Quote :

"Even at the community college level you have your core curriculum and a certain number of electives to satisfy. "

THIS! Our community college system is so heavily underutilized and a lot of things that are bachelor's degrees could easily be associate degrees and would save the student and the state both a lot of money.

1/31/2013 11:09:16 PM

It's not so much the major, as it's that there's just too many grads in general for the jobs available, STEM included. If boosting the economy and maximizing return on taxpayer investment is the goal, then it would be better served by educating half as many students, and then giving out the savings as stimulus.

1/31/2013 11:09:24 PM

Quote :

"But those jobs NEED to exist, and they typically pay less. So are you saying that only rich people should get degrees in history, and we shouldn't subsidized talented, motivated people?"

Well it needs to be determined how many jobs getting a history degree would put you in, and the number of degrees should be near that. So what's the placement rate?

And which schools have the best history departments? If a degree in history from Western Carolina won't get you a job in history anywhere we see from the recent past, while a degree in history from Princeton will open a ton of doors, shouldn't we subsidize the Princeton history department and not the Western Carolina history department?

1/31/2013 11:16:03 PM

Quote :

"It's not so much the major, as it's that there's just too many grads in general for the jobs available, STEM included. If boosting the economy and maximizing return on taxpayer investment is the goal, then it would be better served by educating half as many students, and then giving out the savings as stimulus."

I wrote this on this board after the November election and McCrory won where people were bitching about him winning:

Quote :

"Perdue, how the hell did this chick sell herself as being good on education? She's from New Bern where I'm from. Back when she was a state senator or representative she visited my middle school in the mid-90s when I was attending there and pretty much told everyone in charge it was her aim to shut down all vocational education in the Craven County school system. We see how well that worked out, the largest civilian employer in Eastern North Carolina, NAVAIR, had to setup their own college to train workers in trades because no one young is doing them or knows how to do them. And then Easley makes her his lieutenant governor back in 2000 off the back of...education. "

So we have plenty of jobs here for young aspirants, still do because they're in the middle of a huge wave of retirement at the facility, this is eastern North Carolina, not exactly the most prosperous place in the world, and our last governor that was so fucking great on education intentionally got rid of the education where people could be taught something and they can feed themselves and their families the rest of their life with that knowledge. No, we wanted to instead send these people to get some bullshit degree that will be of no use in their future. Why didn't Perdue if she was so damn good on education actually help out the youth at that point in time? Instead we have unemployment and our generation here is not trained for the jobs that do exist. Thank God that bitch is gone, because she didn't do much good for the people that live where she's from.

I have a cousin of mine that is a high school dropout and he works when he can as a welder. He's a pretty good welder. He got his GED finally and told me he wanted to go study history at university. I told him not to and said "all they're going to do is just take your money, stick to welding, go get your certificates, because our generation is full of idiots that don't know how to do anything and you're going to be one of the few of us that know how to weld, and regardless of how much robotics are used, there's always going to be a need for welders".

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:34 PM. Reason : /]

1/31/2013 11:29:44 PM

So McRory and his ilk just want to turn colleges into community colleges...?

It's pretty clear what his goal is, he doesn't care about enhancing education (because cutting majors and funding at the university level never, ever does this), he's pissed that history and philosophy don't paint his ideologies and his friends in a positive light, and keeping people ignorant serves his political goals.

You'd have to be an idiot to argue that a rounded education for science/engineering majors is a bad thing, so you'd never really be able to get rid of history/english/language departments, and i'd argue the scum that go into business majors are worse than any humanities (but i'd never argue these majors should be cut just because). And once these departments have a foothold, their staff (rightly) will fight for a degree program.

A diverse degree program too helps us recruit better students, and more importantly, better professors for ALL professor positions, which helps us compete better with other colleges, which helps us get more funding and donors (Hunt Library for example was funded significantly by donations-- with connections through Jim Hunt and even Bill Clinton, it wasn't tech and engineering that built these bridges).

If McCrory gets his way, and i hope he's just spewing garbage to rally his uneducated base, our universities would plummet in ratings relative to other schools, we'd lose good professors, we'd lose good students, we'd lose grants, donations, prestige, and overall quality of our educational programs would diminish.

