Who gives a shit if it was classy or not. I hope Debbie Yow was more concerned with finding the right guy than whether or not we gave a TOB a classy enough send off. And it wasn't "right before" the bowl game. It was actually right after the season. more than a month before the bowl game.

It's also not all that uncommon to fire a coach before the bowl game (if the team is making a bowl, that is)

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 1:41 PM. Reason : asdlk;jas]

10/6/2014 1:39:34 PM

Glad she had her finger on that NIU pulse. Would have hated to see him slip away to the Auburn job.

10/6/2014 1:50:07 PM

Quote :

"What makes you think DD will be fine?"

A hunch and the fact that he's done well in his past places of employment.

I also don't think you can look at least year and easily say that he won't succeed. Last year was the worst collection of QB talent we've had at State during my lifetime. I couldn't imagine that was possible after the Davis/Stone/Evans/Beck debacle...but it happened. And after TOB's last few years of sub-par recruiting, we didn't have the talent to make up for having a shitty QB. I don't know how we even managed to stay in ACC games last year.

The Clemson lost was disappointing, but we ran into a buzz saw. Watson is nasty, we were playing in death valley, and we got punched in the mouth right from the get-go. Maybe if we could have scored on our opening possession we would have had a chance to make it look decent. But after going down 14-0, Clemson's front 7 just went all out after the QB (and they have one of the top front 7s in the country). It was just a bad combo.

After this year's full ACC slate I think you'll be able to pass a better judgment on his future here.

10/6/2014 2:28:39 PM

My two biggest gripes with Doeren at the moment

1) His recruiting sucks so far
2) For a coach that came up the ranks on the defensive side of the ball, you'd expect him to figure out some way to cover up our flaws, and he's failed completely in that respect.

10/6/2014 2:41:17 PM

^^ this.

Quote :

"I still look at Huxtable a lot like Archer at this point. We keep getting burnt and we've done nothing scheme-wise to try and switch it up. "

I don't see the problems with Archer and Huxtable as the same. Archer played that bullshit "bend but don't break" crap that gave up 9 yards on every play, but avoided the big 50 yard stuff. Huxtable's defense just gives up everything including the 50 yard bombs and the 9 yard plays. It's almost like we are playing with 9 or 10 guys on the field sometimes.

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ^]

10/6/2014 2:42:25 PM

^^The two things (DD's hiring and TOB's firing) are separate of one another. Regardless of whether or not DD turns out to be a great coach or a shitty coach, firing TOB was still the right thing to do. Criticizing DD is a completely reasonable thing to do. But it doesn't really change the fact that it was time for TOB to go.

10/6/2014 2:49:52 PM

Quote :

"My two biggest gripes with Doeren at the moment 1) His recruiting sucks so far 2) For a coach that came up the ranks on the defensive side of the ball, you'd expect him to figure out some way to cover up our flaws, and he's failed completely in that respect."

I definitely agree with #2. I expected more from him defensively.

As for #1, his recruiting has been somewhat disappointing...I do agree. But for this recruiting class it seems like we've been mighty close to landing some bigger names. And hopefully winning a few games will start win some of those recruits over. I'm optimistic that recruiting is headed in the right direction. It's gonna take us winning some ball games to get over that hump though.

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM. Reason : On the whole, I'm optimistic about DD. ]

10/6/2014 2:59:02 PM

http://www.gopack.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ncst-m-footbl-mtt.html

54 freshman. But that's out of 99 players. For some reason I was thinking it was like 85 total.

10/6/2014 3:11:42 PM

^I assume that includes walk-ons. It's 85 (I think) scholarships for FBS teams.

10/6/2014 3:18:07 PM

Quote :

"A hunch"

Umm....what the hell is this worth?

Quote :

"and the fact that he's done well in his past places of employment."

How long was he at NIU? Because, if you're going to make this argument:

Quote :

"And after TOB's last few years of sub-par recruiting"

Then doesn't it stand to reason that you should give Jerry Kill much of the credit for Doeren's success at NIU? Jerry Kill recruited Jordan Lynch.


Look, I'm firmly in the "give Doeren time" camp, and I fully expected to lose to FSU and Clemson before the season started. But last season was a fuckin' travesty, man. There should be a reflecting pool in front of Carter Finley where fans can go to lay down flowers and somberly reflect on that disaster with a moment of silence, with a placard on the wall that reads "Never Again" with the names of all the players who suffered during the year.

This season seems to be better, but how much of that is purely because of Jacoby? Doeren's real test starts next week. We still don't know what kind of team he can put on the field. Yeah, we got off to a hot start against FSU, but we then proceeded to get outscored 49-17 after the first quarter.

Let's look at it this way, in the last 7 quarters of ACC play, Doeren's teams have been outscored 90-17 And all of this after getting goose-egged in conference play the previous season.


Things, at this moment, are not rosy. And your hunch isn't very re-assuring.



I honestly don't understand where people are pulling all of this optimism from.

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 3:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2014 3:19:18 PM

so should we kill ourselves or what?

