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5/10/2012 9:49:25 AM

okay...no spoilers here

just started A Dance With Dragons

hopefully the HBO series will get there

5/11/2012 11:17:07 PM

I didnt realize that was a female trying to seduce theon until she took her clothes off.

5/11/2012 11:52:08 PM

What else could her motive possibly have been?

5/12/2012 9:38:09 PM

No, I didn't realize it was a female.

I thought it was a male.

5/12/2012 11:05:26 PM

Do you normally get genders confused or lose track of simple plot points?

5/12/2012 11:23:27 PM

^^ how do you not recognize tonks?

5/12/2012 11:56:48 PM

I think the gentleman was attempting to make a joke

5/13/2012 12:16:17 AM

Quote :

"Do you normally get genders confused or lose track of simple plot points?"

Plot points, yes, genders, no.

She looks and sounds male to me, and I didn't really recognize that character.

I normally watch this show while doing other things too

5/13/2012 12:32:15 AM

Quote :

"how do you not recognize tonks?"

5/13/2012 12:56:57 AM

(who/what is a tonks?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZRy2tFh8kQ

[Edited on May 13, 2012 at 1:14 AM. Reason : ]

5/13/2012 1:07:21 AM

I'm going to have to read the second book again, b/c I certainly don't remember the dragons being taken.

5/13/2012 9:02:51 PM

^ eh?

5/13/2012 9:58:59 PM

http://www.ign.com/wikis/game-of-thrones/Season_2_Differences

5/13/2012 10:10:33 PM

^^^holy shit are you dense? nobody fucking cares

5/13/2012 10:12:44 PM

lolll

5/13/2012 10:14:17 PM

so...I don't think I'll be watching any of Season 2.

I saw Season 1, then started reading the books.

The two diverge too much for me to be interested in them.

It would be (almost) akin to watching The Deathly Hallows Part Two and seeing Harry not use The Elder Wand to fix his own wand.

That, btw, is probably the worst error of all book-to-screen edits I have ever seen.

5/13/2012 10:31:35 PM

^ It's still definitely worth watching.

Another good episode. Cannot wait for the awesomeness of the next two, but I dread having to wait another year for the next season afterward

[Edited on May 13, 2012 at 10:37 PM. Reason : ]

5/13/2012 10:37:29 PM

happy mothers day lady stark!

-theon greyjoy

5/13/2012 10:42:08 PM

Possible spoiler...more like I didn't understand


I didn't understand this part about going on about the new king the lanister queen having issues with banging her brother?

is the midget going to bwn his sister?

[Edited on May 13, 2012 at 11:55 PM. Reason : d]

5/13/2012 11:53:51 PM

haha, i don't think he would go along with it.

^ i think it was just them showing that she realizes how out of control Joffrey is and that they can't reel him in. She realizes it's a real problem for them to deal with and was wondering if it is a corrective affliction for her incest.



potentially interesting tidbit i just learned about the guy who plays Theon; he's Lilly Allen's little brother and she has a song about him being lazy and smoking week all of the time.

[Edited on May 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2012 11:56:54 PM

Did they show when theons people caught the kids and burned them? I think I missed that part.

5/14/2012 12:16:36 AM

No they didn't, they found the walnuts that Hodor was cracking, sent the Maester away. Fast forward to the burned bodies.

5/14/2012 12:31:02 AM

anticlimactic ending

5/14/2012 12:35:27 AM

you people really have a tough time separating books from movies/tv

kubricks shining was an amazing movie that was completely different from the book

5/14/2012 12:43:27 AM

^^^^ I don't think they caught them at all. I suspect they just killed and burned two children to make it seem like that was they killed the Stark boys.

5/14/2012 12:58:22 AM

^that was my thought on it. burn them to make them unrecognizable.

the break-out scene was pretty stupid. why not have the kid play dead and get him to help break out? Also, the guard would have to be completely retarded to go into the cell and turn his back to him like that.

didn't really get the whole scene regarding the black Karth (sp?) dude making deals with the sorcerer guy and what that all meant as far as her being able or unable to see her dragons.

5/14/2012 1:30:01 AM

they took her dragons so they could use her to rule the city

5/14/2012 1:46:29 AM

I'm pretty sure those were not the stark kids. I'm betting they are the kids from that farm. The boy that was the best tree climber.

5/14/2012 7:28:49 AM

i'm also thinking that the 2 burned bodies were not the Stark children but rather the kids from the farm they were talking about avoiding. what good it did anyway.

i was slightly confused by the Cersei/Tyrion scene as well. to me, it seemed like she was almost propositioning Tyrion talking about the incest stuff trying to convince him that it was ok and acceptable and that they should do it too. and the look on Tyrion's face i couldn't tell if he was considering it or just so appalled at the thought he didn't know how to react. i would think he would not go for that since he seems to be the most normal and level-headed of the 3 (cersei, tyrion, jamie).

