^ man, I think you're being crazy optimistic. Especially if you think we go into countries aiming for geopolitical stability. We go into countries to demand their political and business obedience. We don't give a shit about the will of the people in the middle east. So expecting borders to be redrawn according to ethnic and religious divides is pretty unlikely, in my opinion. At least, as long as we're involved.

[Edited on September 15, 2014 at 4:43 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2014 4:30:23 PM

I don't know what other option there is honestly. You can't force a country to continue to exist from the outside. Realistically there is no more Iraq. It's an artificial construct that is recognized diplomatically, but it's not going to go back to being what it was.

If it wasn't for us being so short sighted in dealing with Iran we could have an ally in the region who doesn't want crazy sects Ian violence on its border. Of Obama really wants a legacy maybe he should consider trying to broker a peace by bringing Iran, Turkey, Syria and the leadership of the Kurtis together along with whoever shakes out as the leader of the Islamic state forced and put together some kind of accord.

Yeah, there will still be violence in the region but it's one possibility for a potential solution. The other really good idea would be to get the fuck out entirely and let that region sort out its own problem. And don't pretend like the violence and genocide is too much to ignore, we've ignored plenty of genocides before, just ask Africa or the middle east not that long ago.

9/15/2014 4:48:25 PM

I agree with your assessment of Iraq. It's a country that's mostly been held together by force, and that can't last.

I just don't see any reason for optimism from the leaders of the US to make a long term feasible goal. Negotiating with Iran has been politically ingrained as a non starter, so I don't realistically see that happening regardless of the strategic benefit it offers. Obama has spent his entire time in office making political moves, and hasn't even dared to make policy decisions. So I just see us kicking this can down the road fit the foreseeable future, unfortunately. This guy has totally phoned it in already. He will stage his legacy on shitty healthcare "reform" and killing Bin Laden. This dude is straight up done for the rest of the term.

[Edited on September 15, 2014 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2014 4:53:12 PM

Like I said, that's why you've got to let the regional leadership figure it out and we just have to be the ones to set up a stage to allow that to happen.

You're right though, sadly Obama has been so woeful on foreign policy that he likely can't or won't be the one to do this. Shitting all over Russia as we have for the last 10+ years hasn't helped us either. It would be nice to have them on our side here.

9/15/2014 5:00:24 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/15/iran-ayatollah-khamenei-takes-to-twitter-to-reject-us-offer-to-help-stop/

9/15/2014 5:11:49 PM

Quote :

"when W left Iraq was a stable place."

god damn, some of you people are fucking retarded as shit

9/15/2014 5:32:20 PM

crap, JHC and I agree on this page, too

9/15/2014 7:19:13 PM

Splitting a country along religious/ethnic divides won't work because then all those new countries will do will fight each other. Now you've gone from a civil war to a war between two sovereign nations who each think they deserve the others' land in the name of their version of Islam.

9/15/2014 7:25:57 PM

Good point. We can't have a perfect solution so best not to try at all.

9/15/2014 7:41:32 PM

^^India Pakistan conflict ain't too bloody

9/15/2014 7:44:55 PM

Spy on the population for a while, then use analytics to send personalized letters to everyone who did something immoral, and follow this up with a massive propaganda campaign promoting a kinder, gentler version of Islam.

9/15/2014 7:45:02 PM

Quote :

"Kurtis636: [...] leadership of the Kurtis[...] "

That would be... you?

9/15/2014 8:02:46 PM

Yeah, autocorrect from my phone. Didn't catch it in time to edit.

9/15/2014 8:26:18 PM

^ yeah i know, but it was just a cool coincidence!

this is a very interesting read, i encourage everybody to read it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/isis-support-syria_n_5792360.html

9/16/2014 1:35:06 AM

OMG

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/tx-sheriff-warns-fox-of-isis-threat-quran-books-found-along-mexican-border/

Quote :

"Painter replied. “We have found copies, or people along the border, have found Muslim clothing, they have found Quran books that are laying on the side of the trail. So we know that there are Muslims that have come across, have been smuggled in the United States.”"