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:35 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2013 11:34:46 PM

Quote :

"15% "underemployment" is pretty high for an economy that "demands" college degrees."

It's WAY higher for non-grads.

Quote :

"there's just too many grads in general for the jobs available, STEM included"

Where the hell is this coming from?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2074024,00.html
http://dashboard.ed.gov/moreinfo.aspx?i=m&id=6&wt=0
http://chronicle.com/article/Encouraging-STEM-Students-Is/132425/

Do you guys just hear about one guy out there who graduated and couldn't get a job in his field in a few months and extrapolate that out to represent all graduates? Or is it just plain made up?

1/31/2013 11:39:02 PM

I want to disagree with the welding story but I can't ( follow your dreams!!!!)

Highly skilled professions which were once "blue collar" are now pay more than white collar jobs.


Also to add to what Kris said, there are assloads of decent paying jobs. People do not want to move to fill them or dont want to do something uncomfortable. A CHASS degree is pretty flexible when it comes to the inane bullshit people can be paid a lot of money to do.

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:44 PM. Reason : iPhone!]

1/31/2013 11:39:19 PM

^^ maybe them or their friends just have no talent or motivation (which a degree doesn't bestow upon you) and no one hires them.

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2013 11:40:11 PM

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

from "Six Harsh Truths that will Make You a Better Person"

Quote :

"#5. The Hipsters Were Wrong Here is the greatest scene in the history of movies (WARNING: EXTREME NSFW LANGUAGE): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8kZg_ALxEz0 For those of you who can't watch videos, it's the famous speech Alec Baldwin gives in the cinematic masterpiece Glengarry Glenn Ross. Baldwin's character -- whom you assume is the villain -- addresses a room full of dudes and tears them a new asshole, telling them that they're all about to be fired unless they "close" the sales they've been assigned: "Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you! Go home and play with your kids. If you want to work here, close." It's brutal, rude and borderline sociopathic, and also it is an honest and accurate expression of what the world is going to expect from you. The difference is that, in the real world, people consider it so wrong to talk to you that way that they've decided it's better to simply let you keep failing. That scene changed my life. I'd program my alarm clock to play it for me every morning if I knew how. Alec Baldwin was nominated for an Oscar for that movie and that's the only scene he's in. As smarter people have pointed out http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps.html , the genius of that speech is that half of the people who watch it think that the point of the scene is "Wow, what must it be like to have such an asshole boss?" and the other half think, "Fuck yes, let's go out and sell some goddamned real estate!" Or, as the Last Psychiatrist blog put it: "If you were in that room, some of you would understand this as a work, but feed off the energy of the message anyway, welcome the coach's cursing at you, 'this guy is awesome!'; while some of you would take it personally, this guy is a jerk, you have no right to talk to me like that, or -- the standard maneuver when narcissism is confronted with a greater power -- quietly seethe and fantasize about finding information that will out him as a hypocrite. So satisfying." That excerpt is from an insightful critique of "hipsters" and why they seem to have so much trouble getting jobs (that doesn't begin to do it justice, go read the whole thing), and the point is that the difference in those two attitudes -- bitter vs. motivated -- largely determines whether or not you'll succeed in the world. For instance, some people want to respond to that speech with Tyler Durden's line from Fight Club: "You are not your job." But, well, actually, you totally are. Granted, your "job" and your means of employment might not be the same thing, but in both cases you are nothing more than the sum total of your useful skills. For instance, being a good mother is a job that requires a skill. It's something a person can do that is useful to other members of society. But make no mistake: Your "job" -- the useful thing you do for other people -- is all you are. There is a reason why surgeons get more respect than comedy writers. There is a reason mechanics get more respect than unemployed hipsters. There is a reason your job will become your label if your death makes the news ("NFL Linebacker Dies in Murder/Suicide"). Tyler said, "You are not your job," but he also founded and ran a successful soap company and became the head of an international social and political movement. He was totally his job. Or think of it this way: Remember when Chick-fil-A came out against gay marriage? And how despite the protests, the company continues to sell millions of sandwiches every day? It's not because the country agrees with them; it's because they do their job of making delicious sandwiches well. And that's all that matters. You don't have to like it. I don't like it when it rains on my birthday. It rains anyway. Clouds form and precipitation happens. People have needs and thus assign value to the people who meet them. These are simple mechanisms of the universe and they do not respond to our wishes. If you protest that you're not a shallow capitalist materialist and that you disagree that money is everything, I can only say: Who said anything about money? You're missing the larger point."