5/14/2012 7:40:32 AM

I think the Tyrion/Cersei scene was to show that they don't know how to be nice to each other. Tyrion wasn't sure what he was supposed to do in a moment where it genuinely looked like he wanted to comfort her.

5/14/2012 9:45:26 AM

And to show to utter sadness to Cersei that she has no one else in the world to actually admit outloud that her son is a monster and that she's fucking her brother. I thought it was an awesome scene for both characters.

5/14/2012 9:55:08 AM

Yeah, Cersei was absolutely not "propositioning" Tyrion in that scene. It was just a moment of vulnerability for Cersei, lamenting certain choices she's made and the fact that she can't control her monster of a son. And I think Tyrion genuinely felt bad for his sister, but he's despised her so much for so long that he had a hard time showing it or really comforting her.

I was a tad confused by the Qarth scene where the rest of the 13 all die. I guess it seems like Xaro and the warlock were just using Dany and her dragons to gain control of the city?

I also think that Theon probably burnt the farm kids to a crisp to make it look like Bran and Rickon. If it was Bran and Rickon up there, Hodor and Osha would also have been burnt alive by Theon.

5/14/2012 11:58:17 AM

Quote :

"I was a tad confused by the Qarth scene where the rest of the 13 all die. I guess it seems like Xaro and the warlock were just using Dany and her dragons to gain control of the city?"

As Xaro explained, he was declaring himself King of Qarth and through an alliance with the Warlocks killing the rest of the 13.

Why Dany's dragons even had to be invovled makes absolutely no sense and may or may not have been in the books.

Quote :

"I also think that Theon probably burnt the farm kids to a crisp to make it look like Bran and Rickon. If it was Bran and Rickon up there, Hodor and Osha would also have been burnt alive by Theon."

Objectively, they went from "we found walnuts" to "here are burnt kids" with no intervening scenes. It's not ambiguous at all whether they captured Bran and Rickon.

[Edited on May 14, 2012 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2012 12:25:31 PM

^^ that's what I got from the Tyrion/Cersei scene. At no point did I think she was trying to justify incest to him to hook up with him. It was good character development for her -- showed that she thinks Joffrey is a little asshole too, and that she does see wrong in what she does with her brother and even wonders if she's being punished for it.

The scene with her and Sansa rounded her out some more as well, and show her less callous side.

And yeah, Tyrion just saw her in this genuine and vulnerable situation, and wanted to comfort her but wasn't quite sure how to do so.. or maybe if he truly wanted to.

5/14/2012 2:29:57 PM

Quote :

"Objectively, they went from "we found walnuts" to "here are burnt kids" with no intervening scenes. It's not ambiguous at all whether they captured Bran and Rickon."

The way it was shot (precisely BECAUSE there were no Theon scenes in between the two you mentioned), it was absolutely meant to make the audience (along with Maester Luwin and the other people of Winterfell) wonder whether that was really Bran and Rickon. Again, I don't think it's them but because they showed a scene where Theon thought he was on hot on the trail of Bran and Rickon by finding the walnuts, followed immediately by a scene with kids the age of Bran and Rickon having been burnt alive, it is absolutely supposed to be ambiguous or a cliffhanger.

Now, again, most reasoning people can put together some clues that that isn't Bran and Rickon--Osha and Hodor almost certainly would've been burnt along with them, the fact that the farm kids were right there, the fact that Theon sent Maester Luwin home so that he couldn't see what actually went down--but the way it was shot, it was definitely designed so that the audience's first reaction is supposed to be, "Holy shit, is that Bran and Rickon?."

Quote :

"Why Dany's dragons even had to be invovled makes absolutely no sense"

That's the part I was really confused about. I'm completely confused as to why they needed Dany or her dragons to use the warlocks' magic to murder 11 of the Thirteen.


[Edited on May 14, 2012 at 6:07 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2012 6:06:22 PM

dragons were involved because...well fuck you steal dragons when you have a chance

now, why they were stolen in the show when they weren't in the book -- probably to give dany a chance to go fucking psycho

5/14/2012 6:14:16 PM

^ I know we're not supposed to talk about the books in here, but fuck it, there are no spoilers involved...as far as I recall, Daxos and Pyat Pree don't murder the Thirteen in the book, either. I don't really get why they've changed that stuff in Dany's plotline. I'm not sure I get the motive for those changes.

