"Gay marriage support hits new high in Post-ABC poll"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/18/gay-marriage-support-hits-new-high-in-post-abc-poll/

Quote :

"The poll shows that 58 percent of Americans now believe it should be legal for gay and lesbian couples to get married; 36 percent say it should be illegal. Public attitudes toward gay marriage are a mirror image of what they were a decade ago: in 2003, 37 percent favored gay nuptials, and 55 percent opposed them. The Supreme Court takes up the issue of gay marriage next week, and nearly two-thirds of all Americans say the matter should be decided for all states on the basis of the U.S. Constitution, not with each state making its own laws. Among young adults age 18 to 29, support for gay marriage is overwhelming, hitting a record high of 81 percent in the new poll."

And there's this today:

3/18/2013 2:57:08 PM

Wow, that's pretty staggering.

10 years for a major social reversal seems pretty quick. I wonder what other things could shift like that in 10 years.

3/18/2013 5:10:58 PM

http://reason.com/archives/2013/03/19/the-federalist-case-against-the-defense

I don't like DOMA's chance of being upheld for several reasons, the federalism argument is convincing and could swing at least one of the more conservative judges. Good.

3/19/2013 6:01:53 PM

Lines are already forming outside the Supreme Court as of Thursday. Either way it goes, this will be a pretty historic case.

3/22/2013 10:58:35 PM

The countdown continues:



There are vigils being held around the state and around the country this week. Here's the line up for North Carolina:

Asheville
http://www.facebook.com/events/521879764529059/

Charlotte
http://www.facebook.com/events/442505179167652/

Fayetteville
http://www.facebook.com/events/617322361616643/

Greensboro
http://www.facebook.com/events/232926090178575/

Hickory
http://www.facebook.com/events/147687202065743/

Liberty
http://www.facebook.com/events/433409716742062/

New Bern
http://www.facebook.com/events/443003222447202/

Raleigh
http://www.facebook.com/events/148817618616571/

Winston-Salem
http://www.facebook.com/events/190910571033281/

Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/events/132243633620597/

3/23/2013 2:55:06 PM

Scalia is going to fuck this

3/23/2013 5:00:34 PM

You mean, Antonin "I'm principled unless my personal values are threatened" Scalia? NAAAHHHHH

3/23/2013 5:01:58 PM

Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsberg, and Breyer are the left leaning block, so that's 4 votes against DOMA. Thomas, Alito, Scalia, and Roberts are the right leaning block, so that is a tie.

Kennedy has is kind of a swing conservative, but has written two opinions in favor of LGBT equality before.

After the Obamacare ruling, some are speculating whether or not Roberts might be more pliable, but I don't really buy it. The argumentation they use seems to go that he could strike down the voting rights act and strike down DOMA while advocating for individual liberty in both cases rather than using broader classifications of peoples... if I'm following that right?

And then there's the legacy argument too with 81% of people under 30 supporting marriage equality. For Kennedy in particular who would have the opportunity to write the majority opinion, that might be something that matters.

All in all, I like the chances for DOMA dying.

3/23/2013 8:06:52 PM

Maybe I'm naïve, but I just don't see any way that DOMA isn't DOA. I just hope that they use the deathblow as an opportunity to establish significant precedent for the restoration of limited government and broader individual liberty.

3/25/2013 1:45:11 AM

Can amendment one be tossed on the basis of a Federal ruling?

3/26/2013 8:56:47 AM

The Prop 8 case has a better chance of doing that, but that case isn't as strong.

This case is about federal recognition, they aren't even including that part of DOMA that is about states recognizing other states.

3/26/2013 9:31:42 AM

^^Maybe. It's seeming more likely that DOMA & Prop 8 will die with these cases, but nothing more broad. That'd still be largest single advancement towards marriage equality in our country's history, so I'd take it.

Outside the Supreme Court:




Log Cabin Republicans:


Olson & Boies (lawyers from opposite sides during Bush v Gore together on this one) speaking about how things went:

3/26/2013 1:54:16 PM

Personally, I think Prop 8 is either going to be struck down narrowly inside the state of California or the whole case simply struck down due to standing questions. No thoughts on which way DOMA will go however, but in general, it sounds like the SCOTUS is hesitant to rule definitively one way or other and is willing to just let the debate continue in the public sphere.