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps.html

Quote :

""In the John Waters-esque sector of northwest Baltimore -- equal parts kitschy, sketchy, artsy and weird -- Gerry Mak and Sarah Magida sauntered through a small ethnic market stocked with Japanese eggplant, mint chutney and fresh turmeric. After gathering ingredients for that evening's dinner, they walked to the cash register and awaited their moments of truth." Those are two "hipsters", and the punchline is that they pay for their foodie porn with foodie stamps, which sounds like it should be a terrible thing, except it's in Salon.com, which means they're going to try and tell you how it's a good thing, which they don't, because they can't. It's madness. It's very easy and satisfying to hate these two, and nothing would make me happier than to hit them square in the back with a jack-o-lantern. But I also recognize that I am being told to hate them, so I have to take a step back and find out why it is so important that I hate them. I did. I should have just reached for the pumpkin. No one but the state and psychiatry can profit from another's misery, and they are the same thing, so let's see why Election Day doesn't matter. First, the obvious: what's wrong with hipsters on food stamps is that these are college educated people who should be able to get jobs, not live off the state. They're not black, after all. Hell, one of the two in the article is even Asian. "What, like Russian Asian?" No, like Asian Asian. "Whaaaaaaat?" "It's the economy, stupid!" Thanks guy from 1992, but the economy did not tell you to go to college for something you knew in advance would make you unemployable, especially when that unemployable choice cost exactly the same as the employable choice, i.e. too much. Lesson one at the academia should be the importance of separating vocation from avocation, as character actor Fred Thompson and electrical contractor Benjamin Franklin both understood. When I was six I wanted to be in Playboy. Just because it's your dream, doesn't mean you should pursue it. So what makes them hatable is the seeming choice they have made: they could work, yes at jobs they don't like but hey, that's America; but instead they choose to feel entitled to $200/month from the rest of us salarymen. However, secondly: Before we blame them for their choice, we should ask why they felt they could make that choice. I'm not trying to start trouble, but let's choose something I'm familiar with, i.e. women: why would a smart high school junior, 4.0 and AP Everything, think that going to Hampshire College for English Literature was a good idea? Why would her parents allow this madness, other than the fact that they were divorcing? What did she think would happen given that she knew in advance there were no jobs for English majors? Serious answers, please, I'll offer four I had personal experience with: law school; academia; non-profits; marriage. Don't roll your eyes at me, young lady: let's say you are the daughter of a lawyer and you major in English. When you were 17 and you imagined your life at your Dad's age-- not the starving poetess fantasy you wrote about in your spiral notebook, but a glimpse of the bourgeois future you then thought you didn't want-- what kind of a house did you imagine in the "if that happens to me I'll Anne Sexton myself" scenario? A lawyer's house or an English major's house? In other words, the choice to major in English was predicated on information she received from multiple sources like schools and TV-- sources I will collectively call the Matrix-- that every generation does better than the last, that there was a safety net of sorts, a bailout at the end, that future happiness was inevitable, and so we return to economics: the general name for that safety net is credit. America was the land of the minimum monthly payment. And if this analogy isn't clear enough for you, let me reverse it: the ability of the economy to offer English as a major required a massive subsidy to make you feel like $20k/yr was the same as free. If you had to pay it up front, you'd either be an engineer or $80k richer. That subsidy is now worthless, not because the money doesn't exist but because the bailout at the end, e.g the four options I suggested were operational 1977-1999 which guaranteed the payments would be made, won't help. Imagine a large corporate machine mobilized to get you to buy something you don't need at a tremendously inflated cost, complete with advertising, marketing, and branding that says you're not hip if you don't have one, but when you get one you discover it's of poor quality and obsolete in ten months. That's a BA."

