 10:28:51 AM

When I was younger I was adamant on no. Now I'm not sure. And not knowing for sure one way or the other sucks. I feel like I'd miss out on something no matter what I decide.

11/17/2012 11:31:41 AM

My wife and I have been married for nine years; she's 31 and I'm 30. We're not planning to have any children.

11/17/2012 4:39:49 PM

11/17/2012 4:52:03 PM

While I would like children, I am realistic in knowing not everyone is able to have children. Maybe that's me being paranoid because of where I work, but I make sure to remind myself of that.

In the instance we can't have children for whatever reason (meaning aside from adoption because I wuld never go through an IVF saga), I would definitely see purpose in my life still. I think my work alone gives me purpose in life - I am lucky in that I truly have a job that can make a difference in someone's world. I don't say the whole world because it's not like I am creating some awesome invention or anything, but I have had moments with patients where no one would stop and take the time to just talk with them, explain things, ask what they needed from anybody at that point, etc, until I came along. Or, I was the one to shatter everything they knew then help them pick of the pieces. :/ That might not make sense to some, but to me that is making a difference because I am giving the information that is essentially making their lives so much more understandable, even if it considered bad news to some. Hopefully that whole block of text made sense.


And jbrick, tell your future wifey there isn't some crazy jump in risks once she turns 35

11/18/2012 10:22:05 AM

seriously, I don't understand why others are so concerned about the personal decisions other people make [that don't hurt others]... it goes beyond whether people choose not to have children or not. (gays living how they want to is the main example I'm thinking about, but there are many others.)

11/18/2012 1:39:26 PM

[Edited on November 18, 2012 at 2:52 PM. Reason : ]

11/18/2012 2:50:31 PM

Affirmation. When people are doing the same thing as you, it apparently affirms that you are doing the right thing--even if you're unhappy. In fact, it affirms your life especially if you're unhappy because if you were happy, then you wouldn't even think about what other people are doing.

Sort of the opposite of affirmation...I've made bad choices, and as a result, I'm underemployed and make very little money, and I've noticed a few (unhappy) people are really bothered that I'm generally a content person. You did the wrong thing, and I did the right thing...so why are you happier than me? It's not fair.

11/18/2012 2:52:36 PM

Quote :

"For a lot of people, it's not a hard, calculating decision. But, for some reason, childless people are expected to defend or explain their "decision," and parents strut around, pretending like their pregnancies were planned, and they chose to partake in the precious gift of life..."

A lot of the people in this thread have DECIDED not to have children, though. It really IS a decision for a lot of us, it's not just because we're too busy or infertile. But you're right, I shouldn't have to defend myself to anyone.

Also, to those of us who have decided not to, the right word would be "childfree" not "childless."

[Edited on November 18, 2012 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

11/18/2012 4:04:18 PM

Engaged here, will be married as of next May. I'm 32 and she's 31. We do plan on having them, 1 or 2, definitely no more than that, but it will wait until she's done with grad school (end of 2014) at least. And I want to have a year or two of being able to go where we want and do what we want while financially comfortable (we're okay right now as I have a decent job, but time is a scarce commodity). Time is going to become an issue though--Dawn will turn 35 about 1.5 years after finishing school. And while that's no longer a huge red flag, we want to be done well before 40 as the risks for problems do *soar* the closer you get there. Not to mention I'm not sure how cool I am with being 60+ by the time the child is out of college.

At times I feel like I'm making an irresponsible choice. Yes, the world has too many people already. Yes, each additional person in a western culture contributes a disproportionate share of pollution and consumes an outsized amount of resources. And there's no guarantee that we'll be good parents or that our kids won't despite best efforts turn out to be worthless or actively bad. It's selfish, fiscally irresponsible, and just may be morally wrong. But I still want a family. I just do.

But far be it from me to ever look down on someone who makes the choice not to have children. I actually admire them in many respects. But it's just not for me.

Quote :

"And yet there are not enough highly educated people, the kind that will find a way for us to use our limited resources more efficiently and (hopefully) share them in a way that benefits everyone."

I used to feel this way, but now I think that the problem isn't a shortage of highly educated people but instead a surplus of uneducated people. We can't make more children to keep up with the uneducated, we just need to do what we can to make positive changes that bring those birthrates down.

11/18/2012 4:13:05 PM

Someone mentioned how their dog greets them as if it hasnt seen them for 10 years evertime they come home, and this was mentioned in the context of how they could be seen as a replacement for having kids.