People are leaving "Quran books" by the side of the road? And Muslim clothing too?!

Watch him say it in the video.

9/16/2014 3:25:35 AM

Definitely extremists

9/16/2014 1:23:21 PM

^^lol

9/16/2014 3:34:39 PM

That's what these people do. They go out into the desert, strip naked and drop "quran books" along their trail so they can find their way back.

9/16/2014 3:40:10 PM

^ lol!

http://www.france24.com/en/20140917-france-switches-arabic-daesh-acronym-islamic-state/

Quote :

"Daesh? Daesh is a loose acronym of the Arabic for “Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant” (al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham).Use of acronyms is rare in the Arabic world, with the notable exception of the Palestinian group Hamas (Harakat al-Muqawamah al-iSlamiyya). First used in April 2013 by Arabic and Iranian media hostile to the jihadist movement, Daesh became a name commonly used by the enemies of IS, notably forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad as well as activists and less fanatical rebel groups also fighting the Damascus regime. A principal reason for using the acronym was to remove the words “Islamic” and “State” in reference to the group in a bid to stop Muslims in war-torn Syria and beyond flocking to its ranks. Defiance and disrespect It is also considered insulting, and the IS itself doesn’t like the name Daesh one bit. Beyond the acronym, “Daesh” sounds lie the Arabic “Daes”, meaning “one who crushes something underfoot” as well as “Dahes”, which means “one who sows discord”."

[Edited on September 17, 2014 at 8:52 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2014 8:51:37 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/08/steven-sotloff-sold-to-isis_n_5788312.html

http://thehill.com/policy/international/217645-syrian-rebels-isis-agree-to-non-aggression-pact

9/18/2014 1:45:09 PM

ttt

9/22/2014 10:38:01 PM

Missile rain starts.

9/23/2014 9:11:23 AM

i always liked prince

9/23/2014 9:38:40 AM

Prince Salman Bin Abdulaziz?

9/23/2014 10:06:47 AM

So was that a coalition syria plane israel just shot down or was it a bad syria plane? What a mess.

9/23/2014 2:02:23 PM

It was a Syrian fighter jet.

What's a "coalition syria plane"? Syria isn't part of the coalition against Isis, is it? I know they're also fighting ISIS, but it's not like we're working with them, right?

9/23/2014 2:34:03 PM

Yesterday I saw a list of like 50 countries and Syria was on there. I guess it was about the rebels because today all I see is the same list of mostly gulf nations.

Technically, Israel is at war with Syria thus helping Isis. Isn't Isis ultimately a good thing for Israel's conservatives?

9/23/2014 6:36:26 PM

More cruise missiles for mud huts...

9/23/2014 8:41:13 PM

For $1.4 million a missile, I bet they could have hired contractors to demolish the buildings in the middle of the night.

That'd be a pretty funny way to wage a battle...

[Edited on September 23, 2014 at 8:52 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2014 8:52:28 PM

Also the first combat missions for the F-22, against a fucking militia. ISIL can't even shoot down drones, let alone supersonic jets.

9/23/2014 9:36:05 PM

they are hardly a militia. they are a state. plus, syria has russian anti-air and might "accidentally" shoot down one of our planes.

9/23/2014 9:38:35 PM

The F-22s are pretty great looking.

9/24/2014 8:14:57 AM

Oh they won't get shot down, but we will probably lose at least one to operational hazards. The F22 is a piece of shit.

What are they $400+ million a piece? Yeah definitely worth it to combat these retards.

Reminds me of the last three presidents risking B2 stealth bombers because "they look cool." That must be it of course since plenty of other aircraft types could complete these missions.

9/24/2014 10:07:58 AM

don't we only have a total of 20 B-2s?

9/24/2014 12:35:00 PM

^^I thought the F-22 was fine, and that the JSF was the one that turned to shit

9/24/2014 12:49:21 PM

Assuming they're flying them at low enough altitudes, maybe it's obamas version of shock and awe.