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:49 PM. Reason : /]

1/31/2013 11:47:30 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-pushes-for-more-scientists-but-the-jobs-arent-there/2012/07/07/gJQAZJpQUW_story.html

The economy sucks for everyone. STEM majors aren't immune.

1/31/2013 11:52:04 PM

^^I'm not sure how to respond to that right wing wet dream of an article you just posted.

[Edited on January 31, 2013 at 11:57 PM. Reason : ^^^^^]

1/31/2013 11:56:03 PM

^^^ yeah that cracked article is good and funny, but has no bearing on this discussion.

Neither does the other article you posted. Not sure what people using food stamps to buy food that's not junk food is supposed to mean... that seems like a GOOD thing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... yeah, you don't like the choices other people made for education, but so what? You think it's okay for state government to micromanage how universities run...? That is SURELY a recipe for success...

Is this the communist russia we all learned about devoid of art or creativity? Is that what you're arguing we as a society should become?

Not to mention neither article addresses the implications or practicality of attempting to remove these programs.

2/1/2013 12:08:10 AM

Quote :

" The days when you could get a free high school education and a comfortable salary at the factory are gone."

Quote :

"Highly skilled professions which were once "blue collar" are now pay more than white collar jobs."

The foremen positions at the company I work for require a GED or a HS diploma. The pay ranges from 40k to 60k. However, this is not an "entry level" position.

The mid-level PM's & estimators require at least some college. 4 out of 6 of us have 4 year degrees. The pay ranges from 40k to 75k.

Currently, we are looking for foremen, operators, pipelayers, and laborers and are having a hard time finding people who are willing to WORK.

Quote :

"People do not want to...do something uncomfortable."

The jobs that are in demand right now (specifically in my industry) are not glorious. We install pipes that transport turds from one place to another. But with 5 years of "paying dues" and a HS diploma or equivalent, one could be earning $50-60k a year plus bonus. They just have to want to work, outside, in the heat/cold/mud.

I view this as a symptom of a larger problem...entitlement.




Changing the subject, I'm surprised no one has brought up creating a differential in tuition rates across colleges within the university, or basing per hour tuition rates on degree audit/major. Still offer the classes that are not as "economically desirable", but offer them at an unsubsidized rate. This would protect accreditation by continuing to offer the humanities and social sciences to STEM majors, but make the BA degrees a little more cost prohibitive. Student Loan Reform could also help the situation by allowing discharge of student loan debt under bankruptcy. This would raise the borrowing rate on riskier degrees.

When I applied for my mortgages, I had to prove that I would be able to repay the loan. The same process, albeit different metrics, should be applied to student loans. There is no reason someone should be able to borrow to afford a teaching/English/History/Art degree without damn good proof why they will be able to repay the loan. I am not saying these degrees are worthless, but they can be difficult to market. All I'm saying is that an individual obtaining one of these degrees needs to have a plan in place as to what they will do with it once they get it. Typical 18-year olds aren't normally know for their wisdom.

[Edited on February 1, 2013 at 2:19 AM. Reason : ,]

2/1/2013 2:15:24 AM

Quote :

" Changing the subject, I'm surprised no one has brought up creating a differential in tuition rates across colleges within the university, or basing per hour tuition rates on degree audit/major. Still offer the classes that are not as "economically desirable", but offer them at an unsubsidized rate. This would protect accreditation by continuing to offer the humanities and social sciences to STEM majors, but make the BA degrees a little more cost prohibitive. Student Loan Reform could also help the situation by allowing discharge of student loan debt under bankruptcy. This would raise the borrowing rate on riskier degrees. When I applied for my mortgages, I had to prove that I would be able to repay the loan. The same process, albeit different metrics, should be applied to student loans. There is no reason someone should be able to borrow to afford a teaching/English/History/Art degree without damn good proof why they will be able to repay the loan. I am not saying these degrees are worthless, but they can be difficult to market. All I'm saying is that an individual obtaining one of these degrees needs to have a plan in place as to what they will do with it once they get it. Typical 18-year olds aren't normally know for their wisdom. "

While I don't think different tuitions is the key (and at a state university it goes against the constitutional imperative to offer it for free as much as possible), but basing loans on degrees/grades/schools would be a good idea. Want to go to a school that has a great track record getting people jobs and paying back student loans? Great, low interest rate. Want to go to a school that has a terrible job placement rate and former students have problems paying back loans? Great, higher interest rate.

