no they don't.

5/16/2013 1:06:16 PM

Quote :

"the government really needs to provide health care"

Just to be clear in a thread where we are discussing ongoing protests over a runaway legislature implementing policies detrimental to large segments of the population, who have engineered (or are in the process of doing so) safeguards to ensure their continued election and continued power, who have shown repeated contempt for their electorate and who have been abusing their authority like petulant children, in this thread you are advocating giving authority and control of health care to the same legislators? And if your argument is that you want to give that control to the national legislators, what makes you think they're any better? They all come from the same stock.

5/16/2013 1:33:24 PM

the other option is to have those same unreasonable people shovel money into the hands of private insurance companies.

5/16/2013 1:41:47 PM

wat? the best option is to keep government money completely out of healthcare and let the people who are being insured pay for their insurance (either directly or through benefit of employment)

5/16/2013 1:43:44 PM

^ What about those who work and can't afford the premiums. Also 3/4 of medical bankruptcies are from those who have insurance.

5/16/2013 1:50:36 PM

our current system, and every proposed system, is privatization that shovels public money to private insurance companies and private healthcare systems. obamacare is more of this terrible privatization.


not a single person is proposing an entirely free market healthcare system

[Edited on May 16, 2013 at 1:51 PM. Reason : so the solution is to just socialize it and have a national healthcare system]

5/16/2013 1:51:05 PM

Quote :

"^ What about those who work and can't afford the premiums. Also 3/4 of medical bankruptcies are from those who have insurance."

get a better job? get cheaper insurance? manage their money better?

or i guess just burden the taxpayers and mooch off the system.

5/16/2013 2:07:16 PM

the myth of insurance companies being the problem is cool cause it makes it easy to tell if someone understands the problem or not.

providers of healthcare are far and away the #1 source of healthcare costs. targeting costs at the provider level is the ONLY way to fix the problem. the accountable care portions of the accountable care act (obamacare) actually provide a decent start to fixing this problem.

Currently hospitals are paid per transaction. You go in for some procedure, they fuck up, kick you out, you come back in to fix their fuck up, your insurance gets billed twice. if the insurance squawks about it and denies payment, the hospital laughs and bills you for it. then you get all mad and cause you're an idiot you side with the hospital that fucked up because you don't know that they fucked up. in this system hospitals are essentially paid more when they fuck up.

the accountable care act changes some of how this goes down. instead of being transaction based, hospitals become part of larger accountable care organizations which are responsible for the care of a population of patients. if hospitals fail to meet certain quality of care metrics, they get penalized for it. this way the emphasis shifts from more transactions = more money to higher quality transactions = more money. also I think there may be some stuff in there about cutting out unnecessary procedures which make up a huge chunk of overall costs.

That stuff is all great, but then you have the horrific individual mandate which gets all the press and ruins everything. its such a stupid fucking idea especially when insurance remains locked to state populations.

If you want the individual mandate to have a chance at working these things need to happen:
1) regulate insurance at a federal level instead of a state level. This instantly eliminates tons of overhead from dealing with mutli-state regulation. It also massively increases the size of insured patient pools which allows for better cost predictions and this lower premiums/
2) require all providers, insurers, or other medical service entities to use the latest ICD codes for all record keeping. that includes billing. this eliminates overhead when translating proprietary codes, like provider codes to insurance codes. everyone uses the same codes for everything.
3) require all insurance companies to list total coverage information using ICD codes. meaning you can get a list of every single procedure they cover and at what rates they cover them. This allows for transparent comparison between insurance plans (hugely useful if insurance exchanges are going to work). AND it lets patients see exactly what they're going to get when they go in for a procedure.
4) require that providers list all procedure costs using ICD codes. This way costs become transparent to patients and other interested parties. It also means patients can use automated means to compare their insurance to the provider's costs to get a highly accurate estimate.

these steps create transparency in cost which allows for a much much better conversation on how to start to lower those costs. without that information theres no way anyone can claim that their plan will save money, especially when their plan is "throw infinite government money at it". they don't know what they're paying for, they just know they want to pay for it.

5/16/2013 2:17:37 PM

Also most hospitals have absolutely no idea how their quality of care rates. they just don't have the means to collect the metrics. the big trend internally at providers is going to be centered around implementing process controls and quality programs in the same way manufacturers did it in the 80s. if this happens then you're going to see a huge quality and productivity improvement similar to what happened in manufacturing. its a big fucking deal.

but its only gonna happen if we press them to do it. if we give in to the temptation to just throw government money at them they wont change and the problems of cost and quality will become even less transparent than they are now.