3/26/2013 3:16:09 PM

I knew that Scalia is against homosexual activity, but I am still amazed by Scalia's comments. He made such simple aaronburro-esque questions, that I just can't believe they came from a supreme court justice. It is simply astonishing that a judge on the highest court would establish such simple, easy to refute arguments.


Scalia is the worst, way to go Reagan!

3/26/2013 3:39:01 PM

I'm not too surprised.

The older i get, the more it occurs to me that the same dumb people i was surrounded by in high school are the same dumb people to permeate the "professional" world.

With at most 5% of the country being actually intelligent, it isn't too shocking when an idiot makes it to a high post.

3/26/2013 6:44:06 PM

^

3/26/2013 8:33:46 PM

Yep, top 5% corresponds to an IQ of ~125, which is meaningfully above average but nothing supremely, stunningly intelligent. It's on the order of 2 standard deviations above the mean.

In other terms, it's basically 1 SD above there +1 and -1 sigma spread that comprises the heart of the "bell curve".

In most simple terms, the difference between someone with gifted intelligence and the average person is akin to the difference between the average person and being 'tarded.

3/26/2013 10:01:16 PM

thanks for teaching us how IQ scales work?

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/26/2013 10:35:33 PM

Just putting it into perspective how dumb people are.

3/26/2013 10:43:06 PM

Quote :

"the difference between the average person and being 'tarded."

relatively, that's a pretty big difference isn't it?

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 PM. Reason : ^i hear you]

3/26/2013 10:44:11 PM

^^ gotcha

But sadly, I know

3/26/2013 10:49:44 PM

^^ Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you are of at least fairly above average intelligence, there's a reason that almost everyone around you seems to be so fucking stupid that it's a miracle that they don't find a way to get themselves dead just about every day.

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 10:52 PM. Reason : and that they seemingly never cease to get in the way and fuck things up]

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 10:53 PM. Reason : this is why we can never have a good government. you can't get a couple hundred million morons to recognize genius and send it to Washington.

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 10:54 PM. Reason : ]

3/26/2013 10:52:28 PM

^ This is entirely too true

3/26/2013 10:56:41 PM

Joe was able to understand them, but when he spoke in an ordinary voice, he sounded pompous and faggy to them.

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 11:59 PM. Reason : there's that fag talk we talked about]

3/26/2013 11:58:40 PM

Quote :

"Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you are of at least fairly above average intelligence, there's a reason that almost everyone around you seems to be so fucking stupid that it's a miracle that they don't find a way to get themselves dead just about every day."

And that is why I hate going to the state fair. It's a like a flood of idiots that move like a tide of rolling trash, consuming processed shit and wasting money on rigged games.

3/27/2013 5:38:40 AM

Quote :

" If you are of at least fairly above average intelligence, there's a reason that almost everyone around you seems to be so fucking stupid that it's a miracle that they don't find a way to get themselves dead just about every day."

this is also why I'm glad I became and engineer and work with fellow engineers. At least my immediate team is a group of very intelligent people. between that and having a pretty smart wife i don't have to deal with 'tards very often.

3/27/2013 8:15:40 AM

Quote :

"And that is why I hate going to the state fair. It's a like a flood of idiots that move like a tide of rolling trash, consuming processed shit and wasting money on rigged games."

And it smells like ketchup.

Buncha geniuses up in this thread all of the sudden.

3/27/2013 8:51:06 AM

^^ Well yeah, most people who are intelligent are disproportionately engaged with (professionally and personally) other relatively intelligent people. It's easy to get a skewed perspective on collective societal intelligence (or rather, lack thereof).

3/27/2013 9:11:35 AM

Today is the DOMA case.

A couple kissing in from of the Westboro Church protest signs who are angry that DOMA might be ruled unconstitutional.


The Plaintiff


In front of the court:


Here's a picture making it's rounds on the internet today. I think it's mostly because of the similar angry facial expressions in both the pics. But seriously, if you're standing along side of Westboro, you might want to consider which side you're on.