Rising tuition is a problem, but when you cut state funding and make the students borrow more money that's what is going to happen. The state needs to support higher education and keep costs to students down, that doesn't mean that whatever cost remains for the student should necessarily get a low-interest loan. Tuition needs to be controlled, but a witch-hunt to attack certain curriculum is a distraction. Art Pope's goal is to hurt liberals, not save higher education or reduce tuition. The statement about jobs is a smokescreen.

2/1/2013 8:59:29 AM

no more liberal arts? How will we ever find baristas to make our coffee?

I would like to see an increase in focus on STEM in this country, we're getting our asses kicked on the global STEM scene.

[Edited on February 1, 2013 at 6:37 PM. Reason : And it might reduce the overall level of stupidity in this country. ]

2/1/2013 6:37:31 PM

There already IS heightened focus on STEM majors.


look at the actions of the governor


look at the response by the people in this thread.


CHASS has become the scarlet letter of academia, and it's only going to get worse as STEM majors gleefully cheer it's downfall, congratulating each other while toasting the hardships of others.

2/1/2013 7:12:34 PM

The hardships of others which they knowingly created for themselves?

Got it.

I feel just awful!

2/1/2013 7:46:25 PM

Quote :

"no more liberal arts? How will we ever find baristas to make our coffee? "

Do any of you have any data to support this tired and boring stereotype? This has got to be the easiest joke that anyone could possibly make. You'd think that out of all the STEMy STEM STEMersons in here, you'd be able to come up with something a little more original, or at least something that hasn't already been said repeatedly in this thread.

2/1/2013 8:29:54 PM

^
You could easily look up entry-level salaries by major and get a good idea of which degrees are more desirable.

2/1/2013 8:43:54 PM

Ok.

They make me sandwiches sometimes too.

2/1/2013 8:44:19 PM

I have a degree in liberal arts. I got a good job that has absolutely nothing to do with politics or government using skills I developed outside of school and during previous work experience. But, at least I'm good at arguing on online message boards, right guys? Right??

2/1/2013 8:53:33 PM

I enjoy your contributions.

Let's be quite plain about this whole mess. McCrony has a liberal arts degree himself, so that isn't the issue. The GOP has it out for what they consider the "academic elites" because higher (and should be all) education is built on a premise of questioning previous ideas and authority. Emperor Pope is just sending his minion, Darth McCrony, out to force choke an opponent.

2/1/2013 9:16:24 PM

Better to be the right hand of the Devil than in his path.

2/1/2013 9:32:25 PM

They don't have to target liberal arts. Just stop subsidizing loans and fueling the education bubbles. The cost of college will go down, then liberal arts won't be such a horrible investment.

2/2/2013 9:38:08 AM

I'm pretty happy with my liberal arts degree.

2/2/2013 9:47:23 AM

I have a history degree. I'm making a good living in IT.

I wish that I didn't have the debt that I have as a result from my degree. Has it helped me in my field? Not really - I deal with people from all cultures you couldn't type a grammatically correct English sentence to save their lives.

I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything, but damn, I just wish I didn't have that monthly payment.


Republicans are all about trimming fat in the budget, and this is just part of the process. I'm all for getting rid of the majors but still making sure we have those classes for a well rounded education. Or, at the very least, approving college loans based in part on the major of the student. If the major isn't known at the time, then give them an unsubsidized loan.

2/2/2013 12:31:18 PM

[Edited on February 2, 2013 at 1:29 PM. Reason : http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/on-small-business/Images/ST]

2/2/2013 1:29:21 PM

The scarier part of that graph is not that only 17% are proficient and interested, but that 56% are not proficient to begin with.