[Edited on May 16, 2013 at 2:23 PM. Reason : a]

5/16/2013 2:22:36 PM

Or just end public money to private healthcare and create public healthcare

5/16/2013 2:24:06 PM

Quote :

"get a better job? get cheaper insurance? manage their money better? or i guess just burden the taxpayers and mooch off the system."

Oh I didn't know it was just that easy to "get a better job". Also if they are people who work are they really mooching?

5/16/2013 2:51:12 PM

This thing just keeps getting bigger and bigger.



Reminds me of this:

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

5/20/2013 8:27:44 PM

^ It will be overshadowed by the tornado coverage but looks like 300 showed maybe up to 100 arrested today?

5/20/2013 8:59:07 PM

I'm surprised, I almost expected it to shrink a little today, since the big push has been for June 3rd as the main date, and because of the rain. Can't wait to see what happens on June 3rd, if this is what happens under less than ideal conditions.

5/20/2013 9:17:04 PM

actually some are saying 500+ were there. The problem is media coverage is little to none tonight on it.

5/20/2013 9:26:22 PM

Quote :

"providers of healthcare are far and away the #1 source of healthcare costs. targeting costs at the provider level is the ONLY way to fix the problem. the accountable care portions of the accountable care act (obamacare) actually provide a decent start to fixing this problem. "

Negative. The #1 source of healthcare cost is legislation that was supposed to lower costs.

5/20/2013 9:40:22 PM

wrong again

5/20/2013 9:45:39 PM

yes, you are wrong again.

5/20/2013 9:46:14 PM

nope

5/20/2013 9:51:02 PM

yep

5/20/2013 9:58:55 PM

no

5/20/2013 10:05:37 PM

well this is a worthwhile soapbox debate.

5/20/2013 10:09:31 PM

well, when mods let blatant trolling like that happen, what do you expect? They don't give a fuck, so this is the level of discourse you get

5/20/2013 10:10:42 PM

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/politics&id=9108744

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- The fourth week of protests led by the North Carolina chapter of the NAACP has ended in the arrests of 57 at the state legislature. The arrest count and number of supporters Monday reached the highest yet for the group's demonstrations against the policies of the Republican-held legislature. Both arrest numbers and crowds chanting in support have grown each week, with about 150 people facing charges since the start of demonstrations. The state chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the demonstrators coming out for protests are angry over cuts to social programs, education reforms, changes to voting laws and other issues"

5/20/2013 10:17:45 PM

can we just keep these people locked up?

5/20/2013 10:26:51 PM

updated WTVD article:
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/politics&id=9108744

Hundreds thronged the Senate rotunda to show support for demonstrations that are drawing increasing numbers of people to Raleigh for what the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is calling "Moral Mondays." General Assembly Police Chief Jeff Weaver placed the arrest count at 57, which brings the total over four weeks to 153.

Hundreds more supporters remained outside the General Assembly before and after the protests, waiting for those arrested to emerge.

What started with tens of supporters and 17 arrests has attracted hundreds of people of different age groups, races and professions to protest the policies of the General Assembly, which came under Republican leadership after the 2010 midterm elections. Their complaints range from cuts to social programs to the proposed repeal of a law intended to take racial bias out of capital punishme

5/20/2013 11:29:20 PM

80-Year-Old North Carolina Educator: Why I Got Arrested Protesting Right-Wing Agenda for Schools

http://www.alternet.org/activism/80-year-old-north-carolina-educator-why-i-got-arrested-protesting-right-wing-agenda-schools

5/21/2013 1:30:25 PM

An article by the Indy on the latest demonstration:
http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/crowd-size-and-arrest-totals-increase-at-latest-moral-monday-protest/Content?oid=3641650

Roughly 600 people gathered outside the Legislative Building in Raleigh on Monday as part of a growing wave of protests called Moral Mondays, which have now led to 153 arrests over four weeks.

The protests are a backlash against a wave of policies by the Republican-controlled North Carolina Legislature that have been among the most staunchly conservative in the country. Policies that are being considered or have already become law include cutting Medicaid and unemployment benefits, instituting voter ID, promoting school vouchers, raising taxes on the poor, rolling back environmental standards and limiting felons' voting rights....