And the latest from Senator Hagan. Given that seniors way out vote the 30 & under crowd, and thus how much amendment 1 passed by, this is an interesting statement to make before her re-election campaign next year that's happening in a midterm election which tends to favor conservative candidates to begin with due to the lower turnout.


[Edited on March 27, 2013 at 1:21 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2013 1:20:08 PM

I've got the feeling the court is going to pigeon hole their ruling such that it ends up having much less impact than wanted/needed

3/27/2013 1:54:03 PM

The court isn't stepping up to the plate on this one, the president isn't stepping up, California isn't stepping up. Part of that is that to any compassionate, rational person these laws are blatantly unequal and clearly merit a favorable ruling to the liberal side. No one even needs to argue for it, in essence. Unfortunately it's also probably because the democrats are trying to strategically draw out this debate as long as it can possibly go so that they can use it as a wedge issue over the next 10 years.

[Edited on March 27, 2013 at 2:45 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2013 2:43:39 PM

Quote :

"the president isn't stepping up"

I thought his administration's people were the ones arguing to strike down the law or something?

Someone teach me how the SCOTUS challenges like this work!

3/27/2013 3:36:27 PM

Kay Hagan's son has been gay for years now.

Odd that she just now is supporting this publicly.


(see who bites)

3/27/2013 4:24:05 PM

It's odd that politicians lie about their actual philosophies so they can be/remain elected?

3/27/2013 4:29:24 PM

Apparently the administrations of Obama and California have both declined to argue on behalf of overturning the laws. The administration has said that it disagrees with the law but that it will continue I enforce it. This weakness is one of the things the conservatives are harping on, saying that there is no precedent and all their other bullshit.

3/27/2013 4:31:29 PM

Quote :

"Unfortunately it's also probably because the democrats are trying to strategically draw out this debate as long as it can possibly go so that they can use it as a wedge issue over the next 10 years."

Never heard that theory before...

My guess is more that SCOTUS is very hard trying to prevent the creation of another Roe v. Wade. Bad enough that an issue like abortion becomes a standard question for any judicial nominee, but they probably don't want to add yet another issue for Congress to harass appointees with.

3/27/2013 5:37:57 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/politics/same-sex-marriage-court/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Quote :

"Five justices appear receptive to gutting Defense of Marriage Act Washington (CNN) -- A majority of justices raised questions in oral arguments Wednesday about the federal Defense of Marriage Act, indicating the Supreme Court may strike down a key part of the law that denies legally married same-sex couples the same benefits provided to heterosexual spouses."

Quote :

"Kennedy's point caused court observers to speculate he would join the four normally liberal-leaning justices to create a majority against the act."

Quote :

"No consensus was reached from the bench on the gateway or jurisdictional questions -- whether House Republicans were on solid legal footing when they stepped in and defended the law after President Barack Obama and his Justice Department reversed their position by concluding DOMA was unconstitutional. The administration changed its mind after initially defending the law before a federal judge hearing the Windsor lawsuit."

Quote :

"At a news conference later Wednesday, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California called congressional Republicans irresponsible for funding the defense of what she called a discriminatory law at a cost she put at $3 million. "On the basis of what I heard, the questions of the justices, the response of the participants, I'm very optimistic that DOMA will be struck down," Pelosi said."

3/27/2013 5:38:20 PM

Quote :

"The administration has said that it disagrees with the law but that it will continue I enforce it."

He's following Article II, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution.

3/27/2013 5:59:10 PM

the state of the union address?

[Edited on March 27, 2013 at 6:43 PM. Reason : i know it's in there, but it's such a throwaway line]

3/27/2013 6:43:12 PM

^^ I read an article somewhere today that seemed to indicate that Scalia didn't agree with what the administration was doing. It's definitely not unheard of for congress to pass a law and the administration fails to implement or follow it. In that instance, congress and the president head to the Supreme Court to argue with each other over constitutionality of the issue. It's happened before and it will happen again. Scalia is a toolbag but he's also a Supreme Court justice, so we have to listen to him.