9/24/2014 1:41:05 PM

shock and lol

9/24/2014 1:50:08 PM

Im pretty sure they have equipment between us iraqi equipment russian syrian equipment and iranian equipment as well as german equipment in the region. Im sire someone has something to shoot down conventional aircraft. Obamas goal is to guarantee 0 american fatalities. Bombers being shot down and killed or captured would be a disaster especially when we have this tech at our disposal. Isis is not a militia. They are a state with a well eqipped military. They defeated iraq in weeks.

9/24/2014 2:44:35 PM

Quote :

"What are they $400+ million a piece? Yeah definitely worth it to combat these retards."

It is worth it to Boeing/Raytheon/etc and the politicians whose pockets they line.

[Edited on September 24, 2014 at 2:46 PM. Reason : whom wtf]

9/24/2014 2:45:57 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of stuff in this war. I'm sure Saudi Arabia is picking up the tab, like they did for Desert Storm.

9/24/2014 8:48:24 PM

The F35 is shit because its generic, not because its bad at its job. Its shit because its replacing cool planes like the A10.

Its like if every car in the world was a BMW 3 series. Its a great car and better than most, worse than a few, but still rather plain.

The F22 has a myriad of stupid faults. Its too bad Obama doesnt want boots on the ground because if he did they could all ride in the Osprey and be cool like that instead of riding a helicopter.

9/24/2014 9:16:37 PM

if we are talking about the merits of our aircraft, unmanned is the future for the bulk of our air power. manned vehicles won't be phased out completely of course (for both political and strategic reasons) but "drones" (don't care for that term) are going to become more and more prevalent. (for several reasons... no risk of human loss of life when shot down... no fragile human flesh to worry about during high g maneuvers.)

[Edited on September 24, 2014 at 9:29 PM. Reason : ]

9/24/2014 9:28:31 PM

Maybe the Brits will test their new supersonic stealth drone on ISIL!

9/25/2014 9:13:45 AM

Quote :

"The F35 is shit because its generic, not because its bad at its job. Its shit because its replacing cool planes like the A10. Its like if every car in the world was a BMW 3 series. Its a great car and better than most, worse than a few, but still rather plain. The F22 has a myriad of stupid faults. Its too bad Obama doesnt want boots on the ground because if he did they could all ride in the Osprey and be cool like that instead of riding a helicopter."

Your trolling is just a tad too obvious.

9/25/2014 9:31:21 AM

Fighter jet designers ITT

9/25/2014 9:58:24 AM

Quote :

"What are they $400+ million a piece? Yeah definitely worth it to combat these retards."

F-22 was the great USAF fantasy, of battling the thousands of MiGs and Sukhois in Armageddon against the Soviet Union. They don't want to be troubled with boring things like dropping bombs on insurgents, but to justify their toy in an era where they don't have a massive enemy air force to rumble with, they'll strap a bomb to it anyway to justify its existence. Its like buying a katana and trying to justify the purchase by using it to mince garlic for dinner.

Quote :

"It is worth it to Boeing/Raytheon/etc and the politicians whose pockets they line."

Don't forget Lockheed. They're the prime on F-22 and F-35. Raking in cash on fighter jets for the next 50 years. If anything, Boeing/McD/North American is now effectively out of that market for the foreseeable future. So now we have even less competition for the future! Yay!

http://online.wsj.com/articles/boeing-faces-a-future-without-fighter-jets-1411063893

Quote :

"I thought the F-22 was fine, and that the JSF was the one that turned to shit"

F-35 JSF is the Swiss army knife of the USAF. It sorta does everything, but if you want a screwdriver, can opener and a combat knife, you could probably buy those three tools separately for the same price and have dedicated tools that do each mission better.

The great irony of course is that USAF is sending the A-10s in to provide CAS in the region... after loudly proclaiming how the platform is worthless and the F-35 and B-1 can do CAS as effectively.

9/25/2014 11:43:18 AM

Quote :

"Your trolling is just a tad too obvious."

RedGuard said essentially the same thing in a nice way.

The Osprey is a death trap; I wasn't being sarcastic there. It does however look cool.