10/6/2014 3:21:29 PM

^^ That post is chocked full of fail...but I appreciate the effort.

10/6/2014 3:24:04 PM

Quote :

"There should be a reflecting pool in front of Carter Finley where fans can go to lay down flowers and somberly reflect on that disaster with a moment of silence, with a placard on the wall that reads "Never Again" with the names of all the players who suffered during the year."

I thought this was pretty funny.

But yeah it's way too soon to be on the fire DD train.

10/6/2014 4:13:58 PM

We nearly lost to Georgia Southern and Old Dominion. Old Dominion gained 500 yards of offense. That is who this team is.

10/6/2014 5:20:31 PM

We nearly beat FSU. We score more 1st quarter points on them than any team in the last 10 years. That's who this team is too.

10/6/2014 5:25:03 PM

And we played Clemson last year better than any other team on their schedule that wasn't in the top12. That's also who this team is. (and then got destroyed by Clemson this year, that's also who they are)

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 5:29 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2014 5:29:28 PM

^^ FSU is fools gold garbage and were as much in their own head as anything. don't get me wrong, Jacoby is real good, but this defense is ass trash and we are going to have a real tough second half of the season, sorry to say.

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 5:31 PM. Reason : fsu has developed a complex about ncsu, that much is obvious]

10/6/2014 5:30:38 PM

fools gold garbage, eh?

10/6/2014 5:33:01 PM

yes

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 5:34 PM. Reason : ok state almost beat them, they got into trouble against us -- ND will wax them]

10/6/2014 5:33:28 PM

I vote we keep a running list of all the people acting like little bitches so we can easily identify who to ridicule later.

10/6/2014 5:38:37 PM

i have no problem with being ridiculed for my opinions as the second half of this season progresses

10/6/2014 5:43:56 PM

Wouldn't be the first time some mark-ass-bitches got all up in my shit and crucified me for droppin' knowledge.





*That's what Jesus would sound like if he was gangsta.

10/6/2014 5:47:21 PM

I feel like people forget Jameis hadn't played in 3 weeks either. Had he played consistently they too would have put up 20 points in the first and we would have gotten mounted the entire game. Are we better than last year? Yes. By a lot? Eh, probably by a good bit but let's be fair...how hard is that really? I understand giving him more time but I am unimpressed so far.

10/6/2014 6:55:07 PM

Quote :

"I honestly don't understand where people are pulling all of this optimism from."

+1. I still don't get it. All of his supporters either have just a hunch, or blame our failures on lack of talent or the previous coaching staff (which has already been shown to be a fallacy). What have you actually seen to make you feel optimistic?

For example, with Chuck, you could see our defense was so much more aggressive than they had previously been. With TOB, you could tell that he could manage a game and get us into position to win. This gave me optimism. I am not saying that we should have kept either of these guys, but I think you need to take an honest look at how DD prepares his teams, and how rarely he puts them in a position to be successful.

10/6/2014 7:24:04 PM

DD put us in a horrible position to win that FSU game....

10/6/2014 7:43:35 PM

^^It's not necessarily optimism that you're seeing on all sides - it's patience.

We're willing to see what he can do. That Clemson team is going to destroy everyone the rest of the year, too. You don't build a program in one year and you don't build a program by firing your coach every 2 or 3.

Just chill the fuck out for a couple more seasons and see what happens.

10/6/2014 7:48:44 PM

Quote :

"You don't build a program in one year and you don't build a program by firing your coach every 2 or 3. chill the fuck out"

10/6/2014 7:51:39 PM

so did they give TOB enough time?

10/6/2014 8:05:17 PM

Quote :

"^^It's not necessarily optimism that you're seeing on all sides - it's patience. We're willing to see what he can do. That Clemson team is going to destroy everyone the rest of the year, too. You don't build a program in one year and you don't build a program by firing your coach every 2 or 3. Just chill the fuck out for a couple more seasons and see what happens."

bingo

10/6/2014 8:13:12 PM

Quote :

"so did they give TOB enough time?"

That's a silly comparison.

5 ACC seasons >> 1.25 ACC seasons

10/6/2014 8:14:41 PM

Quote :

"Biggest issue with defense is that the best players are really young - we'll get much better in the next 1-2 seasons."

4 seniors have started at all DLine positions.

People keep talking about the youth percentages....but football is really 5 classes: Freshmen being redshirted, redshirt freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors. So in reality 3/5 classes for most teams are FR/SO.

10/6/2014 9:22:13 PM

Quote :

" "You don't build a program in one year and you don't build a program by firing your coach every 2 or 3."

You also don't build a program by firing a coach who will win 7-9 games a year for one who can't even win a conference game. But that's a moot point now.

No one has yet to give any example of what he has done to make you feel optimistic that he can get the job done. I am all about giving someone time, but shouldn't we have seen something positive?

10/6/2014 9:27:06 PM

You also don't build a program by settling for a coach who will only win you 7-9 games a season forever and can't win away to save his life.