5/14/2012 6:28:35 PM

^ because it's different canon and they're allowed to change things if they want. It makes the tv watching experience different than the book reading experience. This thread is about one of those.


You can say that's not a spoiler all you want, but I now know at least one plot line that will be quite a bit different in the book before i read it because of you.

5/14/2012 7:14:44 PM

^^ OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

5/14/2012 7:30:13 PM

TV is a different medium, and so much of the books are heavily reliant upon a narrator, especially the House of the Undying. It would be hard to capture the feel of it from the books on screen, so they did something else. Not to mention that Dany hasn't had much conflict this season, so this is a good opportunity to add it.

She was still very much in danger in the HotU in the books, but it was much more ethereal, if that makes any sense. Maybe this will explain it better:

5/14/2012 7:31:30 PM

sorry, sorry, sorry, couldn't help it that time

5/14/2012 7:51:27 PM

Quote :

"You can say that's not a spoiler all you want, but I now know at least one plot line that will be quite a bit different in the book before i read it because of you."

yeah, that's not a spoiler. How does it spoil anything to know that something is different from a television show that you've watched?

unless you plan on reading the books, and now you know that you can expect something fresh! that's wonderful! more like a HEY, NEW SHIT ALERT

but let me give you a huge SPOILER ALERT for the books -- 75% of the shit in them has already been spoiled for you by the tv show. sorry

5/14/2012 7:57:17 PM

I'm assuming by holding the dragons hostage he'll force Dany to marry him, thus adding legitimacy to his title as king (since she's the exiled queen, blah blah blah). Or that's what I got out of it.

5/14/2012 8:49:17 PM

Quote :

"but let me give you a huge SPOILER ALERT for the books -- 75% of the shit in them has already been spoiled for you by the tv show. sorry "

I'm sorry that you just don't get it. I'm sorry that it's so hard for you to just not talk about the books in this thread --- something a 3rd grader could understand and comply with.

Maybe it would be exciting in some ways to, as you're reading, find out what differs between the book and the tv show. To me, a negated thing, is still a thing. Knowing that something specific doesn't happen may not be quite as spoiling as knowing that it specifically does happen, but it's still something that I would have only known if I had read the books. This is something that I now know, before experiencing it first hand, will be different. In other words, the possibility of me learning that on my own has been.... ruined/destroyed/wiped out/exhausted/hmm, i know there's another word that fits here!

I also choose to watch the show and have 75% of it spoiled as you suggested. However, I would not choose to ask someone to tell me the things that happen in the show that do not happen in the book. Or even if I did, the whole choice thing is fairly important there.


What he said is really not a huge deal. It's just amazing to me that some of you simply can't not talk about the books in this thread given the discussion about it to this point. Just pretend that the books don't exist. If you find yourself typing the word "book", take a second and ask if what you're typing is relevant to the tv show or the book, and if it's relevant to the book at all... just don't post it. --- as you mentioned, a lot of the books will already be spoiled for us, don't spoil what little is left to be experienced blindly.

[Edited on May 14, 2012 at 9:29 PM. Reason : bold]

5/14/2012 9:24:18 PM

Quote :

"I'm assuming by holding the dragons hostage he'll force Dany to marry him, thus adding legitimacy to his title as king (since she's the exiled queen, blah blah blah). Or that's what I got out of it."

I was thinking something along these lines. Having the dragons on his side gives him a lot of power.

5/14/2012 10:15:43 PM

as i've said before

if you want to experience it blindly, read the books now

you WILL get shit spoiled for you, it is an inevitability.

5/14/2012 10:34:22 PM

or you can keep book discussion in the thread made for discussing the books

/message_topic.aspx?topic=613063

5/14/2012 11:10:35 PM

^^ Do you really think the books are so popular and topical that spoilers just can't be avoided? The only place I've encountered spoilers for the books (aside from the tv show, which i choose to watch) is in this thread.

As popular as the books are, they're not being talked about around work water coolers, they're not being talked about at bars, they're not being talked about in lines at the grocery store, they're not being talked about much at all in the grand scheme of things. I don't think I'll have any problems avoiding spoilers (outside of the tv show) as long as people don't post them in this thread --- which is the only thing I'm exposed to that has anything to do with the series.



^^^ and now that I think about it, he'll have all the ships she needs to cross the seas, some military, etc.

[Edited on May 14, 2012 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2012 11:13:35 PM

I was just thinking about this today, but it's been a long time since we've seen GreatJon Umber. You'd think he would be around somewhere in Robb's camp.

Also, I really like the actor they have for Roose Bolton, not so much for Lord Karstark.

5/15/2012 7:20:56 AM