9/25/2014 11:46:44 AM

Quote :

"According to the Pentagon, the Navy fired 47 Tomahawk missiles, each of which cost about $1.6 million, for a total of $75.2 million. ... That's more expensive than India's mission to Mars, which was successfully completed Wednesday at a cost of just $74 million. "

also

Quote :

"But the Pentagon did not trust the Syrian military to leave American warplanes alone as they struck ISIS and another Al Qaida-affiliated terrorist group called Khorasan. That’s why the Air Force needed assets like the blisteringly fast, high-flying Raptor which could operate inside heavily defended airspace with relative impunity. "

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/24/first-u-s-stealth-jet-attack-on-syria-cost-79-million.html

They were probably just tired of the jets just sitting around and wanted to give them some action.

9/25/2014 1:06:48 PM

F-22 Raptor impresses in combat debut

Quote :

"The Air Force's costly and controversial new F-22 Raptor made its public debut during bombing runs over Syria earlier this week and defense experts said they were impressed by the first glimpse of its lethal firepower. “It seems to have been very successful – it was designed to have that ‘first night,’ precision strike capability,” Rebecca Grant, president of Washington D.C.-based defense research firm IRIS Independent Research, told FoxNews.com. “This proves that the F-22 is a viable combat aircraft and a good air-to-ground weapon.” Developed by Lockheed Martin, the F-22 has been touted as the world’s premier fighter aircraft and a key weapon in the U.S. military’s high-tech arsenal. However, with a price tag of $67 billion and beset by problems, the F-22 program has come under intense scrutiny. Only 188 of the planes have been built. Set against this backdrop, defense experts were eager to see if the plane lived up to its billing. “The U.S. has invested a lot in the F-22 Raptor and the U.S. Air Force has worked so much in the last few years to turn the troubled, expensive interceptor into a real multi-role platform that could be eventually used in a real operation,” Rome-based aviation expert, pilot, and former Italian Air Force officer David Cenciotti told FoxNews.com in an email. “In this case it was also the chance to appease those who criticized the costly stealth plane and the fact it was never used in combat until a couple of days ago,” he said. The attack on an Islamic State command and control center in the northern Syrian city of Raqqa was an ideal mission for the F-22, according to experts. “I think that part of the reason for the use of the F-22 was location,” Grant told FoxNews.com. “The target was right in the heart of a city so they wanted a very precise hit – to destroy the target and not anything else.” Capable of flying faster than the speed of sound without afterburners, reports also suggest that the stealth fighter routinely flies above 50,000 feet. “It’s a very fast, very high altitude aircraft – that adds to its survivability and effectiveness," said Grant. “Any bomb coming off a high speed, high altitude aircraft, does that much more damage.” Unique for a fighter, the F-22 also carries its bombs internally in a bomb bay, something which gives it more stealth and speed. “If you have the bombs hanging out underneath, it really increases the radar signal of the aircraft, and slows it aerodynamically,” she said. A typical F-22 armaments configuration is two 1,000-pound GPS-guided bombs and two radar-guided air-to-air missiles in its inner bay, along with one infrared-seeking air-to-air missiles in each of its two side bays. Alternatively, the fighter can carry eight 250-pound Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs) and two radar-guided air-to-air missiles in its inner bay, in addition to its two side bay missiles. Media reports have speculated that a 1,000-pound bomb was dropped in the attack on the ISIS command and control center. The SDBs are a “penetrating, blast-fragmentation warhead for stationary targets, equipped with deployable wings for extended standoff range,” according to Cenciotti, who writes The Aviationist blog. “These bombs are particularly useful to improve accuracy and reduce collateral damage,” he added. Cenciotti noted that this week’s U.S. airstrikes took place well inside airspace guarded by Syrian air defense radars and surface to air missile batteries, where Syrian planes involved in the country’s civil war usually operate. The F-22’s ability to enter a target area largely undetected is therefore extremely useful. The expert cited, in particular, the fighter’s ability to “gather details about the enemy systems with their extremely advanced onboard sensors, escort other unstealthy planes and, last but not least, attack their own targets.”"

9/25/2014 8:40:07 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVgSAniqfRs

9/26/2014 2:41:00 PM