Look at our offense year 1 to year 2. It's improved drastically. The pass has improved, the run has improved, we have some serious potential at the WR positions... Our offense is good, albeit poorly prepared for the Clemson game.

Our defense is worrisome, period. No doubt. I don't think the 4-2-5 is a good defense. The two teams in the ACC who use it seem to have the worst defenses in the ACC, especially against the long bomb pass which is exactly what it's supposed to be built to stop.

You're being selectively blind if you can't find any positive growth from our team since Doeren started as coach.

[Edited on October 6, 2014 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2014 9:31:28 PM

Quote :

"albeit poorly prepared for the Clemson game."

Naw, man. You don't get to brag about the offense and then casually dismiss the most recent game where we got blanked. C'mon, son.

10/6/2014 10:02:38 PM

^yeah, as good as we were in the first qtr against FSU, we were just as dismal in the first quarter against Clemson. But I will agree that our offense is improved from last year, even though we still do a lot of things that make no sense if you are trying to build a program and win conference championships. Such as establishing the run, which will never occur out of the wildcat.

10/6/2014 10:28:37 PM

90% of the time this year the wildcat has gotten us really good yardage. People have extremely selective memories.

10/7/2014 6:51:00 AM

im ok with the wildcat at the college level. Also BC will be the litmus test.

10/7/2014 7:14:02 AM

Quote :

"People have extremely selective memories."

To be fair, it's pretty damn easy to remember our hopes in the FSU game wash down the drain on the back of the wildcat which was getting nothing again and again.

10/7/2014 7:23:57 AM

We scored our second touchdown out of the Wildcat if IIRC.

10/7/2014 8:10:21 AM

The wildcat didn't do much against FSU. But it was fine the first 4 games.

(I didn't see the Clemson game, and have deleted it from the DVR without viewing...I assume it didn't work that game either).

The wildcat, as little as we run it, is fine. It's not gonna be particularly effective against the best defenses (FSU, Clemson) but it has shown this year that it works at times. It's not like we only run the wildcat. Seems like we run it maybe 5-6 times a game? That's not too bad. And it's certainly not like we're attempting to establish the run solely through the wildcat.

Quote :

" Such as establishing the run, which will never occur out of the wildcat."

10/7/2014 8:21:11 AM

Quote :

"You also don't build a program by firing a coach who will win 7-9 games a year for one who can't even win a conference game. "

So you're arguing NC State won't win a conference game this season.

Put your money where your mouth is. I'll take that bet.


oh wow you're always like this huh? message_search.aspx?type=posts§ion=2&searchstring=&username=HCH

[Edited on October 7, 2014 at 9:41 AM. Reason : you're gonna be first on that list]

10/7/2014 9:37:43 AM

yeah, one of those guys/gals who takes pleasure in crying and whining about sports

10/7/2014 9:45:07 AM

Winning 7 games by going 6-6 and winning one of the shittiest bowl games is okay in the first year or two...but not when you're suppose to have the team at its peak with a starting NFL quarterback.

[Edited on October 7, 2014 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

10/7/2014 9:55:18 AM

I still can't believe people (even if it's only a very few vocal ones) are going to bat for TOB. I mean...was he really that good? Jeez.

[Edited on October 7, 2014 at 10:02 AM. Reason : d]

10/7/2014 10:01:45 AM

Quote :

"whiny little bitches"

[Edited on October 7, 2014 at 10:28 AM. Reason : V right on cue!]

10/7/2014 10:14:07 AM

hah you guys think we are going to beat BC huh

10/7/2014 10:23:24 AM

I don't man, it's sports, any given Saturday. Are you certain we're going to lose? Haha.

10/7/2014 10:38:31 AM

People still go to bat for Chuck...and that guy was a joke.

The only guy all State fans seem to universally agree was not right for the program was Herb Sendek...and that's only after Gottfried saved us. After 5 years of Captain Kool-Aid, even letting Herb go was looking like a bad decision.

Hopefully Yow made the right hires with our current coaches.

10/7/2014 10:43:41 AM

Quote :

"Hopefully Yow made the right hires with our current coaches."

Right.

The two things are exclusive....firing TOB and hiring DD. Saying DD was a bad hire or whatever is really premature. Of course, he isn't immune to receive criticism though. But just because you may think DD is bad, that doesn't automatically mean canning TOB was wrong.

Either way...any reasonable fan will tell you that it's too early to pass judgement one way or the other on DD.

10/7/2014 10:53:30 AM

Quote :

"People have extremely selective memories."

this is what drives me fucking crazy about this thread. how many times did we have to go on the road and lose to BC, Maryland, and Wake with superior teams before you realize O'Brien wasn't going to take us anywhere? we were getting beat in year 5 of TOB the same way we were losing games in year 2 and year 3: shitty defense that can't tackle anyone or stop anyone on third and anything. yes we had some good wins, but for every win over fsu and clemson there were 5 wtf losses to worse teams.

10/7/2014 10:57:09 AM