And minutes later i stumbled upon this (and that also because i followed the linked comic on the previous page), which mentions both things!
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox

11/18/2012 5:24:39 PM

Married-- I'm 30 and my wife is 32. I had a vasectomy several summers ago-- best decision I've ever made. It rules being able to go out whenever we want and spend money on stupid shit without feeling that we should be saving it for or spending it on a kid

11/18/2012 11:42:03 PM

Quote :

" At least with children there are milestones, things to look forward to, years of growth and change, and a purpose to what you do other than your own shits and giggles."

I have to disagree with this statement. Without kids there are also milestones for couples to reach. I've been married to my wife for over 9 years and there's still new things I discover about her. I have many things that I look forward to with her. As a couple and as individuals I know there's been a bunch of change and most definitely growth for both of us.

I realize what you're saying, but there are plenty of things that happen in our lives that someone with kids might not experience. The same is true that those of us without kids won't get to experience the ways it changes the dynamic of a relationship.

To me it doesn't matter if you have kids, because you could be a fat lazy family that does nothing. What sort of growth and milestones would you experience in that lifestyle? Life is truly what you make of it, kids or not. That's mainly why I disagree with that thought.





Back to the OP, would like to have kids, have way too much debt now to think about it. Plan on trying in a couple of years

11/19/2012 12:39:28 AM

Quote :

"And jbrick, tell your future wifey there isn't some crazy jump in risks once she turns 35"

I don't think its the risks, it's the question of fertility. Her sister and brother in-law tried to have kids for a couple years around the 30-year old mark and failed. She's worried she might have the same problems (and we're already past 30).

You also can't reason with women.

11/19/2012 6:53:28 AM

kids are for niggers and white trash.

11/19/2012 8:03:31 AM

Quote :

"seriously, I don't understand why others are so concerned about the personal decisions other people make [that don't hurt others]"

Um other people's children totally affect you and everyone else. Not on an individual basis but overall.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/19/2012 8:20:18 AM

Quote :

"Not on an individual basis"

11/19/2012 8:22:41 AM

And your individual car isn't depleting the atmosphere either.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/19/2012 8:27:06 AM

I fail to see the point of your argument... i guess you are just trolling. (as usual)

11/19/2012 8:30:31 AM

Doug stanhope said it best

in that video i posted on the last page

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/19/2012 8:36:19 AM

Quote :

"And jbrick, tell your future wifey there isn't some crazy jump in risks once she turns 35 "

not autism?

where'd i read that

11/19/2012 12:33:45 PM

Quote :

"We can't make more children to keep up with the uneducated, we just need to do what we can to make positive changes that bring those birthrates down."

Wrong, we can. We just won't. I'm not arguing to change it, I just want to make it crystal clear that you're wrong. Because that's what I do here.

Quote :

"and parents strut around, pretending like their pregnancies were planned, and they chose to partake in the precious gift of life..."

Well... for some parents it was planned. So those people aren't pretending their pregnancies were planned. Maybe you know many people who had unplanned children and strutted like they planned it. Because you have bad friends.

Quote :

"I'm not judging or anything, but you are an absolute monster that is completely dead inside if you don't want to have children."

"I'm not judging or anything"

Quote :

"And jbrick, tell your future wifey there isn't some crazy jump in risks once she turns 35"

True. 35 isn't the end, only the beginning of the end.

11/19/2012 1:09:39 PM

True, true

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/5/2013 4:32:06 PM

Early 30s and wife is almost in here 30s and we've been married only a bit over a year.

I don't want kids but my wife does so I suppose we'll have one. When I hear people talking about child-rearing I think, "Man, that sucks ass." Would be happy if you could drop a baby off in the woods for a wolfpack to raise and they'd come back in ten years wise in the ways of the world.

3/5/2013 10:34:47 PM

omg

3/5/2013 10:41:05 PM

^^ So did you just resign yourself before you proposed to father a child you don't actually want?

I know there's something to be said for wanting your spouse to be happy and fulfill their desires, but I think it's so very sad for the child, and for your wife, that you're forcing yourself to have a kid you don't want. I hope you don't turn out like the people who do that, then slowly grow to resent their spouse and their child for all the things they could be doing if they'd gotten their way and not had kids.

3/5/2013 11:13:20 PM

Yeah, I was going to ignore the post...but don't do it, Wintermute. You wrote multiple sentences about not wanting to do it, and that's a lot of sentences for the Internet.

Your wife is going to gain weight. Your kid will definitely be obnoxious--they all are. Everything is going to change. Seriously, whatever circumstances allow you to be all laid-back about this decision will change.