2/4/2013 8:41:27 AM

Quote :

"15% "underemployment" is pretty high for an economy that "demands" college degrees."

It's entirely unremarkable for an economy in the midst of a demand crisis with relatively uniform unemployment across all sectors.

2/4/2013 12:33:41 PM

While the idea of different prices depending on the major may sound like a good idea, I fear it might be opening a can of worms and have the opposite effect. "Better" majors could end up subsidizing the cost of the liberal arts majors.

2/4/2013 1:08:21 PM

Why does anyone think that different salaries to encourage people to go into STEM is a good or effective idea. STEM professions already have higher starter salaries, so what makes anyone think a different tuition would change things? Tuition should be free or cheap for all majors, picking on liberal arts is a distraction.

2/4/2013 1:11:11 PM

meant to write "tuition"

"Why does anyone think that different tuitions... "

2/4/2013 1:52:46 PM

Quote :

"Tuition should be free or cheap for all majors, picking on liberal arts is a distraction."

2/4/2013 2:07:36 PM

Quote :

"The General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense"

-from NC Constitution

[Edited on February 4, 2013 at 2:13 PM. Reason : and that also ignores my point]

2/4/2013 2:12:41 PM

Quote :

"The scarier part of that graph is not that only 17% are proficient and interested, but that 56% are not proficient to begin with."

Being someone from a CHASS background I'm not very familiar with the market for engineers, but are there engineering jobs out there that if we did get 56% more of the college graduates looking for intro level engineering jobs that they could find meaningful employment?

2/4/2013 2:17:40 PM

Engineering is just a slice of the STEM pie

2/4/2013 2:20:11 PM

So is that a no? Or what are the other major job openings in the STM parts that need filling at the moment?

2/4/2013 2:44:11 PM

My beef with CHASS and liberal arts education is that it doesn't really teach you how to do anything technical that you couldn't study for yourself in a library. Correct me if I am wrong, but most of the material covered in these classes can be relatively and easily self taught.

Ever since I graduated, I regretted studying business management. All I learned was buzz words, some basic accounting information, and other non-critical skills. My four year was a cake walk, and I graduated top 20% of my class.

I wish I would have studied something technical in STEM.

2/4/2013 3:59:07 PM

So management classes should be cut out in the focus on stem? What about Ag?

2/4/2013 4:07:15 PM

^^ you could teach yourself pretty much anything on your own.

I'd argue it's far easier to learn some technical fields on your own than CHASS fields, with things like Udacity or Coursera.

You can get everything you would from a CSC degree from those 2 sites for free, in a very organized manner. There aren't similar sites for humanities courses that I know of.

Physics is the same, ece you'd have to spend money on bread boards and circuit boards (still probably less than $1000 for a self-taught ECE person).

Mechanical might be the hardest to self-teach just because the equipment and software can't easily be had otherwise (wind tunnels, etc.), but you could get most of the way there.

2/4/2013 4:30:32 PM

Quote :

"Or what are the other major job openings in the STM parts that need filling at the moment?"

Two main fields are health and IT, granted most of the most in demand health job require post-graduate degrees, but that is best set up with a STEM major. An easy way to see the most in-demand careers are to look at salary. Higher salary, higher demand, lower salary, lower demand.

2/4/2013 4:42:07 PM

^^hell, most of my CSC was self-taught even though I went to State.

2/4/2013 5:00:54 PM

Quote :

"Being someone from a CHASS background I'm not very familiar with the market for engineers, but are there engineering jobs out there that if we did get 56% more of the college graduates looking for intro level engineering jobs that they could find meaningful employment?"

"Intro-level" engineering jobs are becoming a rarity. Its hard enough for engineers with 4-year degrees to get an engineering job, let alone someone with, say a CHASS degree. Most engineering jobs can fall into two categories: advanced research and specialized technical services. The former is for advanced degree holders and almost always requires a fair amount of experience in the field (which you would get from project assignments during your post-grad study). The latter is a relatively narrow-scope position that requires special training in specific systems and tools used by a company. This type of position is usually filled by existing employees who may have started with the company as a vocational tech, but fresh grads can get these if they've developed a strong relationship with the company via internship/coop.