3/27/2013 7:08:37 PM

^^I think the marriage equality and stonewall references in the 2nd inauguration were much more important than the couple of mentions in the annual state of the union since it's a rarer event with greater viewership. Although I guess SCOTUS was there at both. If either event was going to move the justices, seeing a sea of people cheering it on for as far as the eye can see at the inauguration was probably a better shot.



[Edited on March 27, 2013 at 7:11 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2013 7:08:39 PM

But what did Clarence Thomas say?

Oh that's right. Nothing.

Probably looking for more pubic hairs on his Coke can.

3/27/2013 9:59:28 PM

old but still explains why I came out in favor of legalized same-sex marriage about 9 years ago

3/29/2013 12:52:45 AM

In following what other countries on doing on this topic, here's the latest from Uruguay by way of an e-mail from their LGBT group:

Quote :

"The Uruguayan Senate will vote the marriage equality bill tomorrow, Tuesday, April 2. As you may remember, the bill had been passed by the Chamber of Deputies in December, but the Senate has modified it. According to our Constitution, those modifications will have to be confirmed by the Deputies for the bill to be finally approved. The modifications are minor and do not affect the bill's essence. We know the bill will be passed by both Chambers by an overwhelming majority, and in a speedy way. After this Tuesday's vote by the Senate, the lower chamber will probably vote and pass it in one or two weeks (all in April). Once passed, the government has up to 90 days to regulate it, i.e., to make the necessary changes in red tape to implement it. Hopefully, the first couples will be getting married in July/August."

So it looks like they'll have the freedom to marry for gay couples by summer, not too long after we hear the results of these Supreme Court cases in this country.

4/1/2013 11:01:46 PM

UruGAY more like it.

4/1/2013 11:10:00 PM

^Uruguay passed the bill joining with Argentina, Canada, parts of Brazil and Mexico to have marriage equality in the Americas.

Also, it looks like another Republican Senator has come out for the freedom to marry in addition to Senator Portman (R-OH, a vp shortlisted guy from the 2012 elections). This time it's Senator Mark Kirk (R-IL). Freedom to Marry's press release said:

Quote :

""With Senator Kirk's support, the U.S. Senate is now ready to move to the right side of history in support of same-sex couples' freedom to marry. Just as we have seen a majority of Americans embrace the freedom to marry, so the Senate is now on the verge of a majority for marriage. As members of Congress are talking with their family, friends, colleagues, and constituents, they come to understand why marriage matters to gay couples as to non-gay, and speak up in support of fairness and freedom. Senator Kirk's heartfelt words about values of treating others as we'd all want to be treated in our precious time on this planet powerfully make the case for the freedom to marry -- and the need for decision-makers to end marriage discrimination in the United States.""

4/2/2013 5:15:24 PM

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/09/hell-freezes-over-as-glenn-beck-endorses-marriage-equality-video/

Not an actual endorsement so much as saying it's time for the GOP to give up on this one having lost on the freedom to marry argument, but I think it helps shows how much things are changing if even Glenn Beck is saying stuff like this (even though I wouldn't be surprised if he gets pressured to qualify or take back that statement later, still that it came out of his mouth at all).

4/9/2013 8:51:53 PM

"The most critical portion of France's marriage equality bill was approved late tonight by a vote of 179-157."


"Uruguay Finalizes Marriage Equality"

4/10/2013 10:40:40 PM

^^ Agreed. The GOP should avoid this issue like the plague. Haven't been paying a lot of attention to this but from what I've read it looks like DOMA is toast. Soon enough gay folks will be free to be as married and miserable as the rest of us!

4/11/2013 2:57:46 PM

Go Rhode Island!

"Rhode Island Becomes 10th Marriage Equality State"
http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.com/2013/04/24/rhode-island-becomes-10th-marriage-equality-state/

Quote :

"Today the Rhode Island Senate passed the marriage equality bill (S 38 sub A), making Rhode Island the 10th state nationally and the last in New England to allow all couples the freedom to marry. The bill was passed by a strongly bipartisan, overwhelming majority of 26-12."

And New Zealand too! Here's a speech one of their legislators made before the bill passed:

4/26/2013 2:06:20 PM