You should have checked with the lady about the baby thing before you married her. It was a big mistake not to do that. No need to make it worse by having a kid you don't want. You will get divorced and be one of those dads trying to get to know (and like) your kid over ice cream on the weekends.

3/5/2013 11:32:07 PM

Quote :

"I think it's so very sad for the child, and for your wife, that you're forcing yourself to have a kid you don't want. I hope you don't turn out like the people who do that, then slowly grow to resent their spouse and their child for all the things they could be doing if they'd gotten their way and not had kids."

I think that it is worth sharing that my mother's first husband was killed by a horse 16 years into their marriage. With her first husband, she had a son and really thought that she was done with children. My mother's second husband was ten years younger than she was and he wanted to have children. Even though she didn't really feel the need for children, she had them: me and my younger brother 17 months later (he was an accident). As fate would have it, her second husband (my father) was killed in a car accident less a year after my younger brother was born.

My mother was extremely bitter that she had two small children to raise alone in her early 40s. Her first child was grown and in college. She had no desire to raise more children, especially alone. She had no problem letting my younger brother and I know that she only had us for our father's sake. It was very painful to grow up knowing that I really wasn't wanted by my mother and that the person who really wanted me was dead.

I don't think that it is a terrible thing to have children in less than ideal circumstances. I really do not blame my mother for having children for my father when she didn't have a deep desire for more children because she couldn't have predicted that she would have been widowed a second time.

Just for Pete's sake, don't ever let your children know that they were somehow a compromise or less than ideal outcome.

3/5/2013 11:32:34 PM

Whoa. I just want to hug you right now. Wow.

3/5/2013 11:37:16 PM

Honestly, it really messed me up for a number of years. It wasn't until I had my own children that I really dealt with it. I now understand that my mother did the best that she could with the circumstances that she was given. Parents are not perfect and they do not have all of the answers. They limp along, sometimes selfishly and myopically, just like everyone else. As an adult, I have learned to love my mother without expecting anything from her and value our friendship.

3/5/2013 11:45:57 PM

To clarify, it is infants & very young children that don't interest me at all. When kids get old enough to where they can hold a conversation & keep up with you a bit they then become more interesting.

3/6/2013 12:11:05 AM

I totally get couples that enjoy hanging out and don't want to have kids. But that baby gene is going to kick in at some, believe that.

3/6/2013 12:14:53 AM

^^I'm sure that you've heard this before, but I want to reiterate that it is soooooooo true: "It's totally different when they're your own."

3/6/2013 12:17:42 AM

it'd be too insincere to just quote punchmonk, but i would also give you a hug right now.

oh but i came in here to be like "holler @ not having any kids or wives".

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 12:44 AM. Reason : .]

3/6/2013 12:39:14 AM

Quote :

"You should have checked with the lady about the baby thing before you married her."

this x 1million

please, don't have children. Not because you probably wouldnt end up being a great dad inspite of everything, but because you'd be bitter and resentful everytime being a father intervened.

you're a human, it happens.


dont have children

and 35 is the beginning of the end. second that as well



today we all hug bottombaby

3/6/2013 1:54:18 AM

Engaged. I am 26 and she 23. Will be 27/24 by the time we tie the knot. We are aiming for 30/27 for kid #1

3/6/2013 7:23:05 AM

I think everyone should back off the ledge and quit telling that guy not to have kids. Just going from all of the "accident" babies that pop up all the time (or maybe that's just me...all my friends are having "mistakes") and end up having loving parents...I don't think its fair to judge someone who is in a solid relationship and who loves his spouse. I think he can make it work. He loves his wife and looks like he is going to support her in this matter. And like has already been said, "it's different when its your own." This doesn't sound like a bottombaby situation...which is a little extreme.

Back to the topic...the fiancee and I actually had a big fight about this recently. It obviously came after a decent amount of drinking and caught me completely off guard. And it definitely wasn't a "I want to have kids and you don't" type of argument. It was a, "when do you think we'll have kids?" and a "when we're financially and mentally ready to have them"...somehowthisturnedintoascreamingmatch type fight.

First...I definitely don't want a kid RIGHT NOW. I'm completely happy with my life. The lady and I don't get a ton of free time, but when we do, I enjoy not being tied down with a kid. A kid would completely tie up all of our "out-of-work" time at this moment. I'm not quite ready for that.

Second...I can afford a kid, but it would definitely put a HUGE strain on the budget. My business is growing, but it's not yet to the point where I feel that I won't be incredibly stressed financially if my fiancee/wife gets pregnant.