2/4/2013 5:15:40 PM

This thread still a big 'ole engineering circle-jerk?

2/4/2013 9:16:21 PM

Im an engineer but Im a big fan of the arts. I mean, universities have been around for thousands of years, teaching liberal arts. I dont have a problem with liberal arts being subsidized, but I do think if you cant find a job, you dont have a right to bitch, or to bitch about the economy. Besides, why are you bitching about needing a job and money when youve probably argued about how money isnt the most important thing in life?

Oh and I hope you arent taking checks from the government.

So the solution is simple: allow liberal arts. Those who make it make it, and can contribute to society. To the entertainment industry of things I enjoy. If you suck too much and arent special at it, go learn a technical skill. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer, not everyone is cut out to be a film producer, or philosopher.

The solution isnt to get rid of classes, but to help those who fail at having a successful career in those classes finding something else that they can do as well.

[Edited on February 5, 2013 at 12:31 AM. Reason : j]

2/5/2013 12:29:56 AM

Speaking of education...

"State's new Pre-K chief opposes pre-K"
http://www.wral.com/state-s-new-pre-k-chief-opposes-pre-k/12073587/

Quote :

"The letter also warns that "There is great potential for early learning institutions to foster more dependency on the government (i.e. taxpayer) and more of an entitlement mentality." "

Quote :

"Before 2001, Lightfoot served in executive positions at conservative think tanks in South Carolina and Alabama. She starts work at DHHS next Monday at an annual salary of $110,000."

Those preschoolers should get a job and stop feeding off the system man. She also worked on Michele Bachmann's presidential campaign.

2/6/2013 4:32:18 PM

Christ, its never ending.

There are boat loads of research that show Pre-K is one of the best predictors of how well a kid will do by the time they reach High School. Shit I've even seen research that showed kids that were in Pre-K were less likely to get pregnant as a teenager.

I'm guessing science won't convince Ms. Lightfoot though.

2/6/2013 4:50:36 PM

^More on her:

http://www.wral.com/new-pre-k-chief-deletes-twitter-account/12075793/

Quote :

"Hours after becoming the focus of media attention, the state's new director of early childhood development has deleted her overtly political - and sometimes derogatory - Twitter account."

Quote :

"In postings on her "ChinaLight44" Twitter account, Lightfoot calls Hillary Clinton one of Obama's "Butch bunch," and apparently suggests that the massive Japan earthquake of March 14, 2011, may have been caused by ultrasonic waves from neighboring China or North Korea. Lightfoot's Facebook account follows the same line, protesting Chick-Fil-A's agreement to stop funding anti-gay groups as "sad and ridiculous," and calling pro-gay protestors "anti-freedom-of-speech bigots," the "Chicago Mob," and "bullies.""

Haha, spending huge sums of money to lobby to restrict others rights counts as free speech rather than bullying, but calling out all that discriminatory lobbying counts as bigoted bullying rather than free speech.

2/6/2013 10:22:03 PM

And now she's gone...

http://www.wral.com/new-nc-pre-k-director-quits-amid-questions-over-background/12078169/

Quote :

"New NC Pre-K director quits amid questions over background RALEIGH, N.C. — McCrory administration appointee Dianna Lightfoot now says she will not take the job leading the state's pre-K program. Lightfoot's appointment was announced Tuesday. But questions were raised about potential conflict of interest because she founded and headed an organization that advocated against publicly funded pre-kindergarten programs like NC Pre-K. On Wednesday night, Lightfoot deleted her Twitter account, in which she referred to Hillary Clinton as a "butch" and questioned whether ultrasonic waves had caused the 2011 Japan earthquake. A Facebook account that remained online referred to gay rights protesters as "bigots.""

2/7/2013 12:43:36 PM

good, although i guess they'll probably just put another whacko in the position.

2/7/2013 12:50:36 PM