5/23/2013 11:17:59 AM

June 3rd should be huge! 5pm at the NCGA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljJslK52oU0

(You do not have to risk arrest to attend).

5/30/2013 2:33:27 PM

lol

Quote :

"As speaker pro tem, the No. 2 position in the House, Stam is one of the Republican leaders protesters would most like to influence. "I would say they've had zero impact," he said. "They're not talking to members. They're talking to themselves and to the media.""

6/1/2013 11:43:13 AM

Representatives answer to the people, not the other way around.

6/1/2013 1:39:32 PM

We will see if the rain impacts turnout any today but I would expect over 1000 to show up.

6/3/2013 11:25:18 AM

Protest is now at Halifax Square due to the expected crowd size.

6/3/2013 4:09:27 PM

The scene as of 5:20pm

6/3/2013 5:24:19 PM

6/3/2013 6:28:38 PM

Quote :

"Representatives answer to the people, not the other way around."

They answer to people. People that aren't you - people that aren't like you.

[Edited on June 3, 2013 at 7:11 PM. Reason : ]

6/3/2013 7:10:13 PM

I think they need escalate the tactics. Locking arms and laying down next time would slow the process of arrest dramatically. Additionally a house and senate session were scheduled for 7pm tonight. Slowing the arrests may have shut that down. Finally with that many people you could take the street and march as well.



[Edited on June 3, 2013 at 9:08 PM. Reason : /]

6/3/2013 8:59:39 PM

6/3/2013 9:16:36 PM

http://www.wncn.com/story/22482820/nc-naacp-resumes-weekly-protests-of-legislature

Quote :

""RALEIGH, N.C. - Around 1,600 demonstrators gathered outside the North Carolina General Assembly Monday for a mass pray-in, sing-in and teach-in against what demonstrators call "the extreme agenda of the state leadership.""

Quote :

"Around 140 people were arrested, police said, adding to the more than 150 people arrested so far during previous Moral Monday demonstrations.""

Quote :

"Monday's demonstrations were scheduled to touch on the importance of support for public education and voting rights."

6/3/2013 9:52:59 PM

WTVD reports 151 arrests alone today.

6/3/2013 11:20:35 PM

WRAL's coverage of this event during last night's broadcast was very poor. After watching their coverage "getting arrested" seems to be the only stated goal of the protests. How many were arrested last time, how many have been arrested this time, and how many more are expected to be arrested. No mention at all as to what was actually being protested.

6/4/2013 8:25:19 AM

^ WRAL's coverage of protests has been lousy for awhile.

6/4/2013 8:29:41 AM

^^ Haven't seen the WRAL coverage, but could the lack of reporting on what was being protested have anything to do with the vague nature of the protests themselves? We now seem to be having protests every Monday related to some general sense of dissatisfaction with the current majority in the legislature, but there doesn't seem to be a central point of agreement on what's being protested. Granted, I don't spend all day reading BlueNC and Democracy-NC's twitter feeds, so maybe I'm just wilfully ignorant on the issue.

6/4/2013 9:06:42 AM

all you need to do is look at the signs and you can get most of the complaints

6/4/2013 9:18:37 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/03/2936847/more-than-100-arrested-at-monday.html

Quote :

"The protesters’ list of grievances was as diverse as the crowd: education spending, voter ID, women’s rights, the elimination of the estate tax, private school vouchers and more."

[/quote]

That doesn't sound diverse at all. Sounds like garden variety Democratic party talking points, actually.

[Edited on June 4, 2013 at 12:29 PM. Reason : ]

6/4/2013 12:28:51 PM

of course all the democrats are trying to get arrested

they can barely contain the hard-on they get when they think of all the free shit jail has to offer

6/4/2013 12:47:18 PM

I was there for a little bit after work. A really great diverse crowd, especially older folks. Totally came away with a new respect for Rev. Barber, the guy is hilarious, while also keeping just enough seriousness to not make fun of the moment.

6/4/2013 1:06:45 PM

when you have elderly people getting arrested then i think you can throw that weak troll aside ^^

6/4/2013 1:40:28 PM

^^^seriously, what's the point of that? is that supposed to be constructive debate?

6/4/2013 1:41:33 PM

^^what does them being old have to do with...anything? they are essentially choosing to get arrested.

^to rustle your jimmies...you're supposed to be ignoring me like you promised though

6/4/2013 3:41:44 PM