I can tell that my fiancee is incredibly worried about not being able to have kids. She'll be 32 when we tie the knot. Her sister has been trying to have kids since she was 30 and hasn't been successful (she 35 now)...and they've tried everything save adoption. There are obviously the statistics that state it becomes much more difficult when you get in your mid-30s. Then you have the fact that EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMOTHER around us is popping out their first, if not second kid.

Its just a little annoying. I'm 99.9% certain that if we were in our mid-to-late 20s and everyone else wasn't starting families, that this would never get brought up. I want kids...I just don't want them now. But it basically got to the point where I was like..."fuck it...lets do it now, why even wait." Obviously I said that to try and end the fight (and end it in a sexual manner)...and obviously it didn't work.

I MIGHT get a year of kid-free marriage before the SO starts skipping birth control...

3/6/2013 7:23:18 AM

Quote :

"jbrick83: I think everyone should back off the ledge and quit telling that guy not to have kids. Just going from all of the "accident" babies that pop up all the time (or maybe that's just me...all my friends are having "mistakes") and end up having loving parents...I don't think its fair to judge someone who is in a solid relationship and who loves his spouse. I think he can make it work. He loves his wife and looks like he is going to support her in this matter. And like has already been said, "it's different when its your own." This doesn't sound like a bottombaby situation...which is a little extreme."

I don't see how we can look at current statistics and be confident that this will work out for him at all.

And I'm definitely not judging him. A lot of people feel like Wintermute does, but they don't have the balls to say it out loud or even acknowledge it in their own minds. The honesty he demonstrated here is admirable. I dunno...maybe he's a special person and can pull this thing off.

Surprise babies are a different story because the person hasn't yet considered whether they want children or not. When you've considered it and decided you don't want them, it's generally not a good idea to choose to have them. And some people do realize after the fact that the kid's not so bad, and they actually like it, but again...statistics.

3/6/2013 8:06:13 AM

He just needs to decide if he loves his wife more than he hates kids.

3/6/2013 8:21:01 AM

Quote :

"Its just a little annoying. I'm 99.9% certain that if we were in our mid-to-late 20s and everyone else wasn't starting families, that this would never get brought up. I want kids...I just don't want them now. But it basically got to the point where I was like..."fuck it...lets do it now, why even wait." Obviously I said that to try and end the fight (and end it in a sexual manner)...and obviously it didn't work. "

If you want them, stop waiting: you're not in your mid-to-late twenties

and from what everyone's said, there's never a good time to have kids, fyi

she's coming up on the age where it'll be difficult whenever it is you "decide" you suddenly want them

shit or get off the pot at this point, man

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 8:26 AM. Reason : *To be fair, I will never have children, so we don't fight about this! ]

3/6/2013 8:26:26 AM

Quote :

"and from what everyone's said, there's never a good time to have kids, fyi"

That's a pretty dumb blanket statement.

3/6/2013 8:35:10 AM

of course it's a blanket statement

I'm just saying, if you're putting it off until you "have enough money," you'll never end up having kids

I'm sorry you can't see that, and that you want things to be only when you want them

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 8:38 AM. Reason : but you're going to have a wife who wants kids sooner than later]

3/6/2013 8:36:30 AM

Nah...If I had about $20k more in savings (which I'm probably a year or two away from having)...then I'd be 100% okay with having a kid right now.

Money has always been an issue with me and I've always had a certain amount I've wanted to have "stowed away" before I could do certain things. I had monetary goals in mind before I would (1) Backpack Europe, (2) Open up my own law firm, and (3) Propose.

I hit all three of those goals and ended up doing all three of those things. Same thing with a kid.

Could we financially support a pregnancy and having a kid right now? Sure. Would I be less stressed out if I had a little bit more time and financial cushion? Definitely.

3/6/2013 8:40:41 AM

Quote :

"You will get divorced and be one of those dads trying to get to know (and like) your kid over ice cream on the weekends."

I'd say 50% of my k-12 school friends had divorced parents. They all turned out fine. I'd love to see the stats on what % of the population was unplanned

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/6/2013 8:47:45 AM

Of course, they turn out fine.

But divorce with kids is still something that people try to avoid.

Right?

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 8:51 AM. Reason : ?]

3/6/2013 8:50:49 AM

Quote :

"I'm just saying, if you're putting it off until you "have enough money," you'll never end up having kids"

Or they might have birth defects since the mother is old. You'll need that money then.

3/6/2013 8:55:08 AM